04:15:35 http://jezebel.com/5286179/happy-hump-day 13:55:20 RRSAgent has joined #svg 13:55:20 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-svg-irc 13:55:22 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:55:22 Zakim has joined #svg 13:55:24 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 13:55:24 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 13:55:25 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 13:55:25 Date: 11 June 2009 13:55:33 Chair: Erik 13:55:53 scribeNick: ed 13:56:04 Topic: ACTION-2523 13:56:10 ACTION-2523? 13:56:10 ACTION-2523 -- Cameron McCormack to add wording to Full 1.1 saying that if title is not the first child element that UAs can optionally render it -- due 2009-04-27 -- OPEN 13:56:10 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2523 13:56:31 CM: in the context of loosening the content model of element with child element orderings 13:56:57 ...then I got this action to make it so that the content model allows title anywhere, but that if it's not the first child elm then it doesn't need to render it 13:57:02 ChrisL has joined #svg 13:57:04 ...but I don't like this option 13:57:34 ...I'd rather if you are going to render it then it has to be the first child 13:57:41 rrsagent, here 13:57:41 See http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-svg-irc#T13-57-41 13:57:50 ...either that or make the first title element whereever it is rendered 13:58:09 zakim, remind us in 8 hours to go home 13:58:09 ok, ChrisL 13:58:18 JW: too much overhead with rendering titles that aren't first child 13:59:03 DS: could handle it internally with finding the title during parsing, then link it to the parent element 13:59:26 CM: happy to require it to be the first child 13:59:43 ...in tiny the restriction was loosened to sya that it can be anywhere 13:59:46 DS: i prefer that 14:00:03 CL: it's vague as to what it can do with the title 14:00:10 ...tooltip or whatever 14:00:30 DS: UA:s could optionally ignore the title if it's not the first element 14:00:54 ...I would like ppl to use title, and to tell UAs how to deal with title 14:01:06 CL: should put it as authoring advice then 14:01:17 ...should put it as first child 14:02:04 ...the vague thing caused people to have very short title, beause some UAs do show it as tooltips 14:02:18 (discussion on title and tooltip elements) 14:02:47 DS: xlink:title is sometimes used too 14:03:14 CM: if you put it as a first child you might still not get it as a tooltip 14:03:30 CL: CGM has reliable tooltip behavior 14:05:11 (discussion on adding wikipage for tooltip) 14:05:37 DS: the advice we give for accessibility and tooltips isn't adequate 14:06:07 which is why we were going to add an explicity tooltip element in 1.2F, because that was an area where CGM has functionality that we don't 14:10:29 DS: don't like the feature being optional 14:10:33 this relates to ACTION-2523 14:10:34 ...want to know that I have tooltips 14:11:42 ...have a library that makes js tooltips, but when UAs to native tooltips it overlaps the jstooltip 14:12:04 ...roles have been discussed in this context 14:12:41 (discussion on role=tooltip and ARIA) 14:13:04 CM: probably role is different from what you want 14:13:07 DS: disagree 14:13:22 CL: right, you don't know if it's going to appear or not 14:13:51 but you could use title[role=tooltip] display: none to switch off tooltips 14:13:53 CM: the AT vendors are going to interpret role differently from what you mean 14:14:32 DS: if we make something new and say type="tooltip" authors will use that 14:14:49 ...as far as the author is concerned they're done, but the AT won't know that 14:14:59 ...one more thing the AT has to do 14:15:24 ...even text elements and other things are not accessible in current ATs 14:15:31 ...in svg 14:17:23 quote "Obviously there’s nothing you can do to stop the default behaviour of standards compliant browsers regarding rendering of title attributes, so when leaving your cursor on my method for too long, the default browser behaviour will overlay the generated content CSS effect" 14:17:29 http://www.css3.info/tooltips-with-css3/ 14:17:37 JW: you should be able to disable the default behaviour 14:17:42 ...for tooltips 14:18:22 CL: we should have either made a real tooltip, or not have had this vague language in the spec for how to use title 14:20:23 ....regarding the specific action 14:20:30 ...doesn't add anything 14:21:03 ...there's a small useful bit in the note 14:21:07 ...about the DTD 14:22:38 CM: sometimes I've wanted a rich graphical tooltip, you can do it already, but an easier way to do it 14:23:35 DS: we could add the tooltip element again 14:23:49 ...the role of a tooltip is different from the role of a title 14:30:20 ACTION-2385? 14:30:20 ACTION-2385 -- Anthony Grasso to make an XSLT to change the template of the 1.1 tests to the new one -- due 2008-12-25 -- OPEN 14:30:20 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2385 14:31:38 Dudes, I've finished the XSLT for this action. Just need to put the finishing touches on the scrip to run it all 14:34:05 ChrisL has joined #svg 15:57:24 http://www.oxygenxml.com/ 15:58:30 thanks anthony 15:59:23 close ACTION-2523 15:59:23 ACTION-2523 Add wording to Full 1.1 saying that if title is not the first child element that UAs can optionally render it closed 16:31:23 action: cameron add wording explaining how the dtd is meant to be used 16:31:24 Created ACTION-2614 - Add wording explaining how the dtd is meant to be used [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-06-18]. 19:01:48 RRSAgent has joined #svg 19:01:48 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/11-svg-irc 20:09:55 issue-2210? 20:09:55 ISSUE-2210 -- Define liveness of SVGTransform.matrix -- RAISED 20:09:55 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2210 20:47:38 heycam has joined #svg 21:58:10 ChrisL, you asked to be reminded at this time to go home 22:12:50 Zakim has left #svg