00:16:48 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/0026.html 00:16:49 Title: PF Response: Summary from Janina Sajka on 2009-06-04 (www-archive@w3.org from June 2009) (at lists.w3.org) 00:28:59 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009AprJun/0737.html 00:29:00 Title: Origin enables XSS to escalate to XSRF (was: security issue with XMLHttpRequest API compatibility) from Mark S. Miller on 2009-06-03 (public-webapps@w3.org from April to June 2009) (at lists.w3.org) 00:41:55 planet: How does the low real time typing work in Google Wave? <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/932415/how-does-the-low-real-time-typing-work-in-google-wave> 01:13:33 http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/pinkerton/archives/020035.html 01:13:34 Title: Sucking less, on a budget: Browsers are hard, mmkay? (at weblogs.mozillazine.org) 03:09:26 MikeSmith has joined #html-wg 03:24:40 heycam has joined #html-wg 04:23:22 gavin_ has joined #html-wg 04:56:38 adele has joined #html-wg 04:59:18 adele has joined #html-wg 05:04:21 adele has joined #html-wg 05:20:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009AprJun/0713.html 05:20:47 Title: Re: XBL2 Status? from Arthur Barstow on 2009-06-02 (public-webapps@w3.org from April to June 2009) (at lists.w3.org) 05:59:59 MikeSmith has joined #html-wg 06:02:01 annevk has joined #html-wg 06:04:34 aroben has joined #html-wg 06:31:16 tH has joined #html-wg 07:10:59 heycam has joined #html-wg 07:24:00 dbaron has joined #html-wg 07:31:49 gsnedders has joined #html-wg 07:43:35 planet: The video tag's fatal flaw <11http://www.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/8pooo/the_video_tags_fatal_flaw/> 07:56:42 MikeSmith has joined #html-wg 08:16:52 tlr has joined #html-wg 08:33:47 bugmail: [Bug 6776] Note the XSLT implications of assigning HTML elements into the http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml namespace <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Jun/0037.html> 08:49:55 ROBOd has joined #html-wg 09:04:58 tlr has joined #html-wg 09:06:17 tlr has joined #html-wg 10:58:24 myakura has joined #html-wg 11:33:50 Lachy has joined #html-wg 12:20:05 MikeSmith has joined #html-wg 12:24:34 ed_work has joined #html-wg 12:26:36 jwatt has joined #html-wg 12:42:19 myakura has joined #html-wg 12:53:06 jwatt has joined #html-wg 13:33:55 maddiin has joined #html-wg 13:53:35 billyjackass has joined #html-wg 14:08:26 billyjackass has joined #html-wg 14:17:00 billmason has joined #html-wg 14:17:03 pimpbot, help? 14:17:03 shepazu: Huh? 14:17:09 billmason has left #html-wg 14:21:40 pimpbot: Less useful than skippy the bush kangaroo 14:21:40 jgraham: Huh? 14:21:43 billmason has joined #html-wg 14:32:38 pimpbot used to rock the mike, but unfortunately has now stripped the jeep to fill his pipe 14:32:38 MikeSmith: Huh? 14:33:14 pimpbot, take a bong rip 14:33:14 MikeSmith: Huh? 14:36:09 pimpbot sux. 14:36:09 gsnedders: Huh? 14:36:16 pimpbot: Dude, just accept it. 14:36:16 gsnedders: Huh? 14:36:30 pimpbot: おめでとうございますと言う意味、良く頑張ったと言う意味 14:36:30 gsnedders: Huh? 14:36:33 Damnit. 14:36:39 I thought pimpbot would understand! 14:36:56 Mike is not pimpbot 14:37:06 Dashiva: I know. 14:37:31 living proof that stuff will kill you 14:37:49 dude used to be able to rhyme like Bobby Womack 14:37:49 How can you be living proof... of killing 14:38:04 Life and death are one and the same. 14:39:13 most of our heroes unfortunately live long enough to eventually deeply disappoint us 14:39:45 I think I prefer that to lost potential 14:40:19 I wanted you to die before you disappointed me! 14:40:23 MikeSmith was your hero? 14:40:27 Totally. 14:40:45 I really never want to be your hero. 14:40:58 You can still be "an hero" 14:40:58 jgraham: You aren't heroic enough. 14:41:04 phew 14:41:52 anyway, I'm really, really glad that 99% percent of Web UAs aren't browsers 14:41:53 "If some day we get to meet again" 14:42:14 MikeSmith: I'm relying on you knowing the next line :P 14:42:19 In other unrelated comments, what is the leasy sucky linux pdf reader? 14:42:31 jgraham: acroread? 14:42:35 jgraham: The one that comes with ubuntu 14:42:48 I like evince but I have wasted literally days of my life waiting for the search 14:43:06 acroread is sucky on all platforms 14:43:07 KPDF does nice smooth scrolling to search results 14:43:17 gsnedders: "don't know where, don't know when"? 14:43:45 Evince does "rescan the entire document evry single time you make a search" 14:43:56 "If some day we get to meet again"... we shall smoke a bowl in remembrance of things past? 14:43:56 MikeSmith: FAIL. 14:44:21 MikeSmith: "in a car crash, plane wreck, terrorist attack/or maybe next thursday night" 14:44:46 KPDF has an "Aggressive" setting for memory usage, which makes it use loads of memory but page rendering and searches go faster 14:45:32 Oh KPDF sounds bad. I don't want to futz with memory usage settings, I just want it to not take several minutes to search 200 page documents 14:45:45 (OS X preview gets this right) 14:45:53 jgraham: Use OS X :P 14:46:04 gsnedders: if that turns out to be a line from some crap christian heavy-metal band, I'm going to burn my christian-hard-rockers card once and for all 14:46:11 MikeSmith: CSS. 14:46:26 gsnedders: I can't. And it's really not better than Linux overall anyway 14:46:32 MikeSmith: "This Month, Day 10" 14:47:14 gsnedders: you have passed the test, grasshopper 14:47:41 you have snatched the pebble from my hand 14:48:01 Actually, seeming iTunes has just gone on to U2, I'll listen to that because that means I don't need to change it :P 14:48:11 (And I'm lazy) 14:48:15 jgraham: Even on the default, it takes KPDF about 2 seconds to find a term on page 2084 of the OOXML spec (at least the second time you search - it takes a while to cache stuff the first time) 14:48:25 jgraham: whereas evince seems to take ~20 seconds each time 14:48:46 Philip: That sounds like a sensible improvement 14:48:58 gsnedders: 俺の話を聞け！ 14:50:31 MikeSmith: Sorry, Sir. 14:51:00 gsnedders: tiger and dragon 14:51:09 Which involves pulling all of KDE :( 14:51:46 jgraham: KPDF is just part of kdegraphics 14:51:53 (which also involves pulling all of KDE) 14:51:59 (which should be seen as a great opportunity) 14:52:25 jgraham: yeah, isn't that the really wonderful thing about KDE? 14:52:40 The fact you have to install it before you can use it? 14:52:45 A great oppertunity to have a bunch of libraries for useless, ugly, unusable software that I have no interest in filling up my hard drive? 14:53:00 (you make a 2-line change to once source file, then need to re-build 300MB of KDE whatever9 14:53:13 jgraham: yes 14:53:32 that's the magic for KDE 14:53:34 jgraham: Yes, except that they're useful and pretty (at least with some themes) and usable, and hard disk space is basically free 14:53:44 the only thing worse is Gnome 14:54:07 so make your choice wisely, grasshopper 14:54:13 MikeSmith: I think KDE is all modular nowadays, so you don't have to recompile absolutely everything 14:54:37 though I'm not sure if that's only really in KDE4 14:54:51 jaja, fantástica respuesta 14:55:00 (Gentoo does something fancy so that KDE3 is modular, e.g. it's got a standalone kpdf package and doesn't have to compile everything else) 14:55:02 Argh. It wants me to use F3 for find next. That is basically a deal breaker 14:55:19 KDE4 frightens and confuses me 14:55:28 jgraham: What's so bad about F3? 14:55:38 I'm actually just a caveman. I fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of your scientists. 14:55:58 Philip: It's not ctrl+G 14:56:05 jgraham: I expect you can rebind the keys fairly easily 14:57:42 jgraham: (Is this some KDE application? If so, the KDE control centre has Regional & Accessibility -> Keyboard shortcuts -> Application shortcuts -> "Find next") 14:59:11 Oh OK, I managed to rebind the controls. Now how do I change the theme to be "just look like my GTK theme as much as possible, please" 15:00:33 rubys1 has joined #html-wg 15:01:46 jgraham: Maybe http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/Styles/GtkStyle 15:01:49 Title: Qt Labs - Projects/Styles/GtkStyle (at labs.trolltech.com) 15:02:49 jgraham: (or use http://code.google.com/p/gtk-qt-engine/ for the reverse effect, which you presumably don't want) 15:02:50 Title: gtk-qt-engine - Google Code (at code.google.com) 15:04:20 jgraham: or just accept that different applications will look different, like they do on every other OS 15:04:47 Philip: Yeah but this looks shockingly awful 15:05:06 Ah, if it's ugly rather than just different, then that's a problem :-) 15:05:17 Maybe there is a nicer thee but if it is possible to make it just look the same as everything else that seems like the best solution 15:14:16 dsinger has joined #html-wg 15:17:57 Sigh. Okular has decided to always start in fullscreen mode, forget my reassigned keyboard bindings when I close it down and ignore the theme I set in Qt-Settings 15:18:13 Plus the search is broken 15:18:32 It brings up a dialog when you search just to say "Searching" 15:18:38 You should have installed Kubuntu so it would all work straight out of the box 15:19:02 Then, if it doesn't find anything it brings up a dialog that says "Foo not found" and you have to click OK 15:19:16 Do these people actually use their own software? 15:19:31 Can you search by typing "/stuff" too? 15:19:47 It /cannot/ be this hard to write decent text search 15:20:03 Even in PDF which requires a lot of effort to get to the underlying text 15:20:04 (By "click OK" I assume you mean "press Enter") 15:20:22 Philip: Perform some action which I have no need or desire to do 15:21:40 And now I will never be able to uninstall all the cruft I added to try it :( 15:22:20 Search-as-you-type works in KPDF at least, so I'd assume Okular would have something similar 15:22:42 Philip: It "works" in the sense that it finds the right things 15:22:52 It is just horribly horribly badly designed 15:44:06 Julian has joined #html-wg 15:44:40 DanC has joined #html-wg 15:49:23 action-34 due next week 15:49:23 ACTION-34 Prepare "Web Developer's Guide to HTML5" for publication in some way, as discussed on 2007-11-28 phone conference due date now next week 15:50:45 aroben has joined #html-wg 15:56:30 action-105 due next week 15:56:30 ACTION-105 Should arrange a meeting between chairs of HTML WG and XHTML2 WG to ensure there is a plan for coordination of vocabularies to avoid incompatibilities. due date now next week 15:57:23 dsinger has joined #html-wg 16:00:18 zakim, who is here? 16:01:13 Zakim has joined #html-wg 16:01:18 zakim, who is here? 16:01:18 sorry, dsinger, I don't know what conference this is 16:01:22 On IRC I see dsinger, aroben, DanC, Julian, rubys, billmason, MikeSmith, maddiin, jwatt, myakura, ed_work, Lachy, tlr, ROBOd, gsnedders, dbaron, heycam, tH, gavin_, inimino, hober, 16:01:24 zakim, this is html 16:01:28 ... theanxy, anne, karl, Dashiva, shepazu, gavin, deltab, trackbot, Philip, xover, krijnh, jmb, drry, pimpbot, phenny, takkaria, Shunsuke, Hixie, RRSAgent, sryo, jgraham, hsivonen, 16:01:30 ... Yudai 16:01:32 ok, dsinger; that matches HTML_WG()12:00PM 16:01:49 +DanC 16:02:04 zakim, who is here? 16:02:04 On the phone I see +1.408.996.aaaa, +1.218.340.aabb, DanC 16:02:08 On IRC I see dsinger, aroben, DanC, Julian, rubys, billmason, MikeSmith, maddiin, jwatt, myakura, ed_work, Lachy, tlr, ROBOd, gsnedders, dbaron, heycam, tH, gavin_, inimino, hober, 16:02:13 ... theanxy, anne, karl, Dashiva, shepazu, gavin, deltab, trackbot, Philip, xover, krijnh, jmb, drry, pimpbot, phenny, takkaria, Shunsuke, Hixie, RRSAgent, sryo, jgraham, hsivonen, 16:02:16 zakim, +1.408.996.aaaa is [apple] 16:02:18 ... Yudai 16:02:19 The CSS WG F2F day 2 just ended. So I'll miss this one 16:02:22 +[apple]; got it 16:02:22 zakim, [apple] has dsinger 16:02:26 +dsinger; got it 16:02:28 +Matt_May 16:02:45 +Shepazu 16:02:48 +Sam 16:03:21 +??P19 16:03:50 +Cynthia_Shelly 16:04:43 Zakim, ??P19 is Joe_Williams 16:04:43 +Joe_Williams; got it 16:05:28 trackbot, start meeting 16:05:30 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:05:32 Zakim, this will be HTML 16:05:33 Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference 16:05:33 Date: 04 June 2009 16:05:33 ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started 16:06:37 chair: Sam 16:06:39 -Cynthia_Shelly 16:06:44 zakim, pick a scribe 16:06:44 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sam 16:06:52 zakim, pick a scribe 16:06:52 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [pple] 16:07:23 ChrisWilson has joined #html-wg 16:07:29 One momemt 16:07:31 er, moment 16:07:50 chair: Chris Wilson 16:08:05 +[Microsoft] 16:08:10 zakim, microsoft is me 16:08:10 +ChrisWilson; got it 16:08:17 zakim, who is here? 16:08:17 On the phone I see [apple], +1.218.340.aabb, DanC, Matt_May, Shepazu, Sam, Joe_Williams, ChrisWilson 16:08:19 [apple] has dsinger 16:08:20 On IRC I see ChrisWilson, Zakim, dsinger, aroben, DanC, Julian, rubys, billmason, MikeSmith, maddiin, jwatt, myakura, ed_work, Lachy, tlr, ROBOd, gsnedders, dbaron, heycam, tH, 16:08:24 ... gavin_, inimino, hober, theanxy, anne, karl, Dashiva, shepazu, gavin, deltab, trackbot, Philip, xover, krijnh, jmb, drry, pimpbot, phenny, takkaria, Shunsuke, Hixie, RRSAgent, 16:08:27 ... sryo, jgraham, hsivonen, Yudai 16:08:39 zakim, aabb is LauraCarlson 16:08:39 +LauraCarlson; got it 16:08:56 + +49.251.280.aacc 16:09:06 Chris: apologizes for the late start 16:09:16 zakim, aacc is Julian 16:09:16 +Julian; got it 16:09:17 Zakim, +49.251.280.aacc is me 16:09:17 sorry, Julian, I do not recognize a party named '+49.251.280.aacc' 16:09:18 LeifHS has joined #html-wg 16:09:19 +Cynthia_Shelly 16:09:21 scribe: dsinger 16:09:43 Laura has joined #html-wg 16:09:45 agenda+ review agenda planner 16:10:14 JoeW; wants to know how to make comments on HTML5 16:10:57 Chris: start with an email on the WG list; it depends somewhat on the issue. wording etc. can be on list, anything big liek charter, bring to the chairs' attention 16:11:51 s/liek/like/ 16:12:05 zakim, take up item 1 16:12:05 agendum 1. "review agenda planner" taken up [from ChrisWilson] 16:12:13 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda 16:12:14 Title: Input for Agenda Planning for the HTML Weekly - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org) 16:12:32 action-114? 16:12:32 ACTION-114 -- Cynthia Shelly to report progress on ARIA TF -- due 2009-05-21 -- OPEN 16:12:32 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/114 16:12:33 Title: ACTION-114 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org) 16:12:38 Topic: ISSUE-35 (aria-processing) 16:13:03 (what was that technical problem?) 16:13:11 Cynthia?: ARIA is making progress, expects to bring some matters back to HTML in the next couple of weeks 16:13:26 s/Cynthia?/Cynthia/ 16:13:28 s/Cynthia?/Cynthia/ 16:13:57 Cynthia: implementation is also progressing, more on Windows than the Mac... 16:14:55 Cynthia: ongoing discussions in ARIA on over-riding semantics in HTML, but many don't want to go there. 16:15:09 e.g. radio buttons vs check boxes 16:15:13 action-103? 16:15:13 ACTION-103 -- Julian Reschke to register about: URI scheme -- due 2009-05-21 -- OPEN 16:15:13 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/103 16:15:14 Title: ACTION-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org) 16:15:26 Topic: ISSUE-54 (doctype-legacy-compat) 16:15:37 Julian: discussion on URI-review started, some feedback, and a new draft is being worked on 16:15:55 (I don't remember where the uri-review list is... searching...) 16:16:26 Julian: summarizes what Bjorn said. Nits about fragments, some IRI considerations, dependency on HTML 5 - and we'd like to avoid that 16:16:39 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/uri-review/current/msg00869.html From: Bjoern Hoehrmann 16:16:40 Title: Re: [Uri-review] Request to review about URI scheme (at www.ietf.org) 16:16:41 Julian: which makes circular normative references 16:17:38 Julian: wonders whether there is a similar action on Larry, which maybe should be merged...(into one on Julian) 16:18:19 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/uri-review/current/msg00869.html 16:18:20 Title: Re: [Uri-review] Request to review about URI scheme (at www.ietf.org) 16:18:23 action-99? 16:18:23 ACTION-99 -- Sam Ruby to review @profile -- due 2009-05-21 -- OPEN 16:18:23 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/99 16:18:24 Title: ACTION-99 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org) 16:18:36 Topic: ISSUE-55 (head-profile) 16:18:57 Sam: no-one seems to want to own review of @profile, can we make this action merely 'raised'? 16:19:22 DanC: wonders if we could close it, but Julian would object doing that 16:20:49 someone: wonders if an executive decree can solve it, but no 'executive' is willing to go there 16:20:54 (yes, it makes sense to defer @profile until discussion of extensibility is also wound down.) 16:21:36 let's keep metadata profiles (head/@profile) in HTML for use in GRDDL etc. 16:21:36 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0571.html 16:21:37 Title: let's keep metadata profiles (head/profile) in HTML for use in GRDDL etc. from Dan Connolly on 2007-07-09 (public-html@w3.org from July 2007) (at lists.w3.org) 16:21:48 Sam: we need an owner. The editor has made his opinion known, and we need an owner 16:22:10 ...there has been extensive discussion, but we need the extensibility discussion 16:22:33 ...we also need a resolution the editor is willing to write and can live with 16:23:01 DanC: thinks that the HTML 4 text could (should?) be used 16:23:20 Julian: mostly agrees with DanC, but notes we need to review whether multiple profiles are allowed 16:23:32 (re multiple, it's clear enough to me that HTML 4 allows many. It's subsequent XHTML 1.x drafts that were less clear.) 16:24:17 Chris: is trying to look at extensibility with his colleagues, and so he'll run with this for the moment 16:25:10 Chris: feels that we have most of the text, and given a discussion of extensibility, we may be able to solve it, and merely 'raised' is not good enough 16:26:12 LeifHS has left #html-wg 16:26:24 DanC: notes Chris also owns Decentralized extensibility (41), and Chris agrees the two are related 16:26:39 (hmm... I wonder about changing the issue name from head-profile to microdata. ) 16:26:59 ...some discussion of what uses what and for what purpose 16:27:00 action-121? 16:27:00 ACTION-121 -- Dan Connolly to submit id for URLs in HTML 5 -- due 2009-05-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW 16:27:00 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/121 16:27:01 Title: ACTION-121 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org) 16:27:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009May/0643.html 16:27:32 Title: Updating the IRI spec to include "web addresses" from Larry Masinter on 2009-05-31 (public-html@w3.org from May 2009) (at lists.w3.org) 16:28:08 DanC: there is continuing editorial action here; some material will stay in HTML 5 16:28:54 Julian: we need an I-D to be submitted by Larry, but he's on vacation for two weeks. He's also trying to organize a face to face (IETF) on the IRI spec and possible revision 16:29:30 Julian: but an IRI revision would be (at best) in the autumn. we probably need to define a term and the mapping to IRI in a separate spec. 16:29:34 @dsinger - yes, action-99 was assigned to me 16:29:34 ChrisWilson: Huh? 16:29:53 ...basically Larry's proposal, but in a separate document (not the IRI spec.) 16:30:18 ...any preference on direction, anyone? 16:30:31 ...define "Web Address" and it's mapping to IRI (RFC 3987) 16:30:46 s/it's/its/ 16:31:28 DanC: there was objection to 're-defining URL', and so we preferred a new term ('web address') 16:32:04 ...getting the documents in the right places with the right content, gets us the right reviews by the right people. 16:32:21 ...so an I-D will get review from IRI experts that'll never happen if we leave it in HTML 5 16:33:27 ...reviews that Ian was concerned about malformed URLs (e.g. %%) and how they are handled 16:33:29 Stevef has joined #html-wg 16:33:45 Julian: would prefer to layer on top of the existing spec. over re-defining terms 16:34:03 ...i.e. add a layer of handling malformed addresses etc. 16:34:35 Julian: notes that actually we permit IRIs, so calling them URLs is wrong from the start 16:35:05 Julian: then there is handling non-ascii in the query part, where the IRI handling is unsuitable... 16:35:23 ...so 'web addresses' are close to IRIs but not (alas) identical 16:35:52 (general thanks for the review, and we wait to see what Larry comes up with) 16:35:56 ...unsuitable for documents not encoded in UTF-8... 16:37:01 Julian: volunteers to take on an action, and co-ordinate with DanC and Larry 16:37:15 s/volunteers/graciously volunteers/ 16:37:37 ...in Larry's absence 16:37:46 (discussion of re-assigning actions etc.) 16:37:54 action: Julian coordinate with LMM and DanC to get an Internet Draft that addresses some HTML 5 href issues 16:37:55 Created ACTION-125 - Coordinate with LMM and DanC to get an Internet Draft that addresses some HTML 5 href issues [on Julian Reschke - due 2009-06-11]. 16:38:18 action-125 due 2 July 16:38:18 ACTION-125 Coordinate with LMM and DanC to get an Internet Draft that addresses some HTML 5 href issues due date now 2 July 16:38:21 Julian: notes he'll be out for the next 3 meetings, alas 16:38:22 close ACTION-121 16:38:22 ACTION-121 Submit id for URLs in HTML 5 closed 16:38:33 action-86? 16:38:33 ACTION-86 -- Julian Reschke to review Thomas Broyer's IETF ID to see if we can postpone ISSUE-13 -- due 2009-06-01 -- OPEN 16:38:33 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/86 16:38:34 Title: ACTION-86 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org) 16:39:05 Julian: is communicating with Thomas but requests 4 more weeks 16:39:09 ACTION-86 due 2 July 16:39:09 ACTION-86 Review Thomas Broyer's IETF ID to see if we can postpone ISSUE-13 due date now 2 July 16:39:31 action-111? 16:39:31 ACTION-111 -- Laura Carlson to work on process issues re: summary -- due 2009-06-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW 16:39:31 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/111 16:39:32 Title: ACTION-111 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org) 16:39:47 Topic: ISSUE-32 (table-summary) 16:40:04 Laura: a recommendation was sent yesterday, discussion has started 16:40:06 PF Recommendation: @Summary from Janina Sajka 16:40:06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/0026.html 16:40:07 Title: PF Response: Summary from Janina Sajka on 2009-06-04 (www-archive@w3.org from June 2009) (at lists.w3.org) 16:40:14 Response from editor and ensuing discussion: 16:40:14 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/thread.html#msg173 16:40:15 Title: public-html@w3.org from June 2009: by thread (at lists.w3.org) 16:40:21 (Ian sent said rec.) 16:40:21 The table summary issue seems to be at an impasse. 16:40:25 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0173.html 16:40:26 Title: Re: PF Response: Summary from Ian Hickson on 2009-06-04 (public-html@w3.org from June 2009) (at lists.w3.org) 16:40:28 For reference, the "Mechanism to Summarize a Table" issue is detailed at: 16:40:28 http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE 16:40:32 Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org) 16:40:46 (people read...) 16:41:43 Laura: this has been an issue for maybe two years, and is puzzled as to how to make progress 16:41:55 ...people are reminded of the profile problem 16:41:56 RFC 2119 compatible definition text for HTML 5 has been drafted by HTML WG Members. 16:41:57 http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE/SummarySpecification 16:42:02 Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE/SummarySpecification - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org) 16:42:29 Sam: wants to see the spec. text in context, so it could be (if desired) voted on 16:43:03 DanC: the arguments are not about integrated text, but about summary being harmful 16:43:20 Laura: says Steve wrote the text above 16:44:57 If @summary is not reinstated in HTML5 or if the editor does not come up with an agreeable solution, formal objections will probably be filed. 16:45:30 http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE/SummarySpecification#head-1172663079b5b6cd73b38e71357ad22f8108cc72 16:45:33 Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE/SummarySpecification - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org) 16:45:33 Dave: wonders if the chairs should discuss it with the editor, and see if he agrees discussion is over and we should vote (and he'd accept the result of the vote) 16:45:50 Sam: thinks we should have a very clear text before we vote 16:46:15 gsnedders said: "points out we don't have consensus on a summary attribute" thats the case for lost of stuff in the spec. 16:47:33 Sam: feels that the editor would want such a vote at this point 16:48:30 DanC: wants to know if there has been a response to Ian's contention that caption fills the role? 16:49:01 http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE 16:49:04 Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org) 16:49:45 Laura: volunteers to make whatever improvements to that page are needed to have a clear vote 16:50:33 DanC: agrees with Sam, that Ian will want a vote, and that the onus is on those who feel the wiki is not good enough, to help improve it 16:50:41 Laura, you're right, the version of 2009-06-04 13:14:01 is considerably better than when I last saw it 16:50:57 s/DanC: wants to know/Sam: wants to know/ 16:51:00 s DanC/ChrisWilson 16:51:58 general feeling is to ask the group to get the Wiki page to a clear and un-biased description of the question, with a view to a future vote 16:52:18 Stevef has joined #html-wg 16:52:47 action: Sam to send a call to the WG to update the Wiki page to adequately reflect both (all) viewpoints on summary, in prep. for a vote 16:52:47 Created ACTION-126 - Send a call to the WG to update the Wiki page to adequately reflect both (all) viewpoints on summary, in prep. for a vote [on Sam Ruby - due 2009-06-11]. 16:53:13 action-115? 16:53:14 ACTION-115 -- Michael(tm) Smith to set up WBS for HTML WG participants to attend HTML WG f2f during TPAC 2009 -- due 2009-05-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW 16:53:14 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/115 16:53:15 Title: ACTION-115 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org) 16:53:55 action-123? 16:53:55 ACTION-123 -- Ian Hickson to discuss choice of embedding vcard microdata instead of referencing IETF spec and defining conformance reqs for HTML5 -- due 2009-05-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW 16:53:55 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/123 16:53:56 Title: ACTION-123 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org) 16:54:05 Dave: notes that CSS moved to early in the TPAC, so as not to overlap 16:54:52 adele has joined #html-wg 16:55:31 Julian: describes the open/close/re-open/discussion/links that happened here 16:56:22 Julian: followed up on the mailing list, and asked for a reply, and Ian responded it was deep in the stack and an answer wasn't likely soon 16:57:03 Chris: feels we should make this open rather than pending review, and give Ian time to get it to the top of his stack 16:57:28 Sam: wants to point out to Ian that the mail he referred to isn't enough of a response 16:58:19 Julian: wonders if this all belongs, anyway, as (some of?) the use cases were not agreed to 16:58:57 Chris: re-opened it on Ian and moved the due date out 16:59:15 Julian: would like someone (a chair?) to follow up with Ian 16:59:20 Sam: will do such 16:59:51 -Sam 17:00:17 any other business? 17:00:37 adjourned. 17:00:38 -Cynthia_Shelly 17:00:41 RRSAgent, draft minutes 17:00:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/04-html-wg-minutes.html DanC 17:00:42