14:57:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
14:57:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-egov-irc
14:57:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV
14:57:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_EGOV()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:13 <trackbot> Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
14:57:13 <trackbot> Date: 03 June 2009
15:01:48 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()11:00AM has now started
15:01:56 <Zakim> +[CTIC]
15:03:13 <Zakim> + +1.202.731.aaaa
15:03:20 <josema> zakim, [CTIC] is josema
15:03:21 <Zakim> +josema; got it
15:03:49 <Zakim> - +1.202.731.aaaa
15:04:11 <Zakim> + +1.202.731.aabb
15:06:50 <Zakim> + +0203334aacc
15:07:11 <josema> zakim, aabbis kevin
15:07:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aabbis kevin', josema
15:07:15 <josema> zakim, aabb is kevin
15:07:15 <Zakim> +kevin; got it
15:07:22 <josema> zakim, aacc is john
15:07:22 <Zakim> +john; got it
15:07:26 <josema> zakim, who's here?
15:07:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see josema, kevin, john
15:07:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, trackbot
15:07:31 <john> john has joined #egov
15:13:19 <josema> scribe: joseam
15:13:23 <josema> scribe: josema
15:13:28 <josema> chair: kevin, john
15:16:19 <john> lol!
15:18:09 <josema> topic: "opengov dinner"
15:18:55 <josema> kevin: chat with other government stakeholders on how things are evolving (Adobe, CDT, Sunlight...)
15:19:21 <josema> s/chat/I had a chat
15:20:09 <josema> ...talk on opendata, discussions on business perspective
15:20:43 <josema> ...on what's the long term impact for industry
15:21:35 <josema> ...again on the "how" to move from the generic ideas to the practical stuff
15:22:33 <josema> ...reinforces the points we made on the paper, people read it, found it useful
15:23:11 <josema> john: very interesting stuff, how to move from strategy to implemented systems
15:24:47 <josema> kevin: also discussion about the dialogue, some points Beth made on the blog post recently
15:24:49 <josema> [http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Wrap-Up-of-the-Open-Government-Brainstorming-Transparency/]
15:27:14 <josema> john: one of things one need to do is to engineer processes in the system and get that kind of cultural change
15:27:24 <josema> ...and that's hard to do, means cultural change
15:27:34 <josema> kevin: agree
15:28:00 <josema> ...creating this line of business is hard
15:28:07 <josema> s/line/lines
15:28:25 <josema> ...sometimes people and power located at different agencies
15:30:04 <josema> john: one of the things that interesting me about transparency is how to connect it to public policy outcomes
15:30:14 <josema> ...e.g. better spending of public money
15:30:32 <josema> ...one way of achieving transparency is to put up data on the Web
15:30:43 <josema> ...but then it's the question "so what?"
15:30:52 <josema> ...what's the next part of journey looks like?
15:31:02 <josema> ...and that's hard
15:31:33 <josema> rrsagent, draf minutes
15:31:33 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draf minutes', josema.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:31:38 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:31:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-egov-minutes.html josema
15:32:28 <josema> topic: open data
15:32:45 <josema> ...what datasets? what for? what's the expected final result?
15:32:56 <josema> kevin: great point
15:33:13 <josema> ...challenge is that some people in charge are technologists
15:33:27 <josema> ...difficult form them to understand government business
15:33:32 <josema> john: agree
15:33:52 <josema> ...coming from tech perspective myself
15:34:02 <josema> ...have seen people does not care
15:34:07 <josema> ...there are bigger challenges
15:34:30 <josema> kevin: right, e.g. cloud computing, well, a buzzword
15:34:36 <josema> ...but what's in it for gov?
15:34:42 <josema> ...would like to hear more of that
15:35:06 <josema> john: someone could say it reduces total cost of ownership and a number of other things
15:35:24 <josema> ...in terms of OGD reason is because improves some public policy outcomes
15:35:33 <josema> ...totally different type of thinking
15:35:39 <josema> ...not about lowering costs
15:37:22 <josema> john: we tried to highlight some of this in the Note
15:37:54 <josema> kevin: I'm glad we did not go very technical there
15:38:08 <josema> topic: re-chartering
15:38:34 <josema> kevin: working on a draft charter based on previous discussion with Comm and you
15:39:05 <josema> ...need to state goals clearly, e.g. need funding
15:39:45 <john> its ok for me
15:39:58 <Zakim> -josema
15:40:01 <john> had trouble earlier in the call
15:40:26 <Zakim> +josema
15:41:57 <josema> ...we might need something about protoyping
15:42:23 <josema> ...jose and I discussed a bit about this, and thought of 3 stages
15:42:37 <josema> ...no money: some smaller thing
15:42:42 <josema> ...money: a bigger one
15:42:52 <josema> john: right, need a consistent plan
15:43:00 <josema> s/need/we need
15:46:05 <josema> [kevin, tim likely to meet next week]
15:48:08 <josema> [some discussion on whether we should have 3 TFs: OGD, Interop, Web Design + Development]
15:48:25 <josema> john: I like OGD and WDD, a bit worried about interop
15:48:52 <josema> ...interop is easy to say, difficult to define, *big* issue
15:49:01 <josema> ...lots of stuff in there
15:51:42 <josema> josema: interop from different POVs
15:52:00 <josema> ...talked in the past much about front-end, big issue on its own
15:52:09 <josema> ...back-end *huge*
15:52:35 <josema> kevin: we could focus on the things they have to deliver
15:52:44 <josema> ...e.g. the data.gov kind of thing
15:53:44 <josema> john: I mostly care about OGD, as you know
15:53:51 <josema> jose: me mostly
15:54:07 <josema> ...let's try a different approach, what would be the deliverables?
15:54:10 <john> for me, ogd design patterns - likewise, why not web design patterns?
15:54:25 <josema> I very much like that!
15:55:13 <john> john has joined #egov
15:55:18 <josema> kevin: not big deliverable, small docs, maybe kind of EricP W3C Tech Survey thing
15:57:46 <josema> [maybe better two than three]
15:58:42 <john> yes
15:58:59 <josema> finally got it! :)
15:59:18 <josema> [we could split interop into two, some of it goes to TF1, some to TF3, then no TF2]
16:02:48 <josema> [kevin to draft charter with two TFs in mind]
16:04:56 <josema> [ADJOURNED]
16:05:24 <Zakim> -josema
16:05:25 <Zakim> -kevin
16:05:28 <Zakim> -john
16:05:30 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()11:00AM has ended
16:05:34 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.202.731.aaaa, josema, +1.202.731.aabb, +0203334aacc, kevin, john
16:05:36 <josema> zakim, list attendees
16:05:36 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I don't know what conference this is
16:05:46 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/03-egov-minutes.html josema
16:35:36 <josema> rrsagent, bye
16:35:37 <RRSAgent> I see no action items