14:33:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:33:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-rif-irc
14:33:16 <csma> rrsagent, make logs public
14:33:22 <csma> rrsagent, make minutes
14:33:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-rif-minutes.html csma
14:33:47 <csma> Meeting: RIF telecon 2 June 2009
14:33:53 <csma> Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
14:34:35 <csma> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009Jun/0003.html
14:35:22 <csma> Regrets: LeoraMorgenstern, JosDeBruijn
14:36:41 <csma> csma has changed the topic to: #rif RIF telecon 2 June, agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009Jun/0003.html
14:36:57 <csma> agendum+ Admin
14:37:20 <csma> agendum+ liaisons
14:37:42 <csma> agendum+ Action review
14:37:51 <csma> agendum+ Last call publications
14:38:58 <csma> agendum+ rdf:PlainLiteral
14:39:24 <csma> agendum+ WG future and schedule
14:39:32 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
14:39:37 <csma> agendum+ Test cases
14:39:45 <csma> agendum+ AOB
14:39:54 <ChrisW> you've got it?
14:39:54 <csma> Hi, Chris
14:40:02 <csma> Yep, should be done
14:40:12 <csma> I moved rdf:PlainLiteral up the agenda
14:40:22 <csma> after our LC discussions
14:42:14 <ChrisW> k
14:59:38 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:59:40 <Hassan> Hassan has joined #rif
15:00:24 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
15:00:58 <ChrisW> zakim, this is rif
15:00:58 <Zakim> ChrisW, this was already SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:00:59 <Zakim> ok, ChrisW; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:01:05 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
15:01:15 <ChrisW> zakim, whats the problem?
15:01:15 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, ChrisW.
15:01:30 <StellaMitchell> StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:01:44 <ChrisW> zakim, leave
15:01:44 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rif
15:01:51 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rif
15:01:55 <ChrisW> zakim, this is rif
15:01:55 <Zakim> ok, ChrisW; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:02:04 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
15:02:16 <Harold> hi
15:02:44 <Hassan> Hassan has joined #rif
15:02:49 <csma> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
15:02:57 <cke> cke has joined #RIF
15:03:54 <csma> zakim, list agenda
15:03:54 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:04:28 <csma> agendum+ Admin
15:04:44 <csma> agendum+ liaisons
15:05:01 <csma> agendum+ Action review
15:05:06 <csma> agendum+ Last call publications
15:05:13 <csma> agendum+ rdf:PlainLiteral
15:05:19 <csma> agendum+ WG future and schedule
15:05:31 <csma> agendum+ Test cases
15:05:38 <csma> agendum+ AOB
15:06:04 <sandro> I am here, on the call.
15:06:12 <csma> I am on th ephone
15:06:15 <Harold>  I am here, on the call.
15:06:29 <cke> I'm here, on the call. I hear you
15:06:45 <ChrisW> Attendees: ChrisW, csma, cke, Harold, Sandro, Stella, Hassan, 
15:07:15 <AdrianP> AdrianP has joined #rif
15:08:21 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:08:42 <csma> Scribe: Gary Hallmark
15:08:51 <Gary_Hallmark> Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
15:09:06 <csma> scribenick: Gary
15:09:15 <ChrisW> Attendees: ChrisW, csma, cke, Harold, Sandro, Stella, Hassan, Gary, Axel, Adrian
15:09:40 <csma> next item
15:10:13 <Gary> csma: no minutes from last telecon?
15:10:26 <Gary> chris: no not there
15:11:00 <csma> next item
15:12:36 <csma> next item
15:12:46 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:14:32 <ChrisW> Attendees: ChrisW, csma, cke, Harold, Sandro, Stella, Hassan, Gary, Axel, Adrian, Michael
15:14:43 <ChrisW> close action-832
15:14:43 <trackbot> ACTION-832 Update wording in intro & abstract to use "SHOULD" closed
15:15:58 <ChrisW> close action-826
15:15:58 <trackbot> ACTION-826 Add, if possible, an operational definition of safety closed
15:16:16 <ChrisW> close action-825
15:16:16 <trackbot> ACTION-825 Clarify in PRD that safeness is required to guarantee that constraint solving is not needed closed
15:19:06 <ChrisW> close action-772
15:19:06 <trackbot> ACTION-772 Review swc closed
15:20:13 <StellaMitchell> done
15:20:17 <ChrisW> close action-708
15:20:17 <trackbot> ACTION-708 Add import rejection test category to test cases and add combination constant equivalence test case closed
15:20:36 <Hassan> continued ...
15:20:45 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:21:48 <AdrianP> not sure if it was reviewed as part of the Core reviews
15:21:52 <ChrisW> close action-439, no one from Aberdeen participates anymore
15:21:58 <ChrisW> close action-439
15:21:58 <trackbot> ACTION-439 Post test cases fir RIF closed
15:22:04 <csma> next item
15:23:53 <Michael_Kifer> Michael_Kifer has joined #rif
15:24:01 <Gary> sandro: rdf:plainLiteral (was rdf:text) ready to publish June 11 (syncing with OWL)
15:24:01 <sandro> expecting actual publication date to be June 11.
15:24:30 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:25:16 <Gary> csma: need to review Adrian's change to mathematical English
15:25:58 <AdrianP> added ground lists to http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Core#Terms_of_RIF-Core
15:26:15 <Gary> chris: keep subscripts in <tt> for easier to read ones (1)
15:27:14 <Gary> csma: close or review?
15:27:50 <Gary> chris: lists can contain function terms?
15:27:58 <Gary> csma: yes
15:28:11 <Gary> ... provided no variables of course
15:28:50 <ChrisW> close action-803
15:28:51 <trackbot> ACTION-803 Update mathematic syntax for Core to reflect restricted lists closed
15:30:01 <Gary> axel: will complete BLD and SWC actions today
15:31:58 <Zakim> irc bot will restart shortly; reinvite a minute or two after departure
15:32:07 <Gary> ... small changes to do in DTB for rdf:text
15:32:26 <sandro> Axel, the mail from Alan I'm talking about is: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-text/2009AprJun/0267.html
15:35:17 <Gary> we will Jos' DTB actions open
15:35:28 <Gary> s/will/will leave
15:35:31 <sandro> PROPOSED: the formal semantics of list operations, ACTION-814, can wait until after Last Call for DTB.
15:35:32 <AxelPolleres_> AxelPolleres_ has joined #rif
15:35:38 <sandro> +1
15:35:56 <ChrisW> We will make the change as editorial by CR
15:35:58 <ChrisW> +1
15:36:01 <Harold> +1
15:36:21 <Gary> +1
15:36:23 <AdrianP> +1
15:36:30 <DaveReynolds> +1
15:36:35 <StellaMitchell> +1
15:36:37 <AxelPolleres_> abstain, would feel better with the changes in , but can't commit to do it
15:36:46 <sandro> RESOLVED: the formal semantics of list operations, ACTION-814, can wait until after Last Call for DTB.
15:37:13 <Gary> chris: DTB is waiting on append and rdf:plainLiteral
15:37:39 <Gary> ...but not waiting for formal semantics of list ops
15:37:52 <csma> action: axel to do the name changes in DTB and rdf:PlainLiteral
15:37:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-834 - Do the name changes in DTB and rdf:PlainLiteral [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-09].
15:39:58 <Gary> csma: PRD contingent on Chris' review of equivalence of semantics of conditions
15:40:21 <Gary> ...and Gary's review of safeness
15:42:53 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rif
15:42:56 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
15:42:56 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is
15:42:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see AxelPolleres, DaveReynolds, Michael_Kifer, Gary, AdrianP, cke, Hassan, StellaMitchell, ChrisW, RRSAgent, csma, sandro, MoZ, trackbot, Harold, hak
15:43:04 <sandro> zakim, this is rif
15:43:04 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:43:06 <Gary> ...Gary wonders why PRD's safeness definition is completely different from Core
15:43:06 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
15:43:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], [IBM], Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ??P11, [NRCC], Gues, Stella_Mitchell, Sandro, +1.503.533.aaaa, +3539149aabb, Michael_Kifer, ??P12
15:43:15 <ChrisW> zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:43:15 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
15:43:37 <Zakim> with apologies -- another irc bot restart needed to recover a bridge connection
15:44:32 <Gary> csma: SWC status - for now, remove the proofs
15:44:57 <Gary> chris: SWC uses outdated defn of multistructures
15:46:02 <Gary> axel: can make some changes
15:46:16 <Gary> chris: will review Axel's SWC changes
15:46:58 <Gary> chris: happy w/ Michael's FLD edits
15:47:40 <Gary> chris: Core and BLD are ready to publish; others await actions
15:49:46 <AxelPolleres> q+
15:50:11 <csma> ack axel
15:50:25 <Gary> sandro: sparql and OWL now agree on syntax and semantics of rdf:plainLiteral
15:51:24 <Gary> ... oddly, rdf:plainLiteral doesn't appear in RDF graphs
15:52:42 <Gary> ... should the spec go to CR, or 2nd LC?
15:53:05 <Gary> chris: Axel needs to review
15:54:49 <Gary> csma: this doesn't affect RIF, so can't we make a resolution (for RIF)?
15:56:59 <Gary> sandro: OWL and sparql are reviewing the semweb compatibility aspects; we don't need to worry about it
15:57:23 <Gary> ... they seem to be doing the right things
15:57:47 <sandro> PROPOSED: We approve rdf:PlainLiteral (formerly rdf:text) as ready for Candidate Recommendation (or second Last Call, if others block it from being CR), pending completion of pending actions.
15:58:00 <sandro> PROPOSED: We approve rdf:PlainLiteral (formerly rdf:text) as ready for Candidate Recommendation (or second Last Call, if others block it from being CR), pending completion of pending actions and Axel's review.
15:59:21 <sandro> action-834?
15:59:21 <trackbot> ACTION-834 -- Axel Polleres to do the name changes in DTB and rdf:PlainLiteral -- due 2009-06-09 -- OPEN
15:59:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/834
16:01:06 <ChrisW> action: axel to review rdf:text this week
16:01:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-835 - Review rdf:text this week [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-09].
16:02:23 <ChrisW> action: axel to address AlanR's comments 
16:02:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-836 - Address AlanR's comments  [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-09].
16:02:30 <sandro> that's http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-text/2009AprJun/0267.html
16:02:31 <csma> PROPOSED: We approve rdf:PlainLiteral (formerly rdf:text) as ready for Candidate Recommendation (or second Last Call, if others block it from being CR), pending completion of action 834, 835 and 836.
16:02:46 <ChrisW> +1
16:02:51 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
16:02:55 <DaveReynolds> 0 [Don't object, think current position is probably best that can be achieved]
16:03:07 <Harold> +1
16:03:10 <Gary> +1
16:03:16 <Michael_Kifer> +1
16:03:22 <AdrianP> +1
16:03:26 <AxelPolleres> +1
16:04:15 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/Member/ACList still lists CSMA.
16:04:48 <csma> RESOLVED:  We approve rdf:PlainLiteral (formerly rdf:text) as ready for Candidate Recommendation (or second Last Call, if others block it from being CR), pending completion of action 834, 835 and 836.
16:06:00 <Gary> csma: RIF needs  FAQ
16:06:56 <Gary> ... all please submit some Qs
16:07:05 <Harold> >>What does "RIF" stand for, literally?<<
16:08:08 <csma> action: sandro to start an FAQ wiki
16:08:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-837 - Start an FAQ wiki [on Sandro Hawke - due 2009-06-09].
16:08:12 <sandro> "literally", Harold?
16:09:40 <Gary> sandro: will check pubs fr broken inks, etc. Please fix problems promptly!
16:09:53 <Gary> s/fr/for
16:10:02 <Gary> s/inks/links
16:12:16 <ChanghaiKe> ChanghaiKe has joined #RIF
16:12:20 <Gary> sandro: RIF extended until end of Nov 2009
16:14:01 <sandro> that's NOT what I said Gary.   I said I expected it would be, but such things are announced to the AC first, and this has not been announced.
16:14:08 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-04-17#future_of_the_WG
16:14:08 <Harold> Sandro, what about another (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU) recursive acronym: "RIF's In Flux"
16:14:42 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Extension_Request_2009
16:14:46 <sandro> Harold, is there some problem with "Rule Interchange Format"?   That's what I've typed about 1000 times.
16:15:20 <ChrisW> I think Harold is being facetious
16:15:43 <ChrisW> ...as well as pointing out a legitimate faq
16:15:47 <ChanghaiKe> Christian, the network here is extremely slow
16:16:14 <Gary> s/extended/extension asked for/
16:16:38 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-04-17
16:18:02 <Gary> csma: we plan 4 week last call comment deadline
16:18:29 <sandro> chris: July 10 as deadline for comments.
16:19:24 <sandro> chris: CR decision on July 31
16:20:34 <Gary> chris: (proposal) meet June 9, then every other week
16:21:13 <Gary> ... meet = RIF telecon
16:21:19 <sandro> chris: (4 weeks last call period)
16:22:41 <Gary> csma: if REC in Nov, when do we need implementations?
16:23:11 <Gary> sandro: transition from LC to CR may be overly optimistic
16:23:30 <Gary> ... at least 5 weeks
16:24:04 <sandro> csma: we need implementations done by the end of September.
16:24:13 <Gary> csma: implementors should start now (last call)
16:24:26 <Gary> sandro: implement what?
16:24:49 <Gary> ... e.g. all the different entailments, etc
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16:27:06 <ChrisW> Attendees: ChrisW, csma, cke, Harold, Sandro, Stella, Hassan, Gary, Axel, Adrian, Michael
16:27:21 <DaveReynolds> Dave
16:27:28 <ChrisW> Attendees: ChrisW, csma, cke, Harold, Sandro, Stella, Hassan, Gary, Axel, Adrian, Michael, Dave
16:27:52 <csma> rrsagent, make minutes
16:27:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-rif-minutes.html csma
16:28:06 <AxelPolleres> Sandro...( maybe also dave?) can you stay on the phgone for some question on the recent discussions on rdf:text?
16:28:37 <AxelPolleres> too late to catch dave... :-/
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