IRC log of rif on 2009-06-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:33:06 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:33:06 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-rif-irc
14:33:16 [csma]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:33:22 [csma]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:33:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-rif-minutes.html csma
14:33:47 [csma]
Meeting: RIF telecon 2 June 2009
14:33:53 [csma]
Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
14:34:35 [csma]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009Jun/0003.html
14:35:22 [csma]
Regrets: LeoraMorgenstern, JosDeBruijn
14:36:41 [csma]
csma has changed the topic to: #rif RIF telecon 2 June, agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009Jun/0003.html
14:36:57 [csma]
agendum+ Admin
14:37:20 [csma]
agendum+ liaisons
14:37:42 [csma]
agendum+ Action review
14:37:51 [csma]
agendum+ Last call publications
14:38:58 [csma]
agendum+ rdf:PlainLiteral
14:39:24 [csma]
agendum+ WG future and schedule
14:39:32 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #rif
14:39:37 [csma]
agendum+ Test cases
14:39:45 [csma]
agendum+ AOB
14:39:54 [ChrisW]
you've got it?
14:39:54 [csma]
Hi, Chris
14:40:02 [csma]
Yep, should be done
14:40:12 [csma]
I moved rdf:PlainLiteral up the agenda
14:40:22 [csma]
after our LC discussions
14:42:14 [ChrisW]
k
14:59:38 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:59:40 [Hassan]
Hassan has joined #rif
15:00:24 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:00:58 [ChrisW]
zakim, this is rif
15:00:58 [Zakim]
ChrisW, this was already SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:00:59 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:01:05 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
15:01:15 [ChrisW]
zakim, whats the problem?
15:01:15 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, ChrisW.
15:01:30 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:01:44 [ChrisW]
zakim, leave
15:01:44 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rif
15:01:51 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rif
15:01:55 [ChrisW]
zakim, this is rif
15:01:55 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:02:04 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
15:02:16 [Harold]
hi
15:02:44 [Hassan]
Hassan has joined #rif
15:02:49 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
15:02:57 [cke]
cke has joined #RIF
15:03:54 [csma]
zakim, list agenda
15:03:54 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
15:04:28 [csma]
agendum+ Admin
15:04:44 [csma]
agendum+ liaisons
15:05:01 [csma]
agendum+ Action review
15:05:06 [csma]
agendum+ Last call publications
15:05:13 [csma]
agendum+ rdf:PlainLiteral
15:05:19 [csma]
agendum+ WG future and schedule
15:05:31 [csma]
agendum+ Test cases
15:05:38 [csma]
agendum+ AOB
15:06:04 [sandro]
I am here, on the call.
15:06:12 [csma]
I am on th ephone
15:06:15 [Harold]
I am here, on the call.
15:06:29 [cke]
I'm here, on the call. I hear you
15:06:45 [ChrisW]
Attendees: ChrisW, csma, cke, Harold, Sandro, Stella, Hassan,
15:07:15 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
15:08:21 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:08:42 [csma]
Scribe: Gary Hallmark
15:08:51 [Gary_Hallmark]
Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
15:09:06 [csma]
scribenick: Gary
15:09:15 [ChrisW]
Attendees: ChrisW, csma, cke, Harold, Sandro, Stella, Hassan, Gary, Axel, Adrian
15:09:40 [csma]
next item
15:10:13 [Gary]
csma: no minutes from last telecon?
15:10:26 [Gary]
chris: no not there
15:11:00 [csma]
next item
15:12:36 [csma]
next item
15:12:46 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:14:32 [ChrisW]
Attendees: ChrisW, csma, cke, Harold, Sandro, Stella, Hassan, Gary, Axel, Adrian, Michael
15:14:43 [ChrisW]
close action-832
15:14:43 [trackbot]
ACTION-832 Update wording in intro & abstract to use "SHOULD" closed
15:15:58 [ChrisW]
close action-826
15:15:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-826 Add, if possible, an operational definition of safety closed
15:16:16 [ChrisW]
close action-825
15:16:16 [trackbot]
ACTION-825 Clarify in PRD that safeness is required to guarantee that constraint solving is not needed closed
15:19:06 [ChrisW]
close action-772
15:19:06 [trackbot]
ACTION-772 Review swc closed
15:20:13 [StellaMitchell]
done
15:20:17 [ChrisW]
close action-708
15:20:17 [trackbot]
ACTION-708 Add import rejection test category to test cases and add combination constant equivalence test case closed
15:20:36 [Hassan]
continued ...
15:20:45 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:21:48 [AdrianP]
not sure if it was reviewed as part of the Core reviews
15:21:52 [ChrisW]
close action-439, no one from Aberdeen participates anymore
15:21:58 [ChrisW]
close action-439
15:21:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-439 Post test cases fir RIF closed
15:22:04 [csma]
next item
15:23:53 [Michael_Kifer]
Michael_Kifer has joined #rif
15:24:01 [Gary]
sandro: rdf:plainLiteral (was rdf:text) ready to publish June 11 (syncing with OWL)
15:24:01 [sandro]
expecting actual publication date to be June 11.
15:24:30 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:25:16 [Gary]
csma: need to review Adrian's change to mathematical English
15:25:58 [AdrianP]
added ground lists to http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Core#Terms_of_RIF-Core
15:26:15 [Gary]
chris: keep subscripts in <tt> for easier to read ones (1)
15:27:14 [Gary]
csma: close or review?
15:27:50 [Gary]
chris: lists can contain function terms?
15:27:58 [Gary]
csma: yes
15:28:11 [Gary]
... provided no variables of course
15:28:50 [ChrisW]
close action-803
15:28:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-803 Update mathematic syntax for Core to reflect restricted lists closed
15:30:01 [Gary]
axel: will complete BLD and SWC actions today
15:31:58 [Zakim]
irc bot will restart shortly; reinvite a minute or two after departure
15:32:07 [Gary]
... small changes to do in DTB for rdf:text
15:32:26 [sandro]
Axel, the mail from Alan I'm talking about is: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-text/2009AprJun/0267.html
15:35:17 [Gary]
we will Jos' DTB actions open
15:35:28 [Gary]
s/will/will leave
15:35:31 [sandro]
PROPOSED: the formal semantics of list operations, ACTION-814, can wait until after Last Call for DTB.
15:35:32 [AxelPolleres_]
AxelPolleres_ has joined #rif
15:35:38 [sandro]
+1
15:35:56 [ChrisW]
We will make the change as editorial by CR
15:35:58 [ChrisW]
+1
15:36:01 [Harold]
+1
15:36:21 [Gary]
+1
15:36:23 [AdrianP]
+1
15:36:30 [DaveReynolds]
+1
15:36:35 [StellaMitchell]
+1
15:36:37 [AxelPolleres_]
abstain, would feel better with the changes in , but can't commit to do it
15:36:46 [sandro]
RESOLVED: the formal semantics of list operations, ACTION-814, can wait until after Last Call for DTB.
15:37:13 [Gary]
chris: DTB is waiting on append and rdf:plainLiteral
15:37:39 [Gary]
...but not waiting for formal semantics of list ops
15:37:52 [csma]
action: axel to do the name changes in DTB and rdf:PlainLiteral
15:37:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-834 - Do the name changes in DTB and rdf:PlainLiteral [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-09].
15:39:58 [Gary]
csma: PRD contingent on Chris' review of equivalence of semantics of conditions
15:40:21 [Gary]
...and Gary's review of safeness
15:42:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rif
15:42:56 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:42:56 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is
15:42:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AxelPolleres, DaveReynolds, Michael_Kifer, Gary, AdrianP, cke, Hassan, StellaMitchell, ChrisW, RRSAgent, csma, sandro, MoZ, trackbot, Harold, hak
15:43:04 [sandro]
zakim, this is rif
15:43:04 [Zakim]
ok, sandro; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:43:06 [Gary]
...Gary wonders why PRD's safeness definition is completely different from Core
15:43:06 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:43:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [IPcaller], [IBM], Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ??P11, [NRCC], Gues, Stella_Mitchell, Sandro, +1.503.533.aaaa, +3539149aabb, Michael_Kifer, ??P12
15:43:15 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:43:15 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
15:43:37 [Zakim]
with apologies -- another irc bot restart needed to recover a bridge connection
15:44:32 [Gary]
csma: SWC status - for now, remove the proofs
15:44:57 [Gary]
chris: SWC uses outdated defn of multistructures
15:46:02 [Gary]
axel: can make some changes
15:46:16 [Gary]
chris: will review Axel's SWC changes
15:46:58 [Gary]
chris: happy w/ Michael's FLD edits
15:47:40 [Gary]
chris: Core and BLD are ready to publish; others await actions
15:49:46 [AxelPolleres]
q+
15:50:11 [csma]
ack axel
15:50:25 [Gary]
sandro: sparql and OWL now agree on syntax and semantics of rdf:plainLiteral
15:51:24 [Gary]
... oddly, rdf:plainLiteral doesn't appear in RDF graphs
15:52:42 [Gary]
... should the spec go to CR, or 2nd LC?
15:53:05 [Gary]
chris: Axel needs to review
15:54:49 [Gary]
csma: this doesn't affect RIF, so can't we make a resolution (for RIF)?
15:56:59 [Gary]
sandro: OWL and sparql are reviewing the semweb compatibility aspects; we don't need to worry about it
15:57:23 [Gary]
... they seem to be doing the right things
15:57:47 [sandro]
PROPOSED: We approve rdf:PlainLiteral (formerly rdf:text) as ready for Candidate Recommendation (or second Last Call, if others block it from being CR), pending completion of pending actions.
15:58:00 [sandro]
PROPOSED: We approve rdf:PlainLiteral (formerly rdf:text) as ready for Candidate Recommendation (or second Last Call, if others block it from being CR), pending completion of pending actions and Axel's review.
15:59:21 [sandro]
action-834?
15:59:21 [trackbot]
ACTION-834 -- Axel Polleres to do the name changes in DTB and rdf:PlainLiteral -- due 2009-06-09 -- OPEN
15:59:21 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/834
16:01:06 [ChrisW]
action: axel to review rdf:text this week
16:01:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-835 - Review rdf:text this week [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-09].
16:02:23 [ChrisW]
action: axel to address AlanR's comments
16:02:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-836 - Address AlanR's comments [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-09].
16:02:30 [sandro]
that's http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-text/2009AprJun/0267.html
16:02:31 [csma]
PROPOSED: We approve rdf:PlainLiteral (formerly rdf:text) as ready for Candidate Recommendation (or second Last Call, if others block it from being CR), pending completion of action 834, 835 and 836.
16:02:46 [ChrisW]
+1
16:02:51 [sandro]
+1 (W3C)
16:02:55 [DaveReynolds]
0 [Don't object, think current position is probably best that can be achieved]
16:03:07 [Harold]
+1
16:03:10 [Gary]
+1
16:03:16 [Michael_Kifer]
+1
16:03:22 [AdrianP]
+1
16:03:26 [AxelPolleres]
+1
16:04:15 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/Member/ACList still lists CSMA.
16:04:48 [csma]
RESOLVED: We approve rdf:PlainLiteral (formerly rdf:text) as ready for Candidate Recommendation (or second Last Call, if others block it from being CR), pending completion of action 834, 835 and 836.
16:06:00 [Gary]
csma: RIF needs FAQ
16:06:56 [Gary]
... all please submit some Qs
16:07:05 [Harold]
>>What does "RIF" stand for, literally?<<
16:08:08 [csma]
action: sandro to start an FAQ wiki
16:08:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-837 - Start an FAQ wiki [on Sandro Hawke - due 2009-06-09].
16:08:12 [sandro]
"literally", Harold?
16:09:40 [Gary]
sandro: will check pubs fr broken inks, etc. Please fix problems promptly!
16:09:53 [Gary]
s/fr/for
16:10:02 [Gary]
s/inks/links
16:12:16 [ChanghaiKe]
ChanghaiKe has joined #RIF
16:12:20 [Gary]
sandro: RIF extended until end of Nov 2009
16:14:01 [sandro]
that's NOT what I said Gary. I said I expected it would be, but such things are announced to the AC first, and this has not been announced.
16:14:08 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-04-17#future_of_the_WG
16:14:08 [Harold]
Sandro, what about another (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU) recursive acronym: "RIF's In Flux"
16:14:42 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Extension_Request_2009
16:14:46 [sandro]
Harold, is there some problem with "Rule Interchange Format"? That's what I've typed about 1000 times.
16:15:20 [ChrisW]
I think Harold is being facetious
16:15:43 [ChrisW]
...as well as pointing out a legitimate faq
16:15:47 [ChanghaiKe]
Christian, the network here is extremely slow
16:16:14 [Gary]
s/extended/extension asked for/
16:16:38 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-04-17
16:18:02 [Gary]
csma: we plan 4 week last call comment deadline
16:18:29 [sandro]
chris: July 10 as deadline for comments.
16:19:24 [sandro]
chris: CR decision on July 31
16:20:34 [Gary]
chris: (proposal) meet June 9, then every other week
16:21:13 [Gary]
... meet = RIF telecon
16:21:19 [sandro]
chris: (4 weeks last call period)
16:22:41 [Gary]
csma: if REC in Nov, when do we need implementations?
16:23:11 [Gary]
sandro: transition from LC to CR may be overly optimistic
16:23:30 [Gary]
... at least 5 weeks
16:24:04 [sandro]
csma: we need implementations done by the end of September.
16:24:13 [Gary]
csma: implementors should start now (last call)
16:24:26 [Gary]
sandro: implement what?
16:24:49 [Gary]
... e.g. all the different entailments, etc
16:25:20 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:27:06 [ChrisW]
Attendees: ChrisW, csma, cke, Harold, Sandro, Stella, Hassan, Gary, Axel, Adrian, Michael
16:27:21 [DaveReynolds]
Dave
16:27:28 [ChrisW]
Attendees: ChrisW, csma, cke, Harold, Sandro, Stella, Hassan, Gary, Axel, Adrian, Michael, Dave
16:27:52 [csma]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:27:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/02-rif-minutes.html csma
16:28:06 [AxelPolleres]
Sandro...( maybe also dave?) can you stay on the phgone for some question on the recent discussions on rdf:text?
16:28:37 [AxelPolleres]
too late to catch dave... :-/
16:40:17 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has left #rif
16:59:53 [csma]
csma has left #rif
18:42:31 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
19:17:48 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
20:29:37 [MoZ]
MoZ has joined #rif
20:39:37 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
21:02:24 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has left #rif
22:20:06 [MoZ]
MoZ has joined #rif