IRC log of CSS on 2009-05-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:45:07 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #CSS
15:45:07 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-CSS-irc
15:45:13 [glazou]
Zakim, this will be Style
15:45:13 [Zakim]
ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
15:54:21 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:54:28 [Zakim]
+dsinger
15:54:46 [Zakim]
-dsinger
15:54:47 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
15:54:47 [Zakim]
Attendees were dsinger
15:54:56 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:55:03 [Zakim]
+dsinger
15:55:20 [dsinger_]
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-dsinger
15:55:53 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
15:55:53 [Zakim]
Attendees were dsinger
15:57:58 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:58:02 [glazou]
aaah
15:58:04 [Zakim]
+glazou
15:58:05 [Zakim]
+dsinger
15:58:21 [dsinger_]
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15:58:38 [dsinger_]
Zakim, mute me
15:58:38 [Zakim]
sorry, dsinger_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:58:42 [glazou]
Zakim, mute dsinger
15:58:42 [Zakim]
dsinger should now be muted
15:59:00 [glazou]
np
16:00:53 [dsinger_]
Zakim, who is here?
16:00:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see dsinger (muted), glazou
16:00:54 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dsinger_, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, myakura, MoZ, MikeSmith, jdaggett, annevk, karl, fantasai, dsinger, plinss_, krijnh, anne, Hixie, plinss, Bert, trackbot
16:01:31 [Zakim]
+plinss
16:01:57 [glazou]
ok Bert
16:02:19 [Zakim]
+fantasai
16:02:48 [Zakim]
+SteveZ
16:03:28 [szilles]
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16:05:15 [Zakim]
+Bert
16:06:29 [fantasai]
ScribeNick: fantasai
16:06:36 [cesar_acebal]
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16:06:45 [fantasai]
Daniel: Bert, you sent two extra items
16:06:47 [fantasai]
Topic: Agenda
16:06:53 [fantasai]
Daniel: First one is about tpac
16:06:58 [fantasai]
Daniel: Other is about F2F
16:07:03 [howcome]
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16:07:08 [glazou]
http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/108
16:07:08 [fantasai]
Topic: CSS2.1 Issue 108
16:07:32 [fantasai]
s/CSS2.1/
16:07:35 [fantasai]
/
16:07:47 [fantasai]
Interaction of border-image and border-radius
16:08:31 [fantasai]
I'm reading clilley's email
16:08:36 [fantasai]
I don't understand why it's unclear
16:10:01 [Zakim]
+ +47.21.65.aaaa
16:11:39 [fantasai]
fantasai: I don't see what's unclear here
16:11:55 [fantasai]
fantasai: border-radius does not affect the border-image, but it is still used to define the clip areas for other things
16:12:15 [Zakim]
-fantasai
16:12:29 [glazou]
fantasai: disconnected...
16:12:30 [arronei]
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16:12:55 [Bert]
zakim, who is making noise?
16:12:55 [Zakim]
+fantasai
16:13:05 [Zakim]
Bert, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P8 (14%), glazou (20%)
16:14:05 [arronei]
Sorry late regrets. Got pulled into a meeting. I am on IRC though
16:14:34 [dsinger_]
Picture(s)?
16:14:49 [Zakim]
+ +34.60.940.aabb
16:14:53 [fantasai]
ACTION: fantasai reply to chrisL
16:15:04 [fantasai]
Zakim, +34 is Cesar
16:15:04 [Zakim]
+Cesar; got it
16:15:08 [glazou]
http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/107
16:16:02 [trackbot]
Could not create new action - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
16:16:02 [trackbot]
Could not create new action - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
16:16:04 [fantasai]
Steve: He's talking about when ruby appears both above and below the text
16:16:12 [fantasai]
Steve: E.g. University with kana above and English below
16:16:26 [fantasai]
Steve: Our default is to put both the kana and the English above, and that doesn't make sense
16:16:40 [fantasai]
Steve: What he proposes is I think ok if I understand complex ruby correctlyk
16:17:33 [fantasai]
fantasai: We still don't have an editor for Ruby, though
16:17:43 [fantasai]
fantasai: Last editor was Paul Nelson, before that Michel Suignard
16:17:47 [glazou]
arronei: can MSFT edit Ruby ?
16:18:00 [arronei]
possibly. I will check with sylvain
16:18:35 [fantasai]
Daniel: We have Steve's opinion, need others
16:18:39 [fantasai]
fantasai: can ask i18n
16:18:51 [fantasai]
ACTION: Steve ask i18n for their opinion
16:19:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-145 - Ask i18n for their opinion [on Steve Zilles - due 2009-06-03].
16:19:34 [dsinger_]
Zakim who is making noise?
16:19:39 [Zakim]
- +47.21.65.aaaa
16:19:58 [Zakim]
-glazou
16:20:00 [ChrisL]
ChrisL has joined #css
16:20:28 [glazou]
grrr the bridge does not let come back
16:20:36 [Zakim]
+??P3
16:21:05 [ChrisL]
zakim, ??P3 is me
16:21:05 [Zakim]
+ChrisL; got it
16:21:07 [Zakim]
+glazou
16:21:28 [ChrisL]
(sorry to be late, just got back from dentist)
16:21:32 [szilles]
Daniel we cannot understand a word you say
16:21:34 [glazou]
np
16:21:47 [glazou]
hold on
16:21:54 [Zakim]
-glazou
16:22:11 [Zakim]
+ +00472164aacc
16:22:23 [Zakim]
+glazou
16:22:46 [glazou]
lol @ morse code
16:24:33 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, here
16:24:33 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-CSS-irc#T16-24-33
16:24:47 [fantasai]
Discussion with Chris to bring him up to date on the border-radius/border-image issue
16:24:55 [fantasai]
Topic: 3rd Agenda Item
16:24:58 [glazou]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0200.html
16:25:03 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:26:52 [fantasai]
fantasai: I think the issue about falling back from viewbox to width/height should be defined in SVG, it's not a CSS issue
16:27:02 [fantasai]
fantasai: I don't know what to do about preserveAspectRatio
16:27:25 [Zakim]
+[Apple]
16:27:28 [fantasai]
ChrisL: pAR is about negotiating between the SVG and the renderer
16:27:35 [Zakim]
-dsinger
16:27:43 [fantasai]
ChrisL: They negotiate a size and the SVG figures out how to fill that size
16:27:52 [dsinger]
zakim, [apple] has dsinger
16:27:52 [Zakim]
+dsinger; got it
16:28:51 [fantasai]
ChrisL: I think percentages make a lot of sense for dividing the SVG
16:29:04 [fantasai]
ChrisL: Rasterization should happen after stretching
16:30:26 [fantasai]
fantasai: I think for border-image you basically treat it as pAR none
16:31:22 [fantasai]
ChrisL: I want to do the partitioning and scaling on the vector geometry, and then rasterize it
16:33:04 [fantasai]
fantasai: If the spec doesn't deal with images that have no intrinsic size, then that's an issue we should address. But the details of viewbox attributes vs width/height attributes should be in the SVG spec
16:33:16 [ChrisL]
There needs to be a way to specify what size rendering of the svg s desired, for the usual case where its a scalable image without an intrinsic size
16:36:10 [ChrisL]
fantasai, you suggested using the border box size as the size to render the svg
16:36:20 [fantasai]
fantasai: I think I should change "CSS px units" to "vector coordinates"
16:38:27 [fantasai]
fantasai: but other than that, you don't need to pick a size to be able to divide the SVG image
16:38:49 [fantasai]
fantasai: and when you scale and place the images, you're using regions defined by the size of the element's border box
16:38:56 [fantasai]
fantasai: that do not depend on the image
16:41:54 [fantasai]
ACTION: Chris check editor's draft for any needed changes
16:41:54 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Chris
16:41:54 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ChrisWilson, clilley)
16:42:07 [fantasai]
ACTION: fantasai change "CSS px units" to "vector coordinates"
16:42:17 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-146 - Change "CSS px units" to "vector coordinates" [on Elika Etemad - due 2009-06-03].
16:43:48 [ChrisL]
-o-border-image: url("border.png") 27 27 27 27 round stretch;
16:43:48 [ChrisL]
-icab-border-image: url("border.png") 27 27 27 27 round stretch;
16:43:48 [ChrisL]
-khtml-border-image: url("border.png") 27 27 27 27 round stretch;
16:43:48 [ChrisL]
-moz-border-image: url("border.png") 27 27 27 27 round stretch;
16:43:48 [ChrisL]
-webkit-border-image: url("border.png") 27 27 27 27 round stretch;
16:43:49 [ChrisL]
border-image: url("border.png") 27 27 27 27 round stretch;
16:43:52 [fantasai]
Steve: Might help to come up with examples where the SVG stretches differently
16:44:06 [glazou]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0184.html
16:45:39 [fantasai]
fantasai: Bert's message says that the spec is clear on how @rules should be handled inside declaration blocks
16:46:20 [fantasai]
fantasai: But the resolution was to change the spec so that they are parsed as invalid @rules rather than as invalid tokens
16:46:30 [fantasai]
fantasai: So we don't have a proposal that implements the resolution
16:46:50 [fantasai]
Bert: I thought the resolution was to change @page so that the @rules must appear at the end of the @page block
16:46:54 [fantasai]
Bert: not to change 2.1
16:47:07 [fantasai]
Bert: Surely we have more implementations of 2.1 than of @page
16:47:59 [fantasai]
Daniel: So what do we do?
16:48:15 [fantasai]
fantasai: well, we /have/ a resolution. If we want, we can reopen the issue
16:48:26 [fantasai]
fantasai: but we should do that next week, not this week
16:48:57 [fantasai]
Topic: F2F
16:49:24 [fantasai]
Daniel: There are a lot of topics on the F2F meeting agenda page
16:49:35 [fantasai]
Dnaiel: It would help a lot if people sent emails to say which topics they would like to discuss
16:49:45 [fantasai]
Daniel and Peter will prepare the agenda tomorrow
16:49:58 [fantasai]
http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sophia-2009
16:50:12 [fantasai]
Daniel: We would like to prepare an agenda by the end of the week, so please send your comments soon
16:50:19 [fantasai]
Daniel: Is everyone attending all three days?
16:50:25 [fantasai]
http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sophia-2009
16:50:37 [fantasai]
Howcome: I thought I wasn't coming, but I'm coming.
16:52:33 [fantasai]
Daniel: In your emails, if you have a car let us know
16:52:48 [fantasai]
Daniel: Carpool from Antibes, carpool from airport
16:52:57 [fantasai]
Daniel: Bert wanted to know if everyone is staying for the visit to the library
16:53:04 [fantasai]
Daniel: If you cannot come, please say
16:53:48 [fantasai]
Molly, Anne, and fantasai will be staying near ERCIM
16:54:04 [fantasai]
Daniel: If you did not notice, there will be a fee for attending TPAC
16:54:12 [fantasai]
Daniel: If you register late it's $75
16:54:47 [fantasai]
Daniel: Early it's $50/day
16:54:54 [fantasai]
Daniel: So register early
16:56:11 [fantasai]
Dsinger: I will want to attend both CSS and HTML5
16:56:17 [fantasai]
Steve: I'm chairing a meeting on Thursday
16:56:33 [fantasai]
Daniel: Do most of you prefer Mon-Tues?
16:56:41 [fantasai]
Daniel: Bert, is there still time to change?
16:56:52 [fantasai]
Daniel: Is everyone ok with 2 and 3 of November?
16:57:12 [fantasai]
Daniel: Ok, let's try to change for 2nd and 3rd of November
16:57:32 [Zakim]
-[Apple]
16:57:58 [fantasai]
Steve and Chris want to discuss the IPTV thing
16:58:01 [fantasai]
with dsinger
16:58:08 [dsinger]
I'm still on IRC
16:58:39 [fantasai]
Steve: It seems to be mainly China, Japan, and Korea
16:58:57 [fantasai]
will get discussed next week
16:59:27 [Zakim]
-fantasai
16:59:28 [Zakim]
- +00472164aacc
16:59:29 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
16:59:29 [fantasai]
Meeting closed
16:59:31 [Zakim]
-glazou
16:59:32 [Zakim]
-plinss
16:59:32 [Zakim]
-Cesar
16:59:34 [Zakim]
-SteveZ
16:59:41 [Zakim]
-Bert
16:59:42 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
16:59:44 [glazou]
sure
16:59:44 [Zakim]
Attendees were glazou, dsinger, plinss, fantasai, SteveZ, Bert, +47.21.65.aaaa, +34.60.940.aabb, Cesar, ChrisL, +00472164aacc
16:59:51 [fantasai]
dsinger: no, no call :) just f2f
17:00:04 [glazou]
that's enough :)
17:00:22 [cesar_acebal]
Zakim, +34.60.940.aabb is Cesar
17:00:22 [Zakim]
sorry, cesar_acebal, I do not recognize a party named '+34.60.940.aabb'
17:00:37 [ChrisL]
although you could perhaps call in?
17:01:04 [dsinger]
I'll try to keep IRC running
17:01:16 [cesar_acebal]
cesar_acebal has left #css
17:01:53 [ChrisL]
5-6pm France is 8-9am California, would that slot work for you?
17:04:23 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:04:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-CSS-minutes.html ChrisL
17:37:10 [dsinger]
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22:28:09 [fantasai]
shepazu: are there non-raster image formats that don't have a coordinate system?
22:28:49 [shepazu]
fantasai: I'm not sure how that would work...
22:28:54 [shepazu]
I don't know of any
22:29:07 [fantasai]
shepazu: requiring the use of units
22:29:37 [fantasai]
shepazu: so there wouldn't be a native coord system, you'd have to specify sizes in inches or points or kilometers or something
22:29:40 [shepazu]
hmmm.... can you ping the www-svg list about it? chrisL probably would know
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