IRC log of rif on 2009-05-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:47:38 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:47:38 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-rif-irc
14:47:44 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:47:44 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
14:47:47 [ChrisW]
zakim, clear agenda
14:47:47 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:47:56 [ChrisW]
Chair: Chris Welty
14:48:01 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:48:18 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 26-May-2009
14:48:32 [ChrisW]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009May/0205.html
14:49:05 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has changed the topic to: RIF Last Call Day II Telecon, Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009May/0205.html
14:49:34 [ChrisW]
Regrets: PaulVincent
14:49:57 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:50:50 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Admin
14:50:59 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Liason
14:51:10 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Action Review
14:51:17 [MoZ]
s/Liason/Liaison/
14:51:28 [ChrisW]
agenda+ PRD
14:51:32 [ChrisW]
agenda+ SWC
14:51:35 [ChrisW]
agenda+ FLD
14:51:44 [ChrisW]
agenda+ XML Schema task force
14:51:52 [ChrisW]
agenda+ WG Future and schedule
14:51:58 [ChrisW]
agenda+ rdf:text
14:52:01 [ChrisW]
agenda+ AOB
14:52:09 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up next item
14:52:09 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
14:58:54 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:58:58 [Zakim]
+Sandro
14:59:18 [mdean]
mdean has joined #rif
14:59:37 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
14:59:38 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
14:59:48 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
15:00:27 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
15:00:52 [Zakim]
+Hassan_Ait-Kaci
15:01:34 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:01:45 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:01:54 [ChrisW]
Scribe: Mike Dean
15:02:00 [ChrisW]
scribenick: mdean
15:02:09 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:02:09 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
15:02:22 [Zakim]
+??P15
15:02:23 [Zakim]
+Stella_Mitchell
15:02:25 [ChrisW]
zakim, Mike_Dean is mdean
15:02:25 [Zakim]
+mdean; got it
15:02:31 [hak]
hak has joined #rif
15:02:48 [ChrisW]
zakim, ??P15 is cke
15:02:48 [Zakim]
+cke; got it
15:02:48 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
15:02:53 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ChrisW, cke, Stella_Mitchell
15:03:19 [cke]
cke has joined #RIF
15:03:32 [ChrisW]
zakim, Hassan_Ait-Kaci is hak
15:03:32 [Zakim]
+hak; got it
15:03:43 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute hak
15:03:43 [Zakim]
hak should now be muted
15:04:29 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
15:04:43 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:04:47 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:04:49 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:05:02 [Zakim]
+??P42
15:05:19 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:05:26 [Zakim]
+??P44
15:05:29 [AdrianP]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:05:29 [Zakim]
+AdrianP; got it
15:06:02 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, hak (muted), ChrisW, cke, Stella_Mitchell, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb
15:06:27 [cke]
Christian is in IRC, but not on the phone
15:06:31 [DaveReynolds]
Apologies but I need to leave the call early (by about 40 min)
15:06:46 [ChrisW]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009May/att-0195/19-May-2009-rif-minutes.html
15:06:52 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: accept last weeks minutes
15:07:12 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: accept last weeks minutes
15:07:15 [mdean]
ChrisW: contain 3 last call resolutions
15:07:22 [Gary_Hallmark]
Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
15:07:23 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:07:23 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:07:27 [mdean]
ChrisW: no agenda amendments
15:08:05 [Zakim]
+Gary
15:08:08 [mdean]
Sandro: SPARQL working group response and discussion about rdf:text
15:08:23 [mdean]
... need about 3 words change - mention SPARQL explicitly - all editorial
15:08:24 [Zakim]
+csma
15:08:33 [mdean]
... lots of people misunderstood spec
15:08:36 [csma]
zakim, csma is me
15:08:36 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
15:08:38 [mdean]
... close to consensus
15:09:11 [mdean]
... Axel proposed change from rdf:text to rdf:plainLiteral
15:09:21 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:09:21 [Zakim]
csma.a should now be muted
15:09:27 [josb]
I would be fine with the name change
15:09:31 [mdean]
... don't expect any (other) substantiive changes
15:09:51 [mdean]
ChrisW: shouldn't require another last call by itself
15:10:26 [mdean]
Sandro: OWL 2 close to CR - one more document and internal approval - should be CR in a couple weeks
15:10:35 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:10:35 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Action Review" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:10:53 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:11:26 [ChrisW]
close action-822
15:11:27 [trackbot]
ACTION-822 Change subscript "l" in 6.1 to something else (not so confused with "1") and have Jos proof-read the change. closed
15:11:41 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer
15:11:55 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:11:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, hak (muted), ChrisW, cke, Stella_Mitchell, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma.a (muted), MichaelKifer
15:11:57 [mdean]
close action-821
15:11:57 [trackbot]
ACTION-821 Review pending DTB actions (815-820) closed
15:12:46 [csma]
782 and 784 are continued
15:12:56 [StellaMitchell]
zakim, Stella_Mitchell is really me
15:12:56 [Zakim]
+StellaMitchell; got it
15:13:23 [mdean]
780 and 777 are continued
15:13:28 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:13:28 [Zakim]
csma.a should no longer be muted
15:13:34 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
15:14:04 [mdean]
csma: hope for PRD last call today
15:14:38 [mdean]
ChrisW: Axel hasn't yet reviewed appendix
15:14:48 [mdean]
772 and 770 are continued
15:15:42 [mdean]
close action-770
15:15:42 [trackbot]
ACTION-770 Review Core closed
15:17:07 [mdean]
765 is continued
15:17:10 [StellaMitchell]
708 continued (in progress)
15:17:20 [hak]
continued until further notice ... (will get really serious on it when all the RIF XML vocabularies are stable - last call)
15:17:42 [mdean]
ChrisW: concludes open actions
15:18:00 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:18:12 [mdean]
... pending review: test cases, DTB treatment of casting
15:18:15 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:18:15 [Zakim]
csma.a should now be muted
15:18:31 [mdean]
close action-740
15:18:31 [trackbot]
ACTION-740 Accomodate casting functions in a well defined manner closed
15:19:00 [Harold]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:19:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, hak (muted), ChrisW, cke, StellaMitchell, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma.a (muted)
15:19:01 [mdean]
close action-815
15:19:01 [trackbot]
ACTION-815 Mark rdf:text at risk in DTB closed
15:19:14 [Harold]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:19:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, hak (muted), ChrisW, cke, StellaMitchell, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma.a (muted)
15:19:38 [mdean]
close action-816
15:19:38 [trackbot]
ACTION-816 Rename "primitive" datatypes to datatypes closed
15:19:42 [mdean]
close action-815
15:19:42 [trackbot]
ACTION-815 Mark rdf:text at risk in DTB closed
15:19:47 [mdean]
close action-818
15:19:47 [trackbot]
ACTION-818 Make base directive iris absolute closed
15:19:55 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:19:55 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "PRD" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:20:04 [mdean]
ChrisW: concludes action review
15:20:17 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:20:17 [Zakim]
csma.a should no longer be muted
15:20:42 [Zakim]
+AxelPolleres
15:20:48 [mdean]
... reviewers for PRD: Harold and Shanghai (sp)
15:21:12 [cke]
s/Shanghai/Changhai
15:21:15 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
15:21:35 [mdean]
csma: English proofreading
15:22:23 [mdean]
csma: Adrian addressed model theoretic concerns
15:22:27 [sandro]
Harold, do you know how to do wiki diffs? They are pretty readable these days...
15:22:29 [sandro]
(usually)
15:22:48 [mdean]
... moved semantics of conditions to appendix
15:24:11 [mdean]
... target audience more familiar with pattern-matching semantics
15:24:49 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer
15:25:21 [mdean]
Harold: (forward) references to appendix are OK
15:25:34 [cke]
Christian, your change addresses my main concern. The others are more minor
15:26:20 [Harold]
PRD Editors, the Abstract is still a bit short.
15:26:25 [mdean]
Gary: would like pattern-matching and model theory to be equivalent, but requires talking about safety
15:26:55 [Harold]
s/safety/safeness/
15:27:21 [mdean]
csma: only reference to safety in conformance and definition in core, which may be obscure to non-logician
15:27:54 [mdean]
s/safety/safeness
15:28:21 [mdean]
csma: perhaps remove pattern matching from title of section
15:28:51 [mdean]
Gary: don't require constraint solving
15:29:34 [mdean]
csma: current definitions are equivalent
15:29:55 [mdean]
... this is an editorial change
15:30:01 [mdean]
Gary: wasn't obvious from my reading
15:30:19 [mdean]
csma: pattern matching title is misleading
15:31:00 [mdean]
csma: operational definition of safeness - working on it for a while
15:31:13 [mdean]
... hesitant to make Last Call dependent on such an editorial change
15:32:21 [sandro]
csma: This is just an editorial change; it does not affect conformance. we're clear that constraint satisfaction is not needed in consumers.
15:32:48 [Zakim]
+LeoraMorgenstern
15:33:32 [cke]
Does PRD inherit the safeness from Core??
15:33:33 [sandro]
csma: This will make understanding PRD easier for users, but does not change definition. We should work on this later, after Last Call.
15:33:56 [sandro]
chris: the change is: the move discussion of safeness to be earlier in document?
15:34:15 [sandro]
csma: Not exactly: to add an operational definition of safeness. Maybe move it -- I don't know.
15:34:43 [AdrianP]
we should try to build the PRD safety defintion upon the Core safety definition
15:35:10 [sandro]
chris: everyone agree that an operational definition of safeness is not required for last call?
15:35:19 [sandro]
harold: agreed
15:35:26 [josb]
agreed
15:35:40 [cke]
There is so far no mention of safeness in PRD.
15:35:59 [sandro]
mdean, don't let me as stop you from scribing -- I just want additional clarity on bits which I think are crucial to minute.
15:36:39 [csma]
Changhai: there is, in the conformance section.
15:38:39 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
15:38:48 [Gary]
2 issues: 1. is the model theory and pattern matching really the same? or does pattern matching imply safeness? 2. assuming equivalent, we should make it more obvious that safeness is required and can be used to simplify implementation
15:38:50 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma.a (92%)
15:38:58 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
15:39:10 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma.a (75%)
15:40:23 [csma]
actions: check that the two spec of the semantics of the condition are equivalent
15:41:55 [ChrisW]
action: chris to review PRD operational and model=theoretic conditions are =
15:41:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-824 - Review PRD operational and model=theoretic conditions are = [on Christopher Welty - due 2009-06-02].
15:41:57 [csma]
... clarify that safeness is required to guarantee that constraint solving is not required for RIF-PRD
15:43:34 [ChrisW]
action: csma to clarify in PRD that safeness is required to guarantee that constraint solving is not needed
15:43:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-825 - Clarify in PRD that safeness is required to guarantee that constraint solving is not needed [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-06-02].
15:43:40 [mdean]
csma: should satisfy Gary's comment
15:43:49 [csma]
... add, if possible, an operational definition of safety
15:44:10 [ChrisW]
action: csma add, if possible, an operational definition of safety
15:44:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-826 - Add, if possible, an operational definition of safety [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-06-02].
15:44:21 [mdean]
csma: definition would probably go in appendix
15:44:58 [mdean]
ChrisW: Last Call dependent on completion of actions 824 and 825
15:45:22 [mdean]
csma: also need to remove appendix 13 - currently incomplete
15:45:23 [ChrisW]
action: csma to fix or remove appendix 13
15:45:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-827 - Fix or remove appendix 13 [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-06-02].
15:45:48 [ChrisW]
action: gary review csma changes to PRD
15:45:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-828 - Review csma changes to PRD [on Gary Hallmark - due 2009-06-02].
15:46:27 [mdean]
csma: Last Call dependent on completion of 824, 825, 827, 828
15:47:23 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Publish PRD as Last Call, contingent on completion of actions 824, 825, 827, and 828
15:47:34 [Harold]
+1
15:47:36 [AdrianP]
+1
15:47:37 [cke]
+1
15:47:39 [StellaMitchell]
+1
15:47:40 [Gary]
+1
15:47:40 [mdean]
+1
15:47:41 [DaveReynolds]
+1
15:47:45 [hak]
+1
15:47:47 [ChrisW]
Axel: +1 (on phone)
15:47:51 [apollere2]
apollere2 has joined #rif
15:47:53 [MichaelKifer]
+1
15:47:54 [josb]
0 [since I could not review it]
15:47:56 [ChrisW]
+1
15:48:09 [sandro]
+1
15:48:13 [apollere2]
+1
15:48:14 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:48:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, mdean, hak (muted), ChrisW, cke, StellaMitchell, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma.a, AxelPolleres, MichaelKifer, LeoraMorgenstern
15:49:07 [ChrisW]
Leora: +1 (on phone)
15:49:18 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Publish PRD as Last Call, contingent on completion of actions 824, 825, 827, and 828
15:49:24 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:49:24 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "SWC" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:49:36 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:49:36 [Zakim]
csma.a should now be muted
15:49:46 [mdean]
ChrisW: 2 reviews, from Axel and Gary
15:50:44 [mdean]
ChrisW: PRD checklist includes - check syntactic list ... from core
15:50:44 [ChrisW]
ack csma.a
15:50:47 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:50:47 [Zakim]
csma.a was not muted, csma
15:51:07 [mdean]
s/.../restriction/
15:51:45 [mdean]
Adrian: done for presentation syntax and XML
15:51:57 [mdean]
ChrisW: back to SWC
15:52:14 [mdean]
Axel: import for OWL, but OWL doesn't have import for RIF (e.g. DL Safe RIF Rules)
15:52:28 [mdean]
... a couple editorial items
15:53:01 [mdean]
... XML Schema namespace prefix terminology
15:53:18 [mdean]
ChrisW: not fixed?
15:53:27 [mdean]
Axel: no email from Jos
15:53:38 [mdean]
Jos: not yet incorporated
15:54:17 [mdean]
ChrisW: make concrete list and action, so vote can be contingent
15:54:18 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:54:18 [Zakim]
csma.a should now be muted
15:55:34 [mdean]
Axel: multi-structures look different from BLD
15:56:04 [DaveReynolds]
Sorry I have to drop off. Vote +1 SWC for last call (subject to editorial changes from Axel). Vote 0 FLD for last call (no objection but prefer Chris's wording on Should/Must and haven't fully studied latest version).
15:57:20 [Zakim]
-DaveReynolds
15:59:02 [mdean]
ChrisW: changed a couple months ago
15:59:38 [mdean]
MichaelKifer: lack of uniformity entailing formulas that are not documents
16:00:19 [mdean]
... can now adorn any structure with any formula
16:00:45 [mdean]
s/can now/could/
16:00:56 [mdean]
... now more restrictive
16:01:17 [mdean]
... role of each item in semantic structure is now clear
16:01:28 [csma]
(Re lists in PRD: I just checked, and the abstract syntax includes the restriction)
16:01:52 [mdean]
... also allows more uniformity in FLD
16:02:51 [mdean]
ChrisW: SWC still has old multi-structure definition
16:03:12 [mdean]
MichaelKifer: ... not needed there, kind of artificial
16:04:12 [mdean]
Axel: recursive imports needs to be clarified
16:05:04 [mdean]
Jos: addressed in section 5.2
16:05:25 [mdean]
s/addressed/recursive imports addressed/
16:06:08 [mdean]
ChrisW: imports closure
16:06:53 [ChrisW]
action: josb to update SWC to new BLD definition of multi-structures
16:06:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-829 - Update SWC to new BLD definition of multi-structures [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2009-06-02].
16:10:01 [ChrisW]
action: to review jos' edits to SWC
16:10:01 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
16:10:06 [ChrisW]
action: axel to review jos' edits to SWC
16:10:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-830 - Review jos' edits to SWC [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-02].
16:10:32 [mdean]
Gary: all known issues have been taken care of
16:11:45 [mdean]
Jos: suggest publishing SWC without proofs
16:12:57 [mdean]
Sandro: haven't asked for publication date yet - probably June 2 or 4, but could probably push off to June 9
16:13:31 [mdean]
ChrisW: proofs are non-normative
16:14:04 [mdean]
Jos: might require small changes
16:14:06 [sandro]
bug-fixed after Last Call are okay.
16:15:17 [mdean]
Sandro: worth waiting for proofs?
16:15:55 [mdean]
... but extra week would also help for rdf:text
16:16:32 [mdean]
Chris: get well soon
16:16:48 [ChrisW]
action: josb to finish the SWC proofs or remove them
16:16:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-831 - Finish the SWC proofs or remove them [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2009-06-02].
16:16:49 [mdean]
s/Chris/ChrisW/
16:17:20 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: publish SWC as Last Call, pending completion of actions 829, 831, and 830
16:17:37 [AdrianP]
+1
16:17:39 [ChrisW]
+1
16:17:41 [josb]
+1
16:17:42 [Harold]
+1
16:17:43 [cke]
+1
16:17:43 [sandro]
+1
16:17:43 [StellaMitchell]
+1
16:17:43 [hak]
+1
16:17:44 [Gary]
+1
16:17:44 [MichaelKifer]
+1
16:17:45 [mdean]
+1
16:17:47 [apollere2]
+1
16:17:50 [ChrisW]
Leora: +1 (on phone)
16:18:06 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: publish SWC as Last Call, pending completion of actions 829, 831, and 830
16:18:17 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
16:18:17 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "XML Schema task force" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:18:30 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
16:18:30 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:18:32 [Zakim]
7. XML Schema task force [from ChrisW]
16:18:33 [Zakim]
8. WG Future and schedule [from ChrisW]
16:18:34 [Zakim]
9. rdf:text [from ChrisW]
16:18:34 [Zakim]
10. AOB [from ChrisW]
16:18:40 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 6
16:18:40 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "FLD" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:19:04 [mdean]
ChrisW: reviewed by Stella and Chris
16:19:17 [mdean]
StellaMitchell: all comments have been addressed
16:20:23 [ChrisW]
"All logic RIF dialects are required to be derived from RIF-FLD by specialization, as explained..."
16:20:43 [ChrisW]
"MUST"
16:22:07 [csma]
+1 that non-conformance is not weel defined, if it is a MUST
16:22:09 [ChrisW]
"All RIF dialects SHOULD be derived from RIF-FLD by specialization, as explained..."
16:22:19 [mdean]
s/weel/well/
16:23:14 [csma]
q+
16:23:34 [mdean]
ChrisW: SHOULD implies that you should say why if you can't do something
16:24:09 [Harold]
End of first paragraph: "Therefore, any logic dialect being developed to become a standard should either be a specialization of FLD or justify its extensions to (or, deviations from) FLD"
16:25:35 [csma]
q?
16:25:39 [Harold]
Could be changed to: "Therefore, any dialect being developed to become a standard should either be a specialization of FLD or justify its extensions to (or, deviations from) FLD"
16:26:17 [mdean]
MichaelKifer: prefer MUST and keeping logic
16:26:41 [mdean]
... but not a showstopper
16:26:42 [csma]
ack csma
16:26:55 [ChrisW]
ack csma.a
16:27:02 [ChrisW]
zakim, csma.a is csma
16:27:02 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
16:27:02 [Harold]
At later points "logic" could be kept.
16:27:47 [mdean]
csma: +1 for SHOULD, afraid of consequences of removing logic on PRD
16:28:06 [sandro]
ChrisW, let's just use SHOULD and leave in "logic".... okay?
16:28:15 [mdean]
ChrisW: still went through process, but not documented - grandfathered in
16:28:39 [sandro]
PROPOSED.... ?
16:28:51 [sandro]
ChrisW, we don't have a lot of time!!
16:29:25 [Harold]
What about: "Therefore, the development of any dialect to become a standard should start as a specialization of FLD or justify its extensions to (or, deviations from) FLD"
16:29:32 [mdean]
csma: removing logic throughout would be very painful
16:29:46 [ChrisW]
action: to update wording in intro & abstract to use "SHOULD"
16:29:46 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
16:30:24 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: go for another 10 mins?
16:30:24 [hak]
-1
16:30:25 [sandro]
+1 extend 10+ minuntes
16:30:27 [csma]
+1
16:30:30 [Harold]
+1
16:30:34 [mdean]
+1
16:30:41 [AdrianP]
+1
16:30:56 [mdean]
ChrisW: disjointness of variables and constants
16:31:01 [Zakim]
-hak
16:31:53 [mdean]
MichaelKifer: special syntax for constants would make this a mess and require disambiguation rules, e.g. open formulas
16:31:54 [csma]
action: mkifer to update wording in intro & abstract to use "SHOULD"
16:31:54 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-832 - Update wording in intro & abstract to use "SHOULD" [on Michael Kifer - due 2009-06-02].
16:32:26 [mdean]
ChrisW: don't require all dialects, but allow free variables in framework
16:32:38 [mdean]
s/all/in all/
16:32:59 [mdean]
MichaelKifer: require would substantial revisions
16:33:27 [mdean]
... need to think of what changes would require, but don't see much value
16:33:47 [mdean]
ChrisW: don't have particular use case, but note that it is allowed in Common Logic
16:34:20 [mdean]
MichaelKifer: if it's quantified, you know it's a variable
16:35:10 [mdean]
s/require would/would require/
16:35:25 [sandro]
MichaelKifer: because it's an exchange language, you always apply some sort of transformation anyway.
16:35:28 [mdean]
Harold: some editorial edits
16:35:43 [mdean]
... introduced extension points - now also in schema
16:36:03 [mdean]
MichaelKifer: haven't looked at Stella's message today
16:36:15 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Publish FLD as Last Call pending completion of action 832
16:36:17 [mdean]
StellaMitchell: clarification regarding XML serialization
16:36:33 [ChrisW]
+1
16:36:34 [sandro]
+1
16:36:38 [MichaelKifer]
+1
16:36:39 [StellaMitchell]
+1
16:36:40 [Harold]
+1
16:36:41 [mdean]
+1
16:36:44 [josb]
+1
16:36:44 [ChrisW]
Leora: +1 (on phone)
16:36:49 [AdrianP]
+1
16:36:54 [apollere2]
+1
16:37:01 [Gary]
+1
16:37:19 [cke]
+1
16:37:30 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Publish FLD as Last Call pending completion of action 832
16:37:55 [csma]
clap! clap! clap!
16:38:06 [mdean]
ChrisW: good work!
16:38:19 [mdean]
... long road
16:38:35 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 7
16:38:35 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "XML Schema task force" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:39:03 [Zakim]
-josb
16:39:16 [mdean]
ChrisW: glossed over several issues in normative exchange syntax
16:39:56 [mdean]
ChrisW: task force will meet regularly during Last Call, finish modularization, etc.
16:39:59 [cke]
How long will be task force be?
16:40:07 [csma]
I will send an email tomorrow
16:40:10 [mdean]
... csma will be leading the task force
16:40:16 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 8
16:40:16 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "WG Future and schedule" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:40:31 [AdrianP]
have not received any invite for the task force?
16:40:41 [mdean]
ChrisW: expecting a telecon next week and the week after that
16:41:02 [csma]
action: csma to send email about the XML schemas TF
16:41:02 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-833 - Send email about the XML schemas TF [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2009-06-02].
16:41:08 [mdean]
... then reduce to at least once a month to respond to LC comments as needed
16:41:15 [csma]
zakim, numute me
16:41:15 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'numute me', csma
16:41:22 [mdean]
... still reserve time slot but don't need every week
16:41:22 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:41:22 [Zakim]
csma was not muted, csma
16:41:41 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 9
16:41:41 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "rdf:text" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:41:43 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:41:43 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:42:16 [mdean]
Sandro: any problems with replacing rdf:text with rdf:plainLiteral?
16:43:00 [sandro]
rdf:PlainLiteral (capital P)
16:43:03 [csma]
ack csma
16:43:03 [mdean]
ChrisW: adjourned
16:43:07 [Zakim]
-Gary
16:43:11 [Zakim]
-LeoraMorgenstern
16:43:20 [Zakim]
-StellaMitchell
16:43:21 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
16:43:21 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:43:23 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, ChrisW, mdean, cke, hak, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma, MichaelKifer, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres,
16:43:25 [Zakim]
... LeoraMorgenstern
16:43:30 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:43:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:43:41 [Zakim]
-AdrianP
16:43:48 [csma]
zakim, who is the phone?
16:43:48 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, csma.
16:43:54 [Zakim]
-cke
16:43:55 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
16:43:55 [Zakim]
-mdean
16:43:58 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:43:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisW, csma, AxelPolleres
16:44:14 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
16:44:55 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
16:44:56 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:44:56 [Zakim]
-csma
16:44:58 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:44:59 [Zakim]
Attendees were Sandro, ChrisW, mdean, cke, hak, Harold, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, josb, Gary, csma, MichaelKifer, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres, LeoraMorgenstern
16:45:54 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has left #rif
16:53:22 [AdrianP]
Is it possible to have it one hour later 6 pm CEST?
16:57:21 [MoZ]
MoZ has joined #rif
17:02:23 [csma]
csma has left #rif
17:33:36 [sandro]
Zakim, room for 2?
17:33:37 [Zakim]
ok, sandro; conference Team_(rif)17:33Z scheduled with code 7431 (RIF1) for 60 minutes until 1833Z
18:34:45 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif