IRC log of backplane on 2009-05-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:50:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #backplane
14:50:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-backplane-irc
14:50:14 [wiecha]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:50:19 [wiecha]
Meeting: RWAB telecon
14:50:21 [wiecha]
Chair: wiecha
14:50:37 [wiecha]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009May/0022.html
15:00:34 [unl]
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15:00:35 [Zakim]
INC_RWAB()11:00AM has now started
15:00:42 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:00:42 [Steven]
Steven has joined #backplane
15:00:47 [wiecha]
zakim, [IBM] is wiecha
15:00:48 [Zakim]
+wiecha; got it
15:01:04 [jackjansen]
jackjansen has joined #backplane
15:01:04 [wiecha]
Scribe: wiecha
15:01:17 [jackjansen]
zakim, code?
15:01:22 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7922 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jackjansen
15:01:35 [wiecha]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009May/0022.html
15:01:51 [wiecha]
Topic: Meeting day/time
15:02:01 [Zakim]
+jackjansen
15:02:04 [Zakim]
+ +49.307.544.aaaa
15:02:28 [unl]
zakim, +49.307.544.aaaa is me
15:02:28 [Zakim]
+unl; got it
15:04:37 [unl]
zakim, mute me
15:04:37 [Zakim]
unl should now be muted
15:04:41 [jackjansen]
jackjansen has joined #backplane
15:05:31 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
15:05:31 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:05:33 [Zakim]
+Steven
15:06:31 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-backplane-minutes.html Steven
15:07:03 [wiecha]
We'll shift to Monday at 14:30 once we hear from Gregory if that works for him.
15:07:43 [wiecha]
Topic: Brainstorming on XG Report
15:07:59 [wiecha]
Oct 6 is the end of our charter period
15:08:44 [wiecha]
Could we also get a conf paper out of this work?
15:08:50 [wiecha]
Steven, Jack: good idea
15:08:52 [unl]
+1
15:09:38 [wiecha]
Document Engineering from ACM
15:09:41 [wiecha]
also perhaps WWW
15:09:50 [wiecha]
hard to get in
15:10:08 [wiecha]
if we also did a deep dive on ubiquity that could work there
15:10:52 [wiecha]
jack: also perhaps conferences on programming languages
15:11:00 [wiecha]
focused on declarative web languages
15:11:22 [wiecha]
Steven: have recently seen some conf announcements for declarative programming languages
15:11:43 [Steven]
http://www.math.unipr.it/~gianfr/DeclProgr.html
15:12:17 [Steven]
PPDP03: http://www.it.uu.se/ppdp03/
15:13:15 [Zakim]
-wiecha
15:13:17 [Steven]
http://www.dcc.fc.up.pt/ppdp09/cfp
15:13:24 [Steven]
Missed the deadline for this year's
15:13:40 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:13:46 [wiecha]
zakim, [IBM] is wiecha
15:13:46 [Zakim]
+wiecha; got it
15:14:12 [Steven]
http://www.acm.org/uist/uist2009/
15:15:25 [wiecha]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Dec/0003.html
15:18:03 [wiecha]
for a venue like www we should talk a fair bit about ubuiquity as an enabling platform as well
15:18:11 [wiecha]
and bring in mark and john as co-authors
15:18:28 [wiecha]
Steven: and accessibility
15:19:03 [wiecha]
given that's one of the advantages of declarative markups
15:19:22 [wiecha]
Jack: for the report, we can pick any format we like? correct?
15:19:29 [wiecha]
Steven: yes, we decide what goes in there
15:19:33 [wiecha]
Jack: seem to be many angles
15:19:46 [wiecha]
accessibility, integration, programmer productivity
15:19:52 [wiecha]
Charlie: also the platform/ubiquity issues
15:20:03 [wiecha]
jack: nail down these points, and then assume we do a chapter on each
15:20:14 [wiecha]
then the conf paper can emphasize one or the other of these themes
15:20:21 [wiecha]
e.g. for www, sw infrastructure, etc
15:20:24 [wiecha]
Steven: yes
15:20:26 [wiecha]
+1
15:20:49 [wiecha]
Jack: might well be one person in the group who is reasonable first author for each topic
15:21:48 [wiecha]
topics:
15:21:56 [wiecha]
accessibility (gregory)
15:22:07 [wiecha]
runtime platform (mark, john)
15:23:06 [wiecha]
integration: data model as API, MVC binding ideas (Jack, Charlie, John)
15:23:50 [wiecha]
other coordination patterns: relevance, explicit controllers like SMIL, SCXML
15:24:22 [wiecha]
Mark as emphasized just the basic event-oriented coordination (vs. method invocation)
15:24:31 [wiecha]
as a means for transparency and accessibility
15:25:00 [wiecha]
emergence of new markups, e.g. SMIL and ODF
15:25:06 [wiecha]
goes back to platform issues
15:25:10 [wiecha]
reuse goes in integration
15:26:11 [wiecha]
data-driven UIs, e.g. repeat's as higher level coordination pattern between model and view
15:26:42 [wiecha]
not necessarily tied to xf:repeat but a more general pattern
15:28:13 [wiecha]
what about the XG "report"
15:28:22 [wiecha]
what's the means to deliver?
15:28:40 [wiecha]
how best do we have impact on the W3C with the XG report per se?
15:29:01 [wiecha]
TPAC is still on
15:29:23 [wiecha]
Philippe's demo got a fair bit of attention at the AC meeting
15:30:02 [wiecha]
how do we make the "inside" story compelling?
15:32:13 [wiecha]
Steven: what are we trying to achieve, a WG, Interest Group? or are we done?
15:33:41 [wiecha]
make it compelling that we've used the current runtime/browsers for new markups
15:33:49 [wiecha]
Steven: so make the case for a standard way to do this
15:33:58 [wiecha]
so there would be future work...how to do this
15:34:26 [wiecha]
how you bind js libraries to markups, create a driver etc etc
15:34:31 [wiecha]
flip side of XHTML modularization
15:34:37 [wiecha]
how to implement without being native
15:34:45 [wiecha]
Jack: this is the infrastructure layer of ubiquity
15:34:57 [wiecha]
Steven: we'd end up standardizing ubiquity
15:35:13 [wiecha]
or some variant of it
15:35:42 [wiecha]
Jack: ubiquity++ that formalizes how to attach the "glue"
15:36:42 [wiecha]
2nd point is bringing MVC and the backplane into the HTML world
15:37:09 [wiecha]
Steven: sort of independent of HTML
15:37:46 [wiecha]
mix and match with HTML rather than impacting the HTML wg per se
15:38:22 [Zakim]
-Steven
15:38:23 [Zakim]
-unl
15:38:23 [Zakim]
-wiecha
15:38:24 [Zakim]
-jackjansen
15:38:24 [Zakim]
INC_RWAB()11:00AM has ended
15:38:25 [Zakim]
Attendees were wiecha, jackjansen, unl, Steven
15:38:31 [wiecha]
rrsagent make minutes
15:38:42 [wiecha]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:38:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-backplane-minutes.html wiecha