14:50:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #backplane
14:50:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-backplane-irc
14:50:14 <wiecha> rrsagent, make logs public
14:50:19 <wiecha> Meeting: RWAB telecon
14:50:21 <wiecha> Chair: wiecha
14:50:37 <wiecha> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009May/0022.html
15:00:34 <unl> unl has joined #backplane
15:00:35 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has now started
15:00:42 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:00:42 <Steven> Steven has joined #backplane
15:00:47 <wiecha> zakim, [IBM] is wiecha
15:00:48 <Zakim> +wiecha; got it
15:01:04 <jackjansen> jackjansen has joined #backplane
15:01:04 <wiecha> Scribe: wiecha
15:01:17 <jackjansen> zakim, code?
15:01:22 <Zakim> the conference code is 7922 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jackjansen
15:01:35 <wiecha> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009May/0022.html
15:01:51 <wiecha> Topic: Meeting day/time
15:02:01 <Zakim> +jackjansen
15:02:04 <Zakim> + +49.307.544.aaaa
15:02:28 <unl> zakim, +49.307.544.aaaa is me
15:02:28 <Zakim> +unl; got it
15:04:37 <unl> zakim, mute me
15:04:37 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
15:04:41 <jackjansen> jackjansen has joined #backplane
15:05:31 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:05:31 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:05:33 <Zakim> +Steven
15:06:31 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-backplane-minutes.html Steven
15:07:03 <wiecha> We'll shift to Monday at 14:30 once we hear from Gregory if that works for him.
15:07:43 <wiecha> Topic: Brainstorming on XG Report
15:07:59 <wiecha> Oct 6 is the end of our charter period
15:08:44 <wiecha> Could we also get a conf paper out of this work?
15:08:50 <wiecha> Steven, Jack: good idea
15:08:52 <unl> +1
15:09:38 <wiecha> Document Engineering from ACM
15:09:41 <wiecha> also perhaps WWW
15:09:50 <wiecha> hard to get in
15:10:08 <wiecha> if we also did a deep dive on ubiquity that could work there
15:10:52 <wiecha> jack: also perhaps conferences on programming languages
15:11:00 <wiecha> focused on declarative web languages
15:11:22 <wiecha> Steven: have recently seen some conf announcements for declarative programming languages
15:11:43 <Steven> http://www.math.unipr.it/~gianfr/DeclProgr.html
15:12:17 <Steven> PPDP03: http://www.it.uu.se/ppdp03/
15:13:15 <Zakim> -wiecha
15:13:17 <Steven> http://www.dcc.fc.up.pt/ppdp09/cfp
15:13:24 <Steven> Missed the deadline for this year's
15:13:40 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:13:46 <wiecha> zakim, [IBM] is wiecha
15:13:46 <Zakim> +wiecha; got it
15:14:12 <Steven> http://www.acm.org/uist/uist2009/
15:15:25 <wiecha> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Dec/0003.html
15:18:03 <wiecha> for a venue like www we should talk a fair bit about ubuiquity as an enabling platform as well
15:18:11 <wiecha> and bring in mark and john as co-authors
15:18:28 <wiecha> Steven: and accessibility
15:19:03 <wiecha> given that's one of the advantages of declarative markups
15:19:22 <wiecha> Jack: for the report, we can pick any format we like? correct?
15:19:29 <wiecha> Steven: yes, we decide what goes in there
15:19:33 <wiecha> Jack: seem to be many angles
15:19:46 <wiecha> accessibility, integration, programmer productivity
15:19:52 <wiecha> Charlie: also the platform/ubiquity issues
15:20:03 <wiecha> jack: nail down these points, and then assume we do a chapter on each
15:20:14 <wiecha> then the conf paper can emphasize one or the other of these themes
15:20:21 <wiecha> e.g. for www, sw infrastructure, etc
15:20:24 <wiecha> Steven: yes
15:20:26 <wiecha> +1
15:20:49 <wiecha> Jack: might well be one person in the group who is reasonable first author for each topic
15:21:48 <wiecha> topics:
15:21:56 <wiecha> accessibility (gregory)
15:22:07 <wiecha> runtime platform (mark, john)
15:23:06 <wiecha> integration: data model as API, MVC binding ideas (Jack, Charlie, John)
15:23:50 <wiecha> other coordination patterns: relevance, explicit controllers like SMIL, SCXML
15:24:22 <wiecha> Mark as emphasized just the basic event-oriented coordination (vs. method invocation)
15:24:31 <wiecha> as a means for transparency and accessibility
15:25:00 <wiecha> emergence of new markups, e.g. SMIL and ODF
15:25:06 <wiecha> goes back to platform issues
15:25:10 <wiecha> reuse goes in integration
15:26:11 <wiecha> data-driven UIs, e.g. repeat's as higher level coordination pattern between model and view
15:26:42 <wiecha> not necessarily tied to xf:repeat but a more general pattern
15:28:13 <wiecha> what about the XG "report"
15:28:22 <wiecha> what's the means to deliver?
15:28:40 <wiecha> how best do we have impact on the W3C with the XG report per se?
15:29:01 <wiecha> TPAC is still on
15:29:23 <wiecha> Philippe's demo got a fair bit of attention at the AC meeting
15:30:02 <wiecha> how do we make the "inside" story compelling?
15:32:13 <wiecha> Steven: what are we trying to achieve, a WG, Interest Group? or are we done?
15:33:41 <wiecha> make it compelling that we've used the current runtime/browsers for new markups
15:33:49 <wiecha> Steven: so make the case for a standard way to do this
15:33:58 <wiecha> so there would be future work...how to do this
15:34:26 <wiecha> how you bind js libraries to markups, create a driver etc etc
15:34:31 <wiecha> flip side of XHTML modularization
15:34:37 <wiecha> how to implement without being native
15:34:45 <wiecha> Jack: this is the infrastructure layer of ubiquity
15:34:57 <wiecha> Steven: we'd end up standardizing ubiquity
15:35:13 <wiecha> or some variant of it
15:35:42 <wiecha> Jack: ubiquity++ that formalizes how to attach the "glue"
15:36:42 <wiecha> 2nd point is bringing MVC and the backplane into the HTML world
15:37:09 <wiecha> Steven: sort of independent of HTML
15:37:46 <wiecha> mix and match with HTML rather than impacting the HTML wg per se
15:38:22 <Zakim> -Steven
15:38:23 <Zakim> -unl
15:38:23 <Zakim> -wiecha
15:38:24 <Zakim> -jackjansen
15:38:24 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has ended
15:38:25 <Zakim> Attendees were wiecha, jackjansen, unl, Steven
15:38:31 <wiecha> rrsagent make minutes
15:38:42 <wiecha> rrsagent, make minutes
15:38:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/26-backplane-minutes.html wiecha