IRC log of svg on 2009-05-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:32:57 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
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logging to
06:32:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
06:33:01 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
06:33:01 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
06:33:02 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
06:33:02 [trackbot]
Date: 25 May 2009
06:33:09 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has now started
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06:33:44 [Zakim]
06:33:45 [Zakim]
06:33:45 [Zakim]
06:33:57 [Zakim]
06:34:02 [ed]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
06:34:02 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
06:34:07 [anthony]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
06:34:08 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
06:34:35 [heycam`]
heycam` has joined #svg
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06:35:32 [jwatt]
Zakim, +[IPcaller} in me
06:35:32 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+[IPcaller} in me', jwatt
06:35:36 [shepazu]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is jwatt
06:35:36 [Zakim]
+jwatt; got it
06:36:06 [Zakim]
06:36:08 [heycam`]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
06:36:08 [Zakim]
+heycam`; got it
06:37:00 [ChrisL]
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06:38:01 [Zakim]
06:39:39 [heycam`]
Scribe: Chris
06:39:45 [heycam`]
ScribeNick: ChrisL
06:40:28 [ChrisL]
Topic: SVG 1.1 Second Edition update
06:40:34 [heycam`]
06:40:55 [ChrisL]
CmcC: Finished collecting diffs wrt first edition
06:41:06 [ChrisL]
... put in a changes appendix
06:41:07 [heycam`]
06:41:30 [ChrisL]
... all the ones *not* captured by errata
06:42:02 [ChrisL]
CL: why exclude changes from the eratta?
06:42:23 [ChrisL]
CMcC: there is a link
06:42:50 [ChrisL]
CL: People mostly want to know what changed, not necessarily why. Could be confusing
06:42:59 [ChrisL]
DS: Agree with Chris
06:43:07 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Please review the diffs
06:43:18 [ChrisL]
DS: Suggest discussing at f2f
06:43:21 [ChrisL]
ED: Yes
06:43:54 [heycam`]
06:43:54 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Errata ostly not folded in yet
06:44:47 [ChrisL]
... some will not be clean patches due to other overlappig updates, so be careful when applying them.
06:45:01 [ChrisL]
DS: There are 66 errata in total
06:45:14 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Split them up and assign them?
06:45:17 [ChrisL]
DS: Yes
06:46:07 [ChrisL]
AG: So 11 each
06:46:28 [ChrisL]
DS: Split the complex ones evenly
06:47:11 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Prefer to have the spec ready to publish at the end of the f2f.
06:47:18 [ChrisL]
DS: Cameron, hand out tasks
06:47:34 [ChrisL]
CL: Yes, go for it
06:48:45 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Got errata published
06:49:48 [ChrisL]
CL: Can fix encoding issue with .htaccess file
06:50:06 [heycam`]
06:50:10 [ChrisL]
06:50:30 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Some actions need to be done before f2f
06:51:30 [ChrisL]
... will sift through tracker and add actions to that list
06:52:00 [ChrisL]
ED: What about test cases?
06:52:18 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Not all errata have tests, some diffs may need tests also
06:52:36 [ChrisL]
AG: Cat 2 and 1 errata will not need test cases, mostly
06:52:55 [ChrisL]
ED: Some tests in the old repository, need to dig them out
06:53:43 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Who will look for missing tests?
06:53:50 [ed]
06:53:57 [ed]
(that's the old tests)
06:54:43 [ChrisL]
AG: We should add tests as we add in errata, spreads the load
06:55:36 [ChrisL]
CMcC: OK so I will do the non-errata tests and the people allocated errata should add the tests too
06:56:02 [ChrisL]
ACTION: Cameron to identify test cases needed for changes in the changes appendix for 1.1SE
06:56:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2573 - Identify test cases needed for changes in the changes appendix for 1.1SE [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-06-01].
06:56:40 [ChrisL]
ACTION: Cameron to allocate errata fold-in tasks to active WG embers
06:56:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2574 - Allocate errata fold-in tasks to active WG embers [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-06-01].
06:56:47 [ChrisL]
06:57:07 [ChrisL]
Topic: California F2F dates and venue; TPAC 2009 schedule
06:58:36 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Decided to go for just before SVGOpen
07:00:01 [ed]
07:01:09 [ChrisL]
DS: Only advantage of afterwards is immediate update from the conference. But before is fine
07:01:25 [ChrisL]
CMcC: JWAtt, is Mozilla ok to host a meeting?
07:01:58 [ChrisL]
JW: Waiting to hear back
07:02:25 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Workshops are higher priority as needs more space
07:02:40 [ChrisL]
JW: Mozilla also moving buildings which complicates things
07:03:13 [ChrisL]
DS: Will be looking at the space at Google, next week. Could ask if they would host us, its just one room.
07:04:02 [ChrisL]
DS: Or we could rotate around the cafes .....
07:06:05 [ChrisL]
(discussion of the number and size of workshops at svg open)
07:07:37 [heycam`]
07:07:39 [ChrisL]
Topic: TPAC
07:07:46 [ChrisL]
07:08:52 [ChrisL]
DS: Mini-TPAC was seen as competing with main tpac so we can't do it.
07:11:24 [ChrisL]
... some of us may attend anyway to do coordination rather than svg wg specific stuff
07:11:39 [ChrisL]
... call-in for specific topics also a possibility
07:12:01 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Want to get topics arranged in advance
07:12:23 [ChrisL]
DS: There is a USD 50/day charge for TPAC this year
07:13:19 [ChrisL]
AG: still getting approval for TPAC
07:13:54 [ChrisL]
... depends on travel-ban for health scare stuff
07:14:44 [ChrisL]
Topic: Raleigh F2F agenda
07:14:53 [ChrisL]
07:15:16 [ChrisL]
DS: So we have errata checking for publication of 1.1SE by end of the meeting
07:15:21 [ChrisL]
CMcC: What else
07:15:35 [ChrisL]
ED: Thought there was an action to fill this in already?
07:17:07 [ChrisL]
Please fill in the registration form
07:18:17 [ed]
07:20:48 [ChrisL]
CL: Need list of CSS-SVG coord topics for CSS f2f agenda. Then the results can be disussed at svg the week after
07:21:03 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Module reports and issues arising
07:21:21 [ChrisL]
ED: Folding in the applying filters to html stuff that roc sent in
07:21:34 [ChrisL]
CL: Good idea
07:21:55 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Also add goals for the meeting
07:22:39 [ChrisL]
Topic; ISSUE-2273: Should negative index values raise INDEX_SIZE_ERR
07:22:51 [ChrisL]
07:23:32 [ChrisL]
Does not raise an index size error exception
07:24:14 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Param is unsigned long so no negative numbers possible anyway
07:24:35 [ChrisL]
... would be casrt to unsigned int
07:25:06 [ChrisL]
... which other methods raise this?
07:25:13 [ChrisL]
ED: replaceItem, getItem
07:25:41 [ChrisL]
... SVG not the only spec to face this issue
07:26:00 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Older specs that don't reference WebIDL
07:27:31 [ed]
07:27:40 [ChrisL]
ED: DOM3Core hasan insertData which throws on negative even though ther parameter is unsigned long
07:28:58 [ChrisL]
CMcC: touint32 tends to be used
07:29:59 [ChrisL]
CL: so it would re-interpret the bit pattern and end up with a huge number not a negative one
07:30:04 [ChrisL]
CcC: Yes
07:30:11 [ChrisL]
... need to test implementations
07:30:31 [ChrisL]
...with large magnitude negative numbers
07:31:26 [ChrisL]
... not sure without testing first
07:32:07 [ChrisL]
ED: Don't think iplementations throw exception, but some may flag as a security breach
07:32:35 [ChrisL]
... or crash
07:33:07 [ChrisL]
... s a hint to trap this is good. Prefer throwing to be consistent.
07:33:29 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Agree, and tend more to removing it rather than adding it here
07:34:23 [ChrisL]
... could mention in ecmascript binding appendix
07:34:33 [ChrisL]
ED: Yes, that makes more sense
07:34:53 [ChrisL]
JW: Out of our scope surely
07:35:01 [shepazu]
agenda+ href in SVG
07:35:07 [ChrisL]
... converted before SVG even sees it
07:35:56 [ChrisL]
CMcC: yes, not our layer. But unless WebIDL is referenced we can either not mention it, leave it undefined, or document current practice
07:37:07 [ChrisL]
JW: Prefer to see this as authoring guidelines
07:37:30 [heycam`]
When an ECMAScript Number is assigned to a property that corresponds to an attribute of an IDL integer type (long, unsigned short or unsigned long), or it is passed as an argument passed to an operation for which the argument type is an IDL integer type, then behavior is undefined if the Number value is not an integer within the range of that type.
07:38:31 [ChrisL]
CL: sounds like good wording
07:38:47 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Prefer that wording and removing the negative index exception
07:40:38 [ChrisL]
07:41:18 [ChrisL]
Resolution: We will remove the negative index size error exception on list interface methods
07:41:55 [ed]
"INDEX_SIZE_ERR: Raised if the index number is negative or greater than or equal to numberOfItems." -> "INDEX_SIZE_ERR: Raised if the index number is greater than or equal to numberOfItems."
07:41:57 [ChrisL]
ACTION: Erik to remove the negative index size error exception on list interface methods and mention in changes appendix in 1.1SE
07:41:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2575 - Remove the negative index size error exception on list interface methods and mention in changes appendix in 1.1SE [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-06-01].
07:42:58 [ChrisL]
ED: What to edit?
07:43:14 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Edit the IDL file, the appendix inclusion is automatic
07:43:39 [ChrisL]
... and edit the changes appandix manually
07:44:20 [ChrisL]
zakim, take up agendum 1
07:44:22 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "href in SVG" taken up [from shepazu]
07:45:02 [shepazu]
07:46:55 [ChrisL]
07:46:56 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2042 -- Consider adding adding non-NS linking syntax -- RAISED
07:46:56 [trackbot]
07:47:23 [ChrisL]
DS: Robin did clarify somewhat but not completely
07:47:26 [shepazu]
07:48:00 [Zakim]
07:48:23 [Zakim]
07:48:26 [heycam`]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
07:48:26 [Zakim]
+heycam`; got it
07:49:37 [ChrisL]
CL: Needs more discussion
07:52:25 [ChrisL]
DS: A middle ground is to allow xlink: to be dropped, and also allow src as well as href in places where html allows it
07:52:40 [ChrisL]
AG: Concerned about backwards compatibility
07:53:09 [ChrisL]
CMcC: Yes, prefer to se html compat rather than an xlink rewrite
07:53:25 [ChrisL]
... leads into a wider discussion at f2f
07:53:51 [ChrisL]
Topic: Other f2f topics
07:54:08 [ChrisL]
DS: Want to see a serious discussion about enhanced gradients
07:54:36 [ChrisL]
.... deigners using multiple gradients and blur, but its awkward
07:57:11 [ChrisL]
CL: three possibilities have been discussed, diffusion curves, trimesh and coons patches
07:57:32 [ChrisL]
AG: diff curves paper used OpenGL accelleration, but was done in 2 passes
07:58:44 [ChrisL]
... the last blur step is the performance killer, if there is no hw accel
08:00:32 [ChrisL]
CmcC: Good to have more info on these for f2f
08:04:33 [ChrisL]
(chris describes image borders and drop shadows in css3)
08:07:21 [ChrisL]
ACTION: Erik to check with Opera implementors on css3 image borders, slicing/scaling and SVG use
08:07:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2576 - Check with Opera implementors on css3 image borders, slicing/scaling and SVG use [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-06-01].
08:08:47 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make logs public
08:09:02 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make minutes
08:09:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ChrisL
08:09:23 [Zakim]
08:09:25 [Zakim]
08:09:26 [Zakim]
08:09:27 [Zakim]
08:09:35 [Zakim]
08:09:36 [ChrisL]
Chair: Cameron
08:09:40 [Zakim]
08:09:42 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has ended
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Attendees were Shepazu, ed, anthony, jwatt, heycam`
08:09:48 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make minutes
08:09:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ChrisL
08:14:57 [ed]
regarding things I haven't heard back on fully from CSS,
08:15:53 [shepazu]
ed: you might reply to my email so ChrisL has a list
08:18:07 [ChrisL]
yes, please do
08:20:39 [ed]
08:47:30 [heycam]
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10:23:26 [ed_work]
heycam: what do I need in order to run the spec makescripts on a mac? i get an UnsupportedClassVersionError...
10:23:35 [ed_work]
from the idlparser.jar
10:23:44 [heycam]
10:23:51 [heycam]
i guess i should compile it with an earlier java version
10:24:04 [heycam]
you're using java 5?
10:24:28 [ed_work]
yep, 1.5.0_16 according to "java -version" :)
10:24:58 [heycam]
k, hold on a few mins while i insall a 1.5 jdk
10:26:12 [heycam]
after switching from debian to ubuntu, i find it somehow strange that there's a sun-java5-jdk package available for me to apt-get install!
10:34:15 [heycam]
ed_work, cvs up SVG/tools/idlparser.jar and try again please
10:36:55 [ed_work]
works now, thanks
10:39:22 [heycam]
10:40:07 [heycam]
if you edit examples or the idl and run make it won't notice it to build the right chapters
10:40:19 [heycam]
so you'll have to touch the relevant chapters (or just make clean; make) in that case
10:41:38 [ed_work]
if you allocate errata items to me I will try to fold them in today
10:41:53 [ed_work]
have a couple of hours on the train to stockholm
10:42:29 [heycam]
ooh ok
10:42:34 [heycam]
i'll take a look in a min
10:57:02 [heycam]
10:57:13 [heycam]
i gave you mostly filter ones, hope that's to your liking! :)
11:00:28 [ed_work]
no problem
11:01:48 [heycam]
ed_work, if any of those need you to edit the content module sets then you'll have to defer those until i restore them
11:03:55 [ed_work]
11:28:13 [heycam]
action: cameron to edit the dtd to allow presentation attributes where appropriate
11:28:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2577 - Edit the dtd to allow presentation attributes where appropriate [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-06-01].
12:00:44 [heycam]
close action-2574
12:00:45 [trackbot]
ACTION-2574 Allocate errata fold-in tasks to active WG embers closed
12:00:50 [ed_work]
ACTION: ed to consider adding an informative note in the Filters module about color-interpolation-filers and feDisplacementMap,
12:00:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2578 - Consider adding an informative note in the Filters module about color-interpolation-filers and feDisplacementMap, [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-06-01].
12:24:59 [heycam]
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13:40:29 [heycam]
ed_work, i mistakenly committed a non-functioning copy of idlparser.jar earlier
13:40:49 [heycam]
(it was ignoring all of the javadoc-style comments)
13:41:03 [heycam]
a fixed one is committed now
13:42:19 [heycam]
ed_work, ah no it's still not working; i'll fix it tomorrow
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