IRC log of swxg on 2009-05-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:57:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swxg
12:57:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-irc
12:57:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #swxg
12:57:43 [dom]
trackbot, start meeting
12:57:44 [danbri]
zakim, this will be SOXG
12:57:44 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, danbri
12:57:45 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
12:57:47 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7994
12:57:47 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
12:57:48 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
12:57:48 [trackbot]
Date: 20 May 2009
12:57:52 [danbri]
thanks
12:58:12 [danbri]
how did trackbot do that? :)
12:58:23 [dom]
it's called magic
12:58:23 [danbri]
cool!
12:58:47 [dom]
Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.rdf
12:58:47 [Zakim]
working on it, dom
12:58:48 [Zakim]
done reading agenda, dom
12:58:51 [renato]
string matching
12:59:09 [dom]
zakim, agenda?
12:59:09 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
12:59:25 [tinkster]
zakim, mute me
12:59:25 [Zakim]
sorry, tinkster, I don't know what conference this is
12:59:28 [karl]
zqkim, who's on the call
12:59:33 [karl]
zakim, who's on the call
12:59:33 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's on the call', karl
12:59:40 [karl]
zakim, who's her?
12:59:40 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, karl.
12:59:41 [tinkster]
zakim, this will be SWXG
12:59:41 [Zakim]
ok, tinkster, I see INC_SWXG()9:00AM already started
12:59:42 [dom]
zakim, who's on the call?
12:59:42 [karl]
zakim, who's here?
12:59:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.314.705.aaaa, karl, tinkster, ??P0, ??P8
12:59:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.314.705.aaaa, karl, tinkster, ??P0, ??P8
12:59:45 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, DKA, mischat, oshani, renato, AlexKorth, danbri, melvster, AdamB, pchampin, raphael, tinkster, FabGandon, karl, trackbot, uldis, dom, AlexPassant
12:59:50 [tinkster]
zakim, mute me
12:59:50 [Zakim]
tinkster should now be muted
12:59:52 [Zakim]
-??P8
13:00:10 [tinkster]
Hello all!
13:00:17 [karl]
zakim, mute me
13:00:17 [Zakim]
karl should now be muted
13:00:18 [Zakim]
+??P11
13:00:21 [Zakim]
+??P8
13:00:33 [Zakim]
+MIT531
13:00:34 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P11 is me
13:00:35 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
13:00:38 [DKA]
zakim, who am i?
13:00:38 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, DKA.
13:00:43 [AdamB]
zakim, .aaaa is me
13:00:43 [Zakim]
sorry, AdamB, I do not recognize a party named '.aaaa'
13:00:47 [oshani]
zakim, MIT531 is me
13:00:47 [Zakim]
+oshani; got it
13:00:48 [karl]
-> http://w3csocialweb.tumblr.com/post/110450120/lifestreams-the-time-of-specs Last week in the Social Web
13:00:48 [DKA]
zakim, ??p8 is me.
13:00:48 [Zakim]
+DKA; got it
13:00:51 [Zakim]
+??P14
13:00:53 [oshani]
zakim, mute me
13:00:53 [Zakim]
oshani should now be muted
13:00:55 [AdamB]
zakim, aaaa is me
13:00:55 [Zakim]
+AdamB; got it
13:01:28 [AlexKorth]
I again have no clue of who I am on the phone. Experiences with skype, anyone?
13:01:35 [Zakim]
+??P13
13:01:50 [renato]
zankim, I am +??P14
13:01:53 [mischat]
zakim, ??P13 is me
13:01:53 [Zakim]
+mischat; got it
13:02:01 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
13:02:01 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
13:02:14 [DKA]
zakim, who is here?
13:02:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdamB, karl (muted), tinkster (muted), ??P0, AlexPassant, DKA, oshani (muted), ??P14, mischat (muted)
13:02:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, DKA, mischat, oshani, renato, AlexKorth, danbri, melvster, AdamB, pchampin, raphael, tinkster, FabGandon, karl, trackbot, uldis, dom, AlexPassant
13:02:19 [renato]
zakim, I am ??P14
13:02:19 [Zakim]
+renato; got it
13:02:42 [tinkster]
Toby
13:02:58 [AlexKorth]
zakim, ??P14 is probably me
13:02:58 [Zakim]
I already had ??P14 as renato, AlexKorth
13:03:10 [Zakim]
+Hakan
13:03:24 [AlexKorth]
zakim, ??P0 is probably me
13:03:24 [Zakim]
+AlexKorth?; got it
13:03:41 [DKA]
zakim, who is here?
13:03:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdamB, karl (muted), tinkster (muted), AlexKorth?, AlexPassant, DKA, oshani (muted), renato, mischat (muted), Hakan
13:03:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, DKA, mischat, oshani, renato, AlexKorth, danbri, melvster, AdamB, pchampin, raphael, tinkster, FabGandon, karl, trackbot, uldis, dom, AlexPassant
13:03:48 [Zakim]
+??P22
13:03:52 [danbri]
zakim, ??P2 is danbri
13:03:52 [Zakim]
+danbri; got it
13:04:06 [Zakim]
+HenryStory
13:04:27 [tinkster]
yes
13:04:51 [tinkster]
I can do if no-one else wants to.
13:04:57 [karl]
zakim, unmute me
13:04:57 [Zakim]
karl should no longer be muted
13:05:02 [danbri]
tinkster++!
13:05:03 [danbri]
thanks
13:05:10 [karl]
tinkster, did you did it last week?
13:05:11 [DKA]
Scribe: Toby
13:05:18 [tinkster]
ScribeNick: tinkster
13:05:21 [DKA]
ScribeNick: tinkster
13:05:51 [tinkster]
DKA: Kicking off with Harry's agenda. Topic #1 is review of last week's minutes. Any objections?
13:05:59 [DKA]
http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html
13:06:43 [tinkster]
DKA: Discussion of task forces. Lots about this last week. Two proposals from last meeting.
13:07:07 [karl]
q+
13:07:08 [AlexKorth]
correct
13:07:10 [mischat]
can privacy and context merge ?
13:07:11 [tinkster]
... Privacy TF, Portability & Arch TF. Karl and Joaquim as possible leaders?
13:07:41 [tinkster]
Karl: Joaquim was not interested in leading TF, but in looking at scope of TF to make sure not too broad.
13:07:47 [oshani]
+1 to merging privacy and context task forces
13:07:55 [Zakim]
+pchampin
13:08:01 [mischat]
mtiffiel = mischat
13:08:10 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories
13:08:11 [tinkster]
... has been progress on user stories thanks to Oshani and someone else (Mischa?) on Wiki.
13:08:11 [AlexKorth]
+1 to merging privacy and context task forces
13:08:28 [karl]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories User Stories
13:08:56 [oshani]
zakim, unmute me
13:08:56 [Zakim]
oshani should no longer be muted
13:09:00 [mischat]
i have also put some text regarding privacy here http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics
13:09:06 [karl]
zakim, mute me
13:09:06 [Zakim]
karl should now be muted
13:09:07 [tinkster]
Karl: Not able to introduce the user stories, but Oshani can.
13:10:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.510.931.aabb
13:10:19 [tinkster]
oshani: User stories - #1 intransitive nature of privacy policies. http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Intransitivity_of_Rules.2FPolicies_Applied_to_Social_Network_Data
13:10:23 [bblfish]
bblfish has joined #swxg
13:10:52 [bblfish]
hi
13:11:12 [mischat]
q+
13:11:19 [karl]
ack karl
13:11:24 [karl]
zakim, mute me
13:11:24 [Zakim]
karl should now be muted
13:11:38 [DKA]
ack mis
13:11:48 [tinkster]
mischat: Hello.
13:12:01 [mischat]
zakin, muted me
13:12:05 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
13:12:05 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
13:12:20 [AlexKorth]
what's the app's name?
13:12:21 [tinkster]
oshani: #2 Inferences based on Contextual Data http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Inferences_based_on_Contextual_Data
13:12:36 [AlexKorth]
k
13:13:31 [oshani]
zakim, unmute me
13:13:31 [Zakim]
oshani was not muted, oshani
13:13:33 [mischat]
harry did those as far as i am aware
13:13:42 [mischat]
q+
13:13:44 [oshani]
zakim, mute me
13:13:44 [Zakim]
oshani should now be muted
13:14:00 [tinkster]
mischat: Other user stories were submitted by Harry (who sends regrets).
13:14:03 [bblfish]
there's the interesting story of the French TF1 journalist who wrote privately to his MP criticising the hadopi law passing in parliament which found it's way into the hands of the minister, and then into the hands of his employer, who then sacked him.
13:14:18 [tinkster]
DKA: danbri made a remark about throwaway identities.
13:14:18 [Viktor]
Viktor has joined #swxg
13:15:26 [tinkster]
danbri: OpenID - single use accounts ; how are two different accounts connected to each other?
13:16:03 [tinkster]
... If one OpenID site has something nice to say about me, then the karma associated with that account, should carry across to other IDs.
13:16:21 [tinkster]
DKA: This sounds plausible. Is it related to privacy?
13:16:35 [tinkster]
ACTION danbri to document throwaway IDs on Wiki
13:16:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-8 - Document throwaway IDs on Wiki [on Dan Brickley - due 2009-05-27].
13:16:41 [mischat]
i have put some text up re privacy and context
13:16:47 [mischat]
i could talk through it
13:16:51 [danbri]
action: danbri write up user story about different kinds of "single use" openids (eg. karma)
13:16:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-9 - Write up user story about different kinds of "single use" openids (eg. karma) [on Dan Brickley - due 2009-05-27].
13:16:53 [AlexKorth]
throwaway IDs: good point
13:17:08 [tinkster]
DKA: any other user stories to highlight?
13:17:19 [mischat]
zakim, unmute me
13:17:19 [Zakim]
mischat should no longer be muted
13:17:27 [tinkster]
... can mischat elaborate on where to take these stories next?
13:17:54 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics
13:18:08 [mib_84g3c5]
mib_84g3c5 has joined #swxg
13:18:15 [tinkster]
mischat: was actioned to put up some info on privacy and context. There was no "champion" for Context - if it needs to be merged, then perhaps with Privacy.
13:18:32 [Zakim]
+uldis
13:18:44 [uldis]
Zakim: mute me
13:19:02 [uldis]
Zakim, mute me
13:19:02 [Zakim]
uldis should now be muted
13:19:12 [tinkster]
... People benefit from context - one of the main benefits of social networks. There's a tension between privacy and involvement in a network.
13:19:29 [oshani]
there has been some work on co-ownership of data on SNs : see http://www2009.eprints.org/53/1/p521.pdf
13:19:39 [AdamB]
Zakim, who is here?
13:19:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdamB, karl (muted), tinkster (muted), AlexKorth?, AlexPassant, DKA, oshani (muted), renato, mischat, Hakan, danbri, HenryStory, pchampin (muted),
13:19:42 [Zakim]
... +1.510.931.aabb, uldis (muted)
13:19:43 [tinkster]
... Talked about privacy and removing unwanted information. Garlik did a survey of government agencies and UK Data Protection Act.
13:19:45 [Zakim]
On IRC I see mib_84g3c5, Viktor, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, DKA, mischat, oshani, renato, AlexKorth, danbri, melvster, AdamB, pchampin, raphael, tinkster, FabGandon, karl, trackbot,
13:19:47 [Zakim]
... uldis, dom, AlexPassant
13:20:03 [tinkster]
... Should we look at privacy policies of current social networks?
13:20:16 [danbri]
makes sense to me too
13:20:48 [mischat]
i wrote about this recently http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/17123/1/ohara_et_al_idis_lifelogging.pdf
13:21:12 [tinkster]
DKA: Privacy and context go hand in hand. Being tagged in a photo could invade your privacy. Some regulations are EU-wide. Some similar work in US?
13:21:18 [karl]
"Privacy doesn't mean anything in isolation."
13:22:21 [tinkster]
mischat: Don't want to just look at policies. I'm a developer, so tagged technology aspect on at end.
13:22:38 [tinkster]
... can people add further comments to Wiki page.
13:22:50 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
13:22:50 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
13:22:55 [mischat]
it works danbri
13:23:31 [tinkster]
danbri: Talked to Flikr last year. One of their concerns about FOAF is reusability of data vs privacy.
13:23:32 [mischat]
i tried to allude to this in the text, but good point danbri
13:24:00 [karl]
Privacy starts when there is an observer.
13:24:13 [tinkster]
... Something on Twitter shows up on other sites very quickly. Aggregate sites.
13:24:47 [bblfish]
oops I'd like to add something to this
13:24:48 [tinkster]
DKA: danbri has an idea of a universal human right of people taking down information about themselves.
13:25:00 [mischat]
ZoneTag project used geo-tagged photos and social networks to do face detection by what was known as Yahoo research berkeley
13:25:13 [mischat]
http://zonetag.research.yahoo.com/
13:25:16 [tinkster]
danbri: One of the strongest arguments companies have about not opening up their data is privacy.
13:25:20 [oshani]
I volunteer
13:25:37 [tinkster]
ACTION oshani to document takedowns as a user story
13:25:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-10 - Document takedowns as a user story [on Oshani Seneviratne - due 2009-05-27].
13:25:44 [mischat]
:)
13:25:54 [danbri]
take downs, by which i mean "if some chunk of social web data about me happens on site x, then flows to y and z ... and then i tell site x to take it down and they do, ... how can site x communicate this to y and z...?"
13:25:56 [mib_84g3c5]
+q
13:26:11 [DKA]
ack mib
13:26:11 [tinkster]
(what danbri said)
13:26:27 [bblfish]
bblfish would like to add himself to speaker queue
13:26:29 [danbri]
oshani, is that line above a reasonable start towards user story?
13:26:36 [tinkster]
mib_84g3c5: Privacy is important, but portability is too. Shouldn't ignore one at expense of other.
13:27:18 [karl]
danbri, could you detail a bit more
13:27:20 [oshani]
danbri, we are working on something called "Propagators" with Sussman these days... it sounds like the same idea
13:27:25 [DKA]
Maybe it should be renamed "Context and Privacy"
13:27:26 [oshani]
so yes
13:27:45 [tinkster]
... We want to be able to share context in an open, re-usable way.
13:28:00 [mischat]
how is context different than any other form of data ?
13:28:01 [tinkster]
DKA: agreed. Must look at both topics.
13:28:09 [AlexKorth]
mib_84g3c: no, privacy is not sdedecracy but control over data reach. thus, these aspects are inclu
13:28:16 [mischat]
zakim, unmute me
13:28:16 [Zakim]
mischat should no longer be muted
13:28:17 [DKA]
ack mis
13:28:35 [bblfish]
I am on speaker queue, or I don't know how to get onto it
13:28:40 [AlexKorth]
* mib_84g3c: no, privacy is not secrecy but control over data reach. thus, these aspects are included
13:28:45 [tinkster]
mischat: How is context different than any other form of data? Privacy vs sharing context == privacy vs sharing other data.
13:28:47 [karl]
q+
13:28:53 [karl]
ack karl
13:28:54 [DKA]
ack karl
13:28:56 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
13:28:57 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
13:28:58 [bblfish]
q+
13:29:06 [oshani]
danbri, with takedowns, we are assuming a push-based model, isn't it?
13:29:17 [danbri]
i was trying not to assume a particular protocol model
13:29:28 [uldis]
"Data Republishing on the Social Web" touches the subject of propagation (http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-447/paper8.pdf)
13:29:30 [danbri]
downstream sites might have responsibility to poll the source
13:29:43 [oshani]
okay so both push and pull
13:29:58 [danbri]
(i'll meet marc canter for a beer tommorrow btw, he might know what some companies are doing)
13:29:59 [tinkster]
karl: Possibility for people to remove data / control data lifetime. DRM is related topic. Right now, there's very little possibility for people to remove data.
13:30:31 [DKA]
ack bblfish
13:30:42 [tinkster]
DKA: Yes, important issue, but this isn't the only aspect we need to discuss. Henry...
13:31:01 [danbri]
the push/pull aspect is part technology or protocol (even if non-computery) ... but the user story i think should be mostly at the level "Hey, i took this off the Web here ,... why is it still on the Web here here and here...." (without trying to specify some kind of impossibly complete DRM-for-people-data)
13:31:08 [tinkster]
bblfish: if two people say the same thing, depending on who says it, it can take on a different meaning.
13:31:44 [tinkster]
... If I say that I' a good worker, it doesn't have the same authority as if my employer says it.
13:31:51 [mischat]
agreed bblfish
13:31:58 [oshani]
danbri, agreed
13:32:06 [tinkster]
... Can we work this in?
13:32:11 [mischat]
q+
13:32:15 [tinkster]
DKA: We need to have a user story for this.
13:32:19 [danbri]
bblfish "freedom of expression is important ... to express what they want to say ... but need to keep track of who-said-what"
13:32:20 [DKA]
ack misch
13:33:16 [tinkster]
mischat: Following on from Henry. Hassan something was thought by authorities to be a terrorist. They had lots of third-party facts.
13:33:38 [tinkster]
... But he had IP addresses, context info that he could use as an alibi.
13:33:44 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
13:33:44 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
13:34:03 [tinkster]
tinkster: "Providence" is the word to sum this up.
13:34:04 [AlexKorth]
so that's related to trust, right
13:34:06 [danbri]
(mischat, can you spell his name? wouldn't want to match him against the wrong person ...)
13:34:16 [mischat]
yeah i getting a link now
13:34:21 [bblfish]
there is the notion of speech acts
13:34:27 [bblfish]
to be taken into account
13:34:44 [mischat]
I talked about him in this http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/17123/1/ohara_et_al_idis_lifelogging.pdf , this is his personal website http://trackingtransience.net/
13:34:51 [tinkster]
DKA: General consensus that context and privacy belong as one TF and Portability separate.
13:35:06 [tinkster]
... We need to decide this and who will lead them.
13:35:14 [karl]
zakim, unmute me
13:35:14 [Zakim]
karl was not muted, karl
13:35:38 [mischat]
For example, an art professor at Rutgers, Hasan Elahi, who was arrested in
13:35:38 [mischat]
2002 on serious terrorism allegations despite being absolutely innocent of any
13:35:38 [mischat]
criminal or terrorist activity, has taken to lifelogging and posting the information on
13:35:39 [mischat]
the Web as a pre-emptive alibi
13:35:47 [tinkster]
karl: What would be the deliverables for the TFs? A document? A section for the general report?
13:35:59 [mischat]
For example, an art professor at Rutgers, Hasan Elahi, who was arrested in 2002 on serious terrorism allegations despite being absolutely innocent of any criminal or terrorist activity, has taken to lifelogging and posting the information on
13:35:59 [mischat]
the Web as a pre-emptive alibi.
13:36:24 [DKA]
q?
13:36:32 [tinkster]
DKA: The deliverable should be something which flows into XG report.
13:36:36 [tinkster]
danbri: agrees.
13:37:09 [danbri]
all kinds of other goodness might come out of TFs, ... but they should always keep in mind we need good materials for our final publication
13:37:17 [tinkster]
DKA: Once we set up a task force, the leader would need to set up discussions and generally lead the TF, but somebody else might be assigned as editor for the TF's deliverables.
13:37:35 [mischat]
are there templates for these things ?
13:37:52 [danbri]
(no templates yet afaik)
13:38:08 [tinkster]
karl: A template would help a lot.
13:38:49 [tinkster]
... We need user stories, what kind of solutions could exist.
13:38:55 [mischat]
cool
13:38:57 [DKA]
This is an example xg report, for web content labels (which flowed into POWDER): http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/wcl/XGR-report/
13:39:15 [tinkster]
ACTION karl to produce a template for TF deliverables.
13:39:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-11 - Produce a template for TF deliverables. [on Karl Dubost - due 2009-05-27].
13:39:53 [danbri]
i've added takedown text from here into http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Document_Takedowns.3F_Propagators
13:40:14 [tinkster]
DKA: Good example XG report - http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/wcl/XGR-report/ - we need TF chairs, but also good wordsmiths.
13:40:21 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has joined #swxg
13:40:48 [tinkster]
DKA: Can we talk about invited guests, now?
13:40:56 [mischat]
so what are the task forces?
13:41:25 [AlexKorth]
TFs: fine
13:41:27 [DKA]
"Context & Privacy" , "Data Portability & Architectures"
13:41:37 [danbri]
(1 mins, looking for a link)
13:42:16 [tinkster]
DKA: Proposed TFs : "Context & Privacy" , "Data Portability & Architectures". Also Christine has offered to lead work on business and landscape, which are part of work of XG, not a TF.
13:42:39 [oshani]
+1 to the 2 task forces
13:42:41 [AlexPassant]
+1
13:42:43 [DKA]
+1
13:42:44 [mischat]
+1
13:42:47 [AlexKorth]
+1
13:42:48 [mib_84g3c5]
+1
13:42:50 [pchampin]
+1
13:42:51 [tinkster]
tinkster: I'm happy with these. Architectures = Distrib Arch, right?
13:42:53 [danbri]
q+ to store links re invited guests ... http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests and http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics
13:42:54 [danbri]
+1
13:43:07 [wonsuk]
+1 for 2 TF
13:43:23 [uldis]
+1
13:43:24 [mischat]
danbri: I put in the "Data Protection" user story in a rush this morning, I wanted to hint at what you have put placeholders for, so please feel free to remove/mangle as appropriate
13:43:28 [DKA]
ack dan
13:43:28 [Zakim]
danbri, you wanted to store links re invited guests ... http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests and
13:43:30 [Zakim]
... http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics
13:43:30 [tinkster]
DKA: People should think about whether they want to lead.
13:43:35 [tinkster]
TOPIC: invited guests
13:44:05 [tinkster]
danbri: There's two pages on Wiki - Invited Guests page.
13:44:13 [tinkster]
... contributed by Harry, cleaned by danbri.
13:44:33 [mischat]
i have added in some people in context and privacy (people should feel free to delete as appropriate)
13:44:48 [tinkster]
... Other page is DiscussionTopics. Better to discuss specific topics than just bringing people in for open-ended talks.
13:45:27 [tinkster]
... First topic suggested is widget platforms. Can we do something useful here by putting people in touch who aren't currently working with each other?
13:45:51 [tinkster]
... vCard/PortableContext/FOAF is another one suggested by Harry.
13:45:53 [mischat]
perhaps I should move the privacy and context stuff out....
13:46:31 [tinkster]
DKA: Involved with widgets. This is something we should look at, but after Widgets F2F, 9-11 June.
13:46:32 [danbri]
DKA: art barstow pushed this (widgets discussion) til after their f2f ... 9th to 11th june
13:47:09 [tinkster]
DKA: We should have someone from Opera represented as a guest.
13:47:17 [tinkster]
danbri: I could chase Chaals.
13:47:48 [tinkster]
DKA: Mark (?) would with Chaals and might be a candidate.
13:48:01 [tinkster]
ACTION danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets.
13:48:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-12 - Find someone from Opera to talk Widgets. [on Dan Brickley - due 2009-05-27].
13:49:02 [tinkster]
danbri: Not completely convinced that vCard discussion is best way of doing this. Would be happy if everyone used FOAF, but that might be a conflict of interest.
13:49:17 [mischat]
hehe
13:49:17 [tinkster]
danbri: When is the right stage to bring in non-RDF-converts?
13:49:19 [AlexKorth]
kick-out music
13:49:25 [karl]
ooooh it is the music of the group!
13:49:28 [danbri]
zakim, who is speaking?
13:49:31 [uldis]
yeah, we have music! :)
13:49:35 [AlexPassant]
wow :-)
13:49:35 [tinkster]
The official SWXG anthem is playing again.
13:49:36 [bblfish]
yes, we had that before
13:49:37 [danbri]
ok everyone be quiet
13:49:39 [Zakim]
danbri, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (56%), danbri (18%), HenryStory (94%)
13:49:46 [danbri]
henry?
13:49:48 [DKA]
zakim, mute bbl
13:49:48 [Zakim]
sorry, DKA, I do not know which phone connection belongs to bbl
13:49:48 [bblfish]
yes
13:49:50 [AdamB]
it must be our theme song
13:49:51 [danbri]
zakim, mute henrystory
13:49:51 [Zakim]
HenryStory should now be muted
13:49:56 [bblfish]
?
13:49:58 [danbri]
busted!
13:50:03 [uldis]
:D
13:50:03 [bblfish]
????
13:50:05 [karl]
ahah!
13:50:06 [AlexKorth]
-1 on music
13:50:08 [bblfish]
It's not me
13:50:09 [danbri]
zakim, unmute henrystory
13:50:09 [Zakim]
HenryStory should no longer be muted
13:50:15 [danbri]
zakim, mute henrystory
13:50:15 [Zakim]
HenryStory should now be muted
13:50:19 [mischat]
hehe
13:50:25 [tinkster]
bblfish: I'm not music source.
13:50:28 [AdamB]
henrystory is our official composer
13:50:32 [tinkster]
Everyone else: yes, you are.
13:50:57 [tinkster]
DKA: is it our role to get groups to work out their problems in our conference calls?
13:51:04 [karl]
I wonder if henrystory music enters in the privacy & context section.
13:51:10 [bblfish]
very difficult to proove my innocence....
13:51:38 [tinkster]
danbri: very different dynamics between "protocol people" and "schema people". RDF world allows various different schemas to play in one model.
13:52:10 [tinkster]
... Protocol work is more about software architecture.
13:52:50 [tinkster]
tinkster: FOAF could certainly benefit from some vCard stuff. (tel, adr)
13:52:56 [AlexKorth]
does TF "Data Portability & Architectures" end up with protocol and exchange format recommendations anyway?
13:53:10 [danbri]
can it be done as fact-finding exercise? with some template ...
13:53:18 [danbri]
eg. issues faced, opportunities, plans, ....?
13:53:21 [tinkster]
DKA: wants to avoid conference calls entirely consisting of arguments between two external groups.
13:53:27 [bblfish]
these vocabs probably all fit together one way or another
13:53:33 [mischat]
i wonder if we should invite experts when we have some good questions ready ?
13:53:45 [tinkster]
... But good to identify communities working on same problem but in isolation.
13:54:24 [AlexKorth]
mischat, right. we should collect and agree on questions for our guests.
13:54:26 [tinkster]
... Wiki page for discovering overlapping topics/communities.
13:54:59 [tinkster]
danbri: Can we have a template for collecting info from communities "what have you achieved over last year? what problems have you had?"
13:55:09 [Zakim]
- +1.510.931.aabb
13:55:15 [karl]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:55:21 [karl]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:55:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html karl
13:55:42 [tinkster]
danbri: Anyone think this is useful? Do you have any ideas about what these templates should look like?
13:55:49 [mischat]
i think it is a good idea, i wouldn't know where to start with template
13:55:50 [danbri]
[sound of silence]
13:55:57 [pchampin]
just like mischat :)
13:56:38 [danbri]
action: danbri sketch a 5 line template for interaction with other groups (cf InvitedExperts, DiscussionTopics)
13:56:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-13 - Sketch a 5 line template for interaction with other groups (cf InvitedExperts, DiscussionTopics) [on Dan Brickley - due 2009-05-27].
13:56:45 [tinkster]
DKA: Coming to end of hour. AOB?
13:56:59 [danbri]
zakim, who is muted?
13:56:59 [Zakim]
I see tinkster, oshani, mischat, HenryStory, pchampin, uldis muted
13:57:00 [AlexPassant]
q+ to ask about SPARQL WG liaison
13:57:04 [tinkster]
... proposal about changing time of meeting?
13:57:37 [tinkster]
... Two hour meeting, with second hour for a task force. We should defer this until TFs established.
13:57:38 [mischat]
can we have section in the wiki for the task forces ? I could move the text i wrote to that section from the http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics section
13:57:44 [DKA]
ack alex
13:57:44 [Zakim]
AlexPassant, you wanted to ask about SPARQL WG liaison
13:58:17 [danbri]
there was a lot of b/g noise there
13:58:18 [tinkster]
AlexPassant: Should we have a liason with SPARQL WG?
13:58:37 [tinkster]
... Alex can act as a liason.
13:58:39 [Zakim]
-pchampin
13:58:43 [pchampin]
pchampin has left #swxg
13:58:54 [mischat]
nope
13:58:55 [danbri]
re liaison with SPARQL ,are there specific technical scenarios that are relevant to the two groups? eg. 1. Oauth for SPARQL protocol 2. SPARQL extensions for social graph analytics
13:59:02 [tinkster]
DKA: Yes, this seems useful. Can this go on the Wiki. We need a liason wiki page.
13:59:08 [mischat]
and the federated sparql query ?
13:59:11 [danbri]
do those examples make sense'
13:59:15 [danbri]
yep and federated
13:59:23 [danbri]
s/'/?/
13:59:28 [mischat]
yes
13:59:29 [tinkster]
ACTION AlexPassant to create a liasons list on the Wiki and list himself for SPARQL.
13:59:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-14 - Create a liasons list on the Wiki and list himself for SPARQL. [on Alexandre Passant - due 2009-05-27].
13:59:32 [Zakim]
-renato
13:59:36 [tinkster]
Bye!
13:59:40 [karl]
zakim, bye
13:59:40 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.314.705.aaaa, karl, tinkster, AlexPassant, oshani, DKA, AdamB, mischat, renato, Hakan, AlexKorth?, danbri, HenryStory, pchampin,
13:59:40 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swxg
13:59:41 [AlexKorth]
bye all
13:59:43 [mib_84g3c5]
bye
13:59:43 [danbri]
zakim, unmute henrystory
13:59:44 [Zakim]
... +1.510.931.aabb, uldis
13:59:45 [mischat]
bye all
13:59:45 [tinkster]
Don't know where, don't know when.
13:59:45 [uldis]
thanks
13:59:48 [AdamB]
bye
14:00:06 [tinkster]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:00:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html tinkster
14:00:20 [mischat]
danbri: I will take an action to move the privacy text from your DiscussionTopics
14:00:29 [danbri]
zakim, drop danbri
14:00:45 [mischat]
karl: would be nice to hear your views on the privacy/context stuff on the wiki, being the task force lead and all
14:00:49 [AlexPassant]
danbri mischat : status of current SPARQL features proposed by the WG after the first F2F http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2009/05/19/sparql_working_group_holds_1st_face_to_f
14:01:03 [mischat]
yeah, i have seen that
14:01:08 [karl]
mischat: will do that today :)
14:01:15 [mischat]
karl: great
14:01:18 [danbri]
mischat, oh it's fine there ... i was just suprised to see the page grew :)
14:01:19 [AlexPassant]
danbri: oauth would make sens for the protocol and update, indeed
14:01:23 [tinkster]
Chair: DKA
14:01:29 [mischat]
swh once again apologies for not being here
14:01:41 [tinkster]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:01:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html tinkster
14:01:44 [mischat]
he is another person which will join this talks, and is on the sparql WG too
14:01:47 [danbri]
the rough idea for that page originally, ... was that we should collected topical themes before pulling in outsiders
14:02:06 [danbri]
ideally with specific questions or concrete issues that conclusions might be reached around
14:02:21 [mischat]
sure
14:02:23 [mischat]
that makes sense
14:02:31 [mischat]
i will tidy up the markup
14:02:41 [danbri]
crap i'm still in zakim even
14:02:44 [mischat]
wrote it in a hurry, right bye for now, back to coding :)
14:02:46 [danbri]
zakim, drop me
14:02:51 [mischat]
zakim, drop me
14:02:53 [mischat]
bye all
14:03:10 [danbri]
bye all!
14:04:39 [mischat]
mischat has joined #swxg
14:05:59 [tinkster]
i/DKA: Discussion of task forces. Lots about this last week. Two proposals from last meeting./TOPIC: Task forces
14:06:06 [tinkster]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:06:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html tinkster
14:06:36 [oshani_]
oshani_ has joined #swxg
14:07:07 [tinkster]
s/TOPIC: invited/TOPIC: Invited/
14:07:34 [tinkster]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:07:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html tinkster
14:08:29 [tinkster]
i/AlexPassant, you wanted to ask about SPARQL WG liaison/TOPIC: Liasons with other groups/
14:09:02 [tinkster]
i/DKA: Coming to end of hour. AOB/TOPIC: Any other business/
14:09:36 [uldis]
uldis has left #swxg
14:10:14 [tinkster]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:10:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html tinkster
14:12:41 [tinkster]
s/^ACTION /ACTION: /g
14:12:51 [tinkster]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:12:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html tinkster
14:14:20 [tinkster]
s/ACTION /ACTION: /g
14:14:26 [tinkster]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:14:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html tinkster
14:15:57 [tinkster]
Seems to be there to me. Hit reload?
14:16:29 [oshani_]
tinkster, yes now I see it
14:16:30 [oshani_]
thanks
14:18:08 [tinkster]
Regrets: Harry Halpin, Peter Ferne, Ronald P. Reck, Christine Perey, Jeff Sonstein, Joaquin Salvachua, Lubna Dajani
14:18:20 [tinkster]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:18:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html tinkster
14:19:32 [tinkster]
OK, I'm done with them. Feel free to make further adjustments, finalise.
14:20:02 [yuk]
yuk has joined #swxg
14:22:59 [yuk]
so it is cancelled right?
14:23:14 [tinkster]
You've missed it.
14:26:32 [yuk]
no...
14:44:01 [FabGandon]
FabGandon has joined #swxg
14:47:14 [mischat]
tinkster: good job sending that email around
14:47:26 [mischat]
re : timing
15:06:54 [raphael]
raphael has left #swxg
15:49:48 [FabGandon]
FabGandon has left #swxg
16:08:07 [bblfish]
bblfish has joined #swxg
16:10:15 [danbri]
danbri has joined #swxg
16:34:27 [mischat_]
mischat_ has joined #swxg
18:38:28 [mischat]
mischat has joined #swxg
19:58:36 [bblfish]
bblfish has joined #swxg
20:20:54 [karl]
karl has joined #swxg
20:59:28 [mischat]
mischat has joined #swxg
23:04:39 [bblfish]
bblfish has joined #swxg