IRC log of mediafrag on 2009-05-20
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 11:55:44 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
- 11:55:44 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc
- 11:55:46 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 11:55:46 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #mediafrag
- 11:55:48 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
- 11:55:48 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
- 11:55:49 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
- 11:55:49 [trackbot]
- Date: 20 May 2009
- 11:56:07 [mhausenblas]
- Chair: Raphael
- 11:56:12 [mhausenblas]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0029.html
- 11:56:17 [mhausenblas]
- Previous: 2009-05-13 http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc
- 11:56:23 [mhausenblas]
- regrets+ Erik
- 11:56:29 [mhausenblas]
- rrsagent, make record public
- 11:56:33 [davy]
- davy has joined #mediafrag
- 11:56:36 [mhausenblas]
- Scribenick: mhausenblas
- 11:56:41 [mhausenblas]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 11:56:41 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 11:58:37 [Zakim]
- IA_MFWG()8:00AM has now started
- 11:58:44 [Zakim]
- +raphael
- 11:59:12 [Zakim]
- +??P1
- 11:59:21 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, ??P1 is me
- 11:59:21 [Zakim]
- +mhausenblas; got it
- 11:59:48 [Zakim]
- + +0329331aaaa
- 12:00:00 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, aaaa is davy
- 12:00:00 [Zakim]
- +davy; got it
- 12:00:14 [mhausenblas]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:00:14 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 12:01:07 [conrad]
- heh
- 12:01:45 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, who's here?
- 12:01:45 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see raphael, mhausenblas, davy
- 12:01:46 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see davy, Zakim, RRSAgent, nessy, conrad, raphael, Gui, mhausenblas, trackbot, Yves
- 12:02:02 [jackjansen]
- jackjansen has joined #mediafrag
- 12:02:35 [jackjansen]
- on my way
- 12:02:41 [jackjansen]
- zakim, code?
- 12:02:41 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jackjansen
- 12:03:12 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 12:03:21 [Zakim]
- +cleophas
- 12:03:41 [Zakim]
- +silvia
- 12:03:52 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, ??P8 is conrad
- 12:03:52 [Zakim]
- +conrad; got it
- 12:03:54 [Gui]
- zakim, cleophas is gui
- 12:03:54 [Zakim]
- +gui; got it
- 12:03:57 [silvia]
- zakim, mute me
- 12:03:57 [Zakim]
- silvia should now be muted
- 12:04:00 [Zakim]
- + +20592aabb
- 12:04:09 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, aabb is jackjansen
- 12:04:09 [Zakim]
- +jackjansen; got it
- 12:04:16 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, who's here?
- 12:04:16 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see raphael, mhausenblas, davy, conrad, gui, silvia (muted), jackjansen
- 12:04:19 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see jackjansen, davy, Zakim, RRSAgent, silvia, conrad, raphael, Gui, mhausenblas, trackbot, Yves
- 12:04:55 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: ADMIN
- 12:05:12 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 13 May 2009 telecon:
- 12:05:18 [mhausenblas]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html
- 12:05:24 [davy]
- +1
- 12:05:27 [mhausenblas]
- +1
- 12:05:29 [raphael]
- +1
- 12:05:29 [Gui]
- +1
- 12:05:36 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: minutes approved
- 12:05:45 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION-66
- 12:05:48 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION-66?
- 12:05:49 [trackbot]
- ACTION-66 -- Jack Jansen to look at the organisation of the 4th F2F meeting in Amsterdam on September 17-18 (just after IBC) -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN
- 12:05:49 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/66
- 12:05:56 [mhausenblas]
- close ACTION-66
- 12:05:56 [trackbot]
- ACTION-66 Look at the organisation of the 4th F2F meeting in Amsterdam on September 17-18 (just after IBC) closed
- 12:06:30 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: what shall we do jackjansen?
- 12:06:57 [mhausenblas]
- jackjansen: not so much in a hurry. after IBC things here in A'dam are normal again
- 12:07:01 [silvia]
- zakim, unmute me
- 12:07:01 [Zakim]
- silvia should no longer be muted
- 12:07:04 [mhausenblas]
- ... that is we can wait a bit
- 12:07:22 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: so we can wait till end of June
- 12:08:01 [mhausenblas]
- jackjansen: silvia, we didn't pick the slot due to IBC in the first place
- 12:08:11 [silvia]
- zakim, mute me
- 12:08:11 [Zakim]
- silvia should now be muted
- 12:08:15 [mhausenblas]
- ... but we wanted to have somethin in 09/2009
- 12:08:28 [silvia]
- zakim, unmute me
- 12:08:28 [Zakim]
- silvia should no longer be muted
- 12:08:41 [mhausenblas]
- jackjansen: other question. is any other place/time doable for the Aussies/SAfricans?
- 12:09:13 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: alternative proposal was SAMT09, Graz, Austria
- 12:09:48 [Gui]
- zakim, mute me
- 12:09:48 [Zakim]
- gui should now be muted
- 12:10:19 [mhausenblas]
- Michael: not sure if it makes sense to rehash that topic
- 12:10:53 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: we will ensure to have more virtual meetings as well
- 12:11:40 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: the September meeting is still an option
- 12:11:47 [mhausenblas]
- ... will be decided by end of June
- 12:12:04 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: UC & REQUIREMENTS
- 12:12:18 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: no progress so far, will be done ASAP
- 12:12:23 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: SPECIFICATION
- 12:12:30 [conrad]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_HTTP_Communication#Conrad.27s_proposal
- 12:12:42 [mhausenblas]
- UA Server HTTP Communication (Conrad/Raphael)
- 12:13:43 [mhausenblas]
- conrad explains his proposal
- 12:15:19 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: question regarding Accept-Range-Refer is similar to the original proposal?
- 12:16:19 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: how is the conversion between sec and bytes done
- 12:16:47 [Zakim]
- -conrad
- 12:16:51 [conrad]
- bah
- 12:18:25 [raphael]
- My first observation: Accept-Range-Refer ~= Accept-Ranges AND Range-refer ~= Range HTTP headers
- 12:18:53 [mhausenblas]
- Michael: same here
- 12:19:40 [Zakim]
- + +1.818.061.aacc
- 12:19:49 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, aacc is conrad
- 12:19:49 [Zakim]
- +conrad; got it
- 12:19:54 [Gui]
- what I remember from Conrad proposal is : 1. clarification on the order of feedback mechanisms and 2. more verbose HTTP headers
- 12:20:10 [Gui]
- s/feedback/fallback
- 12:20:42 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: 1. question is sec to bytes conversion
- 12:21:48 [mhausenblas]
- conrad: Server is authoritative re conversion
- 12:21:55 [Zakim]
- -conrad
- 12:22:49 [Zakim]
- + +081806143aadd
- 12:23:11 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, aadd is conrad
- 12:23:11 [Zakim]
- +conrad; got it
- 12:24:23 [mhausenblas]
- silvia: we should have a comparison of the three proposals on the table
- 12:24:43 [mhausenblas]
- ... and having Yves on board would certainly help
- 12:26:09 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: now we should focus on the # solution, move ? to the bottom
- 12:27:14 [mhausenblas]
- jackjansen: I think we should keep the two as it might help establishing backwards compatibility, right conrad?
- 12:27:17 [mhausenblas]
- conrad: correct
- 12:27:46 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: ok, but we still need an overview table comparing the proposals
- 12:28:22 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: I also miss the number of roundtrips
- 12:28:31 [mhausenblas]
- ... seems always one, no?
- 12:28:56 [mhausenblas]
- conrad: no, there are further requests
- 12:29:36 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION-63?
- 12:29:36 [trackbot]
- ACTION-63 -- Conrad Parker to update the Wiki with his more general approach with precisely the same examples -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN
- 12:29:36 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/63
- 12:30:13 [mhausenblas]
- jackjansen: please give also a rational for it, esp. re the use cases you have in mind
- 12:30:36 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION: Conrad to provide some rational and use cases for his proposal
- 12:30:36 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-80 - Provide some rational and use cases for his proposal [on Conrad Parker - due 2009-05-27].
- 12:30:48 [raphael]
- s/rational/rationale
- 12:30:56 [mhausenblas]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:30:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 12:31:12 [silvia]
- s/rational/rationale/
- 12:31:30 [jackjansen]
- s/ups/oops
- 12:31:35 [jackjansen]
- :-)
- 12:31:37 [mhausenblas]
- UA MF Resolution and Processing: (Michael)
- 12:31:43 [mhausenblas]
- work continues
- 12:32:11 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: so we continue to discuss via email
- 12:32:12 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: TEST CASES (Michael)
- 12:32:23 [conrad]
- Zakim, mute me
- 12:32:25 [Zakim]
- conrad should now be muted
- 12:32:33 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: we started to go through the TC last week
- 12:32:51 [mhausenblas]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases
- 12:32:54 [jackjansen]
- url?
- 12:33:13 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION-79?
- 12:33:13 [trackbot]
- ACTION-79 -- Michael Hausenblas to summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page -- due 2009-05-20 -- OPEN
- 12:33:13 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/79
- 12:33:20 [mhausenblas]
- close ACTION-79
- 12:33:20 [trackbot]
- ACTION-79 Summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page closed
- 12:33:34 [mhausenblas]
- Michael: see http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCasesDiscussion
- 12:34:15 [mhausenblas]
- PROPOSAL: In case an 'empty response' (such as found in TC0002-0006) occurs, the origin server MUST send an HTTP 416 status code if and only if the fragment range was given in an HTTP Range request header, otherwise a HTTP 406 status code MUST be send.
- 12:36:55 [jackjansen]
- q+
- 12:37:18 [mhausenblas]
- Michael: beside not knowing of other usages of 416/406 ...
- 12:37:25 [mhausenblas]
- ack jackjansen
- 12:37:44 [mhausenblas]
- jackjansen: has it already been decided?
- 12:38:04 [mhausenblas]
- s/decided/decided to be 4xx?
- 12:38:27 [conrad]
- :)
- 12:39:10 [Zakim]
- -conrad
- 12:39:52 [mhausenblas]
- jackjansen: why not using 204?
- 12:40:16 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 12:40:34 [conrad]
- Zakim, P8 is conrad
- 12:40:34 [Zakim]
- sorry, conrad, I do not recognize a party named 'P8'
- 12:40:57 [conrad]
- Zakim, ??P8 is conrad
- 12:40:57 [Zakim]
- +conrad; got it
- 12:41:03 [conrad]
- Zakim, mute me
- 12:41:03 [Zakim]
- conrad should now be muted
- 12:42:02 [davy]
- I think range 20-10 is the same error as 0-0 if we specify that the start has to be smaller than the end
- 12:42:08 [raphael]
- Discussion about what *is* an empty fragment?
- 12:42:21 [raphael]
- 204: a valid fragment but no content
- 12:42:32 [raphael]
- 4xx: an error, because the UA has nothing to present
- 12:42:32 [Zakim]
- -conrad
- 12:43:11 [conrad]
- yeah :-(
- 12:44:24 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION: Michael to update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list
- 12:44:24 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-81 - Update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-05-27].
- 12:45:02 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: ISSUES
- 12:45:09 [mhausenblas]
- ISSUE-3?
- 12:45:09 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-3 -- Does our MF URI syntax imply that we need to update MIME Type registrations? -- OPEN
- 12:45:09 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3
- 12:45:19 [mhausenblas]
- ISSUE-4 ?
- 12:45:23 [mhausenblas]
- ISSUE-4?
- 12:45:27 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, who's here?
- 12:45:27 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see raphael, mhausenblas, davy (muted), gui (muted), silvia (muted), jackjansen
- 12:45:30 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see jackjansen, davy, Zakim, RRSAgent, silvia, conrad, raphael, Gui, mhausenblas, trackbot, Yves
- 12:45:43 [raphael]
- ACTION-73?
- 12:45:43 [trackbot]
- ACTION-73 -- Conrad Parker to change the phrasing of the issue 4 (just audio/video)? -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN
- 12:45:43 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/73
- 12:45:44 [mhausenblas]
- conrad, re issue no. 4?
- 12:46:30 [conrad]
- ok
- 12:47:08 [mhausenblas]
- ISSUE-9?
- 12:47:08 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-9 -- Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases? -- OPEN
- 12:47:08 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9
- 12:47:34 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION: Michael to flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9
- 12:47:34 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-82 - Flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-05-27].
- 12:47:42 [conrad]
- issue-4: so i think we discussed not predefining lots of track names, but perhaps predefining "audio" and "video" only: in which case action 73 would be to change issue 4 to "Should we predefine track names for audio and video"
- 12:47:42 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-4 Should we pre-define some track names? notes added
- 12:47:47 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: IMPLEMENTATION
- 12:48:27 [mhausenblas]
- raphael: to push implementations we need the proposals a bit better discussed
- 12:48:44 [mhausenblas]
- ... all actions here continue
- 12:48:53 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: AOB
- 12:49:02 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 12:49:02 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 12:49:29 [mhausenblas]
- [adjourned]
- 12:49:44 [Gui]
- thanks, bye
- 12:49:47 [Zakim]
- -jackjansen
- 12:49:49 [Zakim]
- -raphael
- 12:49:50 [conrad]
- thanks all
- 12:49:50 [Zakim]
- -mhausenblas
- 12:49:52 [Zakim]
- -davy
- 12:49:53 [Zakim]
- -silvia
- 12:49:57 [mhausenblas]
- zakim, list attendees
- 12:49:57 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, silvia, conrad, gui, +20592aabb, jackjansen, +1.818.061.aacc, +081806143aadd
- 12:50:07 [mhausenblas]
- silvia: good idea
- 12:50:30 [mhausenblas]
- just send an email to the list with subject [MF-TC] or so proposing it
- 12:50:37 [mhausenblas]
- I'll add it to the Wiki then, ok?
- 12:50:44 [silvia]
- cool
- 12:50:49 [mhausenblas]
- ta
- 12:50:56 [mhausenblas]
- rrsagent, please draft minutes
- 12:50:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 12:51:52 [raphael]
- OK, let's Michael starting the thread discussion on the mailing list for all arguing :-)
- 12:51:56 [mhausenblas]
- +1
- 12:51:58 [mhausenblas]
- :)
- 12:53:05 [raphael]
- manually
- 12:53:07 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, bye
- 12:53:07 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, silvia, conrad, gui, +20592aabb, jackjansen, +1.818.061.aacc, +081806143aadd
- 12:53:07 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #mediafrag
- 12:53:18 [mhausenblas]
- rrsagent, bye
- 12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
- 12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Conrad to provide some rational and use cases for his proposal [1]
- 12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc#T12-30-36
- 12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Michael to update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list [2]
- 12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc#T12-44-24
- 12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Michael to flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 [3]
- 12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc#T12-47-34