IRC log of mediafrag on 2009-05-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:55:44 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
11:55:44 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc
11:55:46 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
11:55:46 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #mediafrag
11:55:48 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
11:55:48 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
11:55:49 [trackbot]
Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
11:55:49 [trackbot]
Date: 20 May 2009
11:56:07 [mhausenblas]
Chair: Raphael
11:56:12 [mhausenblas]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0029.html
11:56:17 [mhausenblas]
Previous: 2009-05-13 http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc
11:56:23 [mhausenblas]
regrets+ Erik
11:56:29 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, make record public
11:56:33 [davy]
davy has joined #mediafrag
11:56:36 [mhausenblas]
Scribenick: mhausenblas
11:56:41 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:56:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
11:58:37 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()8:00AM has now started
11:58:44 [Zakim]
+raphael
11:59:12 [Zakim]
+??P1
11:59:21 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
11:59:21 [Zakim]
+mhausenblas; got it
11:59:48 [Zakim]
+ +0329331aaaa
12:00:00 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aaaa is davy
12:00:00 [Zakim]
+davy; got it
12:00:14 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:00:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:01:07 [conrad]
heh
12:01:45 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
12:01:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see raphael, mhausenblas, davy
12:01:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see davy, Zakim, RRSAgent, nessy, conrad, raphael, Gui, mhausenblas, trackbot, Yves
12:02:02 [jackjansen]
jackjansen has joined #mediafrag
12:02:35 [jackjansen]
on my way
12:02:41 [jackjansen]
zakim, code?
12:02:41 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jackjansen
12:03:12 [Zakim]
+??P8
12:03:21 [Zakim]
+cleophas
12:03:41 [Zakim]
+silvia
12:03:52 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, ??P8 is conrad
12:03:52 [Zakim]
+conrad; got it
12:03:54 [Gui]
zakim, cleophas is gui
12:03:54 [Zakim]
+gui; got it
12:03:57 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:03:57 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:04:00 [Zakim]
+ +20592aabb
12:04:09 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aabb is jackjansen
12:04:09 [Zakim]
+jackjansen; got it
12:04:16 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
12:04:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see raphael, mhausenblas, davy, conrad, gui, silvia (muted), jackjansen
12:04:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jackjansen, davy, Zakim, RRSAgent, silvia, conrad, raphael, Gui, mhausenblas, trackbot, Yves
12:04:55 [mhausenblas]
Topic: ADMIN
12:05:12 [mhausenblas]
raphael: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 13 May 2009 telecon:
12:05:18 [mhausenblas]
http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html
12:05:24 [davy]
+1
12:05:27 [mhausenblas]
+1
12:05:29 [raphael]
+1
12:05:29 [Gui]
+1
12:05:36 [mhausenblas]
raphael: minutes approved
12:05:45 [mhausenblas]
ACTION-66
12:05:48 [mhausenblas]
ACTION-66?
12:05:49 [trackbot]
ACTION-66 -- Jack Jansen to look at the organisation of the 4th F2F meeting in Amsterdam on September 17-18 (just after IBC) -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN
12:05:49 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/66
12:05:56 [mhausenblas]
close ACTION-66
12:05:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-66 Look at the organisation of the 4th F2F meeting in Amsterdam on September 17-18 (just after IBC) closed
12:06:30 [mhausenblas]
raphael: what shall we do jackjansen?
12:06:57 [mhausenblas]
jackjansen: not so much in a hurry. after IBC things here in A'dam are normal again
12:07:01 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:07:01 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:07:04 [mhausenblas]
... that is we can wait a bit
12:07:22 [mhausenblas]
raphael: so we can wait till end of June
12:08:01 [mhausenblas]
jackjansen: silvia, we didn't pick the slot due to IBC in the first place
12:08:11 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:08:11 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:08:15 [mhausenblas]
... but we wanted to have somethin in 09/2009
12:08:28 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:08:28 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:08:41 [mhausenblas]
jackjansen: other question. is any other place/time doable for the Aussies/SAfricans?
12:09:13 [mhausenblas]
raphael: alternative proposal was SAMT09, Graz, Austria
12:09:48 [Gui]
zakim, mute me
12:09:48 [Zakim]
gui should now be muted
12:10:19 [mhausenblas]
Michael: not sure if it makes sense to rehash that topic
12:10:53 [mhausenblas]
raphael: we will ensure to have more virtual meetings as well
12:11:40 [mhausenblas]
raphael: the September meeting is still an option
12:11:47 [mhausenblas]
... will be decided by end of June
12:12:04 [mhausenblas]
Topic: UC & REQUIREMENTS
12:12:18 [mhausenblas]
raphael: no progress so far, will be done ASAP
12:12:23 [mhausenblas]
Topic: SPECIFICATION
12:12:30 [conrad]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_HTTP_Communication#Conrad.27s_proposal
12:12:42 [mhausenblas]
UA Server HTTP Communication (Conrad/Raphael)
12:13:43 [mhausenblas]
conrad explains his proposal
12:15:19 [mhausenblas]
raphael: question regarding Accept-Range-Refer is similar to the original proposal?
12:16:19 [mhausenblas]
raphael: how is the conversion between sec and bytes done
12:16:47 [Zakim]
-conrad
12:16:51 [conrad]
bah
12:18:25 [raphael]
My first observation: Accept-Range-Refer ~= Accept-Ranges AND Range-refer ~= Range HTTP headers
12:18:53 [mhausenblas]
Michael: same here
12:19:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.818.061.aacc
12:19:49 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aacc is conrad
12:19:49 [Zakim]
+conrad; got it
12:19:54 [Gui]
what I remember from Conrad proposal is : 1. clarification on the order of feedback mechanisms and 2. more verbose HTTP headers
12:20:10 [Gui]
s/feedback/fallback
12:20:42 [mhausenblas]
raphael: 1. question is sec to bytes conversion
12:21:48 [mhausenblas]
conrad: Server is authoritative re conversion
12:21:55 [Zakim]
-conrad
12:22:49 [Zakim]
+ +081806143aadd
12:23:11 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aadd is conrad
12:23:11 [Zakim]
+conrad; got it
12:24:23 [mhausenblas]
silvia: we should have a comparison of the three proposals on the table
12:24:43 [mhausenblas]
... and having Yves on board would certainly help
12:26:09 [mhausenblas]
raphael: now we should focus on the # solution, move ? to the bottom
12:27:14 [mhausenblas]
jackjansen: I think we should keep the two as it might help establishing backwards compatibility, right conrad?
12:27:17 [mhausenblas]
conrad: correct
12:27:46 [mhausenblas]
raphael: ok, but we still need an overview table comparing the proposals
12:28:22 [mhausenblas]
raphael: I also miss the number of roundtrips
12:28:31 [mhausenblas]
... seems always one, no?
12:28:56 [mhausenblas]
conrad: no, there are further requests
12:29:36 [mhausenblas]
ACTION-63?
12:29:36 [trackbot]
ACTION-63 -- Conrad Parker to update the Wiki with his more general approach with precisely the same examples -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN
12:29:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/63
12:30:13 [mhausenblas]
jackjansen: please give also a rational for it, esp. re the use cases you have in mind
12:30:36 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: Conrad to provide some rational and use cases for his proposal
12:30:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-80 - Provide some rational and use cases for his proposal [on Conrad Parker - due 2009-05-27].
12:30:48 [raphael]
s/rational/rationale
12:30:56 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:30:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:31:12 [silvia]
s/rational/rationale/
12:31:30 [jackjansen]
s/ups/oops
12:31:35 [jackjansen]
:-)
12:31:37 [mhausenblas]
UA MF Resolution and Processing: (Michael)
12:31:43 [mhausenblas]
work continues
12:32:11 [mhausenblas]
raphael: so we continue to discuss via email
12:32:12 [mhausenblas]
Topic: TEST CASES (Michael)
12:32:23 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
12:32:25 [Zakim]
conrad should now be muted
12:32:33 [mhausenblas]
raphael: we started to go through the TC last week
12:32:51 [mhausenblas]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases
12:32:54 [jackjansen]
url?
12:33:13 [mhausenblas]
ACTION-79?
12:33:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-79 -- Michael Hausenblas to summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page -- due 2009-05-20 -- OPEN
12:33:13 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/79
12:33:20 [mhausenblas]
close ACTION-79
12:33:20 [trackbot]
ACTION-79 Summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page closed
12:33:34 [mhausenblas]
Michael: see http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCasesDiscussion
12:34:15 [mhausenblas]
PROPOSAL: In case an 'empty response' (such as found in TC0002-0006) occurs, the origin server MUST send an HTTP 416 status code if and only if the fragment range was given in an HTTP Range request header, otherwise a HTTP 406 status code MUST be send.
12:36:55 [jackjansen]
q+
12:37:18 [mhausenblas]
Michael: beside not knowing of other usages of 416/406 ...
12:37:25 [mhausenblas]
ack jackjansen
12:37:44 [mhausenblas]
jackjansen: has it already been decided?
12:38:04 [mhausenblas]
s/decided/decided to be 4xx?
12:38:27 [conrad]
:)
12:39:10 [Zakim]
-conrad
12:39:52 [mhausenblas]
jackjansen: why not using 204?
12:40:16 [Zakim]
+??P8
12:40:34 [conrad]
Zakim, P8 is conrad
12:40:34 [Zakim]
sorry, conrad, I do not recognize a party named 'P8'
12:40:57 [conrad]
Zakim, ??P8 is conrad
12:40:57 [Zakim]
+conrad; got it
12:41:03 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
12:41:03 [Zakim]
conrad should now be muted
12:42:02 [davy]
I think range 20-10 is the same error as 0-0 if we specify that the start has to be smaller than the end
12:42:08 [raphael]
Discussion about what *is* an empty fragment?
12:42:21 [raphael]
204: a valid fragment but no content
12:42:32 [raphael]
4xx: an error, because the UA has nothing to present
12:42:32 [Zakim]
-conrad
12:43:11 [conrad]
yeah :-(
12:44:24 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: Michael to update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list
12:44:24 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-81 - Update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-05-27].
12:45:02 [mhausenblas]
Topic: ISSUES
12:45:09 [mhausenblas]
ISSUE-3?
12:45:09 [trackbot]
ISSUE-3 -- Does our MF URI syntax imply that we need to update MIME Type registrations? -- OPEN
12:45:09 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3
12:45:19 [mhausenblas]
ISSUE-4 ?
12:45:23 [mhausenblas]
ISSUE-4?
12:45:27 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
12:45:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see raphael, mhausenblas, davy (muted), gui (muted), silvia (muted), jackjansen
12:45:30 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jackjansen, davy, Zakim, RRSAgent, silvia, conrad, raphael, Gui, mhausenblas, trackbot, Yves
12:45:43 [raphael]
ACTION-73?
12:45:43 [trackbot]
ACTION-73 -- Conrad Parker to change the phrasing of the issue 4 (just audio/video)? -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN
12:45:43 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/73
12:45:44 [mhausenblas]
conrad, re issue no. 4?
12:46:30 [conrad]
ok
12:47:08 [mhausenblas]
ISSUE-9?
12:47:08 [trackbot]
ISSUE-9 -- Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases? -- OPEN
12:47:08 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9
12:47:34 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: Michael to flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9
12:47:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-82 - Flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-05-27].
12:47:42 [conrad]
issue-4: so i think we discussed not predefining lots of track names, but perhaps predefining "audio" and "video" only: in which case action 73 would be to change issue 4 to "Should we predefine track names for audio and video"
12:47:42 [trackbot]
ISSUE-4 Should we pre-define some track names? notes added
12:47:47 [mhausenblas]
Topic: IMPLEMENTATION
12:48:27 [mhausenblas]
raphael: to push implementations we need the proposals a bit better discussed
12:48:44 [mhausenblas]
... all actions here continue
12:48:53 [mhausenblas]
Topic: AOB
12:49:02 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:49:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:49:29 [mhausenblas]
[adjourned]
12:49:44 [Gui]
thanks, bye
12:49:47 [Zakim]
-jackjansen
12:49:49 [Zakim]
-raphael
12:49:50 [conrad]
thanks all
12:49:50 [Zakim]
-mhausenblas
12:49:52 [Zakim]
-davy
12:49:53 [Zakim]
-silvia
12:49:57 [mhausenblas]
zakim, list attendees
12:49:57 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, silvia, conrad, gui, +20592aabb, jackjansen, +1.818.061.aacc, +081806143aadd
12:50:07 [mhausenblas]
silvia: good idea
12:50:30 [mhausenblas]
just send an email to the list with subject [MF-TC] or so proposing it
12:50:37 [mhausenblas]
I'll add it to the Wiki then, ok?
12:50:44 [silvia]
cool
12:50:49 [mhausenblas]
ta
12:50:56 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
12:50:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:51:52 [raphael]
OK, let's Michael starting the thread discussion on the mailing list for all arguing :-)
12:51:56 [mhausenblas]
+1
12:51:58 [mhausenblas]
:)
12:53:05 [raphael]
manually
12:53:07 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, bye
12:53:07 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, silvia, conrad, gui, +20592aabb, jackjansen, +1.818.061.aacc, +081806143aadd
12:53:07 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mediafrag
12:53:18 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, bye
12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Conrad to provide some rational and use cases for his proposal [1]
12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc#T12-30-36
12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Michael to update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list [2]
12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc#T12-44-24
12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Michael to flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 [3]
12:53:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc#T12-47-34