IRC log of swxg on 2009-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:57:40 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swxg
12:57:40 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:57:43 [Zakim]
12:57:47 [Zakim]
12:58:21 [Zakim]
12:58:33 [tinkster]
zakim, mute me
12:58:47 [Zakim]
12:58:55 [Zakim]
tinkster should now be muted
12:58:55 [tinkster]
zakim, mute me
12:58:57 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P16 is me
12:59:02 [karl]
zakim, what is the code?
12:59:14 [tinkster]
12:59:15 [Zakim]
tinkster was already muted, tinkster
12:59:19 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
12:59:31 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7994 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), karl
12:59:33 [Zakim]
12:59:57 [mischat]
zakin, +??P27 is me
13:00:04 [mischat]
zakim, +??P27 is me
13:00:06 [Zakim]
13:00:07 [Zakim]
13:00:14 [Zakim]
sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+??P27'
13:00:15 [Zakim]
13:00:19 [DKA]
DKA has joined #swxg
13:00:21 [jsalvachua]
jsalvachua has joined #swxg
13:00:30 [cperey]
cperey has joined #swxg
13:00:32 [jsalvachua]
Hello, to all
13:00:39 [karl]
zakim, +??P32 is me
13:00:39 [Zakim]
sorry, karl, I do not recognize a party named '+??P32'
13:00:53 [mischat]
13:00:54 [tinkster]
harry not here yet
13:00:54 [karl]
zakim, +??P32 is karl
13:00:54 [Zakim]
sorry, karl, I do not recognize a party named '+??P32'
13:01:17 [Zakim]
13:01:26 [karl]
zakim, ??P32 is karl
13:01:28 [Zakim]
+karl; got it
13:01:28 [Zakim]
13:01:33 [dom]
zakim, mute me
13:01:33 [Zakim]
dom should now be muted
13:01:42 [petef]
petef has joined #swxg
13:01:45 [oshani]
Zakim, mit531 is me
13:01:45 [Zakim]
+oshani; got it
13:01:45 [mischat]
zakim, +??P27 is mischat
13:01:46 [Zakim]
sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+??P27'
13:01:49 [DKA]
RRSAgent, start meeting
13:01:49 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', DKA. Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:01:54 [DKA]
RRSAgent, start it up
13:01:54 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'start it up', DKA. Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:01:59 [Zakim]
13:02:04 [Zakim]
13:02:09 [DKA]
RRSAgent, this is SWXG
13:02:09 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'this is SWXG', DKA. Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:02:13 [jsalvachua]
zakim, mute me
13:02:16 [Zakim]
jsalvachua should now be muted
13:02:18 [oshani]
Zakim, mute me
13:02:22 [Zakim]
13:02:26 [Zakim]
oshani should now be muted
13:02:43 [yuk]
yuk has joined #swxg
13:02:52 [pchampin]
pchampin has joined #swxg
13:02:53 [DKA]
zakim, who's here?
13:02:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdamB, ??P5, AlexPassant, tinkster (muted), FabGandon, wonsuk, karl, oshani (muted), dom (muted), jsalvachua (muted), ??P27
13:03:05 [Zakim]
13:03:13 [Zakim]
On IRC I see pchampin, yuk, petef, cperey, jsalvachua, DKA, RRSAgent, wonsuk, Zakim, mischat, oshani, renato, melvster, claudio, AdamB, tinkster, FabGandon, karl, dom, AlexPassant,
13:03:18 [Zakim]
... mattl
13:03:24 [petef]
zakim, ??P34 is me
13:03:28 [Zakim]
13:03:34 [Zakim]
13:03:37 [mischat]
zakim, ??P27 is me
13:03:38 [Zakim]
+ +0797094aaaa - is perhaps mischat_
13:03:52 [Zakim]
+petef; got it
13:04:01 [cperey]
zakim, mute me
13:04:05 [petef]
zakim, +0797094aaaa is really me
13:04:10 [Zakim]
+ +03539149aabb
13:04:14 [Zakim]
+mischat; got it
13:04:16 [renato]
zakim, who's here?
13:04:22 [CaptSolo]
CaptSolo has joined #swxg
13:04:32 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
13:04:40 [cperey]
zakim, mute me
13:04:45 [tinkster]
No danbri either?
13:04:52 [Zakim]
cperey should now be muted
13:04:54 [Zakim]
sorry, petef, I do not recognize a party named '+0797094aaaa'
13:05:08 [yuk]
maybe it is me?
13:05:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdamB, ??P5, AlexPassant, tinkster (muted), FabGandon, wonsuk, karl, oshani (muted), dom (muted), jsalvachua (muted), mischat, petef, cperey (muted), ??P36,
13:05:17 [Zakim]
... mischat_, +03539149aabb
13:05:25 [Zakim]
+ +39.011.228.aacc
13:05:27 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
13:05:29 [Zakim]
cperey was already muted, cperey
13:05:39 [karl]
-> Last Week in Social Web Incubator Group
13:05:40 [Zakim]
On IRC I see uldis, pchampin, yuk, petef, cperey, jsalvachua, DKA, RRSAgent, wonsuk, Zakim, mischat, oshani, renato, melvster, claudio, AdamB, tinkster, FabGandon, karl, dom,
13:05:45 [Zakim]
... AlexPassant, mattl
13:05:55 [tinkster]
Does it just involve typing what's spoken to IRC?
13:06:01 [Zakim]
13:06:24 [tinkster]
If so, I can do that - I can type pretty quickly.
13:06:24 [cperey]
zakim, unmute me
13:06:29 [Zakim]
cperey should no longer be muted
13:06:40 [raphael]
raphael has joined #swxg
13:06:52 [dom]
ScribeNick: tinkster
13:06:56 [dom]
Scribe: Toby
13:07:10 [cperey]
zakim, mute me
13:07:11 [Zakim]
cperey should now be muted
13:07:15 [karl]
cheers for tinkster
13:07:16 [tinkster]
danbri and hhalpin details, so I'm scribing.
13:07:40 [tinkster]
Harry's agenda had a typo for IRC channel. This is the correct one.
13:07:52 [dom]
13:07:54 [tinkster]
No roll call. Anyone new?
13:07:55 [Zakim]
- +03539149aabb
13:07:56 [dom]
Chair: DKA
13:08:04 [dom]
Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group
13:08:10 [AlexPassant]
I was there only on IRC last week
13:08:29 [tinkster]
Alex Passant -
13:08:34 [DKA]
zakim, whio's making noise?
13:08:34 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, DKA.
13:08:35 [tinkster]
DERI Galway.
13:08:51 [petef]
zakim, mute me
13:08:51 [Zakim]
petef should now be muted
13:08:52 [tinkster]
Interested in social/semantic stuff.
13:08:58 [mischat]
zakim, who is making noise ?
13:09:02 [Zakim]
+ +03539149aadd
13:09:09 [Zakim]
mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: mischat_ (26%)
13:09:11 [tinkster]
Do we approve minutes from last meeting?
13:09:15 [tinkster]
Any objections?
13:09:19 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
13:09:19 [Zakim]
mischat was already muted, mischat
13:09:27 [uldis]
Zakim, +03539149aadd is me
13:09:27 [Zakim]
+uldis; got it
13:09:39 [tinkster]
We'll generally assume minutes approved unless we hear otherwise.
13:09:48 [cperey]
zakim, unmute me
13:09:48 [Zakim]
cperey should no longer be muted
13:09:58 [tinkster]
First, we'll hear about Christine's taskforce proposal.
13:10:06 [dom]
-> Christine's TF proposal
13:10:06 [Zakim]
- +39.011.228.aacc
13:10:31 [dom]
-> Last week meeting minutes
13:10:39 [mischat]
zakim, ??P36 is me
13:10:39 [Zakim]
+mischat; got it
13:10:43 [tinkster]
Christine: task forces concept not just my idea. Helped to write it and adopted formula from workshops.
13:10:45 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
13:10:45 [Zakim]
mischat was already muted, mischat
13:11:00 [mischat]
zakim, who is making noise ?
13:11:01 [tinkster]
People at workshops and after expressed interest in specific topics.
13:11:11 [Zakim]
mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: uldis (50%)
13:11:25 [dom]
zakim, mute uldis
13:11:25 [Zakim]
uldis should now be muted
13:11:28 [tinkster]
Task forces illustrate depth and bredth of topics.
13:11:52 [tinkster]
Christine doesn't percieve "mobile" as separate topic. Is relevant to all task forces.
13:12:02 [tinkster]
This is why she doesn't propose such a task force.
13:12:05 [DKA]
+1 to not splitting mobile off.
13:12:11 [Zakim]
+ +49.899.5.aaee
13:12:27 [tinkster]
Christine's task force proposal is not the only way this could be split up.
13:12:29 [Zakim]
13:12:42 [dom]
zakim, aaee is Julian
13:12:42 [Zakim]
+Julian; got it
13:12:42 [tinkster]
Distributed and privacy/trust seem to have a lot of people interested.
13:12:50 [jsalvachua]
+1 not splitting mobile
13:12:58 [tinkster]
Julian from Vodaphone has joined us and will be introducing himself.
13:13:13 [claudio]
claudio has joined #swxg
13:13:16 [tinkster]
Vodaphone R&D, research initiatives group.
13:13:25 [tinkster]
Interested in context and standardising that here.
13:13:53 [cperey]
zakim, mute me
13:13:53 [Zakim]
cperey should now be muted
13:14:11 [Zakim]
+ +39.011.228.aaff
13:14:14 [tinkster]
DKA notes task forces have been successful in Mobile Web Best Practices.
13:14:17 [hhalpin]
hhalpin has joined #swxg
13:14:29 [tinkster]
MWBP task forces have sometimes had own calls, own face to faces.
13:15:04 [tinkster]
DKA speaks about definition of task forces.
13:15:10 [tinkster]
Key feature is that they have a lead.
13:15:15 [dom]
ack me
13:15:17 [cperey]
task force has leader and people/participants!
13:15:37 [raphael]
+1 to not split mobile too
13:15:39 [danbri]
danbri has joined #swxg
13:15:41 [cperey]
we need to have a critical number of experts
13:15:51 [tinkster]
Dom: leader + charter. People can decide whether to join.
13:15:59 [cperey]
make sure task force scope is well defined
13:16:02 [danbri]
13:16:02 [dom]
zakim, mute me
13:16:02 [Zakim]
dom should now be muted
13:16:05 [danbri]
sorry late, trying join
13:16:06 [tinkster]
Needs more than 1 participant.
13:16:37 [tinkster]
For every task force we want to launch, there is an overhead - identify leader, etc.
13:17:13 [Zakim]
13:17:14 [tinkster]
e.g. a mobile web task force was set up for an open source implementation. Made sense to split it off, have own calls, have face to faces to work on code.
13:17:20 [danbri]
zakim, ??P48 is danbri
13:17:20 [Zakim]
+danbri; got it
13:17:22 [tinkster]
Different deliverables from main working group.
13:17:43 [tinkster]
Any software development would certainly make sense as a task force.
13:18:00 [tinkster]
Let's identify one or two task forces to split off and then phase in others if/when needed.
13:18:00 [danbri]
..ooOO( 7 task forces, vs 7 email threads...? )
13:18:24 [tinkster]
What are people's priorities for task forces?
13:18:31 [cperey]
zakim, unmjute me
13:18:31 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'unmjute me', cperey
13:18:40 [cperey]
zakim, unmute me
13:18:40 [Zakim]
cperey should no longer be muted
13:18:49 [cperey]
It is not required that all task forces begin at the start of the incubator's activity. There may be delays either due to lack of appropriate leader or contributors, dependencies or lack of time on behalf of the incubator group's members.
13:19:10 [AdamB]
how should the task forces map back to the XG charter?
13:19:13 [tinkster]
Christine: sorry for echo on line. Agrees that some can be spun off later - sometimes deirable when there are dependencies.
13:19:25 [AdamB]
or should i ask, do they need to?
13:19:39 [DKA]
13:19:44 [tinkster]
Christine: important to have a higher level "Landscape" task force. How does everything look big picture?
13:20:05 [cperey]
zakim, mute me
13:20:08 [tinkster]
Christine: I want to be invoolved in that one.
13:20:14 [Zakim]
13:20:17 [Zakim]
cperey should now be muted
13:20:18 [cperey]
yes, I would like to lead that
13:20:21 [hhalpin]
Zakim, P49 is hhalpin
13:20:26 [tinkster]
DKA: agrees landscape tf makes sense.
13:20:34 [DKA]
13:20:37 [Zakim]
sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'P49'
13:20:40 [hhalpin]
Zakim, ??P49 is hhalpin
13:20:41 [cperey]
looks like he is
13:20:42 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
13:20:42 [hhalpin]
I am online.
13:20:49 [cperey]
both are on line
13:20:59 [tinkster]
Who's speaking?
13:21:09 [cperey]
zakim, unmute me
13:21:09 [Zakim]
cperey should no longer be muted
13:21:13 [mischat]
tinkster: hhaplin is speaking
13:21:21 [tinkster]
13:21:22 [danbri]
i'm not getting audio here
13:21:30 [hhalpin]
Zakim, mute me
13:21:30 [Zakim]
hhalpin should now be muted
13:21:33 [tinkster]
hhalpin: agrees on having task forces.
13:21:38 [mischat]
zakim, who is making noise ?
13:21:49 [Zakim]
mischat, listening for 11 seconds I could not identify any sounds
13:21:49 [danbri]
may i make my point by irc please?: for now re "task forces", let's start by seeing them as email threads ...
13:21:57 [jsalvachua]
+1 for task forces to start and focus the work
13:22:03 [hhalpin]
I'd say 2 or 3.
13:22:03 [cperey]
agree that they need to be clarified based on interests
13:22:09 [danbri]
if we get > 10 messages in 1 of these threads, and more than 3 participants in that thread, then let's call it a Task Force ...
13:22:12 [tinkster]
DKA: Scoping for task forces need more quantification. Don't want to split off 7 immediately. 2 is a good place to start.
13:22:14 [karl]
q+ to ask about Landscape Task force future?
13:22:41 [tinkster]
DKA: all Christines listed areas are good places, but don't necessarily need all of them to spin off separately.
13:22:42 [hhalpin]
notes that we also had a poll on task for projected participation in past...
13:22:47 [hhalpin]
let me find that URI
13:22:58 [tinkster]
Landscape and Business areas - mergeable?
13:23:08 [DKA]
13:23:28 [tinkster]
Christine: there is overlap, but Landscape intended to look at technical aspects, and look for gaps.
13:23:28 [AdamB]
13:23:41 [MacTed]
MacTed has joined #swxg
13:23:52 [tinkster]
Christine: metrics is muddy.
13:23:58 [DKA]
ack karl
13:23:58 [Zakim]
karl, you wanted to ask about Landscape Task force future?
13:24:03 [cperey]
zakim, mute me
13:24:04 [Zakim]
cperey should now be muted
13:24:36 [tinkster]
Karl: Landscape seems to be about surveying. Incubator is 1 year (maybe two if we're lucky).
13:24:53 [hhalpin]
Maybe one thing we can say, if we wanted to start 2 or 3 task forces in order to get some work done, which 2 or 3 would be best?
13:24:58 [cperey]
zakim, unmute me
13:24:58 [Zakim]
cperey should no longer be muted
13:25:13 [tinkster]
Karl: Should we have a continuing forum for discussing developments after the XG is finished?
13:25:30 [tinkster]
Christine: Landscape is a "living framework". On a wiki?
13:26:25 [karl] ? does it answer the needs or what is needed?
13:26:27 [cperey]
zakim, mute me
13:26:27 [Zakim]
cperey should now be muted
13:26:30 [tinkster]
Christine: capture the state of the art and then "colour on top of it to make it more rich".
13:26:31 [hhalpin]
I guess my question with Landscape is that it's more or less what the entire XG is supposed to be doing...
13:26:41 [DKA]
ack adam
13:26:55 [tinkster]
DKA? agrees with christine about living document.
13:26:59 [mischat]
agreed hhalpin, the landscape sounds like what the final report will be
13:26:59 [Zakim]
13:27:17 [tinkster]
Adam: start with charter - this might reduce number of task forces.
13:27:24 [cperey]
I think that the landscape task force will contribute to the final deliverable
13:27:38 [cperey]
yes, section in the XG report
13:28:00 [tinkster]
DKA: Landscape/Business/other? task forces will probably contribute chapters to end deliverables.
13:28:03 [cperey]
It is central to the XG's "view" on the world and its own work
13:28:06 [karl]
Is there a need for a task force for Landscape when there are already plenty of sites covering social web?
13:28:06 [hhalpin]
13:28:08 [karl]
13:28:15 [hhalpin]
Results of Task Force Questionnaire from March.
13:28:19 [DKA]
13:28:24 [DKA]
ack karl
13:29:18 [tinkster]
Karl: plenty of websites out there about the social web. Some business info, some development. Do we need yet another website for delivering information?
13:29:29 [hhalpin]
General results from questionnaire had "business" and "landscape" merge, and with "Distributed Architecture" and "Interoperability" merging as well, with context and user-experience kept separate.
13:29:38 [tinkster]
What should be on the wiki? How do we select info to include?
13:30:00 [cperey]
zakim, unmute me
13:30:00 [Zakim]
cperey should no longer be muted
13:30:14 [mischat]
13:30:49 [tinkster]
Christine: for people in the group to decide what's included. She's not married to any particular structure. Should be technical and lead to us identifying areas that need more attention.
13:31:07 [hhalpin]
On the results of questionnaire, we had most popular task forces being 1) interoperability/distributed architecture 2) privacy and 3) user experience and 4) contextual data
13:31:20 [tinkster]
Landscape can help us figure out if new technologies are needed, or maybe that no new technologies needed.
13:32:06 [tinkster]
As most people seem to be interested in privacy, interop, etc, then perhaps not enough people interested in Landscape to do that work?
13:32:09 [hhalpin]
13:32:11 [DKA]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the group will create a task force focusing on "landscape and business." Christine Perey to lead task force and edit task force report.
13:32:13 [DKA]
13:32:28 [tinkster]
Landscape would look at obstacles to growth of social web.
13:32:53 [DKA]
ack hh
13:32:54 [hhalpin]
The whole point of the XG is future W3C standardization.
13:32:57 [tinkster]
What work is already being done which could be standardised?
13:32:57 [Zakim]
+ +1.510.931.aagg
13:33:05 [cperey]
zakim, mute me
13:33:05 [Zakim]
cperey should now be muted
13:33:21 [danbri]
zakim, who is on the phone?
13:33:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdamB, ??P5, AlexPassant, tinkster (muted), FabGandon, wonsuk, karl, oshani (muted), dom (muted), jsalvachua (muted), mischat (muted), petef (muted), cperey
13:33:24 [Zakim]
... (muted), mischat.a, mischat_ (muted), pchampin (muted), uldis (muted), Julian, raphael (muted), +39.011.228.aaff, danbri, hhalpin, MacTed, +1.510.931.aagg
13:33:25 [tinkster]
40/50 people telecons are not going to be productive, so task forces are almost a requirement.
13:33:35 [tinkster]
How should it be dividided is the real question?
13:33:40 [danbri]
24 ppl on phone?
13:33:49 [bblfish]
bblfish has joined #swxg
13:34:03 [karl]
the deliverables of Task Forces could drive the themes
13:34:07 [bblfish]
oops sorry for coming in late
13:34:11 [tinkster]
The landscape stuff should be what the *entire* XG is looking at. It's other topics that want task forces.
13:34:21 [tinkster]
Who's speaking now? DKA?
13:34:25 [mischat]
13:34:28 [tinkster]
13:34:29 [petef]
hhalpin speaking now
13:34:38 [cperey]
task forces should/would be focused on topics
13:34:47 [DKA]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the group will three task forces: privacy; user experience and context.
13:34:49 [cperey]
Privacy seems to be very popular
13:35:13 [tinkster]
Task forces for privacy, interop, another thing (anyone catch it?)
13:35:15 [DKA]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the group will three task forces: privacy; user experience and context. Landscape will be a deliverable of the main working group.
13:35:21 [tinkster]
Ah, DKA has.
13:35:32 [mib_4d0quw9x]
mib_4d0quw9x has joined #swxg
13:35:37 [hhalpin]
Zakim, mute me
13:35:37 [Zakim]
hhalpin should now be muted
13:35:46 [tinkster]
From this structure, the landscape should organically emerge.
13:36:06 [mischat]
distributed architecture task force seems important too .
13:36:06 [cperey]
what about distributed/decentralized architectures?
13:36:15 [petef]
DKA< there was a fourth too: distributed architectures and data portability
13:36:20 [tinkster]
DKA has proposed a resolution to task forces. He agrees with hhalpin that Landscape is key.
13:36:25 [hhalpin]
Privacy, User Experience, Context, Distributed Architecture.
13:36:31 [hhalpin]
That's 4. Perhaps too many.
13:36:34 [jsalvachua]
i think that interoperability and distributed may be interesting (merged)
13:36:36 [tinkster]
Landscape still needs a leader even if it's being worked on by whole XG.
13:36:38 [hhalpin]
We could do a WBS Questionnaire.
13:36:41 [cperey]
not too many, if there are sufficient people
13:36:48 [hhalpin]
Landscape leader will be editor of final report deliverble.
13:36:51 [cperey]
no need to delay getting a poll now
13:36:52 [AlexPassant]
+1 for merging distributed architecture and interoperability
13:37:13 [cperey]
zakim, mute me
13:37:13 [Zakim]
cperey was already muted, cperey
13:37:16 [cperey]
Privacy, User Experience, Context, Distributed Architecture.
13:37:24 [karl]
-> Social Web Privacy on delicious
13:37:33 [jsalvachua]
13:37:34 [cperey]
Landscape=final deliverable?
13:37:38 [DKA]
ack jsa
13:37:40 [hhalpin]
CPerey, yes.
13:37:42 [tinkster]
I can't scribe and put myself on the queue.
13:37:50 [cperey]
Miguel Martin wanted to do the distributed architecture
13:38:10 [tinkster]
jsa: distributed architecture
13:38:16 [hhalpin]
Distributed Architecture + Portability.
13:38:17 [cperey]
it is of high interest
13:38:26 [hhalpin]
That's popular.
13:38:36 [jsalvachua]
Joaquin salvachua :)
13:38:38 [hhalpin]
13:38:40 [karl]
small goals are achievable.
13:38:44 [Zakim]
13:38:48 [jsalvachua]
zakin, unmute me
13:38:58 [uldis]
if landscape / overview is a deliverable of the main group, will there be anyone focusing on it? that is, if we don't mention such a group (for landscape), who will work on it?
13:39:06 [tinkster]
jsalvachua: reintroduces himself. Interested in running distrib arch and portability.
13:39:07 [hhalpin]
Landscape will be worked on by the editors.
13:39:12 [petef]
I would be interested in working on that too, with jsvalchua
13:39:20 [jsalvachua]
perfect petef :)
13:39:29 [mischat]
13:39:30 [tinkster]
Privacy, User Exp, Context - leaders?... anyone?
13:39:32 [hhalpin]
So, in general, each of the task force will contribute use-cases and add technical details to technical document.
13:39:47 [hhalpin]
Then towards end of XG lifespan, we synthesize this work collectively.
13:39:48 [tinkster]
Does is make sense to combine them. Mischa says no.
13:39:54 [hhalpin]
Into landscape.
13:39:59 [hhalpin]
Which is given by the final report.
13:40:00 [cperey]
hi Claudio!
13:40:12 [tinkster]
claudio: interested in context, but what is the scope?
13:40:16 [claudio]
13:40:24 [DKA]
13:40:27 [DKA]
ack claudio
13:40:54 [tinkster]
claudio: talking to Philip Oscar (?) to understand whether Telecom Italia (?) work might fit in here or another group.
13:41:31 [cperey]
The mission of this task force is to document those principles which the task force members believe to be the appropriate use & approaches to control of abuse of contextual data in social networks. One of the deliverables of this task force is a report mapping the current uses of context in social networking. A best practices guide could also be envisioned,
13:41:35 [cperey]
location, proximity
13:41:41 [mischat]
q+ regarding context
13:41:44 [tinkster]
DKA: christine's notes mention context = location, proximity, more.
13:42:03 [DKA]
13:42:05 [tinkster]
What goes into context information? Mapping them to existing standards/vocabs.
13:42:13 [hhalpin]
For example of context, look at this:
13:42:14 [DKA]
ack reg
13:42:16 [DKA]
ack cont
13:42:21 [DKA]
q+ mischat
13:42:23 [petef]
zakim, who is speaking?
13:42:33 [Zakim]
petef, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P5 (9%), MacTed (35%)
13:42:40 [hhalpin]
13:42:55 [tinkster]
Wide scope of context - abuse of context info - is this better handled by privacy task force?
13:43:45 [tinkster]
claudio is mostly interested in context as in device capabilities.
13:43:48 [cperey]
13:43:53 [DKA]
ack mischat
13:43:55 [mischat]
zakim, unmute me
13:43:55 [Zakim]
mischat was not muted, mischat
13:43:56 [hhalpin]
maybe think geolocation API, how does that work with an API like OpenSocial or Social Data?
13:44:08 [tinkster]
mischat: people can hear him.
13:44:14 [tinkster]
He's from Garlick.
13:44:32 [tinkster]
Looked into life logging and working out autobiographies from web activity.
13:44:35 [AlexPassant]
13:44:49 [tinkster]
AlexPassant: I knew it was some kind of silly spelling.
13:44:53 [tinkster]
13:45:09 [mib_4d0quw9x]
q+ Hakan
13:45:13 [DKA]
13:45:14 [tinkster]
Interesting = Analysis of photographs to figure out what people were doing at the time.
13:45:44 [karl]
s/ AlexPassant:/ AlexPassant,/
13:46:03 [raphael]
Misha refers to work from Mor Naarman, previously at Yahoo Berkeley now in New York
13:46:05 [hhalpin]
The real key is that likely all task-forces work will have to merge.
13:46:24 [hhalpin]
The entire point of the task forces is to get small enough groups to allow productive telecons to produce text.
13:46:37 [mischat]
zakim, unmuted me
13:46:37 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'unmuted me', mischat
13:46:44 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
13:46:44 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
13:46:44 [hhalpin]
for the deliverables and to have detailed technical conversations as well.
13:46:47 [tinkster]
Can mischa lead a task force or edit a document about this? No, he's still working on PhD and that takes much of his time. But he'll add his thoughts about context to the wiki.
13:46:57 [cperey]
...but context also includes more
13:47:38 [DKA]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the group will four task forces: privacy; user experience; distributed architecture and context. Landscape will be a deliverable of the main working group.
13:47:44 [tinkster]
claudio: Still thinks this is a little too general. Probably not interested in leading context task force. Context might have to be something which is launched further along, not initially. Wait until needs are clarified?
13:48:24 [mischat]
context related project in EU :
13:48:31 [hhalpin]
We can always launch a contextual task force later as needed, or do it in larger group telecons.
13:48:35 [DKA]
ACTION mischat to write some thoughts into the wiki on context, channeling Mor Naaman.
13:48:42 [hhalpin]
13:48:55 [dom]
ACTION: mischat to write some thoughts into the wiki on context, channeling Mor Naaman
13:49:01 [DKA]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the group will four task forces: privacy; user experience; distributed architecture. Landscape and context documents will be deliverables of the main working group.
13:49:04 [DKA]
13:49:04 [mischat]
dom that dom :)
13:49:09 [mischat]
got that dom
13:49:10 [tinkster]
me: Could context be an area of user experience? Providing different experiences based on context?
13:49:11 [DKA]
ack hakan
13:49:20 [danbri]
i only see 3 there
13:49:23 [petef]
DKA s/four/three ?
13:49:44 [tinkster]
hakan: we should have a look at what's already been done in presence area. Can we use what's already there?
13:49:51 [danbri]
"the group will initiate THREE task forces: privacy; user experience; distributed architecture."
13:50:07 [tinkster]
hakan: will add links and info to wiki about this topic.
13:50:12 [hhalpin]
Let's check to see if we have a lead for privacy and user-experience.
13:50:15 [tinkster]
How can I add actions?
13:50:16 [hhalpin]
Zakim, unmute me
13:50:16 [Zakim]
hhalpin should no longer be muted
13:50:34 [DKA]
ACTION: hakan to provide some info into the wiki on existing work on context.
13:50:44 [tinkster]
me: am interested in privacy, but not enough to lead.
13:50:46 [cperey]
this (presence work in the past) is landscape!! thank you!!
13:50:49 [danbri]
+1 on 2 or 3 for starters being fine
13:50:59 [karl]
It would be good to have a precise description of what are the deliverables of each task force.
13:51:03 [hhalpin]
Zakim, mute me
13:51:03 [Zakim]
hhalpin should now be muted
13:51:04 [tinkster]
Who wants to lead privacy; and user experience?
13:51:06 [mischat]
13:51:08 [hhalpin]
Volunteers for privacy task force?
13:51:09 [bblfish]
I will be looking at Access Control
13:51:10 [DKA]
ack mischat
13:51:14 [bblfish]
Is that privacy?
13:51:16 [DKA]
ach hh
13:51:28 [karl]
q+ to tell about privacy scope
13:51:29 [cperey]
precise definitions of task forces are for the participants
13:51:31 [hhalpin]
The key is not just to list technologies, but to inspect them.
13:51:56 [DKA]
+1 to mischa's comments
13:52:02 [hhalpin]
To determine what are compatible with current user and business practice, both on a social level and technical level.
13:52:07 [tinkster]
mischat: XRIs - are people interested in these? Garlik can provide insight on what sort of personal info is out there on the web. But what do people want?
13:52:09 [mischat]
zakim, unmute me
13:52:09 [Zakim]
mischat was not muted, mischat
13:52:22 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
13:52:22 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
13:52:50 [hhalpin]
However, note that usage of XRIs *may* prove to be sticking point if W3C wanted to push standards that use XRIs due to RF issues.
13:52:51 [cperey]
This task force will explore how specific approaches to ensuring user and user data privacy and trust can improve the security and reduce risks of users. This task force is also responsible for the development of best practices recommendations on privacy in social networks.
13:53:04 [tinkster]
"Best Practices for Privacy in Social Networks" could be an outcome. What are people's perceptions of privacy?
13:53:08 [karl]
13:53:26 [mischat]
zakim, unmuted me
13:53:26 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'unmuted me', mischat
13:53:31 [tinkster]
Can mischat provide information about privacy on Wiki?
13:53:34 [mischat]
yes i can add to
13:53:37 [mischat]
13:53:48 [DKA]
ACTION: mischat to provide some data on privacy to the wiki.
13:53:52 [DKA]
13:54:04 [hhalpin]
unmute me
13:54:07 [cperey]
6 min to close of meeting
13:54:07 [hhalpin]
Zakim, unmute me
13:54:07 [Zakim]
hhalpin should no longer be muted
13:54:11 [DKA]
ack hh
13:54:15 [hhalpin]
Do we still not have a Privacy Task Force Leader?
13:54:20 [tinkster]
hhalpin: Don't we have a privacy leader??
13:54:25 [DKA]
13:54:27 [hhalpin]
Zakim, mute me.
13:54:27 [Zakim]
hhalpin should now be muted
13:54:31 [DKA]
ack karl
13:54:31 [Zakim]
karl, you wanted to tell about privacy scope
13:54:49 [tinkster]
karl: would be happy to lead on privacy if the scope is very focussed.
13:55:03 [hhalpin]
Maybe give Karl an action to clarify the privacy task force :)
13:55:17 [tinkster]
karl: user stories might be a way to focus on what is needed.
13:55:26 [hhalpin]
+1 to user stories
13:55:32 [mischat]
+1 to user stories
13:55:46 [hhalpin]
User stories then become part of use-case document...
13:55:48 [cperey]
how is user stories = or not to use cases?
13:55:55 [DKA]
ACTION: Karl to provide some user stories regarding privacy.
13:55:59 [tinkster]
DKA supports the idea of user stories as a way of exploring these topics - equally works for context.
13:56:03 [pchampin]
same question as cperey
13:56:13 [tinkster]
Would someone want to provide context user stories?
13:56:26 [DKA]
ACTION: Julian to provide some user stories regarding context.
13:56:27 [hhalpin]
Cperey, pchampin: user stories, once mature, will be part of use-case document.
13:56:28 [tinkster]
julian could.
13:56:28 [danbri]
if someone has a template, i could probably contrib a tv-related story
13:56:33 [DKA]
ACTION: Hakan to provide some user stories regarding context.
13:56:36 [tinkster]
Someone else (who?) could.
13:56:45 [hhalpin]
(actions are good!)
13:56:47 [yuk]
yuk has joined #swxg
13:56:55 [tinkster]
DKA = actions equal progress!
13:57:09 [cperey]
13:57:12 [karl]
user stories will help to refine task forces I guess
13:57:20 [tinkster]
Will Christine edit the landscape document? Christine says yes.
13:57:28 [cperey]
I would be happy to shape landscape wiki area
13:57:41 [hhalpin]
Note that landscape wiki = (probably equals) = editor of final report for W3C :)
13:57:56 [hhalpin]
Oshani, do you want an action on that context + privacy?
13:58:01 [oshani]
13:58:15 [hhalpin]
ACTION: Oshani to provide use-cases for privacy and context on wiki
13:58:15 [tinkster]
Editing a document vs contributing to wiki. Wiki is good to start with, but we need to ultimately provide documents.
13:58:22 [tinkster]
Item #3 on agenda.
13:58:48 [danbri]
danbri: "Can you hear me? Is this thing on?"
13:58:53 [hhalpin]
Zakim, unmute me
13:58:53 [Zakim]
hhalpin should no longer be muted
13:58:54 [mischat]
no we cant hear you
13:58:55 [danbri]
pls continue my actions
13:58:56 [tinkster]
Can't hear danbri.
13:58:57 [cperey]
we should continue this discussion abou how to work onj the next call
13:59:03 [hhalpin]
13:59:05 [danbri]
noting that harry made a start, and i tweaked his page ...
13:59:13 [tinkster]
About time to finish off...
13:59:22 [hhalpin]
13:59:36 [danbri]
re wiki, i am thinking something a bit like in spirit but less IRC-ish
13:59:44 [tinkster]
hhalpin: Was a slow start because of wiki editing issues, but here's a list of people we could invite here.
13:59:46 [danbri]
hhalpin, i edited that a bit earlier
13:59:56 [danbri]
confirm that wiki editing works now :)
14:00:01 [tinkster]
me: I really want to look at OMB spec.
14:00:03 [Zakim]
14:00:26 [jsalvachua]
hhalpin, my w3c user does not works for the wiki
14:00:27 [danbri]
re list of people/projects, i'd rather have a list of topics and problems ...
14:00:32 [tinkster]
Do we have consensus on having invited guests?
14:00:32 [petef]
+1 for biweekly guest telecons
14:00:33 [danbri]
... which is what i consider my action to address
14:00:36 [tinkster]
me +1
14:00:37 [cperey]
I would like to suggest that we have the guest telecons to be separately
14:00:41 [mischat]
jsalvachua: when was the last time you checked
14:00:50 [jsalvachua]
1 hour ago
14:00:53 [danbri]
not: "we'd like you to come and talk to us. " but "we'd like you to come and talk about x"
14:00:57 [DKA]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: we should have guest speaker telecons - guests to be organized by chairs.
14:00:59 [tinkster]
Guest telecons will be separate from main telecon. Will be bi-weekly.
14:01:03 [DKA]
14:01:04 [danbri]
where my action is specifying some Xs and a template for X
14:01:10 [cperey]
but a task force telecon could happen in the same week as guest speaker telecon
14:01:12 [hhalpin]
Maybe test for consensus or ask questions?
14:01:20 [mischat]
can we add to list of Guest speakers ?
14:01:31 [hhalpin]
mischat: yes, that's why the guest speakers are on the wiki
14:01:56 [tinkster]
DKA(?): Main objection was that it might be a distraction, and information is already available in other ways, but that shouldn't stop us.
14:02:01 [cperey]
I would like there to be an effort to bring in Facebook as an invited guest
14:02:01 [melvster]
list of speakers id add: Kevin Marks (opensocial etc.) , Brad Fitzpatrick (Google social graph API)
14:02:12 [DKA]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: we should have optional guest speaker telecons - guests to be organized by chairs.
14:02:21 [DKA]
+1 to the proposal.
14:02:21 [petef]
although there are already enough speakers on the wiki to last a year
14:02:26 [Zakim]
14:02:30 [tinkster]
It's always possible to skip particular guest telecons if you're not interested.
14:02:35 [danbri]
lots of them will be too busy, for sure
14:02:40 [cperey]
I have to sign off
14:02:42 [danbri]
we don't know who, so good to have a nice list
14:02:43 [tinkster]
Some people listed on wiki might not be available.
14:02:46 [cperey]
14:02:52 [hhalpin]
Any objections?
14:02:57 [danbri]
if we make it very problem-focussed we could get folk who might otherwise be unable to justify the time
14:02:59 [Zakim]
14:03:10 [tinkster]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: we should have optional guest speaker telecons - guests to be organized by chairs.
14:03:14 [petef]
14:03:15 [hhalpin]
Danbri: we can tweak the kind and type of inviation...
14:03:16 [mib_4d0quw9x]
+1 (Hakan)
14:03:19 [jsalvachua]
14:03:20 [tinkster]
RESOLUTION: we should have optional guest speaker telecons - guests to be organized by chairs.
14:03:25 [danbri]
14:03:37 [hhalpin]
ACTION: hhalpin and danbri to invite guest speakers and investigate their schedule
14:03:54 [danbri]
i pinged chris saad earlier re dataportability too
14:04:00 [tinkster]
Evan P of OMB interested in contributing.
14:04:05 [danbri]
i can bring it up on next week's dataportability call too
14:04:14 [hhalpin]
karl: big news would definitely be important
14:04:19 [karl]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:04:22 [tinkster]
Next week: pick up discussion on task forces.
14:04:22 [hhalpin]
Zakim, mute me
14:04:22 [Zakim]
hhalpin should now be muted
14:04:27 [karl]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:04:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate karl
14:04:30 [tinkster]
Bye everyone!
14:04:30 [jsalvachua]
karl, looks interesting
14:04:31 [Zakim]
- +1.510.931.aagg
14:04:32 [Zakim]
14:04:32 [Zakim]
14:04:34 [mischat]
bye all
14:04:35 [Zakim]
14:04:36 [hhalpin]
bye everyone, only a few minutes over!
14:04:37 [Zakim]
14:04:37 [petef]
thanks all, bye
14:04:37 [mib_4d0quw9x]
14:04:38 [Zakim]
14:04:40 [danbri]
cheers, sorry to be partially conneted
14:04:40 [Zakim]
14:04:41 [jsalvachua]
14:04:41 [AdamB]
14:04:42 [Zakim]
14:04:43 [Zakim]
- +39.011.228.aaff
14:04:43 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has left #swxg
14:04:44 [Zakim]
14:04:44 [Zakim]
14:04:46 [Zakim]
14:04:46 [Zakim]
14:04:48 [Zakim]
14:04:49 [pchampin]
pchampin has left #swxg
14:04:50 [Zakim]
14:04:52 [Zakim]
14:04:54 [Zakim]
14:04:56 [Zakim]
14:04:57 [tinkster]
Is there anything I need to do as scribe to finish off?
14:04:58 [Zakim]
14:05:05 [Zakim]
14:05:07 [Zakim]
14:05:12 [tinkster]
14:05:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate raphael
14:05:20 [tinkster]
no problem.
14:05:22 [petef]
petef has left #swxg
14:05:47 [dom]
zakim, list attendees
14:05:47 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been AdamB, tinkster, AlexPassant, FabGandon, wonsuk, karl, dom, oshani, jsalvachua, cperey, +0797094aaaa, petef, +03539149aabb, mischat,
14:05:50 [Zakim]
... +39.011.228.aacc, pchampin, uldis, +49.899.5.aaee, raphael, Julian, +39.011.228.aaff, danbri, hhalpin, MacTed, +1.510.931.aagg, Hakan
14:05:58 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:05:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate dom
14:06:05 [dom]
Zakim, who's on the call?
14:06:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see hhalpin
14:06:09 [dom]
zakim, drop hhalpin
14:06:09 [Zakim]
hhalpin is being disconnected
14:06:10 [Zakim]
INC_SWXG()9:00AM has ended
14:06:11 [Zakim]
Attendees were AdamB, tinkster, AlexPassant, FabGandon, wonsuk, karl, dom, oshani, jsalvachua, cperey, +0797094aaaa, petef, +03539149aabb, mischat, +39.011.228.aacc, pchampin,
14:06:14 [Zakim]
... uldis, +49.899.5.aaee, raphael, Julian, +39.011.228.aaff, danbri, hhalpin, MacTed, +1.510.931.aagg, Hakan
14:06:18 [yuk]
i don't miss me in the attendee
14:06:36 [dom]
Present+ yuk
14:06:39 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:06:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate dom
14:06:41 [yuk]
thank you
14:07:01 [mischat]
mischat has joined #swxg
14:07:29 [dom]
Regrets: Ronald, BenG, JeffS, PhilA, AlexKorth
14:07:36 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:07:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate dom
14:22:05 [raphael]
raphael has left #swxg
14:27:04 [tinkster]
OK, I've read the scribe.perl documentation now, so if you need me to scribe again, I should be able to to a neater job of it.
14:27:33 [dom]
be careful, tinkster, you risk being elected permascribe :)
14:28:29 [mischat]
you shouldn't have admitted to the reading the documentation
14:28:39 [tinkster]
I don't know about that. I found the words tended to go straight from ear to hand without passing through brain in between. I'd like to get a chance to think about some of the comments some weeks!
14:28:59 [tinkster]
But am happy to do it, say, once a month.
14:34:09 [hhalpin]
Official Scribe: Tinkster :)
14:34:22 [hhalpin]
But really, thanks, you did a great job scribing.
14:34:51 [oshani_]
oshani_ has joined #swxg
14:35:42 [oshani]
oshani has left #swxg
14:50:04 [tom]
tom has joined #swxg
14:50:35 [tinkster]
Hello tommorris!
14:50:38 [tommorris]
hey tinkster
14:53:24 [tinkster]
@item, @itemprop ?
14:53:44 [tommorris]
(RDFa is Not Invented Here!)
14:54:48 [tommorris]
But about #swxg, I've had an idea.
14:55:27 [tommorris]
We create a Facebook group called "Tell us what sucks about online social networks".
14:55:54 [mischat]
14:56:00 [tommorris]
If we are hunting for use cases, we should go straight to the source: Facebook users.
14:56:42 [tinkster]
tommorris: same principle could be carried out on other social sites. Though we'd be unlikely to get in-depth information on twitter/
14:56:48 [tinkster]
14:56:50 [tinkster]
14:56:51 [tinkster]
14:56:52 [tinkster]
14:56:54 [tinkster]
14:56:55 [tinkster]
14:56:57 [tinkster]
14:57:12 [tommorris]
#with #lots !of #micro !metadata @pieces #laced #therein.
15:01:20 [tommorris]
Here's a first thing: someone who I vaguely knew at school over ten years ago should not be able to wink at me on Facebook. ;)
15:08:39 [tommorris]
Does #swxg have a public e-mail address?
15:09:20 [mischat]
15:11:17 [tommorris]
Okay, I'm going to list that on the Facebook group.
15:11:23 [tommorris]
Group name: "Tell us what could be better about the 'social web'"
15:11:30 [tommorris]
15:11:31 [tommorris]
The W3C's Social Web Incubator Group are trying to collect stories and ideas from users of social networking sites and services so they can make better standards and technologies to make the life of users on social web services better.
15:11:38 [tommorris]
Please tell us your story: how do you use social networking and social web services? Do you use them just on your computer or on your phone or other portable gadgets? What do you think could be better? Do you worry about privacy? Do you get frustrated with having to add your friends on other social networks? Do you ever worry about social networking sites abusing your trust and privacy?
15:12:28 [tommorris]
Two betters in first paragraph.
15:17:27 [tommorris]
15:19:30 [tommorris]
I'd now invite all the #swig people I know, but Facebook's friend selection panel doesn't seem to be working for me in Firefox
15:22:08 [tinkster]
tommorris: Add "Facebook's friend selection panel doesn't seem to be working for me in Firefox" to the list then!
15:22:24 [tommorris]
nah, I'll just do it in Safari later.
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18:06:59 [tommorris]
hhalpin: tinkster tells me that I ought to ask you nicely to become an Invited Expert. Would that be appropriate? ;)
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