IRC log of mediafrag on 2009-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:01:16 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
12:01:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc
12:01:18 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:01:18 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #mediafrag
12:01:20 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
12:01:20 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()8:00AM scheduled to start now
12:01:21 [trackbot]
Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
12:01:21 [trackbot]
Date: 13 May 2009
12:02:04 [Gui]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0022.html
12:02:12 [raphael]
Chairs: Raphael
12:02:24 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()8:00AM has now started
12:02:31 [Zakim]
+mhausenblas
12:02:34 [Zakim]
+silvia
12:02:49 [raphael]
Regrets: Yves, Erik, Davy,
12:03:03 [nessy]
zakim, mute me
12:03:03 [Zakim]
sorry, nessy, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
12:03:24 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:03:24 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:03:37 [Zakim]
+[CWI]
12:03:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.712.841.aaaa
12:03:51 [raphael]
zakim, [CWI] is raphael
12:03:51 [Zakim]
+raphael; got it
12:03:55 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:03:55 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:04:03 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aaaa is Gui
12:04:03 [Zakim]
+Gui; got it
12:04:11 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:04:11 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:04:28 [raphael]
Present: Silvia, Michael, Raphael, Gui, Conrad,
12:04:31 [Zakim]
+??P13
12:04:42 [raphael]
zakim, P13 is Conrad
12:04:42 [Zakim]
sorry, raphael, I do not recognize a party named 'P13'
12:04:45 [Gui]
zakim, mute me
12:04:45 [Zakim]
Gui should now be muted
12:04:48 [raphael]
zakim, ??P13 is Conrad
12:04:48 [Zakim]
+Conrad; got it
12:05:04 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
12:05:04 [Zakim]
Conrad should now be muted
12:05:06 [Gui]
yes
12:05:09 [raphael]
Scribe: yes
12:05:13 [raphael]
Scribenick: yes
12:05:28 [mhausenblas]
Scribenick: Gui
12:05:44 [Gui]
TOPIC: ADMIN, next conference
12:05:53 [raphael]
Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-mediafrag-minutes.html
12:06:08 [raphael]
+1
12:06:15 [mhausenblas]
+1
12:06:15 [Gui]
Accepting minutes
12:06:18 [silvia]
+1
12:06:56 [Gui]
Ok, minutes of the 29 April 2009 telecom accepted
12:07:00 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:07:00 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:07:02 [conrad]
Zakim, unmute me
12:07:02 [Zakim]
Conrad should no longer be muted
12:07:30 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:07:30 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:07:51 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
12:07:51 [Zakim]
Conrad should now be muted
12:07:58 [Gui]
Zakim, unmute me
12:07:58 [Zakim]
Gui should no longer be muted
12:08:15 [raphael]
Summary: unlikely that Conrad, Silvia and Guillaume can make the Amsterdam meeting
12:08:29 [raphael]
... easier for Europeans (Michael, Jack, Raphael, what about Yves?)
12:08:31 [Gui]
Zakim, mute me
12:08:31 [Zakim]
Gui should now be muted
12:08:56 [Gui]
TOPIC: UC & Requirements
12:09:10 [Gui]
The working draft has been published
12:10:23 [Gui]
All actions arel ongoing
12:10:37 [conrad]
Zakim, unmute me
12:10:37 [Zakim]
Conrad should no longer be muted
12:11:00 [Gui]
TOPIC UA Server HTTP Communication
12:11:13 [raphael]
TOPIC: UA Server HTTP Communication
12:11:47 [Gui]
Conrad will discuss this at the next teleconf
12:12:04 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:12:04 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:12:34 [Gui]
We need to start capturing what we recommend regarding the use of "?" and "#"
12:13:31 [Gui]
Silvia is getting inputs from the HTML5 mailing-list, any specific information that's relevant we should look at? Silvia and Conrad please keep track.
12:13:54 [raphael]
Raphael: in the next iteration of the document, we should clearly clarify the role of '#' and '?'
12:15:26 [Gui]
Further discussions about the MF syntax giving absolute times mechanism. It is a big requirement. Silvia to continue discuss with Thomas.
12:15:54 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
12:15:54 [Zakim]
Conrad should now be muted
12:15:55 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:15:55 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:16:03 [Gui]
TOPIC: UA MF Resolution and Processing
12:16:05 [raphael]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UserAgentMediaFragmentResolution
12:17:43 [Gui]
Michael would like to take us through the document at some point.
12:19:02 [Gui]
In the sequence of things, two things needs to be explained :
12:19:07 [Gui]
the template of HTTP headers
12:22:04 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:22:04 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:22:36 [Zakim]
-Conrad
12:23:18 [raphael]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_RTSP_Communication
12:23:55 [Zakim]
+??P13
12:24:13 [conrad]
zakim, P13 is Conrad
12:24:13 [Zakim]
sorry, conrad, I do not recognize a party named 'P13'
12:24:16 [mhausenblas]
zakim, ??P13 is Conrad
12:24:16 [Zakim]
+Conrad; got it
12:24:17 [silvia]
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2326.txt <- rtsp spec
12:24:36 [mhausenblas]
q+
12:24:44 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
12:24:44 [Zakim]
Conrad should now be muted
12:25:06 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:25:06 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:25:11 [mhausenblas]
ack me
12:25:55 [silvia]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Image:Rtsp.jpg <- synchronise this picture with more details with the one for http
12:26:45 [mhausenblas]
thanks silvia
12:26:49 [silvia]
:)
12:27:24 [Gui]
TOPIC: TEST CASES
12:28:14 [conrad]
Zakim, unmute me
12:28:14 [Zakim]
Conrad should no longer be muted
12:28:21 [Gui]
Discussing the issues raised on the mailing list
12:28:41 [Gui]
e.g. t=10,
12:28:58 [Gui]
Is it good syntax or not?
12:29:27 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
12:29:27 [Zakim]
Conrad should now be muted
12:29:33 [Gui]
Do we need to specify the media type as well for each test case?
12:31:16 [Gui]
1. the way to express the media type in the fragment syntax (only the server would need to know)
12:31:30 [Gui]
2. Write the media type inside the Test case results
12:31:49 [Gui]
(We need this data to be able to report on the test cases)
12:32:21 [Gui]
Zakim, unmute me
12:32:21 [Zakim]
Gui should no longer be muted
12:32:36 [raphael]
trackbot, status
12:32:48 [Gui]
Zakim, mute me
12:32:48 [Zakim]
Gui should now be muted
12:33:09 [Gui]
ISSUE: Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases?
12:33:10 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-9 - Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9/edit .
12:33:29 [conrad]
Zakim, unmute me
12:33:29 [Zakim]
Conrad should no longer be muted
12:34:51 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:34:51 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:35:16 [Gui]
Let's go through each test case and spend one or two minute on each during a teleconf (now?)
12:35:34 [mhausenblas]
+1
12:35:39 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:35:39 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:36:43 [conrad]
+1
12:36:48 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
12:36:48 [Zakim]
Conrad should now be muted
12:37:32 [raphael]
TC0000: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases#TC0000:_empty_MF: reviewed and agreed
12:37:32 [Gui]
TC empty MF - Is there cases where the MF conforming UAs would behave differently?
12:37:58 [silvia]
+1
12:38:10 [silvia]
no
12:38:44 [Gui]
TC0001: undefined time segment - npt - Would we expect an output?
12:39:15 [Gui]
Do we agree that the output should be the entire resource?
12:39:35 [conrad]
Zakim, unmute me
12:39:35 [Zakim]
Conrad should no longer be muted
12:39:38 [Gui]
it should be unspecified?
12:40:32 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me pleeeaze
12:40:32 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'mute me pleeeaze', conrad
12:40:35 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
12:40:35 [Zakim]
Conrad should now be muted
12:40:41 [Gui]
Gui has joined #mediafrag
12:40:51 [silvia]
I agree - it should be the entire resource
12:40:51 [conrad]
TC0001: +1
12:41:02 [mhausenblas]
Scribenick: mhausenblas
12:41:05 [Gui_]
Gui_ has joined #mediafrag
12:41:20 [mhausenblas]
RESOLVED: TC0001 accepted as proposed
12:41:25 [Gui_]
TC0002: empty time segment - npt
12:41:44 [conrad]
Zakim, unmute me
12:41:44 [Zakim]
Conrad should no longer be muted
12:41:53 [Gui_]
zakim, unmute me
12:41:53 [Zakim]
sorry, Gui_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
12:42:07 [raphael]
zakim, who is there?
12:42:07 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, raphael.
12:42:10 [raphael]
zakim, who is here?
12:42:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mhausenblas, silvia (muted), raphael, Gui (muted), Conrad
12:42:13 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Gui_, Zakim, RRSAgent, raphael, conrad, silvia, mhausenblas, Yves, trackbot
12:42:15 [Gui_]
Zakim, Gui_ is Gui
12:42:15 [Zakim]
sorry, Gui_, I do not recognize a party named 'Gui_'
12:42:18 [raphael]
zakim, unmute Gui
12:42:19 [Zakim]
Gui should no longer be muted
12:42:31 [silvia]
#t=0,0 could be written as #t=x,x
12:42:32 [mhausenblas]
Scribenick: Gui_
12:42:44 [Gui_]
zakim, mute Gui
12:42:44 [Zakim]
Gui should now be muted
12:43:04 [Gui_]
#t=x,x, where x=x
12:43:05 [conrad]
i think that in barcelona we were talking about a zero-duration media file as the output of this
12:43:05 [silvia]
where x is integer
12:43:37 [Gui_]
Can a "zero duration media" be returned?
12:44:24 [Gui_]
The resource exists, it's just that we return an empty fragment of it
12:45:19 [Gui_]
Should we be returning a frame as empty content?
12:45:49 [Gui_]
What is the purpose, a blank screen for Video, what about the case of Audio?
12:46:21 [Gui_]
Maybe this is useful as "place holders"
12:47:50 [Gui_]
Either we signal to the client that's it's a error (it's not allowed to do it) or it should be for some usage
12:48:42 [conrad]
Zakim, mute me
12:48:42 [Zakim]
Conrad should now be muted
12:49:17 [Gui_]
It could be in the content header, Content not acceptable 406 or 416 the requested range is not satisfiable
12:50:55 [silvia]
I think: 416 Requested Range Not Satisfiable
12:51:37 [raphael]
I think too Silvia
12:52:19 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: Michael to summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page
12:52:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-79 - Summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-05-20].
12:52:39 [Gui_]
For all the TC returning EMPTY, what should the response be to the UA be (see HTTP codes)?
12:52:42 [conrad]
i think 416 if and only if the fragment range was given in an HTTP Range request header; a different error notification method otherwise :-)
12:53:37 [Gui_]
We need to have these resolutions (on which HTTP codes we decide to use) written down
12:53:48 [silvia]
conrad: I assumed that, too
12:54:27 [conrad]
eg. #track= will not be handled through Range request
12:54:31 [mhausenblas]
RESOLUTION: The WG agrees that empty is not an error (as in 404) but a recoverable state
12:54:34 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:54:34 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:54:54 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, make logs public
12:55:01 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:55:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:55:17 [Gui_]
Summarize what would the different responses be depending on the request (range request, others)
12:56:37 [conrad]
i agree with silvia
12:56:41 [mhausenblas]
s/RESOLUTION:/RESOLVED:
12:56:44 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:56:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:56:51 [Gui_]
If the UA request a fragment of the entire duration, it should get notified with 206
12:56:51 [conrad]
but 200 for TC0
12:57:30 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
12:57:39 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
12:58:10 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
12:58:35 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
12:59:00 [Gui_]
zakim, unmute me
12:59:23 [Zakim]
sorry, Gui_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
12:59:42 [conrad]
Zakim, unmute Gui
13:00:01 [Gui_]
thanks conrad
13:00:03 [Zakim]
Gui should no longer be muted
13:00:49 [conrad]
+1
13:00:56 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
13:00:56 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
13:01:10 [conrad]
client should ignore stupid request and not bother wasting the server's time
13:01:46 [Gui_]
RESOLVE: We agree that the HTTP response code should be 200 for TC0000
13:02:09 [mhausenblas]
s/RESOLVE:/RESOLVED:
13:02:25 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:02:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:03:27 [Gui_]
RESOLVED: We agree that the HTTP response code should be 200 for TC0000, TC0001 should be 200 and the UA strip what's behind the #
13:03:59 [Gui_]
For TC0002-6, Michael as an action
13:04:00 [mhausenblas]
so that #t=, -> # which makes TC0001 == TC0001 ;)
13:04:19 [Gui_]
RESOLVED: The WG agrees that empty responses is NOT an error, so it's not a 404
13:04:21 [mhausenblas]
s/TC0001 == TC0001/TC0001 == TC0000
13:04:25 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:04:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:05:35 [conrad]
+1 mhausenblas (and if we don't specify the details, implementers will choose arbitrarily :)
13:05:44 [Gui_]
It takes a long time to go through the TC, we need to continue doing so. Michael, with our resolutions, will be able to reflect changes on the Wiki. Thanks Michael
13:05:58 [mhausenblas]
;) true, conrad. sad but true ;)
13:05:58 [Gui_]
we are running out of time, and closing the teleconf for today.
13:06:06 [Gui_]
Nothing futher to discuss? no!
13:06:15 [conrad]
ok!
13:06:20 [silvia]
cool :)
13:06:23 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:06:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:06:26 [conrad]
thanks all :-)
13:06:26 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
13:06:29 [Gui_]
Thanks you everyone! Have a nice week!
13:06:32 [Gui_]
Bye
13:06:33 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
13:06:35 [Zakim]
-mhausenblas
13:06:38 [mhausenblas]
[adjourned]
13:06:39 [Zakim]
-raphael
13:06:43 [Zakim]
-silvia
13:06:45 [Zakim]
-Gui
13:06:46 [Gui_]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:06:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html Gui_
13:06:49 [Zakim]
-Conrad
13:06:52 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()8:00AM has ended
13:06:53 [Zakim]
Attendees were mhausenblas, silvia, +1.712.841.aaaa, raphael, Gui, Conrad
13:07:02 [mhausenblas]
hang on
13:07:03 [Gui_]
trackbot, status
13:07:24 [mhausenblas]
s/Scribe: yes/Scribe: Guillaume
13:07:28 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:07:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:07:38 [mhausenblas]
too late ;)
13:07:56 [mhausenblas]
ah, worked, though
13:08:12 [Gui_]
Thank you Michael for the support during scribing, thanks Raf for the rehashing (re-#)
13:08:27 [mhausenblas]
welcome, Gui_
13:08:37 [Gui_]
thanks a lot!
13:08:41 [mhausenblas]
bye Zakim
13:08:53 [Gui_]
zakim, bye
13:08:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mediafrag
13:09:01 [mhausenblas]
;)
13:09:05 [Gui_]
rrsagent, bye
13:09:05 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
13:09:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Michael to summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page [1]
13:09:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc#T12-52-19