IRC log of mediafrag on 2009-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:01:16 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc

12:01:18 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

12:01:18 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #mediafrag

12:01:20 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG

12:01:20 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()8:00AM scheduled to start now

12:01:21 [trackbot]

Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference

12:01:21 [trackbot]

Date: 13 May 2009

12:02:04 [Gui]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0022.html

12:02:12 [raphael]

Chairs: Raphael

12:02:24 [Zakim]

IA_MFWG()8:00AM has now started

12:02:31 [Zakim]

+mhausenblas

12:02:34 [Zakim]

+silvia

12:02:49 [raphael]

Regrets: Yves, Erik, Davy,

12:03:03 [nessy]

zakim, mute me

12:03:03 [Zakim]

sorry, nessy, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

12:03:24 [silvia]

zakim, mute me

12:03:24 [Zakim]

silvia should now be muted

12:03:37 [Zakim]

+[CWI]

12:03:44 [Zakim]

+ +1.712.841.aaaa

12:03:51 [raphael]

zakim, [CWI] is raphael

12:03:51 [Zakim]

+raphael; got it

12:03:55 [silvia]

zakim, unmute me

12:03:55 [Zakim]

silvia should no longer be muted

12:04:03 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, aaaa is Gui

12:04:03 [Zakim]

+Gui; got it

12:04:11 [silvia]

zakim, mute me

12:04:11 [Zakim]

silvia should now be muted

12:04:28 [raphael]

Present: Silvia, Michael, Raphael, Gui, Conrad,

12:04:31 [Zakim]

+??P13

12:04:42 [raphael]

zakim, P13 is Conrad

12:04:42 [Zakim]

sorry, raphael, I do not recognize a party named 'P13'

12:04:45 [Gui]

zakim, mute me

12:04:45 [Zakim]

Gui should now be muted

12:04:48 [raphael]

zakim, ??P13 is Conrad

12:04:48 [Zakim]

+Conrad; got it

12:05:04 [conrad]

Zakim, mute me

12:05:04 [Zakim]

Conrad should now be muted

12:05:06 [Gui]

yes

12:05:09 [raphael]

Scribe: yes

12:05:13 [raphael]

Scribenick: yes

12:05:28 [mhausenblas]

Scribenick: Gui

12:05:44 [Gui]

TOPIC: ADMIN, next conference

12:05:53 [raphael]

Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-mediafrag-minutes.html

12:06:08 [raphael]

+1

12:06:15 [mhausenblas]

+1

12:06:15 [Gui]

Accepting minutes

12:06:18 [silvia]

+1

12:06:56 [Gui]

Ok, minutes of the 29 April 2009 telecom accepted

12:07:00 [silvia]

zakim, unmute me

12:07:00 [Zakim]

silvia should no longer be muted

12:07:02 [conrad]

Zakim, unmute me

12:07:02 [Zakim]

Conrad should no longer be muted

12:07:30 [silvia]

zakim, mute me

12:07:30 [Zakim]

silvia should now be muted

12:07:51 [conrad]

Zakim, mute me

12:07:51 [Zakim]

Conrad should now be muted

12:07:58 [Gui]

Zakim, unmute me

12:07:58 [Zakim]

Gui should no longer be muted

12:08:15 [raphael]

Summary: unlikely that Conrad, Silvia and Guillaume can make the Amsterdam meeting

12:08:29 [raphael]

... easier for Europeans (Michael, Jack, Raphael, what about Yves?)

12:08:31 [Gui]

Zakim, mute me

12:08:31 [Zakim]

Gui should now be muted

12:08:56 [Gui]

TOPIC: UC & Requirements

12:09:10 [Gui]

The working draft has been published

12:10:23 [Gui]

All actions arel ongoing

12:10:37 [conrad]

Zakim, unmute me

12:10:37 [Zakim]

Conrad should no longer be muted

12:11:00 [Gui]

TOPIC UA Server HTTP Communication

12:11:13 [raphael]

TOPIC: UA Server HTTP Communication

12:11:47 [Gui]

Conrad will discuss this at the next teleconf

12:12:04 [silvia]

zakim, unmute me

12:12:04 [Zakim]

silvia should no longer be muted

12:12:34 [Gui]

We need to start capturing what we recommend regarding the use of "?" and "#"

12:13:31 [Gui]

Silvia is getting inputs from the HTML5 mailing-list, any specific information that's relevant we should look at? Silvia and Conrad please keep track.

12:13:54 [raphael]

Raphael: in the next iteration of the document, we should clearly clarify the role of '#' and '?'

12:15:26 [Gui]

Further discussions about the MF syntax giving absolute times mechanism. It is a big requirement. Silvia to continue discuss with Thomas.

12:15:54 [conrad]

Zakim, mute me

12:15:54 [Zakim]

Conrad should now be muted

12:15:55 [silvia]

zakim, mute me

12:15:55 [Zakim]

silvia should now be muted

12:16:03 [Gui]

TOPIC: UA MF Resolution and Processing

12:16:05 [raphael]

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UserAgentMediaFragmentResolution

12:17:43 [Gui]

Michael would like to take us through the document at some point.

12:19:02 [Gui]

In the sequence of things, two things needs to be explained :

12:19:07 [Gui]

the template of HTTP headers

12:22:04 [silvia]

zakim, unmute me

12:22:04 [Zakim]

silvia should no longer be muted

12:22:36 [Zakim]

-Conrad

12:23:18 [raphael]

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_RTSP_Communication

12:23:55 [Zakim]

+??P13

12:24:13 [conrad]

zakim, P13 is Conrad

12:24:13 [Zakim]

sorry, conrad, I do not recognize a party named 'P13'

12:24:16 [mhausenblas]

zakim, ??P13 is Conrad

12:24:16 [Zakim]

+Conrad; got it

12:24:17 [silvia]

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2326.txt <- rtsp spec

12:24:36 [mhausenblas]

q+

12:24:44 [conrad]

Zakim, mute me

12:24:44 [Zakim]

Conrad should now be muted

12:25:06 [silvia]

zakim, mute me

12:25:06 [Zakim]

silvia should now be muted

12:25:11 [mhausenblas]

ack me

12:25:55 [silvia]

http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Image:Rtsp.jpg <- synchronise this picture with more details with the one for http

12:26:45 [mhausenblas]

thanks silvia

12:26:49 [silvia]

:)

12:27:24 [Gui]

TOPIC: TEST CASES

12:28:14 [conrad]

Zakim, unmute me

12:28:14 [Zakim]

Conrad should no longer be muted

12:28:21 [Gui]

Discussing the issues raised on the mailing list

12:28:41 [Gui]

e.g. t=10,

12:28:58 [Gui]

Is it good syntax or not?

12:29:27 [conrad]

Zakim, mute me

12:29:27 [Zakim]

Conrad should now be muted

12:29:33 [Gui]

Do we need to specify the media type as well for each test case?

12:31:16 [Gui]

1. the way to express the media type in the fragment syntax (only the server would need to know)

12:31:30 [Gui]

2. Write the media type inside the Test case results

12:31:49 [Gui]

(We need this data to be able to report on the test cases)

12:32:21 [Gui]

Zakim, unmute me

12:32:21 [Zakim]

Gui should no longer be muted

12:32:36 [raphael]

trackbot, status

12:32:48 [Gui]

Zakim, mute me

12:32:48 [Zakim]

Gui should now be muted

12:33:09 [Gui]

ISSUE: Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases?

12:33:10 [trackbot]

Created ISSUE-9 - Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9/edit .

12:33:29 [conrad]

Zakim, unmute me

12:33:29 [Zakim]

Conrad should no longer be muted

12:34:51 [silvia]

zakim, unmute me

12:34:51 [Zakim]

silvia should no longer be muted

12:35:16 [Gui]

Let's go through each test case and spend one or two minute on each during a teleconf (now?)

12:35:34 [mhausenblas]

+1

12:35:39 [silvia]

zakim, mute me

12:35:39 [Zakim]

silvia should now be muted

12:36:43 [conrad]

+1

12:36:48 [conrad]

Zakim, mute me

12:36:48 [Zakim]

Conrad should now be muted

12:37:32 [raphael]

TC0000: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases#TC0000:_empty_MF: reviewed and agreed

12:37:32 [Gui]

TC empty MF - Is there cases where the MF conforming UAs would behave differently?

12:37:58 [silvia]

+1

12:38:10 [silvia]

no

12:38:44 [Gui]

TC0001: undefined time segment - npt - Would we expect an output?

12:39:15 [Gui]

Do we agree that the output should be the entire resource?

12:39:35 [conrad]

Zakim, unmute me

12:39:35 [Zakim]

Conrad should no longer be muted

12:39:38 [Gui]

it should be unspecified?

12:40:32 [conrad]

Zakim, mute me pleeeaze

12:40:32 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'mute me pleeeaze', conrad

12:40:35 [conrad]

Zakim, mute me

12:40:35 [Zakim]

Conrad should now be muted

12:40:41 [Gui]

Gui has joined #mediafrag

12:40:51 [silvia]

I agree - it should be the entire resource

12:40:51 [conrad]

TC0001: +1

12:41:02 [mhausenblas]

Scribenick: mhausenblas

12:41:05 [Gui_]

Gui_ has joined #mediafrag

12:41:20 [mhausenblas]

RESOLVED: TC0001 accepted as proposed

12:41:25 [Gui_]

TC0002: empty time segment - npt

12:41:44 [conrad]

Zakim, unmute me

12:41:44 [Zakim]

Conrad should no longer be muted

12:41:53 [Gui_]

zakim, unmute me

12:41:53 [Zakim]

sorry, Gui_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

12:42:07 [raphael]

zakim, who is there?

12:42:07 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, raphael.

12:42:10 [raphael]

zakim, who is here?

12:42:10 [Zakim]

On the phone I see mhausenblas, silvia (muted), raphael, Gui (muted), Conrad

12:42:13 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Gui_, Zakim, RRSAgent, raphael, conrad, silvia, mhausenblas, Yves, trackbot

12:42:15 [Gui_]

Zakim, Gui_ is Gui

12:42:15 [Zakim]

sorry, Gui_, I do not recognize a party named 'Gui_'

12:42:18 [raphael]

zakim, unmute Gui

12:42:19 [Zakim]

Gui should no longer be muted

12:42:31 [silvia]

#t=0,0 could be written as #t=x,x

12:42:32 [mhausenblas]

Scribenick: Gui_

12:42:44 [Gui_]

zakim, mute Gui

12:42:44 [Zakim]

Gui should now be muted

12:43:04 [Gui_]

#t=x,x, where x=x

12:43:05 [conrad]

i think that in barcelona we were talking about a zero-duration media file as the output of this

12:43:05 [silvia]

where x is integer

12:43:37 [Gui_]

Can a "zero duration media" be returned?

12:44:24 [Gui_]

The resource exists, it's just that we return an empty fragment of it

12:45:19 [Gui_]

Should we be returning a frame as empty content?

12:45:49 [Gui_]

What is the purpose, a blank screen for Video, what about the case of Audio?

12:46:21 [Gui_]

Maybe this is useful as "place holders"

12:47:50 [Gui_]

Either we signal to the client that's it's a error (it's not allowed to do it) or it should be for some usage

12:48:42 [conrad]

Zakim, mute me

12:48:42 [Zakim]

Conrad should now be muted

12:49:17 [Gui_]

It could be in the content header, Content not acceptable 406 or 416 the requested range is not satisfiable

12:50:55 [silvia]

I think: 416 Requested Range Not Satisfiable

12:51:37 [raphael]

I think too Silvia

12:52:19 [mhausenblas]

ACTION: Michael to summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page

12:52:19 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-79 - Summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-05-20].

12:52:39 [Gui_]

For all the TC returning EMPTY, what should the response be to the UA be (see HTTP codes)?

12:52:42 [conrad]

i think 416 if and only if the fragment range was given in an HTTP Range request header; a different error notification method otherwise :-)

12:53:37 [Gui_]

We need to have these resolutions (on which HTTP codes we decide to use) written down

12:53:48 [silvia]

conrad: I assumed that, too

12:54:27 [conrad]

eg. #track= will not be handled through Range request

12:54:31 [mhausenblas]

RESOLUTION: The WG agrees that empty is not an error (as in 404) but a recoverable state

12:54:34 [silvia]

zakim, unmute me

12:54:34 [Zakim]

silvia should no longer be muted

12:54:54 [mhausenblas]

rrsagent, make logs public

12:55:01 [mhausenblas]

rrsagent, draft minutes

12:55:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas

12:55:17 [Gui_]

Summarize what would the different responses be depending on the request (range request, others)

12:56:37 [conrad]

i agree with silvia

12:56:41 [mhausenblas]

s/RESOLUTION:/RESOLVED:

12:56:44 [mhausenblas]

rrsagent, draft minutes

12:56:44 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas

12:56:51 [Gui_]

If the UA request a fragment of the entire duration, it should get notified with 206

12:56:51 [conrad]

but 200 for TC0

12:57:30 [silvia]

zakim, mute me

12:57:39 [Zakim]

silvia should now be muted

12:58:10 [silvia]

zakim, unmute me

12:58:35 [Zakim]

silvia should no longer be muted

12:59:00 [Gui_]

zakim, unmute me

12:59:23 [Zakim]

sorry, Gui_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

12:59:42 [conrad]

Zakim, unmute Gui

13:00:01 [Gui_]

thanks conrad

13:00:03 [Zakim]

Gui should no longer be muted

13:00:49 [conrad]

+1

13:00:56 [silvia]

zakim, mute me

13:00:56 [Zakim]

silvia should now be muted

13:01:10 [conrad]

client should ignore stupid request and not bother wasting the server's time

13:01:46 [Gui_]

RESOLVE: We agree that the HTTP response code should be 200 for TC0000

13:02:09 [mhausenblas]

s/RESOLVE:/RESOLVED:

13:02:25 [mhausenblas]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:02:25 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas

13:03:27 [Gui_]

RESOLVED: We agree that the HTTP response code should be 200 for TC0000, TC0001 should be 200 and the UA strip what's behind the #

13:03:59 [Gui_]

For TC0002-6, Michael as an action

13:04:00 [mhausenblas]

so that #t=, -> # which makes TC0001 == TC0001 ;)

13:04:19 [Gui_]

RESOLVED: The WG agrees that empty responses is NOT an error, so it's not a 404

13:04:21 [mhausenblas]

s/TC0001 == TC0001/TC0001 == TC0000

13:04:25 [mhausenblas]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:04:25 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas

13:05:35 [conrad]

+1 mhausenblas (and if we don't specify the details, implementers will choose arbitrarily :)

13:05:44 [Gui_]

It takes a long time to go through the TC, we need to continue doing so. Michael, with our resolutions, will be able to reflect changes on the Wiki. Thanks Michael

13:05:58 [mhausenblas]

;) true, conrad. sad but true ;)

13:05:58 [Gui_]

we are running out of time, and closing the teleconf for today.

13:06:06 [Gui_]

Nothing futher to discuss? no!

13:06:15 [conrad]

ok!

13:06:20 [silvia]

cool :)

13:06:23 [mhausenblas]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:06:23 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas

13:06:26 [conrad]

thanks all :-)

13:06:26 [silvia]

zakim, unmute me

13:06:29 [Gui_]

Thanks you everyone! Have a nice week!

13:06:32 [Gui_]

Bye

13:06:33 [Zakim]

silvia should no longer be muted

13:06:35 [Zakim]

-mhausenblas

13:06:38 [mhausenblas]

[adjourned]

13:06:39 [Zakim]

-raphael

13:06:43 [Zakim]

-silvia

13:06:45 [Zakim]

-Gui

13:06:46 [Gui_]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:06:46 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html Gui_

13:06:49 [Zakim]

-Conrad

13:06:52 [Zakim]

IA_MFWG()8:00AM has ended

13:06:53 [Zakim]

Attendees were mhausenblas, silvia, +1.712.841.aaaa, raphael, Gui, Conrad

13:07:02 [mhausenblas]

hang on

13:07:03 [Gui_]

trackbot, status

13:07:24 [mhausenblas]

s/Scribe: yes/Scribe: Guillaume

13:07:28 [mhausenblas]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:07:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas

13:07:38 [mhausenblas]

too late ;)

13:07:56 [mhausenblas]

ah, worked, though

13:08:12 [Gui_]

Thank you Michael for the support during scribing, thanks Raf for the rehashing (re-#)

13:08:27 [mhausenblas]

welcome, Gui_

13:08:37 [Gui_]

thanks a lot!

13:08:41 [mhausenblas]

bye Zakim

13:08:53 [Gui_]

zakim, bye

13:08:53 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #mediafrag

13:09:01 [mhausenblas]

;)

13:09:05 [Gui_]

rrsagent, bye

13:09:05 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-actions.rdf :

13:09:05 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael to summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page [1]

13:09:05 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc#T12-52-19