14:49:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:49:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-forms-irc
14:49:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:49:30 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
14:49:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML_Forms
14:49:32 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_Forms()10:45AM scheduled to start 4 minutes ago
14:49:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
14:49:33 <trackbot> Date: 13 May 2009
14:49:43 <nick> zakim, code?
14:49:43 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), nick
14:50:52 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has now started
14:50:59 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
14:51:43 <unl> unl has joined #forms
14:53:03 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has joined #forms
14:53:04 <Zakim> +unl
14:53:10 <Zakim> +John_Boyer
14:53:18 <unl> zakim, mute me
14:53:19 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
14:54:34 <nick> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009May/0024.html
14:54:53 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009May/0024.html
14:55:12 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
14:55:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Nick_van_den_Bleeken, unl (muted), John_Boyer
14:55:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see John_Boyer, unl, Zakim, RRSAgent, nick, wiecha, Steven, markbirbeck, trackbot
14:56:05 <John_Boyer> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009May/0024.html
14:56:10 <John_Boyer> Chair: John
14:56:22 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:56:22 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:56:24 <Zakim> +Steven
14:58:52 <John_Boyer> scribe: Nick
14:59:01 <John_Boyer> scribenick: nick
15:01:31 <unl> hixie's proposal is at http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-May/019681.html
15:02:38 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:02:44 <wiecha> zakim, [IBM] is wiecha
15:02:44 <Zakim> +wiecha; got it
15:04:31 <nick> Topic: XForms 1.1 Implementation report
15:04:53 <nick> XSLTForms to list of implementations   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2009Apr/0002.html 
15:05:06 <nick> John: Steven cqn you contqct them
15:06:22 <nick> Nick: Steven can you ask them to provide us the standard test suite results XML 
15:06:44 <nick> ... if they want to be included in the implementation report
15:07:06 <unl> s/cqn/can/
15:07:21 <nick> John: They just want to be listed as an implementation
15:07:25 <unl> s/contqct/contact/
15:08:11 <nick> Steven: OK I will contact them, and ask if they will run the test suite
15:08:31 <Steven> Done
15:08:43 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2009Mar/0000.html
15:08:48 <nick> Steven: Sent the email
15:09:31 <nick> TOPIC: None XML content in xf:instance
15:10:21 <nick> John: The src attribute is resolved first, if absent then we look at in-line content, if not we look at resource,
15:10:50 <nick> John: You might to include white space or a comment as in-line content
15:11:16 <nick> ... if the in-line content is other then empty content we try parse
15:11:51 <nick> Nick: The in-line content is already parsed
15:12:12 <Steven> s/other then/other than/
15:12:23 <nick> John: I mean it just checks if the content is a valid document (only one element)
15:12:43 <nick> ... if not we fail the process 
15:13:56 <nick> John: Can we ignore it for now, or maybe even for the future
15:14:31 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.1/index-diff.html#structure-model-instance
15:14:41 <nick> Nick: Do we specify what 'empty' is? Maybe we can tread white space and/or comment nodes as empty
15:15:35 <unl> s/tread/treat/
15:16:24 <nick> (Reading the spec)
15:19:46 <nick> John: in-line content is well defined in the XML spec, so white space and/or comment nodes will be seen as in-line content
15:22:27 <nick> john elaborates about the difference between an end tag on the same line and the next line
15:24:22 <nick> nick: It might be hard for someone to realize what the problem is
15:25:40 <nick> nick: We don't need to fix it now, but maybe for the future, if the rest of the group thinks it isn't that a big deal it is fine for me
15:26:17 <nick> (group decides __not__ to put it on the future features list
15:27:23 <nick> Steven: I will send an e-mail thanking him for the comment, but that we will not change the spec because it is to late, and the error will be clear
15:27:52 <nick> ... the processing rules will be easier, bcz we can use the XML definition of content
15:28:33 <nick> Topic: Updating FF Plugin report for 8.1.6.b 
15:28:38 <nick> Nick: This is done
15:28:46 <nick> Topic: Problem with interpreting xsi:nil 
15:29:06 <wiecha> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#model-prop-required
15:29:09 <nick> Charlie: Look at section 6.1.3
15:30:38 <nick> (Charlie walks us through the spec)
15:31:25 <nick> ... Explains what xsi:nil means
15:31:47 <John_Boyer> A schema may indicate that an element is "nillable", at which point an element may have xsi:nil is true when the element content is empty
15:33:04 <nick> Charly: rule 2 can't be true for xsi:nill equal to true if schema rules are applied
15:33:30 <nick> s/Charly/Charlie/
15:35:54 <nick> John: We wanted to define what non empty means, the additional statement about xsi:nil was added to clarify that an element with xsi:nil to true with empty content doesn't satisfy the required property. 
15:37:25 <nick> John: I understand that it is hard test, because you can't pass schema validation for xsi:nil to true and have content
15:38:01 <nick> Charlie: We don't want to change the meaning of required, to allow xsi:nil to true as required
15:38:23 <nick> s/as required/as passing the required contsraint/
15:42:02 <nick> John: What is the purpose of the required property?Is it that the user has to answer a question, or has to answer it with a none-empty string (like it is now)
15:47:06 <nick> Charlie: We should change point 1 to a note
15:48:18 <nick> ... explain that xsi:nil has no impact on the required property
15:49:07 <nick> John: Steven can we treat this as an editorial note
15:49:17 <nick> Steven: yes
15:49:55 <nick> Charlie: Still concerned about how xsi:nil is treated in XForms
15:51:35 <John_Boyer> Action: John to write clarifying note in 6.1.3 to explain the non-impact of xsi:nil true on the definition of required MIP, rather than having the two rules for non-empty definition
15:51:35 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John
15:51:35 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)
15:53:42 <nick> ACTION: Nick to remove test 6.1.3.b and update the implentation reports
15:53:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-540 - Remove test 6.1.3.b and update the implentation reports [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2009-05-20].
15:54:35 <nick> John: So we only need to make the changes for targetid and targetref
15:54:54 <nick> Topic : Test suite changes
15:55:03 <unl> not yet 
15:55:05 <unl> sorry
15:55:08 <unl> next week
15:55:14 <nick> John: Did you add the license to the test suite
15:55:18 <nick> Nick: Yes
15:55:32 <unl> yes
15:55:43 <nick> John: Uli did you fixed to non XMLnes of the test suite
15:56:00 <nick> Uil: no will do for next week
15:56:19 <nick> s/Uil/Uli/
15:57:13 <nick> John: We will knock down the targetid and targetref this week
15:57:38 <Zakim> -wiecha
15:57:46 <nick> TOPIC: FtF agenda and rechartering
15:59:14 <nick> Steven: Regarding the FtF there would be an XForms event, but it is only an evening event, this my give me a problem for traveling
15:59:30 <nick> John: I'm concerned that we will get a good turnup
16:01:42 <nick> Nick: can't commit at coming to the FtF at this moment
16:02:09 <nick> John: Mark will turn up, the evening event will be enough for Charlie, but that is three
16:02:26 <nick> John: Should we decide for doing a virtual FtF
16:02:54 <nick> Steven: If we are only with 3-4 is it worth the travel
16:03:08 <nick> John: Steven can you attend a virtual FtF
16:03:39 <nick> Steven: Yes, no problem, I surely can attend a virtual FtF
16:03:46 <unl> zakim, unmute me
16:03:47 <Zakim> unl should no longer be muted
16:04:15 <nick> Uli: I will come to the FtF
16:04:27 <nick> Uli: I can attend a virtual FtF
16:05:29 <nick> Steven: I think we need XForms 2 to get more members
16:06:51 <unl> zakim, mute me
16:06:51 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
16:07:10 <nick> John: It is pretty big risk at this point to go for a real FtF
16:09:37 <nick> John: I think we should switch to a virtual FtF
16:09:48 <nick> John: It are the 5 hours
16:12:08 <nick> John: We should go for a virtual FtF
16:12:24 <unl> zakim, unmute me
16:12:24 <Zakim> unl should no longer be muted
16:12:47 <nick> John: OK then we are doing a virtual FtF 
16:15:17 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:15:18 <Zakim> -unl
16:15:19 <Zakim> -Steven
16:15:20 <Zakim> -John_Boyer
16:15:22 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended
16:15:23 <Zakim> Attendees were Nick_van_den_Bleeken, unl, John_Boyer, Steven, wiecha
16:16:10 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make minutes
16:16:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
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