12:58:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
12:58:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-egov-irc
12:58:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:58:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV
12:58:40 <trackbot> Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:58:40 <trackbot> Date: 13 May 2009
12:58:48 <josema> zakim, who's here?
12:58:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot
12:59:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started
12:59:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P15
12:59:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:59:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot
12:59:59 <Zakim> +Rodrigo
13:00:01 <Zakim> + +1.202.626.aaaa
13:00:04 <John> I am on my iPhone for IRC
13:00:11 <josema> zakim, Rodrigo is me
13:00:17 <Zakim> +josema; got it
13:00:23 <Zakim> +??P33
13:00:30 <davemc> ya'll aren't hearing me, will dial back in
13:00:52 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
13:01:20 <Zakim> +Rachel
13:01:26 <josema> zakim, aaaa is Kevin
13:01:26 <Zakim> +Kevin; got it
13:01:40 <Rachel> Rachel has joined #egov
13:01:41 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov
13:01:48 <Zakim> +??P7
13:01:54 <josema> zakim, IPcaller is Owen
13:01:54 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
13:02:01 <josema> zakim, [IPcaller] is Owen
13:02:01 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
13:02:05 <josema> zakim, who's here?
13:02:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P15, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, ??P7
13:02:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot
13:02:14 <josema> zakim, ??P7 is dave
13:02:20 <Zakim> +dave; got it
13:02:20 <josema> zakim, ??P7 is davemc
13:02:28 <Zakim> I already had ??P7 as dave, josema
13:02:34 <josema> zakim, dave is davemc
13:02:40 <Zakim> +davemc; got it
13:03:05 <josema> zakim, ??P15 is probably John
13:03:20 <Zakim> +John?; got it
13:03:41 <josema> agenda?
13:03:49 <josema> zakim, who's noisy?
13:04:46 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Rachel (63%), Kevin (89%)
13:05:18 <josema> zakim, who's here?
13:05:19 <Zakim> + +1.202.564.aabb
13:05:29 <davemc> pretty responsive here
13:05:31 <Zakim> + +1.202.319.aacc - is perhaps Daniel_Bennett
13:05:33 <josema> zakim, aabb is probably Brand
13:05:41 <Daniel_Bennett> yes, aabb is Daniel
13:05:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see John?, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, davemc, +1.202.564.aabb, Daniel_Bennett
13:05:47 <josema> zakim, who's here?
13:05:55 <Zakim> +Brand?; got it
13:06:03 <josema> zakim, aabb is Brand
13:06:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see John?, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, davemc, Brand?, Daniel_Bennett
13:06:08 <Daniel_Bennett> whoops 202-319-aabb is Daniel
13:06:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot
13:06:15 <josema> it's fine :)
13:06:21 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
13:07:06 <josema> zakim, who's here?
13:07:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see John?, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, davemc, Brand?, Daniel_Bennett
13:07:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot
13:07:31 <josema> zakim, ??P33 is probably Owen
13:07:31 <Zakim> +Owen?; got it
13:07:49 <josema> chairs: john, kevin
13:07:55 <Daniel_Bennett> is Twibe official?
13:08:00 <josema> take up next agendum
13:08:13 <josema> kevin: any volunteers?
13:08:23 <josema> ... adjustments?
13:08:38 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin wanted to discuss the panel this summer
13:08:49 <josema> scribe: josema
13:08:53 <josema> agenda?
13:09:03 <josema> take up next agendum
13:09:19 <josema> [kevin thanks everybody for the work on the Note]
13:09:47 <josema> [kevin refers to: http://thedesignstate.com/national-design-policy-council-video/]
13:10:51 <josema> kevin: doc puts up in very good position to help governments
13:11:15 <josema> john: agree, kevin also sent appreciation note to Jose's W3C collagues
13:11:23 <josema> ...I'm sure we all endorse as group
13:11:35 <davemc> +! Kudos to Jose are deserved
13:11:40 <josema> ...think this will be an important resource for people
13:14:01 <Zakim> + +34.63.557.aadd
13:14:29 <josema> [jose thanks all and is happy to see this finally published, eager to discuss next steps]
13:14:35 <josema> zakim, aadd is oscar
13:14:35 <Zakim> +oscar; got it
13:15:00 <josema> owen: also sent message to several lists
13:15:10 <josema> daniel: great work, what next?
13:15:19 <Zakim> + +1.512.797.aaee
13:15:32 <josema> owen: what about timbl + kevin to meet with Kundra?
13:15:42 <josema> kevin: I'd be happy to do so
13:16:33 <josema> zakim, who's noisy?
13:16:43 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: John? (29%)
13:17:30 <josema> zakim, aaee is sharron
13:17:30 <Zakim> +sharron; got it
13:17:39 <josema> agenda?
13:18:56 <josema> [jose mentions charter extension]
13:19:20 <josema> take up next agendum
13:22:21 <Zakim> -oscar
13:22:57 <josema> [john gives summary of EU PSI directive, COM, status]
13:23:42 <josema> [on PSI directive: http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/psi/actions_eu/policy_actions/index_en.htm]
13:23:49 <josema> s/PSI/EU PSI
13:24:06 <josema> [john on need of transposition and deadlines]
13:25:21 <Sharron> Sharron has joined #egov
13:25:58 <josema> john: enabling people to create their own services have helped move the agenda in the UK
13:26:25 <Zakim> +oscar
13:27:09 <Zakim> +Ken
13:27:13 <Zakim> -sharron
13:28:44 <Zakim> +sharron
13:28:58 <josema> jose: the examples in the COM caught my eye
13:29:22 <josema> COM: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2009:0212:FIN:EN:PDF
13:29:52 <josema> john: I'm not planning to go to SemTech at the moment
13:30:13 <josema> kevin: there's opportunity to speak but no travel funding
13:31:05 <josema> [open government initiative event]
13:31:43 <josema> ->http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009May/0035 thread start
13:32:01 <josema> s/initiative/innovations
13:32:16 <josema> [opportunity to organize a panel there]
13:32:36 <josema> s/[opportunity to organize a panel there]/daniel: opportunity to organize a panel there
13:32:52 <josema> ... some volunteered, plan to organize the panel around the Note content
13:33:15 <josema> [personal democracy forum]
13:34:06 <josema> daniel: held yearly in NYC, went last year, end of June this year
13:34:28 <josema> ...hosted by TechPresident, several high profiles speakers
13:35:00 <josema> kevin: do you see opportunity to participate there wrt Note?
13:35:23 <josema> daniel: I can ask Micah Sifry
13:35:29 <josema> zakim, who's noisy?
13:35:39 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: oscar (28%), John? (99%)
13:35:44 <josema> zakim, mute oscar
13:35:44 <Zakim> oscar should now be muted
13:36:16 <Zakim> -oscar
13:36:18 <josema> john: we have a meeting tomorrow, Beth Noveck to give talk via videolink on OGD
13:37:05 <josema> ...easy to find, easy to use, easy to reuse ?? is the title
13:38:19 <josema> [kevin re-reads activity plan and asks people to let group know of opportunities where we could talk about Note]
13:40:00 <josema> take up next agendum
13:40:31 <Zakim> +oscar
13:40:32 <josema> [kevin reminds satisfaction after challenging initial period]
13:42:30 <davemc> go for it.  Let's hear them
13:43:24 <Rachel> one challenge - learning w3c operating procedures, took a while for group to get up to speed
13:43:50 <kevin> just a quick note that the twibe group EGOV is official. I set it up last week
13:44:12 <Rachel> VERY important for folks to take turns scribing
13:44:48 <Rachel> if Jose scribes, his time is divided between talking & typing and it is hard to do both well
13:45:12 <davemc> I didn't attend the f2f, but the minutes were quite useful in coming up to speed.
13:45:20 <Rachel> so Step Up people!!!!!
13:46:19 <Zakim> -Brand?
13:46:25 <Rachel> ideas - appoint a scribe at end of one call, to scribe the next call.
13:46:46 <Rachel> Idea - if you are assigned to scribe and can't make the meeting, you are responsible to find a replacement
13:46:47 <josema> scribe: Rachel
13:47:04 <josema> dave refers to this one: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Scribe_List
13:47:04 <Rachel> idea - if no one steps up to scribe, there is no meeting
13:48:22 <Rachel> one challenge as group started was that most participants were new to w3c, new to IRC, may not have had access to IRC from work computer
13:48:24 <John> I liked Daniel's suggestion
13:48:43 <John> as a step
13:49:23 <davemc> +1 Daniel's suggestion
13:49:52 <josema> [Daniel volunteers to scribe next meeting]
13:50:48 <Rachel> one barrier to scribing is not being familiar w/voices & names
13:50:49 <John> Like Sharron did at our last meeting
13:51:16 <Rachel> if you are new to the group, ask speakers to identify themselves before speaking
13:51:18 <josema> [Sharron volunteers as backup]
13:53:43 <josema> [Rachel volunteers to edit docs]
13:54:17 <josema> kevin: "rapid issue releases"
13:54:17 <John> Exactly +1
13:54:23 <josema> +1
13:54:27 <davemc> +1
13:54:45 <John> No more 'war and peace'
13:55:08 <John> (as in the novel)
13:55:25 <Zakim> -oscar
13:58:05 <josema> scribe: josema
13:58:25 <josema> [john on http://sandbox.opsi.gov.uk/]
13:58:34 <Zakim> +oscar
13:58:45 <josema> zakim, unmute oscar
13:58:45 <Zakim> oscar was not muted, josema
13:59:20 <josema> john: if you want to talk about something you need to be able to identify it
13:59:38 <josema> ...e.g. you need to be able to point to a paragraph
14:00:04 <John> You can't "mash" a PDF easily
14:00:39 <josema> daniel: putting stuff up in XML allows for this sort of stuff
14:00:45 <josema> ...using XPointer, etc.
14:01:09 <davemc> let's discuss mashing PDF separately.   Technical point of order
14:02:10 <josema> owen: I think that john's example is interesting to show that governments do not get it
14:02:25 <John> +1
14:02:28 <josema> ...XML->PDF automatically is doable, opposite not true
14:02:55 <josema> dave: PDF purpose is to show exact replica of doc, not to have pointers to this or that
14:03:25 <josema> ...XML made for that, not a PDF expert but heard from them it's even possible with PDF
14:03:58 <John> Is bad PDF like bad HTML - you can do better but people often don't?
14:04:20 <josema> kevin: respect both paths here, we want to provide as much data as possible
14:04:44 <davemc> PDF to XPDF is available via free technology from Adobe  http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/mars/
14:04:46 <josema> daniel: we should not shy away with getting into discussion about formats with respect
14:05:12 <John> yup, the point is the URI
14:05:30 <josema> dave: agree and believe there are principles that could be applicable to a variety of formats
14:06:00 <josema> oscar: PDF is wonderful technology, but I was trying to point out in the doc it's difficult to get data out
14:06:24 <josema> ...probably a technology that it's used in the wrong context in many cases, hence the issues
14:06:38 <josema> ...this is something we could also work on in the future
14:06:50 <josema> ...formats are of paramount importance
14:07:02 <josema> daniel: sandbox stuff is wonderful
14:07:22 <josema> ...having techniques for dealing with that sort of information is always useful
14:08:55 <josema> dave: US Courts have 350Mio docs in PDFs, we should be careful not to break the leal tracks when structuring the data
14:09:26 <josema> rachel: 99% of people dealing with content don't have a clear idea of what XML, this needs a cultural change, capability building
14:10:29 <josema> daniel: brilliant point
14:11:09 <josema> rachel: people do not easily move to do something differently
14:11:38 <josema> kevin: I believe those are things to potentially incorporate in 2nd charter
14:11:59 <josema> ...better communication to ???
14:12:12 <josema> ...is that something we want to build onto?
14:12:35 <josema> dave: agree???
14:12:41 <josema> agenda?
14:13:36 <John> We just drifted - no conspiracy :)
14:16:15 <John> my view, we worked best as one group
14:16:22 <josema> [jose on TFs expectations different from outcome]
14:16:47 <josema> oscar: agree, don't think they have worked very well, we might want to explore something different
14:17:16 <Sharron> agree, re-org is good idea
14:20:02 <dmcallis> dmcallis has joined #egov
14:20:02 <Zakim> -davemc
14:20:16 <dmcallis> sorry, my internet connection dropped
14:20:25 <josema> rachel: suggest to have a pre-marketing plan for next docs
14:20:30 <josema> kevin: agree
14:21:13 <dmcallis> dmcallis has left #egov
14:21:45 <josema> owen: key issue is to identify and establish comms with stakeholders
14:22:51 <josema> take up next agendum
14:22:51 <Rachel> also identify channels where we want to distribute message - twitter, etc
14:23:26 <josema> kevin: need to get a draft of 2nd charter in June
14:24:11 <josema> kevin: homework assignment: should the IG focus on less topics?
14:24:30 <josema> ...think about it, go through paper, identify some
14:24:45 <josema> ...I feel each of major areas in paper are very timely and applicable
14:25:00 <josema> ...I'd like to preserve those categories if doable with resources we have
14:25:07 <John> maybe we should do a 'divide the dollar' exercise to priopritise?
14:25:26 <josema> owen: point is who wants to work on what?
14:25:49 <josema> ...I'd be more than willing to document goals and stakeholders in StratML
14:25:55 <josema> oscar: I'd need some time to think about it
14:26:02 <josema> ...start thread by email
14:27:34 <josema> daniel: I would be a little bit worried about trying to do many things at once
14:27:58 <josema> ...as owen said we should question ourselves if we are meeting stakeholders' needs
14:28:47 <josema> john: I think we need to prioritize, we cover a broad are now on Note
14:29:02 <josema> ...we need to pick those places where we can make most impact
14:29:15 <josema> ...strongest level of participation and expertise
14:29:24 <josema> ...go through a conversation as a group
14:29:29 <josema> ...to identify them
14:29:37 <josema> +1
14:30:10 <josema> kevin: I think we are all saying same thing, agree with both
14:30:48 <josema> ...March F2F had great participation that allowed us to be where we are today
14:31:28 <josema> ...reason why I'm also interested in marketing our efforts, led to this good position
14:31:44 <josema> rachel: what are the end result we want for stage 2?
14:32:02 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:32:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-egov-minutes.html josema
14:32:26 <josema> kevin: I think we need to start solving what we can solve out of those issues we identified already
14:32:34 <Zakim> -oscar
14:32:38 <John> +1
14:32:53 <josema> ...we have lots of questions in there, need to address them
14:32:55 <josema> +1
14:33:07 <John> plural - documents
14:34:01 <josema> john: no way we'll solve all issues identified
14:34:21 <josema> ...but if we focus well we can achieve success in small amounts
14:34:25 <josema> ...going step by step
14:34:38 <Zakim> -sharron
14:34:40 <Sharron> must go, bye all til next time.
14:35:36 <josema> kevin: I think we need to be open
14:35:59 <John> so, year 2, solutions to issues, severaldocs, but agile and responsive 
14:37:40 <John> Normative sounds scary...
14:38:07 <josema> not that much ;)
14:38:45 <josema> ACTION: josema to send message to list about different publishing options rec/BPS/etc.
14:38:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - Send message to list about different publishing options rec/BPS/etc. [on José Manuel Alonso - due 2009-05-20].
14:39:41 <josema> owen: +1 to produce smaller docs and reference better existing ones
14:41:01 <josema> kevin: can everybody commit to submit messages with ideas, description as specific as possible around this next week, get together in 2 weeks time and review that list and build consensus around it?
14:41:05 <josema> [all agree]
14:42:01 <josema> [kevin to touch base with Karen get back to group on marketing plan]
14:43:54 <josema> [ADJOURNED]
14:44:04 <Zakim> -Kevin
14:44:06 <Zakim> -josema
14:44:07 <Zakim> -Daniel_Bennett
14:44:07 <Zakim> -Rachel
14:44:09 <Zakim> -Ken
14:44:10 <Zakim> -John?
14:44:10 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
14:44:11 <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], +1.202.626.aaaa, josema, Rachel, Kevin, davemc, John?, +1.202.564.aabb, +1.202.319.aacc, Brand?, Owen?, +34.63.557.aadd, oscar, +1.512.797.aaee, sharron,
14:44:13 <Zakim> ... Ken
14:44:21 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:44:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-egov-minutes.html josema
14:51:02 <John> John has left #egov
16:13:42 <davemc> davemc has joined #egov
16:14:24 <davemc> davemc has joined #egov
16:15:02 <davemc> davemc has left #egov
17:12:56 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #egov