IRC log of egov on 2009-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:58:35 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #egov
12:58:35 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:58:37 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:58:39 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be EGOV
12:58:40 [trackbot]
Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:58:40 [trackbot]
Date: 13 May 2009
12:58:48 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
12:58:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot
12:59:01 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started
12:59:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P15
12:59:37 [Zakim]
12:59:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot
12:59:59 [Zakim]
13:00:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.626.aaaa
13:00:04 [John]
I am on my iPhone for IRC
13:00:11 [josema]
zakim, Rodrigo is me
13:00:17 [Zakim]
+josema; got it
13:00:23 [Zakim]
13:00:30 [davemc]
ya'll aren't hearing me, will dial back in
13:00:52 [Zakim]
13:01:20 [Zakim]
13:01:26 [josema]
zakim, aaaa is Kevin
13:01:26 [Zakim]
+Kevin; got it
13:01:40 [Rachel]
Rachel has joined #egov
13:01:41 [Daniel_Bennett]
Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov
13:01:48 [Zakim]
13:01:54 [josema]
zakim, IPcaller is Owen
13:01:54 [Zakim]
sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
13:02:01 [josema]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Owen
13:02:01 [Zakim]
sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
13:02:05 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
13:02:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P15, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, ??P7
13:02:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot
13:02:14 [josema]
zakim, ??P7 is dave
13:02:20 [Zakim]
+dave; got it
13:02:20 [josema]
zakim, ??P7 is davemc
13:02:28 [Zakim]
I already had ??P7 as dave, josema
13:02:34 [josema]
zakim, dave is davemc
13:02:40 [Zakim]
+davemc; got it
13:03:05 [josema]
zakim, ??P15 is probably John
13:03:20 [Zakim]
+John?; got it
13:03:41 [josema]
13:03:49 [josema]
zakim, who's noisy?
13:04:46 [Zakim]
josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Rachel (63%), Kevin (89%)
13:05:18 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
13:05:19 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.564.aabb
13:05:29 [davemc]
pretty responsive here
13:05:31 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.319.aacc - is perhaps Daniel_Bennett
13:05:33 [josema]
zakim, aabb is probably Brand
13:05:41 [Daniel_Bennett]
yes, aabb is Daniel
13:05:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John?, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, davemc, +1.202.564.aabb, Daniel_Bennett
13:05:47 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
13:05:55 [Zakim]
+Brand?; got it
13:06:03 [josema]
zakim, aabb is Brand
13:06:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John?, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, davemc, Brand?, Daniel_Bennett
13:06:08 [Daniel_Bennett]
whoops 202-319-aabb is Daniel
13:06:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot
13:06:15 [josema]
it's fine :)
13:06:21 [Zakim]
sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
13:07:06 [josema]
zakim, who's here?
13:07:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John?, josema, Kevin, ??P33, Rachel, davemc, Brand?, Daniel_Bennett
13:07:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Daniel_Bennett, Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Zakim, davemc, John, josema, kevin, trackbot
13:07:31 [josema]
zakim, ??P33 is probably Owen
13:07:31 [Zakim]
+Owen?; got it
13:07:49 [josema]
chairs: john, kevin
13:07:55 [Daniel_Bennett]
is Twibe official?
13:08:00 [josema]
take up next agendum
13:08:13 [josema]
kevin: any volunteers?
13:08:23 [josema]
... adjustments?
13:08:38 [Daniel_Bennett]
Kevin wanted to discuss the panel this summer
13:08:49 [josema]
scribe: josema
13:08:53 [josema]
13:09:03 [josema]
take up next agendum
13:09:19 [josema]
[kevin thanks everybody for the work on the Note]
13:09:47 [josema]
[kevin refers to:]
13:10:51 [josema]
kevin: doc puts up in very good position to help governments
13:11:15 [josema]
john: agree, kevin also sent appreciation note to Jose's W3C collagues
13:11:23 [josema]
...I'm sure we all endorse as group
13:11:35 [davemc]
+! Kudos to Jose are deserved
13:11:40 [josema]
...think this will be an important resource for people
13:14:01 [Zakim]
+ +34.63.557.aadd
13:14:29 [josema]
[jose thanks all and is happy to see this finally published, eager to discuss next steps]
13:14:35 [josema]
zakim, aadd is oscar
13:14:35 [Zakim]
+oscar; got it
13:15:00 [josema]
owen: also sent message to several lists
13:15:10 [josema]
daniel: great work, what next?
13:15:19 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.797.aaee
13:15:32 [josema]
owen: what about timbl + kevin to meet with Kundra?
13:15:42 [josema]
kevin: I'd be happy to do so
13:16:33 [josema]
zakim, who's noisy?
13:16:43 [Zakim]
josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: John? (29%)
13:17:30 [josema]
zakim, aaee is sharron
13:17:30 [Zakim]
+sharron; got it
13:17:39 [josema]
13:18:56 [josema]
[jose mentions charter extension]
13:19:20 [josema]
take up next agendum
13:22:21 [Zakim]
13:22:57 [josema]
[john gives summary of EU PSI directive, COM, status]
13:23:42 [josema]
[on PSI directive:]
13:23:49 [josema]
13:24:06 [josema]
[john on need of transposition and deadlines]
13:25:21 [Sharron]
Sharron has joined #egov
13:25:58 [josema]
john: enabling people to create their own services have helped move the agenda in the UK
13:26:25 [Zakim]
13:27:09 [Zakim]
13:27:13 [Zakim]
13:28:44 [Zakim]
13:28:58 [josema]
jose: the examples in the COM caught my eye
13:29:22 [josema]
13:29:52 [josema]
john: I'm not planning to go to SemTech at the moment
13:30:13 [josema]
kevin: there's opportunity to speak but no travel funding
13:31:05 [josema]
[open government initiative event]
13:31:43 [josema]
-> thread start
13:32:01 [josema]
13:32:16 [josema]
[opportunity to organize a panel there]
13:32:36 [josema]
s/[opportunity to organize a panel there]/daniel: opportunity to organize a panel there
13:32:52 [josema]
... some volunteered, plan to organize the panel around the Note content
13:33:15 [josema]
[personal democracy forum]
13:34:06 [josema]
daniel: held yearly in NYC, went last year, end of June this year
13:34:28 [josema]
...hosted by TechPresident, several high profiles speakers
13:35:00 [josema]
kevin: do you see opportunity to participate there wrt Note?
13:35:23 [josema]
daniel: I can ask Micah Sifry
13:35:29 [josema]
zakim, who's noisy?
13:35:39 [Zakim]
josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: oscar (28%), John? (99%)
13:35:44 [josema]
zakim, mute oscar
13:35:44 [Zakim]
oscar should now be muted
13:36:16 [Zakim]
13:36:18 [josema]
john: we have a meeting tomorrow, Beth Noveck to give talk via videolink on OGD
13:37:05 [josema]
...easy to find, easy to use, easy to reuse ?? is the title
13:38:19 [josema]
[kevin re-reads activity plan and asks people to let group know of opportunities where we could talk about Note]
13:40:00 [josema]
take up next agendum
13:40:31 [Zakim]
13:40:32 [josema]
[kevin reminds satisfaction after challenging initial period]
13:42:30 [davemc]
go for it. Let's hear them
13:43:24 [Rachel]
one challenge - learning w3c operating procedures, took a while for group to get up to speed
13:43:50 [kevin]
just a quick note that the twibe group EGOV is official. I set it up last week
13:44:12 [Rachel]
VERY important for folks to take turns scribing
13:44:48 [Rachel]
if Jose scribes, his time is divided between talking & typing and it is hard to do both well
13:45:12 [davemc]
I didn't attend the f2f, but the minutes were quite useful in coming up to speed.
13:45:20 [Rachel]
so Step Up people!!!!!
13:46:19 [Zakim]
13:46:25 [Rachel]
ideas - appoint a scribe at end of one call, to scribe the next call.
13:46:46 [Rachel]
Idea - if you are assigned to scribe and can't make the meeting, you are responsible to find a replacement
13:46:47 [josema]
scribe: Rachel
13:47:04 [josema]
dave refers to this one:
13:47:04 [Rachel]
idea - if no one steps up to scribe, there is no meeting
13:48:22 [Rachel]
one challenge as group started was that most participants were new to w3c, new to IRC, may not have had access to IRC from work computer
13:48:24 [John]
I liked Daniel's suggestion
13:48:43 [John]
as a step
13:49:23 [davemc]
+1 Daniel's suggestion
13:49:52 [josema]
[Daniel volunteers to scribe next meeting]
13:50:48 [Rachel]
one barrier to scribing is not being familiar w/voices & names
13:50:49 [John]
Like Sharron did at our last meeting
13:51:16 [Rachel]
if you are new to the group, ask speakers to identify themselves before speaking
13:51:18 [josema]
[Sharron volunteers as backup]
13:53:43 [josema]
[Rachel volunteers to edit docs]
13:54:17 [josema]
kevin: "rapid issue releases"
13:54:17 [John]
Exactly +1
13:54:23 [josema]
13:54:27 [davemc]
13:54:45 [John]
No more 'war and peace'
13:55:08 [John]
(as in the novel)
13:55:25 [Zakim]
13:58:05 [josema]
scribe: josema
13:58:25 [josema]
[john on]
13:58:34 [Zakim]
13:58:45 [josema]
zakim, unmute oscar
13:58:45 [Zakim]
oscar was not muted, josema
13:59:20 [josema]
john: if you want to talk about something you need to be able to identify it
13:59:38 [josema]
...e.g. you need to be able to point to a paragraph
14:00:04 [John]
You can't "mash" a PDF easily
14:00:39 [josema]
daniel: putting stuff up in XML allows for this sort of stuff
14:00:45 [josema]
...using XPointer, etc.
14:01:09 [davemc]
let's discuss mashing PDF separately. Technical point of order
14:02:10 [josema]
owen: I think that john's example is interesting to show that governments do not get it
14:02:25 [John]
14:02:28 [josema]
...XML->PDF automatically is doable, opposite not true
14:02:55 [josema]
dave: PDF purpose is to show exact replica of doc, not to have pointers to this or that
14:03:25 [josema]
...XML made for that, not a PDF expert but heard from them it's even possible with PDF
14:03:58 [John]
Is bad PDF like bad HTML - you can do better but people often don't?
14:04:20 [josema]
kevin: respect both paths here, we want to provide as much data as possible
14:04:44 [davemc]
PDF to XPDF is available via free technology from Adobe
14:04:46 [josema]
daniel: we should not shy away with getting into discussion about formats with respect
14:05:12 [John]
yup, the point is the URI
14:05:30 [josema]
dave: agree and believe there are principles that could be applicable to a variety of formats
14:06:00 [josema]
oscar: PDF is wonderful technology, but I was trying to point out in the doc it's difficult to get data out
14:06:24 [josema]
...probably a technology that it's used in the wrong context in many cases, hence the issues
14:06:38 [josema]
...this is something we could also work on in the future
14:06:50 [josema]
...formats are of paramount importance
14:07:02 [josema]
daniel: sandbox stuff is wonderful
14:07:22 [josema]
...having techniques for dealing with that sort of information is always useful
14:08:55 [josema]
dave: US Courts have 350Mio docs in PDFs, we should be careful not to break the leal tracks when structuring the data
14:09:26 [josema]
rachel: 99% of people dealing with content don't have a clear idea of what XML, this needs a cultural change, capability building
14:10:29 [josema]
daniel: brilliant point
14:11:09 [josema]
rachel: people do not easily move to do something differently
14:11:38 [josema]
kevin: I believe those are things to potentially incorporate in 2nd charter
14:11:59 [josema]
...better communication to ???
14:12:12 [josema] that something we want to build onto?
14:12:35 [josema]
dave: agree???
14:12:41 [josema]
14:13:36 [John]
We just drifted - no conspiracy :)
14:16:15 [John]
my view, we worked best as one group
14:16:22 [josema]
[jose on TFs expectations different from outcome]
14:16:47 [josema]
oscar: agree, don't think they have worked very well, we might want to explore something different
14:17:16 [Sharron]
agree, re-org is good idea
14:20:02 [dmcallis]
dmcallis has joined #egov
14:20:02 [Zakim]
14:20:16 [dmcallis]
sorry, my internet connection dropped
14:20:25 [josema]
rachel: suggest to have a pre-marketing plan for next docs
14:20:30 [josema]
kevin: agree
14:21:13 [dmcallis]
dmcallis has left #egov
14:21:45 [josema]
owen: key issue is to identify and establish comms with stakeholders
14:22:51 [josema]
take up next agendum
14:22:51 [Rachel]
also identify channels where we want to distribute message - twitter, etc
14:23:26 [josema]
kevin: need to get a draft of 2nd charter in June
14:24:11 [josema]
kevin: homework assignment: should the IG focus on less topics?
14:24:30 [josema]
...think about it, go through paper, identify some
14:24:45 [josema]
...I feel each of major areas in paper are very timely and applicable
14:25:00 [josema]
...I'd like to preserve those categories if doable with resources we have
14:25:07 [John]
maybe we should do a 'divide the dollar' exercise to priopritise?
14:25:26 [josema]
owen: point is who wants to work on what?
14:25:49 [josema]
...I'd be more than willing to document goals and stakeholders in StratML
14:25:55 [josema]
oscar: I'd need some time to think about it
14:26:02 [josema]
...start thread by email
14:27:34 [josema]
daniel: I would be a little bit worried about trying to do many things at once
14:27:58 [josema] owen said we should question ourselves if we are meeting stakeholders' needs
14:28:47 [josema]
john: I think we need to prioritize, we cover a broad are now on Note
14:29:02 [josema]
...we need to pick those places where we can make most impact
14:29:15 [josema]
...strongest level of participation and expertise
14:29:24 [josema]
...go through a conversation as a group
14:29:29 [josema] identify them
14:29:37 [josema]
14:30:10 [josema]
kevin: I think we are all saying same thing, agree with both
14:30:48 [josema]
...March F2F had great participation that allowed us to be where we are today
14:31:28 [josema]
...reason why I'm also interested in marketing our efforts, led to this good position
14:31:44 [josema]
rachel: what are the end result we want for stage 2?
14:32:02 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:32:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate josema
14:32:26 [josema]
kevin: I think we need to start solving what we can solve out of those issues we identified already
14:32:34 [Zakim]
14:32:38 [John]
14:32:53 [josema]
...we have lots of questions in there, need to address them
14:32:55 [josema]
14:33:07 [John]
plural - documents
14:34:01 [josema]
john: no way we'll solve all issues identified
14:34:21 [josema]
...but if we focus well we can achieve success in small amounts
14:34:25 [josema]
...going step by step
14:34:38 [Zakim]
14:34:40 [Sharron]
must go, bye all til next time.
14:35:36 [josema]
kevin: I think we need to be open
14:35:59 [John]
so, year 2, solutions to issues, severaldocs, but agile and responsive
14:37:40 [John]
Normative sounds scary...
14:38:07 [josema]
not that much ;)
14:38:45 [josema]
ACTION: josema to send message to list about different publishing options rec/BPS/etc.
14:38:46 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-63 - Send message to list about different publishing options rec/BPS/etc. [on José Manuel Alonso - due 2009-05-20].
14:39:41 [josema]
owen: +1 to produce smaller docs and reference better existing ones
14:41:01 [josema]
kevin: can everybody commit to submit messages with ideas, description as specific as possible around this next week, get together in 2 weeks time and review that list and build consensus around it?
14:41:05 [josema]
[all agree]
14:42:01 [josema]
[kevin to touch base with Karen get back to group on marketing plan]
14:43:54 [josema]
14:44:04 [Zakim]
14:44:06 [Zakim]
14:44:07 [Zakim]
14:44:07 [Zakim]
14:44:09 [Zakim]
14:44:10 [Zakim]
14:44:10 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
14:44:11 [Zakim]
Attendees were [IPcaller], +1.202.626.aaaa, josema, Rachel, Kevin, davemc, John?, +1.202.564.aabb, +1.202.319.aacc, Brand?, Owen?, +34.63.557.aadd, oscar, +1.512.797.aaee, sharron,
14:44:13 [Zakim]
... Ken
14:44:21 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:44:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate josema
14:51:02 [John]
John has left #egov
16:13:42 [davemc]
davemc has joined #egov
16:14:24 [davemc]
davemc has joined #egov
16:15:02 [davemc]
davemc has left #egov
17:12:56 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #egov