IRC log of CSS on 2009-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:47:22 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #CSS
15:47:22 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:47:28 [glazou]
Zakim, this will be Style
15:47:28 [Zakim]
ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
15:56:06 [mollydotcom]
mollydotcom has joined #css
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mollydotcom has left #css
15:56:51 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:56:58 [Zakim]
+ +1.858.216.aaaa
15:57:20 [plinss]
zakim, +1.858.216 is me
15:57:20 [Zakim]
+plinss; got it
15:57:54 [Zakim]
16:01:46 [CesarAcebal]
CesarAcebal has joined #css
16:03:13 [Zakim]
16:03:28 [Zakim]
16:03:33 [sylvaing]
sylvaing has joined #css
16:03:42 [sylvaing]
Zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
16:03:44 [Zakim]
+sylvaing; got it
16:05:03 [Zakim]
16:05:40 [Zakim]
16:06:13 [glazou]
fantasai: you join the call?
16:07:08 [Bert]
Scribe: Bert
16:07:08 [Zakim]
16:07:14 [Bert]
ScribeNick: Bert
16:07:24 [Bert]
Topic: 2.1 issues
16:07:37 [glazou]
16:08:12 [Zakim]
16:08:24 [alexmog]
alexmog has joined #css
16:09:00 [plinss]
zakim, ??P21 is CesarAcebal
16:09:00 [Zakim]
+CesarAcebal; got it
16:09:12 [plinss]
zakim, ??P29 is fantasai
16:09:12 [Zakim]
+fantasai; got it
16:10:03 [dbaron]
16:10:10 [Bert]
David baron sent some replies.
16:10:26 [szilles]
szilles has joined #css
16:10:54 [Bert]
David: We might want to define issue 4, indeed. We would need test cases.
16:11:13 [sylvaing]
issue 4a
16:11:18 [sylvaing]
16:11:54 [Bert]
David: Specifically 4a.
16:12:32 [Bert]
David: I already pointed out it was udnefiend 10 years ago and the group decided to leave it 5 years ago. But we might change our mind.
16:13:00 [Bert]
Bert: Defined at some point, yes, but needed for 2.1?
16:13:15 [Bert]
David: Maybe not necessary, but we won't get interoperability.
16:13:53 [Arron]
Arron has joined #CSS
16:14:09 [Bert]
Daniel: So we confirm that we leave it undefined?
16:15:35 [Bert]
(Discussion about what 2004 decision meant...)
16:16:24 [Zakim]
16:16:37 [Bert]
David explains the "root" in that decision.
16:16:37 [glazou]
Zakim, who is here?
16:16:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see plinss, glazou, [Microsoft], Bert, David_Baron, CesarAcebal, SteveZ, fantasai, ??P0
16:16:39 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has sylvaing
16:16:40 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Arron, szilles, alexmog, sylvaing, CesarAcebal, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, arronei, dbaron, Lachy, krijn, jdaggett, karl, plinss, Hixie, fantasai, Bert, trackbot
16:16:48 [Bert]
David: We don't have good terminology.
16:16:54 [plinss]
zakim, ??P0 is alexmog
16:16:54 [Zakim]
+alexmog; got it
16:17:26 [Bert]
David: An element inside a top-aligned is not a root and is not considered for the alignment of that root.
16:18:11 [fantasai]
ScribeNick: fantasai
16:18:13 [Bert]
Steve: For XSL I said top was considered first and than the bottom-aligned elements would align to what was the resulting bottom after the rest was aligned.
16:18:22 [Bert]
16:18:29 [fantasai]
Steve: XSL, you align all the things that are neither top nor bottom-aligned
16:18:41 [fantasai]
Steve: Then you align against top, then bottom
16:19:02 [fantasai]
s/against/things that are top/
16:19:53 [fantasai]
fantasai: Should we just copy XSL's definition?
16:20:12 [fantasai]
David: We could use some test cases to see what browsers do
16:20:20 [fantasai]
fantasai: Didn't Anton post a test case?
16:20:42 [fantasai]
David: Some browsers might use always top, or always bottom, or the first thing, or the last thing.
16:20:51 [fantasai]
ACTION Steve come up with wider set of testcases
16:20:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-144 - Come up with wider set of testcases [on Steve Zilles - due 2009-05-20].
16:21:28 [fantasai]
Daniel: So we will return to 4a after analyzing testcases
16:21:41 [fantasai]
Daniel: What abotu 4b?
16:21:49 [fantasai]
David: We should come up with proposals for these
16:21:59 [fantasai]
Daniel: That's ok, but who will come up with the proposals?
16:22:03 [szilles]
You align all the things that are neither top or bottom aligned; then next align the top items to the top of the first result and finally align the bottom aligned items to the bottom of the first two results
16:22:06 [fantasai]
Steve: That should be either David or I
16:22:36 [fantasai]
16:22:54 [fantasai]
fantasai: I didn't have any proposals for this one, just filed the issue
16:24:17 [glazou]
16:24:19 [fantasai]
fantasai: I folded Issue 4 and Issue 10 from that message into 117, they are all related and multiple bits might be solved by one proposal
16:24:39 [fantasai]
Daniel: Ok, Steve will take care of this. Next issue
16:25:05 [fantasai]
Topic: Background Shorthand for size
16:25:11 [fantasai]
16:26:10 [fantasai]
David: I don't like using slash as a delimiter when the item before it is optional
16:26:15 [fantasai]
Daniel: Thoughts on this?
16:26:29 [fantasai]
fantasai: Even the poster decided he didn't like this proposal, so I don't think we should adopt it.
16:26:34 [glazou]
16:26:38 [fantasai]
Topic: pity thread
16:27:08 [fantasai]
Daniel: Was there anything to extract from this email?
16:27:35 [fantasai]
Bert: The first issue about the grammar, I made an error, it's my fault.
16:27:51 [fantasai]
Bert: The others, he doesn't like the way we write it... and I don't like it either, the handling of errors is not very clear
16:27:58 [fantasai]
Bert: I'm not sure we want to change that
16:28:21 [fantasai]
Bert: The last one, the fonts one, we still have an open issue. We should wait for that before we decide anything new on fonts
16:28:29 [fantasai]
Bert: I think John was going to come up with a proposal for that.
16:28:38 [fantasai]
Daniel: So we have one error that you are going to fix, or have already fixed
16:28:49 [fantasai]
Daniel: Two clarifications requested for the prose?
16:29:23 [fantasai]
Bert: Number 2 in his mail is about ignoring until the end of the block. The way it's written now says "up to and including the end of the block", which is wrong
16:29:37 [fantasai]
(we don't want to ignore the } )
16:30:13 [fantasai]
Bert: For number 3, I don't think we change anything there. I don't like the way it's written either, but I don't want to try to rewrite it. It's maybe not nicely written, but no real need to change.
16:30:14 [dbaron]
"up to (but not including) the end of the block"
16:30:44 [fantasai]
dbaron, that's not sufficient
16:30:58 [fantasai]
dbaron, reread the paragraph, you need to rearrange some text for that to work
16:31:04 [dbaron]
I can't find the paragraph
16:31:10 [fantasai]
it's in Bert's mail
16:31:17 [fantasai]
16:32:05 [fantasai]
Search for "Maybe change from"
16:32:48 [fantasai]
David: I think I prefer Bert's first proposal
16:33:05 [fantasai]
fantasai: I would be ok with the first proposal if s/up to and including the next block/block/
16:37:06 [fantasai]
fantasai: but I guess that makes it ambiguous
16:37:45 [dbaron]
it might be clearer if we say that it's the next semicolon not in a block
16:38:17 [fantasai]
several prefer Bert's original proposal
16:38:27 [fantasai]
fantasai: I can live with that if we add a comma before the second 'or'
16:38:40 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Bert's first proposal accepted with comma before second or
16:38:53 [dbaron]
mine are not ready
16:39:00 [sylvaing]
not ready either
16:39:10 [glazou]
16:39:15 [fantasai]
Nobody's ready with CSS2.1 issues
16:39:17 [fantasai]
Next issue
16:39:33 [fantasai]
Topic: REquest for new pseudos to Selectors spec
16:40:22 [fantasai]
Daniel: I think it's too late in process to add these to css3-selectors
16:40:33 [fantasai]
16:40:48 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Deferred to future specs
16:42:04 [fantasai]
Daniel: Please make sure to book your hotels and flights
16:42:17 [fantasai]
Daniel: And add topics to agenda
16:44:25 [fantasai]
Meeting closed
16:44:29 [Zakim]
16:44:31 [Zakim]
16:44:32 [Zakim]
16:44:33 [Zakim]
16:44:34 [Zakim]
16:44:35 [Zakim]
16:44:47 [Zakim]
16:45:01 [Bert]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:45:06 [Bert]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:45:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Bert
16:45:34 [Zakim]
16:46:22 [Bert]
trackbot, end meeting
16:46:22 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
16:46:22 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.858.216.aaaa, plinss, glazou, Bert, sylvaing, David_Baron, SteveZ, CesarAcebal, fantasai, alexmog
16:46:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:46:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
16:46:24 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
16:46:24 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items