15:47:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #CSS
15:47:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-CSS-irc
15:47:28 <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
15:47:28 <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
15:56:06 <mollydotcom> mollydotcom has joined #css
15:56:12 <mollydotcom> mollydotcom has left #css
15:56:51 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:56:58 <Zakim> + +1.858.216.aaaa
15:57:20 <plinss> zakim, +1.858.216 is me
15:57:20 <Zakim> +plinss; got it
15:57:54 <Zakim> +glazou
16:01:46 <CesarAcebal> CesarAcebal has joined #css
16:03:13 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:03:28 <Zakim> +Bert
16:03:33 <sylvaing> sylvaing has joined #css
16:03:42 <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
16:03:44 <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
16:05:03 <Zakim> +David_Baron
16:05:40 <Zakim> +??P21
16:06:13 <glazou> fantasai: you join the call?
16:07:08 <Bert> Scribe: Bert
16:07:08 <Zakim> +SteveZ
16:07:14 <Bert> ScribeNick: Bert
16:07:24 <Bert> Topic: 2.1 issues
16:07:37 <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-117
16:08:12 <Zakim> +??P29
16:08:24 <alexmog> alexmog has joined #css
16:09:00 <plinss> zakim, ??P21 is CesarAcebal
16:09:00 <Zakim> +CesarAcebal; got it
16:09:12 <plinss> zakim, ??P29 is fantasai
16:09:12 <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
16:10:03 <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0067.html
16:10:10 <Bert> David baron sent some replies.
16:10:26 <szilles> szilles has joined #css
16:10:54 <Bert> David: We might want to define issue 4, indeed. We would need test cases.
16:11:13 <sylvaing> issue 4a
16:11:18 <sylvaing> ?
16:11:54 <Bert> David: Specifically 4a.
16:12:32 <Bert> David: I already pointed out it was udnefiend 10 years ago and the group decided to leave it 5 years ago. But we might change our mind.
16:13:00 <Bert> Bert: Defined at some point, yes, but needed for 2.1?
16:13:15 <Bert> David: Maybe not necessary, but we won't get interoperability.
16:13:53 <Arron> Arron has joined #CSS
16:14:09 <Bert> Daniel: So we confirm that we leave it undefined?
16:15:35 <Bert> (Discussion about what 2004 decision meant...)
16:16:24 <Zakim> +??P0
16:16:37 <Bert> David explains the "root" in that decision.
16:16:37 <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
16:16:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, glazou, [Microsoft], Bert, David_Baron, CesarAcebal, SteveZ, fantasai, ??P0
16:16:39 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has sylvaing
16:16:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see Arron, szilles, alexmog, sylvaing, CesarAcebal, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, arronei, dbaron, Lachy, krijn, jdaggett, karl, plinss, Hixie, fantasai, Bert, trackbot
16:16:48 <Bert> David: We don't have good terminology.
16:16:54 <plinss> zakim, ??P0 is alexmog
16:16:54 <Zakim> +alexmog; got it
16:17:26 <Bert> David: An element inside a top-aligned is not a root and is not considered for the alignment of that root.
16:18:11 <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
16:18:13 <Bert> Steve: For XSL I said top was considered first and than the bottom-aligned elements would align to what was the resulting bottom after the rest was aligned.
16:18:22 <Bert> s/than/then/
16:18:29 <fantasai> Steve: XSL, you align all the things that are neither top nor bottom-aligned
16:18:41 <fantasai> Steve: Then you align against top, then bottom
16:19:02 <fantasai> s/against/things that are top/
16:19:53 <fantasai> fantasai: Should we just copy XSL's definition?
16:20:12 <fantasai> David: We could use some test cases to see what browsers do
16:20:20 <fantasai> fantasai: Didn't Anton post a test case?
16:20:42 <fantasai> David: Some browsers might use always top, or always bottom, or the first thing, or the last thing.
16:20:51 <fantasai> ACTION Steve come up with wider set of testcases
16:20:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-144 - Come up with wider set of testcases [on Steve Zilles - due 2009-05-20].
16:21:28 <fantasai> Daniel: So we will return to 4a after analyzing testcases
16:21:41 <fantasai> Daniel: What abotu 4b?
16:21:49 <fantasai> David: We should come up with proposals for these
16:21:59 <fantasai> Daniel: That's ok, but who will come up with the proposals?
16:22:03 <szilles> You align all the things that are neither top or bottom aligned; then next align the top items to the top of the first result and finally align the bottom aligned items to the bottom of the first two results
16:22:06 <fantasai> Steve: That should be either David or I
16:22:36 <fantasai> David: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0035.html
16:22:54 <fantasai> fantasai: I didn't have any proposals for this one, just filed the issue
16:24:17 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0084.html
16:24:19 <fantasai> fantasai: I folded Issue 4 and Issue 10 from that message into 117, they are all related and multiple bits might be solved by one proposal
16:24:39 <fantasai> Daniel: Ok, Steve will take care of this. Next issue
16:25:05 <fantasai> Topic: Background Shorthand for size
16:25:11 <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0084.html
16:26:10 <fantasai> David: I don't like using slash as a delimiter when the item before it is optional
16:26:15 <fantasai> Daniel: Thoughts on this?
16:26:29 <fantasai> fantasai: Even the poster decided he didn't like this proposal, so I don't think we should adopt it.
16:26:34 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0030.html
16:26:38 <fantasai> Topic: pity thread
16:27:08 <fantasai> Daniel: Was there anything to extract from this email?
16:27:35 <fantasai> Bert: The first issue about the grammar, I made an error, it's my fault.
16:27:51 <fantasai> Bert: The others, he doesn't like the way we write it... and I don't like it either, the handling of errors is not very clear
16:27:58 <fantasai> Bert: I'm not sure we want to change that
16:28:21 <fantasai> Bert: The last one, the fonts one, we still have an open issue. We should wait for that before we decide anything new on fonts
16:28:29 <fantasai> Bert: I think John was going to come up with a proposal for that.
16:28:38 <fantasai> Daniel: So we have one error that you are going to fix, or have already fixed
16:28:49 <fantasai> Daniel: Two clarifications requested for the prose?
16:29:23 <fantasai> Bert: Number 2 in his mail is about ignoring until the end of the block. The way it's written now says "up to and including the end of the block", which is wrong
16:29:37 <fantasai> (we don't want to ignore the } )
16:30:13 <fantasai> Bert: For number 3, I don't think we change anything there. I don't like the way it's written either, but I don't want to try to rewrite it. It's maybe not nicely written, but no real need to change.
16:30:14 <dbaron> "up to (but not including) the end of the block"
16:30:44 <fantasai> dbaron, that's not sufficient
16:30:58 <fantasai> dbaron, reread the paragraph, you need to rearrange some text for that to work
16:31:04 <dbaron> I can't find the paragraph
16:31:10 <fantasai> it's in Bert's mail
16:31:17 <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0054.html
16:32:05 <fantasai> Search for "Maybe change from"
16:32:48 <fantasai> David: I think I prefer Bert's first proposal
16:33:05 <fantasai> fantasai: I would be ok with the first proposal if s/up to and including the next block/block/
16:37:06 <fantasai> fantasai: but I guess that makes it ambiguous
16:37:45 <dbaron> it might be clearer if we say that it's the next semicolon not in a block
16:38:17 <fantasai> several prefer Bert's original proposal
16:38:27 <fantasai> fantasai: I can live with that if we add a comma before the second 'or'
16:38:40 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Bert's first proposal accepted with comma before second or
16:38:53 <dbaron> mine are not ready
16:39:00 <sylvaing> not ready either
16:39:10 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0065.html
16:39:15 <fantasai> Nobody's ready with CSS2.1 issues
16:39:17 <fantasai> Next issue
16:39:33 <fantasai> Topic: REquest for new pseudos to Selectors spec
16:40:22 <fantasai> Daniel: I think it's too late in process to add these to css3-selectors
16:40:33 <fantasai> agreemeent
16:40:48 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Deferred to future specs
16:42:04 <fantasai> Daniel: Please make sure to book your hotels and flights
16:42:17 <fantasai> Daniel: And add topics to agenda http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sophia-2009
16:44:25 <fantasai> Meeting closed
16:44:29 <Zakim> -David_Baron
16:44:31 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:44:32 <Zakim> -plinss
16:44:33 <Zakim> -glazou
16:44:34 <Zakim> -SteveZ
16:44:35 <Zakim> -CesarAcebal
16:44:47 <Zakim> -Bert
16:45:01 <Bert> rrsagent, make logs public
16:45:06 <Bert> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:45:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-CSS-minutes.html Bert
16:45:34 <Zakim> -fantasai
16:46:22 <Bert> trackbot, end meeting
16:46:22 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:46:22 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.858.216.aaaa, plinss, glazou, Bert, sylvaing, David_Baron, SteveZ, CesarAcebal, fantasai, alexmog
16:46:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:46:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-CSS-minutes.html trackbot
16:46:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:46:24 <RRSAgent> I see no action items