15:56:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #CSS
15:56:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-CSS-irc
15:57:07 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:57:15 <Zakim> + +1.858.354.aaaa
15:57:34 <plinss__> zakm, +1.858.354 is me
15:57:47 <plinss__> zakim, +1.858.354 is me
15:57:49 <Zakim> +plinss__; got it
15:57:51 <dbaron> dbaron has joined #css
15:59:10 <glazou> Zakim, code?
15:59:10 <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), glazou
15:59:30 <glazou> grrr the bridge keeps telling me passcode is not valid
15:59:59 <dbaron> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:59:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss__
16:00:22 <arronei> arronei has joined #CSS
16:00:26 <plinss__> hmmm, works for me...
16:00:30 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
16:00:36 <Zakim> +glazou
16:00:36 <glazou> ah finally
16:00:58 <emilyw> emilyw has joined #css
16:01:13 <Zakim> +Bert
16:01:28 <dbaron> Zakim, who is noisy?
16:01:39 <Zakim> dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss__ (21%)
16:01:49 <plinss__> calling back in...
16:01:56 <Zakim> -plinss__
16:02:03 <plinss__> echo now?
16:02:05 <dbaron> Zakim, who is noisy?
16:02:15 <Zakim> dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Mozilla] (94%), glazou (15%)
16:02:17 <Zakim> -glazou
16:02:21 <dbaron> glazou, no, the sound was my fault
16:02:24 <Zakim> +plinss__
16:02:31 <Zakim> +glazou
16:02:39 <glazou> I still have the noise
16:02:48 <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
16:02:51 <dbaron> does that help?
16:02:53 <glazou> YES
16:03:00 <glazou> that's you dbaron 
16:03:05 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:03:13 <dbaron> it happened even when I muted
16:03:15 <dbaron> wonderful
16:03:28 <glazou> dbaron:  so it's the line, not the microphone
16:03:45 <Zakim> +??P18
16:04:02 <Zakim> +??P19
16:04:17 <sylvaing> sylvaing has joined #css
16:04:33 <CesarAcebal> CesarAcebal has joined #css
16:04:37 <sylvaing> sylvaing has joined #css
16:06:16 <glazou> Zakim, who is noisy?
16:06:27 <Zakim> glazou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Microsoft] (5%), ??P18 (14%), ??P19 (100%)
16:07:29 <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
16:07:29 <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
16:08:11 <fantasai> zakim, mute ??P19
16:08:11 <Zakim> ??P19 should now be muted
16:08:21 <fantasai> zakim, unmute ??P19
16:08:21 <Zakim> ??P19 should no longer be muted
16:08:28 <fantasai> zakim, who is here?
16:08:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Bert, plinss__, glazou, [Microsoft], ??P18, ??P19
16:08:29 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has sylvaing
16:08:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see sylvaing, CesarAcebal, emilyw, arronei, dbaron, RRSAgent, Zakim, plinss__, glazou, MoZ, MikeSmith, karl, anne, myakura, fantasai, plinss, plinss_, Hixie, Bert,
16:08:34 <Zakim> ... trackbot, krijnh
16:08:34 <fantasai> zakim, ??P18 is fantasai
16:08:34 <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
16:08:41 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has left #css
16:09:33 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
16:09:34 <dbaron> Zakim, mute [Mozilla]
16:09:35 <Zakim> [Mozilla] should now be muted
16:09:51 <dbaron> Zakim, [Mozilla] has dbaron
16:09:51 <Zakim> +dbaron; got it
16:11:38 <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
16:11:46 <dbaron> Zakim, unmute [Mozilla]
16:11:46 <Zakim> [Mozilla] should no longer be muted
16:12:58 <szilles> szilles has joined #css
16:13:18 <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has arronei
16:13:18 <Zakim> +arronei; got it
16:13:21 <fantasai> Topic: SVG property coordination
16:13:24 <plinss__> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0001.html
16:14:06 <fantasai> glazou: I think it's extremely good to see the SVG working group discussing these things with CSSWG
16:14:13 <fantasai> glazou: But I'm not sure what actions should be done to help here
16:15:36 <fantasai> fantasai: They mention some incompatibilities with 'width' and 'height', we should look into those
16:16:02 <fantasai> fantasai: The other ones... they seem very strange for CSS properties, but I don't know what else to do with them
16:16:20 <fantasai> Bert: Maybe Chris know about them?
16:16:25 <fantasai> s/know/knows/
16:16:30 <fantasai> Bert: We could discuss it at the F2F
16:16:43 <fantasai> glazou: We could let them know that we will discuss this at the F2F in June
16:16:54 <fantasai> ACTION glazou Reply to Doug
16:16:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-143 - Reply to Doug [on Daniel Glazman - due 2009-05-13].
16:17:07 <glazou> arrrghhh noise
16:17:09 <dbaron> Zakim, who is noisy?
16:17:22 <Zakim> dbaron, listening for 11 seconds I could not identify any sounds
16:18:16 <fantasai> Topic: TPAC
16:18:33 <fantasai> ?: Do we know what's going on with TPAC?
16:19:09 <fantasai> fantasai: Doug Schepers was going to look into a joint meeting with SVG, HTML, WebApps, and us, but HTML apparently hasn't even heard of this so it doesn't seem he's looked into it much
16:19:19 <fantasai> Bert: There will be a TPAC, just smaller than usually
16:19:22 <fantasai> s/ly//
16:19:43 <fantasai> glazou: mini-TPAC doesn't seem to be moving forward, so we should make sure we are part of TPAC
16:19:55 <fantasai> peter: at least not preclude ourselves from attending
16:20:17 <fantasai> Topic: Saloni's Old Issues
16:20:19 <plinss__> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Apr/0518.html
16:21:04 <fantasai> Peter: There was a note to update the proposal for Issue 72?
16:21:12 <fantasai> Sylvain: Yeah, the issue is that nobody does what is in the spec
16:22:36 <fantasai> Sylvain: We recommend adopting the proposal
16:22:52 <fantasai> fantasai: I think we need to add that the effect of these extra cells on the table is undefined
16:23:40 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Proposal accepted as stated in issues list (Issue 72)
16:25:17 <fantasai> Sylvain: We agree with proposal in Issue 73
16:25:25 <fantasai> RESOLVED: Proposal accepted for 73
16:26:19 <Zakim> +SteveZ
16:28:00 <fantasai> Issue 117
16:28:01 <plinss__> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Mar/0004.html
16:29:03 <dbaron> I disagree with some of his editorial proposals.
16:29:21 <fantasai> I'm going through them, and I'll be posting a response to www-style about those
16:29:26 <fantasai> but this one's just about the line-height issue
16:29:47 <fantasai> I also disagree with some of his editorial edits
16:30:42 <dbaron> Can you hear me?
16:30:54 <dbaron> I guess not.
16:31:08 <dbaron> So I think this is a known undefined issue
16:31:10 <glazou> no dbaron 
16:31:12 <dbaron> which we plan to solve in css3
16:31:17 <dbaron> could somebody say this for me?
16:31:29 <dbaron> I think it's the issue of what happens when the tallest thing in the line is bottom/top aligned.
16:31:35 <dbaron> the position of the rest is undefined
16:32:29 <dbaron> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:32:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Bert, plinss__, glazou, [Microsoft], fantasai, ??P19, [Mozilla], SteveZ
16:32:31 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has arronei
16:32:31 <Zakim> [Mozilla] has dbaron
16:33:03 <fantasai> fantasai: should we call this out as explicitly undefined?
16:33:16 <sylvaing> ie8 and webkit match the first test (alignment.html)
16:33:16 <fantasai> SteveZ: What about testing it?
16:33:31 <fantasai> Peter: I don't think it's hard to test, just have to see if we have implementations
16:34:02 <fantasai> SteveZ: I think we should take a week to investigate and find out if there's any guidance we can give, even if we can't resolve it
16:34:08 <dbaron> I guess we don't say anything about it being undefined.
16:34:21 <sylvaing> opera 9.64, Firefox 3.5b4, Chrome and ie8 all match on the strut.html test
16:35:07 <dbaron> I'm not sure 4b is an issue.
16:35:14 <fantasai> SteveZ: I think comment 4c is correct
16:35:21 <dbaron> We just don't describe it as a strut, I think.
16:35:24 <dbaron> although we sort of do
16:35:44 <dbaron> I guess perhaps the problem is that we describe it as a strut rather than as the anonymous inline box.
16:35:54 <dbaron> and this would all fall through cleanly if we did the latter
16:35:58 <CesarAcebal> zakim, ??P19 is CesarAcebal
16:35:58 <Zakim> +CesarAcebal; got it
16:38:44 <fantasai> fantasai: I remember this getting discussed a long time ago, when I first joined www-style. The strut wording was accepted as a compromise because some WG members didn't want to introduce an anonymous inline box
16:38:52 <dbaron> I think it was because Tantek wanted to make only minimal changes since we were almost done with CSS 2.1. :-)
16:38:56 <fantasai> (that encloses all the inline contents of a block)
16:39:19 <fantasai> SteveZ: I don't understand how the anonymous inline box would solve this problem cmp struts
16:41:16 <fantasai> Bert: The anonymous inline box is empty, so it wouldn't have height
16:41:33 <fantasai> fantasai: It's not empty, and empty inline boxes don't get collapsed unless they're the only thing in the block
16:42:36 <fantasai> fantasai: we're talking about the /root/ anonymous inline box, which is a concept that doesn't exist in the spec except in the text-decoration section
16:44:25 <fantasai> Steve proposes deferring to next week
16:44:50 <dbaron> Zakim, who is noisy?
16:44:53 <glazou> aaaargggghhh
16:45:01 <Zakim> dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss__ (9%), glazou (5%), CesarAcebal (60%)
16:45:13 <plinss__> zakim, mute cesaracebal
16:45:13 <Zakim> CesarAcebal should now be muted
16:45:31 <fantasai> Deferred to next week
16:47:27 <fantasai> fantasai will be responding to this email and filing issues as necessary
16:47:49 <fantasai> Peter: There are a bunch of issues still open that need work
16:48:01 <fantasai> Peter: I want to make sure someone is working on each of them
16:48:53 <sylvaing> arronei volunteers for 53
16:49:02 <fantasai> :)
16:49:14 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #css
16:49:16 <sylvaing> arronei for 69 also
16:49:51 <fantasai> assigned
16:50:18 <sylvaing> I thought 111 was done as part of Bert's last spec update ?
16:50:34 <fantasai> no, that was some other issues :)
16:50:41 <fantasai> we're still waiting on jdaggett to rpopose text
16:50:43 <sylvaing> oops
16:51:02 <dbaron> I suppose I could take 26
16:51:23 <fantasai> makes sense
16:51:42 <fantasai> arronei, can you take 107?
16:52:08 <fantasai> bzbarsky is working on 109 and 110
16:52:08 <sylvaing> arronei says yes
16:52:12 <fantasai> cool
16:52:42 <Bert> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-20090423/dom.html#the-style-attribute
16:53:03 <sylvaing> sylvaing wants to learn about z-index so will take 60 (and probably regret it)
16:54:24 <fantasai> fantasai, I'll take 89
16:54:40 <sylvaing> sure
16:54:42 <sylvaing> will take 61
16:54:53 <glazou> sorry guys, I need to leave the call, my migraine is so painful I cannot stand the headset
16:55:14 <fantasai> 111 is jdaggett
16:55:19 <Zakim> -glazou
16:55:55 <sylvaing> arronei can do the testcases for 114
16:56:17 <fantasai> fantasai takes 115
16:57:26 <Zakim> -SteveZ
16:57:28 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:57:29 <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
16:57:32 <Zakim> -plinss__
16:57:42 <Zakim> -Bert
16:57:43 <Zakim> -CesarAcebal
16:57:54 <Zakim> -fantasai
16:57:56 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
16:57:57 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.858.354.aaaa, plinss__, glazou, Bert, sylvaing, fantasai, dbaron, arronei, SteveZ, CesarAcebal
16:58:13 <fantasai> arronei: thanks for taking on the testcases :)
17:01:02 <sylvaing> arronei don't do prose :)
17:03:22 <arronei> yeah not problem I'll do the test cases then we can see where we need to go from there
17:17:15 <fantasai> Issues list updated
17:18:51 <sylvaing> me:"I have issues to work on" girlfriend:"I know"
17:24:14 <fantasai> that was just asking for it :)
17:26:02 <sylvaing> true.
18:17:01 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #css
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21:59:00 <sylvaing> acid3 references an empty.css style sheet through the link element; the response, however, is text/html. The test verifies that it's ignored. I'm trying to find the normative reference(s) for this. CSS? HTML? HTTP ?
22:33:33 <Hixie> HTTP
22:47:45 <sylvaing> ok. having a hard time finding locating it. remember which area ?
22:48:18 <fantasai> The relevant sections are 14.17 and 7.2.1
22:48:47 <fantasai> The spec isn't very clear about this, though
22:49:01 <fantasai> I do remember it was a huge issue when CSS was introduced, though
22:49:12 <fantasai> Apache used to send a Content-Type header with text/plain
22:49:39 <fantasai> for .css files
22:49:41 <fantasai> by default
22:51:57 <fantasai> See also HTML 4.01 section 14.2.1
22:52:45 <sylvaing> thx !
22:53:47 <sylvaing> not super clear i.e. nowhere does it say one should match the 'style sheet language' with the response type and fail if they don't match
22:54:00 <sylvaing> s/fail/ignore