IRC log of ua on 2009-04-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:26:52 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:26:52 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:27:00 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
16:27:09 [AllanJ]
zakim, this will be wai_u
16:27:09 [Zakim]
ok, AllanJ; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 33 minutes
16:39:01 [AllanJ]
chair: Jim_Allan
16:39:22 [AllanJ]
regrets: Mark_H, Kelly_F
16:40:38 [AllanJ]
Agenda+ Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
16:40:40 [AllanJ]
Agenda+ Review comments to draft
16:52:15 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
16:52:22 [jeanne]
hey jim!
16:52:33 [jeanne]
trackbot, start meeting
16:52:35 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:52:37 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:52:37 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
16:52:38 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:52:38 [trackbot]
Date: 30 April 2009
16:53:02 [jeanne]
chair: Jim_Allan, Kelly_Ford
16:54:01 [jeanne]
zakim, code?
16:54:01 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne
16:57:24 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
16:58:15 [sharper]
zakim, code?
16:58:15 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper
16:58:57 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:59:04 [Zakim]
16:59:10 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
17:00:05 [Jan]
zakim, code?
17:00:05 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), Jan
17:00:15 [sharper]
zakim, ??P1 is sharper
17:00:15 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:00:16 [Zakim]
17:00:36 [Jan]
zakim, ??P5 is really Jan
17:00:36 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
17:01:23 [Zakim]
17:03:12 [Zakim]
17:03:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.325.aaaa
17:03:51 [AllanJ]
zakim, aaaa is really Kim_Patch
17:03:51 [Zakim]
+Kim_Patch; got it
17:04:23 [AllanJ]
regrets: +Henny
17:04:31 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:05:54 [sharper]
scribe: Harper_Simon
17:05:54 [sharper]
ScribeNick: sharper
17:06:08 [AllanJ]
zakim, agenda?
17:06:08 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
17:06:09 [Zakim]
1. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? [from AllanJ]
17:06:11 [Zakim]
2. Review comments to draft [from AllanJ]
17:06:26 [sharper]
present: Allan_James, Harper_Simon, Spellman_Jeanne, Richards_Jan, Patch_Kim
17:06:39 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 1
17:06:39 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:06:39 [sharper]
zakim, close item 1
17:06:42 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?, closed
17:06:43 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:06:44 [Zakim]
2. Review comments to draft [from AllanJ]
17:06:50 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 2
17:06:50 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Review comments to draft" taken up [from AllanJ]
17:07:36 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:07:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
17:07:55 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:07:55 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:07:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
17:08:34 [sharper]
regrets+ Ford_Kelly
17:08:51 [sharper]
regrets+ Hakkinen_Mark
17:09:00 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:09:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
17:10:13 [sharper]
17:10:30 [sharper]
meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon - 30 April 2009
17:10:46 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:10:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
17:11:21 [sharper]
JS: Thanks to Greg Lowney, for comments on Working Draft
17:11:58 [sharper]
JS: Have Invited Greg to join, he is considering it.
17:12:34 [sharper]
JS: Read over the last few days - some we can just action - others will need more discussion.
17:12:49 [sharper]
All: Most have not had time to read this in detail
17:13:06 [mhakkinen]
mhakkinen has joined #ua
17:13:32 [sharper]
JS: these are the ones we can just implement, and will be presented to the group via the survey, mostly formatting.
17:14:31 [sharper]
JS: 2nd cat - those where Greg has proposed and action.
17:14:35 [sharper]
JS: 3rd cat - need to allocate people to write a proposal.
17:14:56 [sharper]
JS: 4th cat (finally), Those which need more discussion.
17:15:24 [sharper]
JA: Are we all OK for JS to action formatting?
17:15:28 [sharper]
sh: +1
17:16:17 [sharper]
zakim, save agenda
17:16:24 [Zakim]
ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to
17:16:24 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:16:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
17:19:32 [sharper]
RESOLVED: JS to section Greg's comments into Categories, actioning formatting, moving proposals to a survey, and requesting allocation of resources for group members to build proposals around comments which have none.
17:21:55 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:21:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
17:24:38 [AllanJ]
all discuss #11. (Re 3.10.8) Why limit stealing focus top level viewports?: Why
17:24:39 [AllanJ]
ensure that the user can stop top-level viewports from stealing focus,
17:24:41 [AllanJ]
but not do the same about other events that steal focus (e.g. popup
17:24:43 [AllanJ]
menus)? (Priority: 3 Low) (Type: Clarify)
17:26:23 [AllanJ]
filling in form controls and the focus moves to next item when character limit reached
17:26:57 [AllanJ]
KP: this is a huge issue for speech users. seems the UA is thinking for itself.
17:31:27 [sharper]
KP: consistency makes interaction easier.
17:32:04 [sharper]
JR: 3.1.11 we have a guideline, we can make a work item and bring in some of these ideas.
17:32:28 [sharper]
JR: need a stronger control of focus in general.
17:35:42 [AllanJ]
this should be guideline 3.11
17:36:14 [sharper]
JS: Gregs intention was that uA should be able to prevent focus steeling, categorically.
17:38:35 [sharper]
JA: point 41
17:38:48 [AllanJ]
#41. (Re 3.6.3) Require minimum option range beyond that of the platform: The minimum range for each text characteristic is "the range offered by the conventional utility available in the operating environment", and only if there is none does a wide range become required. Thus, as user who needs to adjust these settings in order to make the system accessible is in great shape if the...
17:38:50 [AllanJ]
...platform has no conventions, but is "out of luck" if the platform offers a small range of options (e.g. a handheld device which normally uses just two font sizes, or does not provide any light-on-dark color schemes). It seems like the wider range should become required if the operating environment provides no default range OR if it offers a default range that is narrower than a...
17:38:51 [AllanJ]
...certain threshold. (Priority: 2 Medium) (Type: Expand)
17:39:01 [sharper]
JR: Greg is just saying that some operating environments have a very small range.
17:40:50 [sharper]
JA: is this the same for every platform?
17:41:10 [sharper]
JR: eg black and white screen, cannot require colour on this.
17:41:10 [AllanJ]
JR: different platforms would have different requirements to be compliant
17:41:38 [AllanJ]
...e.g. device with black and white screen, can't get color.
17:41:49 [sharper]
JR: does this mean we will set absolute thresholds for devices?
17:42:27 [sharper]
JA: concerned that we already get comments that UAAG is too burdomsom - hate using this as a decission point - but is pragmatic.
17:43:04 [sharper]
JS: look to make it as good as we can - but implementations will make this explicit - shouldn't guess on this.
17:43:24 [sharper]
JR: odd if we require UA to go beyond the platform and typical apps on the platform.
17:45:07 [AllanJ]
SH: query, different UAs have to meet UAAG, but have vastly different capabilities
17:45:16 [AllanJ] do they conform?
17:45:56 [sharper]
KP: key is consistency - whatever is required, however it is done, make it consistent.
17:49:07 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:49:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
17:53:35 [sharper]
JA: could we get Greg to come to the meeting next week so we can have more time to digest the comments and get feedback firsthand.
17:54:08 [sharper]
JS: please write a proposal for any that don't have them - this will make things much faster.
17:54:17 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Please write a proposal for any that don't have them - this will make things much faster.
17:55:03 [Zakim]
17:55:06 [Zakim]
17:55:08 [Zakim]
17:55:20 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Please send these to the list so we don't duplicate.
17:55:50 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:55:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
17:56:07 [sharper]
zakim, please part
17:56:07 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were sharper, Jan, Jeanne, Allanj, +1.617.325.aaaa, Kim_Patch
17:56:07 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
17:57:19 [sharper]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:57:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
17:57:58 [sharper]
rrsagent, please part
17:57:58 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items