19:06:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra
19:06:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/28-ws-ra-irc
19:06:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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19:06:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:06:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
19:06:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:06:20 <trackbot> Date: 28 April 2009
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19:26:03 <Bob> trackbot, start conference
19:26:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:26:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:26:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
19:26:08 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:26:08 <trackbot> Date: 28 April 2009
19:28:34 <Zakim> WS_WSRA()3:30PM has now started
19:28:41 <Zakim> +fmaciel
19:28:43 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
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19:29:00 <Zakim> +??P2
19:29:05 <Zakim> -??P2
19:29:28 <Zakim> +Doug_Davis
19:29:58 <Zakim> + +0125660aaaa
19:30:02 <Zakim> +Bob_Freund
19:30:08 <Bob> Hi
19:30:31 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ws-ra
19:30:34 <dug> Howdy
19:30:37 <Katy> Katy has joined #ws-ra
19:31:04 <asir> asir has joined #ws-ra
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19:31:37 <Bob> agenda: Distributed meeting
19:31:38 <Bob> Time: 15:30-17:00 EDT
19:31:40 <Bob> Dial-in and IRC according to usual practice[5]
19:31:41 <Bob> Topic: Opening
19:31:43 <Bob> Roll
19:31:44 <Bob> Selection of scribe, see scribe list[1]
19:31:46 <Bob> Approval of this Agenda
19:31:47 <Bob> Approval of minutes from the 2009-04-21 distributed meeting[2]
19:31:49 <Bob> Note that "*" preceding an issue is chair's suggestion of priority discussion
19:31:51 <Bob> "#" ought to be quickly closable (But the chair is often surprised)
19:31:52 <Bob> Items marked "X" in the chair's opinion need seasoning
19:31:54 <Bob> Topic: New Issues
19:31:55 <Bob> -none-
19:31:57 <Bob> Topic: Task Team Progress
19:31:58 <Bob> -Team 6413
19:32:00 <Bob> Topic: Issues with proposals
19:32:01 <Bob> Common:
19:32:03 <Bob> *-Issue-6787 All: Fix use of ... as element extensibility http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6787 -Davis
19:32:04 <Bob> Enumeration:
19:32:07 <Bob> #-Issue-6403 Enumeration - define policy http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6403 -Davis
19:32:08 <Bob> Eventing:
19:32:10 <Bob> *-Issue-6401 WS-Eventing Notifications violates WS-I BP http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6401 -Davis -Pilz
19:32:13 <Bob> *-Issue-6692 WS-Eventing: Remove Mode from the specification http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6692 -Snelling
19:32:16 <Bob> *-Issue-6696 Eventing: When to check the EPRs http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6696 -Davis
19:32:19 <Bob> *-Issue-6724 Eventing: define resource representation http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6724 -Davis
19:32:20 <Zakim> +Wu_Chou
19:32:21 <Bob> #-Issue-6788 Eventing: 'Notification' defn isn't quite right http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6788 -Davis
19:32:23 <Bob> MEX:
19:32:25 <Bob> -Issue-6500 MEX: Wrappers around GetMetadata http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6500 -Bullen (6398)
19:32:27 <Bob> Transfer:
19:32:30 <Bob> *-Issue-6712 Transfer: Create is ambiguous http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6712 -Davis
19:32:32 <Bob> Resource-Transfer:
19:32:33 <Bob> -Issue-6699 RT: ability to assign metadata during create http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6699 -Davis
19:32:36 <Bob> ===
19:32:38 <Bob> Topic: Issues for general discussion
19:32:40 <Bob> All:
19:32:42 <Bob> #*-Issue-6694 All: Which specifications have implicit operations? http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6694 -Davis
19:32:46 <Bob> Resource-Transfer:
19:32:47 <Bob> -Issue-6422 RT - Introduces An Ad Hoc Boxcarring Mechanism http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6422 -Bullen
19:32:50 <Bob> -Issue-6575 RT - Fragment Put should allow computed values http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6575 -Bullen
19:32:53 <Bob> -Issue-6634 RT - Document algorithm for modify http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6634 -Bullen
19:32:55 <Bob> -Issue-6635 RT - Outer resource with individually addressable inner resources http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6635 -Bullen
19:32:58 <Bob> -Issue-6636 RT - Add example of resource after the create http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6636 -Bullen
19:33:01 <Bob> Eventing:
19:33:04 <Bob> -Issue-6435 WS-Eventing needs state table to fully describe protocol http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6435 -Pilz
19:33:07 <Bob> -Issue-6642 WS-Eventing does not describe how to advertise policy for Subscription Managerhttp://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6642 -Pilz
19:33:09 <Bob> MEX:
19:33:11 <Bob> -Issue-6406 WS-MEX - define policy http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6406 -Davis
19:33:13 <Bob> -Issue-6463 MEX-Attaching Policy to WS-Mex GetMetadata http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6463 -Warr
19:33:16 <Bob> -Issue-6674 MEX should reference latest W3C REC versions of WS-Policy and WS-PolilcyAttachment http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6674 -Pilz
19:33:18 <Bob> -Issue-6679 MEX's stance towards metadata scope and semantics needs clarification http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6679 -Pilz
19:33:21 <Bob> -Issue-6680 MEX Section 3.2 has inconsistent properties http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6680 -Pilz
19:33:25 <Bob> Enumeration:
19:33:27 <Bob> -Issue-6436 WS-Enumeration needs state table to fully describe protocol http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6436 -Pilz
19:33:30 <Bob> AOB
19:33:31 <Bob> Adjourn
19:33:33 <Bob> ===
19:33:35 <Bob> N.B.
19:33:37 <Bob> Issues needing owners
19:33:40 <Bob> -Issue-6701 Enumeration: Create Infoset description http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6701
19:33:41 <Bob> -Issue-6702 MEX: Create Infoset description http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6702
19:33:43 <Bob> -Issue-6703 RT: Create Infoset description http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6703
19:33:45 <Bob> -Issue-6704 Transfer: Create Infoset description http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6704
19:33:47 <Bob> Needing Proposals prior to Discussion:
19:33:49 <Bob> Transfer:
19:33:51 <Bob> -Issue-6413 Transfer- Move Fragment support from RT to Transfer  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6413 -Davis -Warr (Task Team Warr Bullen)
19:33:54 <Bob> -Issue-6533 Transfer: Safeness of operations http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6533 -Lafon (Action-45)
19:33:57 <Bob> -Issue-6551 RT - Message processing time exceeded http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6551 -Bullen (Action-13)
19:34:00 <Bob> -Issue-6632 RT - Define fault for cases where the GetResult is too large http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6632 -Bullen (Action-32)
19:34:03 <Bob> -Issue-6633 RT - Namespaces in updates http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6633 -Bullen (Action-32)
19:34:05 <Bob> -Issue-6691 WS-T/RT - Reconcile faults http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6691 -Warr (Action-51)
19:34:08 <Bob> -Issue-6594 Transfer: Add extensibility points for WS-Transfer wrappers http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6594 -Davis -Bullen (Action-57)
19:34:10 <Bob> -Issue-6672 Transfer: Non deterministic behavior of PutResponse http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6672 -Davis -Bullen (Action-57)
19:34:13 <Bob> -Issue-6673 Transfer: Non deterministic behavior of Create http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6673 -Davis -Bullen (Action-57)
19:34:16 <Bob> Resource-Transfer:
19:34:18 <Zakim> +Yves
19:34:18 <Bob> -Issue-6407 WS-RT - define policy http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6407 -Davis (Action-25)
19:34:20 <Bob> -Issue-6549 RT - Create focused on resource fragments http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6549 -Bullen
19:34:23 <Bob> -Issue-6550 RT - Support for XSLT and XQuery in PUT http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6550 -Bullen (Action-11)
19:34:27 <Bob> -Issue-6552 RT - Lifecycle metadata for Create http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6552 -Bullen (Action-12)
19:34:29 <Bob> -Issue-6576 RT - No Fault Defined for Mi6432smatch between ResourceTransfer header and message body http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6576 -Bullen (Action-28)
19:34:32 <Bob> -Issue-6578 RT - SideEffects applies to other faults http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6578 -Bullen (Action-29)
19:34:35 <Bob> -Issue-6579 RT - Bad fragment values with Create http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6579 -Bullen (Action-30)
19:34:36 <li> li has joined #ws-ra
19:34:39 <Bob> -Issue-6603 RT - Inconsistencies in CreateResponse message http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6603 -Bullen (Action-20)
19:34:41 <Bob> Eventing:
19:34:43 <Bob> -Issue-6402 WS-Eventing - define policy http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6402 -Davis (Action-24)
19:34:46 <Bob> -Issue-6421 Eventing-Extension point in reply message of Unsubscribe http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6421 -Bullen (Action-27)
19:34:49 <Bob> -Issue-6429 Eventing: Standardize Wrapped Event Sink http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6429 -Li (Action-42)
19:34:51 <Bob> -Issue-6700 Eventing: Complete Infoset description http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6700 -Wu
19:34:53 <Bob> MEX:
19:34:56 <Bob> -Issue-6411 WS-MEX: no way to create metadata http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6411 -Davis (Action-26)
19:34:58 <Bob> ===
19:35:00 <Bob> Blocked with dependancy on (issue):
19:35:02 <Bob> Eventing:
19:35:04 <Bob> X-Issue-6430 Eventing-Remove Attribute wse:EventSource http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6430 -Li (6401)
19:35:07 <Bob> X-Issue-6661 WS-Eventing Appendix I is incomplete and incorrect http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6661 -Pilz (6401)
19:35:10 <Bob> X-Issue-6432 WS-Eventing Push delivery mode does not work when the subscriber is not addressablehttp://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6432 -Pilz -Davis (6692)
19:35:13 <Bob> X-Issue-6803 RT: Is this functionality required? http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6803 -Bullen (6413)
19:35:16 <Bob> ===
19:35:19 <Bob> [1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/chair-tools/scribelist.html
19:35:20 <Bob> [2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/9/04/2009-04-21.html
19:35:22 <Bob> [3] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/wiki/Main_Page
19:35:24 <Bob> [4] - this space for rent -
19:35:27 <Bob> [5] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/admin.html
19:35:30 <Bob> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Apr/0169.html
19:35:50 <Zakim> + +1.908.253.aabb
19:36:14 <Bob> scribe: Ashok
19:36:19 <Vikas> Vikas has joined #ws-ra
19:36:36 <Bob> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Apr/0169.html
19:36:58 <dug> LOL
19:37:21 <Zakim> +Vikas
19:37:27 <Ashok> Topic:  Convening
19:37:57 <asir>    (Carriage Return - Line Feed) pair, and these messages SHALL NOT
19:37:57 <asir>    exceed 512 characters in length
19:38:09 <Zakim> +??P11
19:38:22 <Zakim> + +1.408.642.aacc
19:38:33 <Ashok> Bob: Add 2 new issues to agenda
19:38:42 <gpilz> gpilz has joined #ws-ra
19:38:53 <gpilz> hai, im am here
19:39:56 <Zakim> +Mark_Little
19:40:08 <gpilz> it's actually a MSFT keyboard
19:40:13 <Ashok> Topic:  Approval of minutes of last mtg
19:40:13 <DaveS> DaveS has joined #ws-ra
19:40:39 <Bob> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/9/04/2009-04-21.html
19:41:16 <Ashok> Minutes from April 21 approved w/o objection
19:41:47 <Ashok> Can we open the 2 new issues and assign to the opener, Doug!
19:41:59 <Ashok> Topic:  Issue 6413
19:42:27 <Ashok> Katy:  We have a compromise proposal.    We shd be ready next week.
19:42:39 <Geoff> q+
19:42:57 <Ashok> Yves:  Where are the emails re. 6413
19:43:13 <Ashok> Katy:  We had a telcon
19:43:17 <dug> Yves - it was private email
19:43:56 <Bob> ack yves
19:44:01 <Bob> ack geoff
19:44:08 <Ashok> Geoff:  I want to ask abt mssion of the TF
19:44:21 <dug> q+
19:45:02 <Ashok> .... is it the mission to create a new spec called, say fragments and how this works with WS-T
19:45:58 <dug> q-
19:46:13 <Ashok> Bob:  I expect TF to come back with proposal acceptable to TF and hopefully by the rest of the WG
19:46:34 <Katy> 1+
19:46:51 <dug> q+
19:46:53 <Ashok> Geoff:  Shall we solve the technical issues?
19:47:31 <Zakim> +J.Mischkinsky
19:47:40 <Bob> ack dug
19:48:36 <Ashok> Dug:  We have had lots to discussion ... the TF has to come up with a compromise that is acceptable to IBMand MS and hopefully by the rest of the WG
19:48:50 <Geoff> q+
19:49:05 <Bob> ack dug'
19:49:10 <Bob> ack geoff
19:50:15 <Ashok> Geoff:  We agreed thatere wd be a spec called 'transfer'  ... shouldn't that be the starting point
19:50:34 <Ashok> s/thatere/that there/
19:50:52 <Yves> I remember saying last time that the ideal place for fragments was... in addressing, close to EPR definition, so having a standalone spec is the best match
19:51:04 <Katy> q+
19:51:14 <Bob> ack katy
19:51:30 <gpilz> q+
19:51:33 <asir> q+
19:51:44 <Ashok> Katy:  I think the key is to come up with an acceptable proposal
19:52:47 <gpilz> q-
19:52:53 <asir> q-
19:52:53 <Ashok> Bob:  Let's not talk abt this further until the TF comes back  to us
19:53:00 <dug> zakim, who is talking?
19:53:13 <Zakim> dug, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Freund (75%), +1.408.642.aacc (21%)
19:53:31 <Ashok> Topic: New Issue 6787
19:53:51 <Ashok> Dug:  Strictly editorial
19:54:27 <Ashok> ... they use ... for extensibility.  Shd use xs:any for extensibility
19:54:41 <dug> and they rejoiced
19:55:01 <Ashok> Accept Dug's proposal in bugzill to resolve 6787
19:55:12 <Ashok> Topic:  Issue 6403
19:55:27 <Ashok> s/bugzill/bugzilla/
19:55:30 <Geoff> q+
19:55:44 <Ashok> No changes since last week.
19:55:47 <Bob> ack geoff
19:56:17 <Ashok> Geoff:  We have some comments.  We shd create some concrete text.
19:56:24 <Ashok> Bob:  ETA?
19:56:44 <Ashok> Geoff:  Try for next week
19:57:12 <Ashok> ACTION:  Geoff to create a conterproposal for 6403 by next week
19:57:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-60 - Create a conterproposal for 6403 by next week [on Geoff Bullen - due 2009-05-05].
19:57:50 <Ashok> Topic: Issue 6401
19:57:58 <Geoff> q+
19:58:04 <dug> Latest proposal:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Mar/0127.html
19:59:13 <Bob> ack geoff
19:59:21 <Ashok> Gil:  Wanted to get everyone on board
19:59:53 <Ashok> Geoff:  WS-PAEPER not necessary
20:00:28 <li> q+
20:01:10 <Zakim> -??P11
20:01:22 <Ashok> Ashok:  Why is there a <Policy> element child of EPR
20:01:22 <Bob> acl li
20:01:35 <Vikas> Vikas has joined #ws-ra
20:01:58 <Ashok> Li:  Generally in agreement with Gil's approach
20:02:16 <Zakim> +??P11
20:02:20 <gpilz> q+
20:02:21 <asir> I did not understand Ashok's question
20:02:32 <Bob> ack li
20:03:32 <Ashok> Asir, see section 7 of MEX... look at the EPR example ... why are there <Policy> and <Metedata> children for the EPR.  No need for <Policy>
20:03:57 <Wu> q+
20:04:14 <asir> q+
20:04:48 <Ashok> li:  We have frienfly amendements on Gil's propsal and wd like to separate out Policy Negotiation
20:05:03 <asir> q+ to answer Ashok's question
20:05:19 <Ashok> s/frienfly/friendly/
20:05:31 <Bob> ack gpi
20:05:47 <Wu> q-
20:05:49 <asir> awesome Gil!
20:06:21 <Ashok> Gil:  Li, Wu and I shd discuss and prepare actual text
20:06:53 <Geoff> q+
20:07:36 <Ashok> ACTION: Li and Gil to prepare text by next week
20:07:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - And Gil to prepare text by next week [on Li Li - due 2009-05-05].
20:08:46 <Bob> ack geoff
20:08:50 <Bob> ack asir
20:08:50 <Zakim> asir, you wanted to answer Ashok's question
20:09:23 <Ashok> Geoff: If we remove <policy< element then we do not need WS-PAEPER?
20:09:27 <Wu> q+
20:09:29 <Ashok> Ashok:  Correct
20:09:54 <asir> Ashok - it appears that is already taken down in the editors' draft, see http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/edcopies/wsmex.html#Metadata-in-Endpoint-References
20:10:10 <Bob> ack wu
20:10:17 <dug> phew - I was looking and I couldn't find it
20:10:33 <asir> Good job cleaning up Doug!
20:11:07 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ws-ra
20:11:43 <Ashok> Topic:  Note from Noah Mendelsohn
20:12:03 <Ashok> TAG will not raise issues on our work
20:12:09 <asir> q+
20:12:29 <Bob> ack asir
20:12:49 <Ashok> Asir thanks Bob for getting this resolved early
20:13:28 <Ashok> Topic:  Issue 6692
20:13:35 <Geoff> q+
20:13:42 <Wu> q+
20:13:51 <Ashok> Remove 'mode' from Eventing
20:14:32 <Bob> ack geof
20:14:35 <Zakim> +JeffM
20:14:38 <Zakim> -J.Mischkinsky
20:15:22 <Ashok> Wu:  I would like to move on to other issues.  This has been extensively discussed.  Semantics of WS-Eventing may change based on other issues
20:15:38 <Ashok> Bob:  Which issues block this?
20:15:46 <Ashok> Wu:  6432
20:15:47 <Zakim> -Yves
20:16:02 <Ashok> Bob:  I think 6432 is blocked by this one
20:16:38 <Ashok> Wu:  I think 6432 goes first
20:16:53 <gpilz> q+
20:17:39 <Zakim> -Mark_Little
20:18:31 <Bob> ack gpil
20:18:58 <Ashok> Gil: I don't think 6432 blocks this.  It's orthogonal.
20:20:41 <Ashok> Bob:  When we spoke abt 6432 last week the issue of 'mode' kep coming up.  Let's pick one to solve first.
20:20:59 <Ashok> s/kep/kept/
20:21:13 <Ashok> Wu:  We are thinking of proposal for 6432
20:22:06 <gpilz> q+
20:22:19 <dug> brb dog is throwing up.... 
20:22:40 <Ashok> ACTION:  Wu to provide new words for 6432 by May 8, 2009
20:22:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Provide new words for 6432 by May 8, 2009 [on wu chou - due 2009-05-05].
20:22:46 <DaveS> q+
20:22:50 <gpilz> q-
20:23:04 <Bob> ack dave
20:23:08 <Bob> ack wu
20:23:26 <gpilz> q+
20:23:27 <Ashok> DaveS:  Why don't we discuss the other one first 
20:23:54 <asir> Don't understand where we are?
20:24:04 <Ashok> ... move on 6693
20:24:08 <Geoff> q+
20:24:27 <Wu> q+
20:24:29 <gpilz> q-
20:24:38 <Ashok> s/6693/6692/
20:25:17 <gpilz> q+
20:26:00 <dug> back
20:27:20 <Ashok> DaveS:  Argues why we don't need mode
20:27:28 <gpilz> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/wiki/Redundant_Extension_Points
20:27:44 <asir> I thought Bob asked Dave to describe where we are re 6692 discussion
20:28:20 <Bob> ack geo
20:28:38 <dug> Mode is broken and no one has refuted my points in:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Apr/0016.html
20:28:38 <Ashok> Geoff:  Mode acts as selection mechanism
20:28:55 <DaveS> q+
20:29:23 <dug> q+
20:29:33 <Ashok> ... but we need to move forward.  I've been thinking about a proposal
20:30:16 <TRutt> q+
20:30:17 <asir> a mechanism for a subscriber to specify a delivery mode to an event source!
20:30:37 <Ashok> ... MS is absolutly for a selection concept.   Client needs to be able to select the mode.
20:30:38 <Bob> ack wu
20:31:57 <Ashok> Wu:  I propose we shd keep it in.  You don't have to use it.
20:32:55 <Ashok> Bob:  How do we move forward ... need some compromise
20:33:01 <Geoff> q+
20:33:30 <asir> of which specification?
20:33:51 <Bob> ack gpil
20:35:07 <Ashok> Gil:  I posed a challenge ... I will show an alternative method for extension that will be better that 'mode'.  No one took me up on that.
20:35:24 <Wu> q+
20:35:52 <Ashok> ... We are within SOAP.  No on will implement enevting outside of SOAP
20:36:01 <Ashok> s/on/one/
20:36:25 <Ashok> ... real issue is about code preservation
20:38:01 <Ashok> Gil:  Mode is like a rounding error ... many other issues involved in implemening latest WS-Eventing spec
20:38:49 <gpilz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Apr/0116.html
20:39:18 <Bob> ack dave
20:40:42 <Ashok> DaveS:  I want Eventing to stay clean ... if it defines a single mode then that the default mode.  
20:41:04 <Ashok> ... delete mode and allow attribute extensibility.
20:41:20 <gpilz> q+
20:41:35 <Ashok> Wu:  Need specific words... do we maintain fault msg?
20:42:19 <Bob> ack dug
20:42:23 <Ashok> DaveS:  I don't want to wait.  I would like a vote on a direction tonight.
20:43:00 <dug> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Apr/0016.html
20:44:15 <Ashok> Dug:  Please respond to this note.  I argued that 'mode' has problems.  We have 2 mechanisms for extensibility.  It's fundamentally flawed
20:44:32 <Ashok> Wu:  I responded
20:44:57 <gpilz> "lots of ways" leads to WS-Man 1.0 Chapter 7.
20:45:04 <gpilz> read it and be afraid
20:45:20 <asir> q+
20:45:58 <TRutt> As Dave S stated, the ws eventing spec only defies a simple push delivery semantic. I see some of the proposal  allowing use of a consistent use of an xs:any extension element (e.g, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Apr/0055.html ) to subscribe element def  to express the same capability of the mode attribute, I do not understand how this would not enable  groups such as ws man to use it to give the same capability that their mod
20:45:58 <TRutt> As an alternaive,  ws-eventing users might also decide to use other ws-* mechanisms to give these "mode" like capabilities (e.g, ws man could decide to use ws-rm as an alternative to provide the equivalent capabilities of their "push with ack" mode.
20:46:23 <Bob> ack tru
20:46:27 <Katy> q+
20:47:02 <Ashok> Trutt:  We can extend in many ways.  Supports Dave
20:47:04 <Bob> ack geo
20:47:38 <dug> harry?
20:47:52 <Katy> q-
20:47:59 <Ashok> Geoff:  Don't see this as an extension mechanism.  See it as a selection mechanism
20:48:36 <Wu> link to my response: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Apr/0033.html
20:48:42 <Ashok> ... we have nothing to vote on.  We have many proposals on the table
20:49:25 <asir> ~ 7-9 proposals out there, I think
20:50:57 <gpilz> q-
20:52:36 <Wu> q-
20:53:10 <Ashok> ACTION:  Geoff to list all the different proposals for 6692 and their pros and cons.    In next 2 days.  Seperate proposals and argument.  
20:53:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - List all the different proposals for 6692 and their pros and cons.    In next 2 days.  Seperate proposals and argument.   [on Geoff Bullen - due 2009-05-05].
20:53:30 <Ashok> Topic: issue 6788
20:53:59 <gpilz> geoff, you're going to do this on the Wiki, correct?
20:54:14 <Ashok> Dug:  Discusses wording changes
20:54:43 <Ashok> No objection to proposal.
20:55:04 <Geoff> Gil - Iwas planning to just send an email with the proposals
20:55:07 <Ashok> RESOLUTION:  Issue 6788 resolved with proposal in Bugzilla
20:55:31 <gpilz> Bob directed us to use the wiki
20:55:35 <Ashok> Topic:  Issue 6694
20:55:40 <gpilz> and I think that idea has some merits
20:55:48 <gpilz> in that we can co-edit the proposals
20:56:54 <gpilz> q+
20:57:23 <Bob> ack asir
20:57:27 <Bob> ack gpi
20:57:33 <asir> q+
20:58:34 <Geoff> q+
20:59:09 <Bob> ack geo
20:59:31 <Katy> q+
20:59:48 <asir> q-
21:00:01 <Bob> ack kat
21:00:21 <gpilz> Geoff: here's the Wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/wiki/index.php?title=Proposals_for_6692&action=edit
21:00:24 <Ashok> Katy:  We have another issue for implicit operations
21:00:49 <Katy> (for policy attached to implict operations)
21:01:12 <Ashok> Bob:  Please make comments on the scribing.
21:01:20 <Zakim> -Vikas
21:01:22 <Zakim> -JeffM
21:01:22 <Zakim> - +0125660aaaa
21:01:24 <Zakim> -fmaciel
21:01:24 <Zakim> -Wu_Chou
21:01:26 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:01:32 <Zakim> - +1.908.253.aabb
21:01:34 <Zakim> -Doug_Davis
21:01:36 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
21:01:39 <Zakim> -Tom_Rutt
21:01:40 <Zakim> -Bob_Freund
21:01:54 <Zakim> -??P11
21:02:15 <Bob> rrsagent,make logs public
21:02:27 <Bob> rrsagent, generate minutes
21:02:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/28-ws-ra-minutes.html Bob
21:03:35 <gpilz> gpilz has left #ws-ra
21:06:33 <dug> dug has left #ws-ra
21:06:55 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, +1.408.642.aacc, in WS_WSRA()3:30PM
21:06:57 <Zakim> WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended
21:07:00 <Zakim> Attendees were fmaciel, [Microsoft], Doug_Davis, +0125660aaaa, Bob_Freund, Ashok_Malhotra, Tom_Rutt, Wu_Chou, Yves, +1.908.253.aabb, Vikas, +1.408.642.aacc, Mark_Little,
21:07:02 <Zakim> ... J.Mischkinsky, JeffM
22:00:15 <TRutt> TRutt has left #ws-ra