13:25:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
13:25:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/28-bpwg-irc
13:25:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:25:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
13:25:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be BPWG
13:25:44 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:25:45 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:25:45 <trackbot> Date: 28 April 2009
13:25:49 <francois> Regrets: jo, DKA, rob, kai, abel, nacho, SangwhanMoon, Bruce, Bryan
13:26:27 <francois> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Apr/0038.html
13:28:39 <tomhume> tomhume has joined #bpwg
13:29:22 <cgi-irc> cgi-irc has joined #bpwg
13:29:25 <tomhume> zakim, what is the code?
13:29:25 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), tomhume
13:30:31 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has now started
13:30:38 <Zakim> + +2
13:30:44 <tomhume> zakim, + +2 is me
13:30:44 <Zakim> I don't understand '+ +2 is me', tomhume
13:30:48 <tomhume> zakim, +2 is me
13:30:48 <Zakim> +tomhume; got it
13:30:57 <EdC> EdC has joined #bpwg
13:31:27 <Zakim> +Francois
13:31:52 <Zakim> + +0207881aabb
13:31:57 <Adam> zakim, aabb is me
13:31:57 <Zakim> +Adam; got it
13:32:30 <Zakim> +EdC
13:35:38 <miguel> miguel has joined #bpwg
13:35:50 <Zakim> +??P12
13:35:54 <yeliz> zakim, ??P12 is yeliz
13:35:54 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
13:36:07 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
13:36:07 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
13:36:23 <Zakim> +miguel
13:37:53 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
13:37:53 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
13:38:13 <francois> Scribe: yeliz
13:38:19 <francois> Topic: mobileOK Checker
13:38:52 <jeffs> jeffs has joined #bpwg
13:39:05 <yeliz> francois: The reason this is topic is agenda, I made some changes in the library, most of the bugs are fixed
13:39:11 <Zakim> + +03491121aacc
13:39:19 <yeliz> francois: thanks to Miguel and Abel
13:39:38 <yeliz> Francois: there are a few minor enhancements in the pipeline
13:40:00 <yeliz> Francois: there are some possible enhancements that could be done in the way resources are described
13:40:23 <Zakim> + +1.585.278.aadd
13:40:25 <yeliz> Francois: Need to discuss on the mobileOK mailing list before we go ahead with those changes
13:40:37 <achuter> zakim, +03491 is me
13:40:37 <Zakim> +achuter; got it
13:40:41 <achuter> zakim, mute me
13:40:41 <Zakim> achuter should now be muted
13:40:46 <jeffs> zakim, aadd is jeffs
13:40:46 <Zakim> +jeffs; got it
13:40:49 <yeliz> Francois: I just wanted to give an update on the status of mobileOK
13:40:55 <francois> zakim, mute yeliz
13:40:55 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
13:41:13 <francois> Topic: Mobile Web Application Best Practices
13:41:18 <yeliz> Topic: Web Applications Best Practices Document
13:41:27 <yeliz> Francois: Adam updated the document
13:41:31 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20091704 new MWABP draft
13:41:32 <yeliz> Adam: there is a new draft
13:41:51 <yeliz> Adam: Thanks to Eduarda, it looks powerful, I will work on your comments, and then raise issues if
13:41:57 <yeliz> Adam: something is not clear
13:42:03 <francois> s/Eduarda/Eduardo
13:42:18 <jeffs> should be able to finish up empirical tests of canvas & SVG this week
13:42:24 <yeliz> Adam: There is one outsanding action: revisit...
13:42:46 <yeliz> Adam: We can either go ahead and discuss them
13:43:33 <yeliz> Adam: What we recommended as best practice is not recommended by security people
13:43:43 <yeliz> Adam: looking forward to comments and feedback
13:44:19 <yeliz> Francois: I think Eduardo had quite a lot of comments about this, any comment Eduardo?
13:44:24 <yeliz> Eduardo: Not quite
13:44:40 <yeliz> Eduardo: would be good to have more details about the argument
13:45:19 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Feb/0070.html resolutions on logins
13:45:22 <yeliz> Adam: made recommendations on how formatted passwords, etc.. I don't think it is a good idea to have them presented differently on mobile Web
13:45:34 <yeliz> Adam: we can either be silent on this or discuss it further
13:46:44 <yeliz> Eduardo: Are you saying that we ignore the resolution and do something else?
13:47:10 <yeliz> Adam: we can remain silent on the topic
13:47:47 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #bpwg
13:47:54 <yeliz> Francois: I think I like your suggestion, it is an important topic
13:48:09 <yeliz> Adam: it's important to put BP in the user experience section
13:48:48 <yeliz> Adam: we made some other changes to BP since then
13:49:05 <yeliz> Adam: and now it talks about something slightly different
13:49:07 <Zakim> +SeanP
13:49:14 <yeliz> Eduardo: this is OK with me
13:49:45 <yeliz> Adam: I haven't actually looked at the existing resolutions, but they don't match with the exitsing versions
13:49:56 <yeliz> Adam: as they talk about some BPs that don't exist anymore
13:50:21 <francois> ACTION: adam to draft a BP on login forms adapting previous resolutions on the topic for discussion
13:50:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-957 - Draft a BP on login forms adapting previous resolutions on the topic for discussion [on Adam Connors - due 2009-05-05].
13:50:22 <yeliz> Adam: Waiting for feedback on the document, haven't addressed Eduardo's comments yet
13:50:28 <jsmanrique> jsmanrique has joined #bpwg
13:50:42 <yeliz> Eduardo: there are a couple of points that need clarification
13:51:04 <yeliz> Eduardo: my comments don't invalidate BPs but mainly clarifications are required
13:51:13 <yeliz> Adam: I will address them later
13:51:23 <yeliz> Francois: I also have some minor comments and I will post them later
13:51:49 <yeliz> Francois: I wonder if it would be good to publish a new draft, a working group draft
13:52:01 <yeliz> Francois: the new document is way different from the one published in the past
13:52:12 <yeliz> Francois: so it would be good to publish a new WG draft
13:52:21 <yeliz> Adam: I think that would be good, yes from me
13:52:42 <yeliz> Adam: looking forward to more comments from the community
13:52:57 <yeliz> Francois: anybody against to publish a new WG draft?
13:53:32 <yeliz> Eduardo: there are two BPs missing, would that be a problem in publising a draft?
13:53:50 <yeliz> Francois: no, that won't be a problem, we will just put editorial note
13:54:32 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
13:54:32 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
13:54:47 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
13:54:47 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
13:55:09 <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: add a placeholder for login BP in the current draft and publish the a new Working Draft of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices document based on the 17th April 2009 version.
13:55:29 <Adam> +1
13:55:31 <EdC> +1
13:55:33 <achuter> +1
13:55:34 <francois> +1
13:55:35 <miguel> +1
13:55:35 <yeliz> +1
13:55:43 <SeanP> +1
13:55:47 <yeliz> Adam: I can publish it tomorrow
13:56:11 <yeliz> Francois: I can do the necessary changes to move it to a WG draft 
13:56:53 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
13:56:53 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
13:57:24 <yeliz> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: add a placeholder for login BP in the current draft and publish the a new Working Draft of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices document based on the 17th April 2009 version.
13:57:31 <yeliz> RESOLUTION: add a placeholder for login BP in the current draft and publish the a new Working Draft of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices document based on the 17th April 2009 version.
13:57:40 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
13:57:40 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
13:58:05 <yeliz> Francois: Jeff do you have any update on Canvas?
13:58:31 <yeliz> Jeff: I haven't had any chance to complete it
13:58:41 <francois> Topic: Mobile/Accessibility document
13:58:52 <achuter> zakim, unmute me
13:58:52 <Zakim> achuter should no longer be muted
13:59:03 <yeliz> Francois: Alan posted a new email today
13:59:08 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Apr/0041.html Alan's latest email on the topic
13:59:15 <Zakim> +josema
13:59:19 <yeliz> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20090428/#approaches
13:59:27 <yeliz> Francois:This is the latest version
13:59:45 <yeliz> Francois: is the goal to publish a new WG draft and then a WG note?
14:00:04 <yeliz> Alan: yes, that's the idea, idea is to get more feedback
14:00:08 <achuter> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20090428/#approaches
14:00:23 <yeliz> Francois: I suppose it is the EO position
14:00:31 <yeliz> Francois: not many changes, right?
14:01:01 <yeliz> Alan: The main change been that WCAG is required by all sites but not BP
14:01:11 <yeliz> Alan: but then we updated that
14:01:22 <yeliz> Francois: is there something that needs to be reviewed?
14:01:37 <yeliz> Alan: only that parag. that compares WCAG and MWBP?
14:02:01 <yeliz> Francois: I read it several times, and it looks OK to me
14:02:20 <yeliz> Alan: take a resolution to be published as a Working draft
14:02:45 <yeliz> Alan: I have implemented the changes EO asked for
14:02:55 <yeliz> Alan: I think they need to vote as well
14:03:13 <yeliz> EO: Education and Outreach WG
14:03:35 <yeliz> Francois: If they say on Friday that they are OK with this version, we will go ahead and publish
14:04:30 <yeliz> Francois: If Education and Outreach WG say on Friday that they are OK with this version, we will go ahead and publish
14:04:36 <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: pending EOWG approval, publish the latest version of "Relationship between Mobile Web Best Practices (MWBP) and Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG)" as a last public working draft, with a view to issuing a WG Note shortly afterwards.
14:04:56 <EdC> +1
14:05:02 <achuter> +1
14:05:08 <Adam> +1
14:05:09 <jeffs> +1
14:05:10 <yeliz> +1
14:05:10 <francois> +1
14:05:11 <miguel> +1
14:05:11 <SeanP> +1
14:05:25 <yeliz> RESOLUTION: pending EOWG approval, publish the latest version of "Relationship between Mobile Web Best Practices (MWBP) and Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG)" as a last public working draft, with a view to issuing a WG Note shortly afterwards.
14:05:58 <yeliz> Topic: Content Transformation
14:06:31 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Apr/0023.html fd's email on X-Device-* headers registration
14:07:48 <EdC> q
14:08:08 <yeliz> Francois: this requires Jo's approval
14:08:41 <yeliz> Eduardo: regarding the formal definition, you put the whole thing, wouldn't be useful to put the corresponding ..
14:09:03 <Zakim> -achuter
14:09:17 <yeliz> Francois: I agree, everyone would understand what it means, so I think you are right
14:10:07 <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Properly define X-Device-* HTTP headers in the Content Transformation guidelines using references to the appropriate sections of RFC2616
14:10:13 <tomhume> +1
14:10:15 <EdC> +1
14:10:16 <francois> +1
14:10:16 <yeliz> +1
14:10:17 <SeanP> +1
14:10:17 <jeffs> +1
14:10:28 <yeliz> RESOLUTION: Properly define X-Device-* HTTP headers in the Content Transformation guidelines using references to the appropriate sections of RFC2616
14:10:51 <yeliz> Francois: not sure about the remaining topics
14:11:25 <EdC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Apr/0037.html
14:11:25 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Apr/0037.html Eduardo's proposal for an abstract for CT
14:12:02 <yeliz> Francois: "same origin policy" requires other people to be able to discuss so I suggest we postpone this
14:12:16 <jeffs> +1 on Francois' comment
14:12:26 <yeliz> Francois: lets look at Abstract suggested by Eduardo
14:12:36 <SeanP> q+
14:12:39 <yeliz> Francois: I think it is quite long
14:13:13 <yeliz> Sean: reference to Web applications, I know what it means but it can be confusing
14:13:25 <yeliz> Sean: usually people do transformation on simpler pages
14:13:44 <yeliz> Sean: I think what Eduardo saying here is more than just simple Web pages, javascript involved, etc
14:13:57 <yeliz> Sean: Web applications to me refers to Widgets
14:14:09 <yeliz> Francois: what about saying "Web resources"
14:14:19 <yeliz> Francois: Eduardo, what do you think about this?
14:14:30 <yeliz> Eduardo: is there a standard terminology?
14:14:50 <yeliz> Francois: yes, Web resources is the "standard" terminology
14:15:13 <yeliz> Francois: need to find the exact definition for the record
14:15:15 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-webarch-20041215/#intro WebArch definition of the Web and resources
14:15:42 <yeliz> Francois: this document refers to "Web resources"
14:16:45 <yeliz> Francois: this needs to be discussed on the mailing list. Can we postpone the discussion to next week?
14:17:00 <yeliz> Francois: so people have time to look at it and discuss on the mailing list
14:17:15 <francois> Topic: Feature phones vs. Smartphone
14:17:23 <yeliz> Topic: Feature phones vs. Smartphone
14:17:24 <francois> ISSUE-296?
14:17:24 <trackbot> ISSUE-296 -- "feature phone vs. smartphone, which handsets will make large web traffic ?" -- OPEN
14:17:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/296
14:18:02 <EdC> I already sent something.
14:18:09 <yeliz> Francois: Jonathan asked for comments on the mailing list, we will not discuss on the call
14:18:30 <yeliz> Francois: is there anything that we can possibly discuss here about your comment Eduardo?
14:19:31 <yeliz> Eduardo: are the results of this discussion will be used?
14:19:50 <yeliz> Francois: the result will affect Web applications BP but not directly
14:20:06 <francois> s/will affect/could affect/
14:20:49 <yeliz> Eduardo: I would be interested to get an overview of the terminology from far East, since we have people here from Korea
14:21:23 <yeliz> Eduardo: South Korea, and Japan, so it would be good to know about the developments there
14:21:41 <yeliz> Francois: Please take a look at the document and send an email to the mailing list
14:21:48 <yeliz> Francois: any other business?
14:22:06 <jeffs> <waves/>
14:22:11 <yeliz> Francois: Thanks for all attending
14:22:13 <Zakim> -tomhume
14:22:14 <EdC> bye, till next week.
14:22:16 <yeliz> Zakim, unmute yeliz
14:22:16 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:22:19 <Zakim> -SeanP
14:22:20 <Zakim> -jeffs
14:22:20 <Zakim> -Adam
14:22:22 <Zakim> -Francois
14:22:22 <miguel> miguel has left #bpwg
14:22:28 <Zakim> -EdC
14:22:29 <Zakim> -miguel
14:22:33 <Zakim> -yeliz
14:22:33 <jsmanrique> bye
14:26:35 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:26:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/28-bpwg-minutes.html francois
14:44:23 <francois> Chair: francois
14:44:51 <francois> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:44:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see jsmanrique
14:45:01 <francois> zakim, drop jsmanrique
14:45:01 <Zakim> jsmanrique is being disconnected
14:45:03 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has ended
14:45:04 <Zakim> Attendees were tomhume, Francois, +0207881aabb, Adam, EdC, yeliz, miguel, +03491121aacc, +1.585.278.aadd, achuter, jeffs, SeanP, jsmanrique
14:45:11 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:45:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/28-bpwg-minutes.html francois
15:00:55 <jo> jo has joined #bpwg
15:04:16 <francois> RRSAgent, bye
15:04:16 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/28-bpwg-actions.rdf :
15:04:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: adam to draft a BP on login forms adapting previous resolutions on the topic for discussion [1]
15:04:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/28-bpwg-irc#T13-50-21
15:04:20 <francois> Zakim, byes
15:04:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'byes', francois
15:04:22 <francois> Zakim, bye