IRC log of au on 2009-04-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:50:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
19:50:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-irc
19:50:43 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
19:50:43 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 50 minutes ago
19:50:49 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
19:51:17 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0023.html
20:00:32 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
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+Jeanne
20:01:11 [AnnM]
AnnM has joined #au
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+ +0208123aaaa
20:01:39 [Zakim]
+??P12
20:01:52 [Zakim]
+??P13
20:02:36 [Jan]
zakim, aaaa is really AnnM
20:02:36 [Zakim]
+AnnM; got it
20:03:06 [Jan]
zakim, ??P12 is really Andrew
20:03:06 [Zakim]
+Andrew; got it
20:03:09 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.678.aabb
20:03:14 [Jan]
zakim, ??P13 is really Jan
20:03:14 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
20:03:32 [Jan]
zakim, aabb is really JeanneS
20:03:32 [Zakim]
+JeanneS; got it
20:04:00 [Jan]
zakim, JeanneS is really GregP
20:04:00 [Zakim]
+GregP; got it
20:04:07 [Jan]
zakim, whos' here?
20:04:07 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, Jan.
20:04:13 [Jan]
zakim, who's here?
20:04:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jeanne, AnnM, Andrew, Jan, GregP
20:04:14 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AnnM, RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan, Andrew, trackbot
20:04:26 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
20:04:30 [Jan]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:04:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jeanne, AnnM, Andrew, Jan, GregP, Tim_Boland
20:04:49 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
20:04:58 [Greg]
Greg has joined #au
20:05:50 [Greg]
I am online
20:06:27 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
20:06:41 [Greg]
action: Greg and Jeanne details for face to face
20:06:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-141 - And Jeanne details for face to face [on Greg Pisocky - due 2009-05-04].
20:09:04 [Jan]
scribe: Greg
20:09:15 [Jan]
chair: Jutta Treviranus
20:09:36 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:09:44 [Greg]
Face to face dates June 15 and 16, 2009 Adobe offices in McLean VA
20:10:02 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really JuttaT
20:10:02 [Zakim]
+JuttaT; got it
20:10:07 [Greg]
Goal is to come out of f 2 f with last call draft
20:10:15 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0023.html
20:11:04 [Greg]
Today's Agenda:
20:11:06 [Greg]
Agenda:
20:11:07 [Greg]
1. TB's comments with JR's proposals:
20:11:09 [Greg]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0014.html
20:11:11 [Greg]
2. GPs issue re: examples of tools
20:11:13 [Greg]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0018.html
20:11:15 [Greg]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0022.html
20:11:16 [Greg]
3. External comments on public draft:
20:11:18 [Greg]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-atag2-comments/2009Mar/0000.html
20:12:09 [Greg]
Jutta asks are there documents needed to accompany the last call draft in order to be prepared to issue it as the outcome of the face to face meeting
20:12:20 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #au
20:12:41 [Greg]
Jan indicates Guidelines is the only document that is normative
20:12:59 [jeanne]
action: JS to research any necessary preparation for Last Call draft to be completed before the F2F.
20:12:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-142 - Research any necessary preparation for Last Call draft to be completed before the F2F. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-05-04].
20:13:21 [Jan]
Topic: Authoring Tool examples
20:13:23 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0018.html
20:13:47 [Greg]
Item 2 will be first in today's agenda 2. GPs issue re: examples of tools
20:13:49 [Greg]
[16:11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0018.html
20:13:51 [Greg]
[16:11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0022.html
20:14:44 [Jan]
Current wording: http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/#intro-def-au
20:15:03 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0022.html
20:16:13 [Jan]
Old:The definition applies to all or part of the following types of applications:
20:16:15 [Jan]
•WYSIWYG editors, plain text editors (embedded and stand-alone)
20:16:17 [Jan]
•conversion tools, software that can output Web content technologies (e.g., "Save as HTML")
20:16:19 [Jan]
•blogging tools, wikis, online forums, emailers that produce Web-content
20:16:20 [Jan]
•multimedia authoring tools
20:16:21 [Jan]
•scripting tools, widget development environment
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•content management systems, courseware tools, content aggregators
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•site management tools
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•others
20:16:32 [Jan]
NEW: Notes on the Definition:
20:16:34 [Jan]
1. ATAG 2.0 applies to a wide variety of *Web content* generating
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applications, such as:
20:16:38 [Jan]
- "conventional" webpage authoring tools (e.g., WYSIWYG HTML editors)
20:16:39 [Jan]
- software for directly editing source code (e.g., text editors)
20:16:41 [Jan]
- software for *converting* to *Web content technologies* (e.g., "Save
20:16:42 [Jan]
as HTML" features in office suites)
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- integrated development environments (e.g., for DHTML)
20:16:45 [Jan]
- software that generates Web content on the basis of templates,
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scripts, command-line input or wizard processes
20:16:49 [Jan]
- software for rapidly updating portions of webpages (e.g., blogging,
20:16:51 [Jan]
wikis, online forums)
20:16:52 [Jan]
- software for generating/managing entire sites (e.g., content
20:16:54 [Jan]
management systems, courseware tools, content aggregators)
20:16:55 [Jan]
- email clients that send messages in Web content technologies
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- multimedia authoring tools
20:17:50 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
20:18:13 [Zakim]
-JuttaT
20:18:35 [Jan]
GP: I like it , casts a sufficient net...covers all categories likely to encounter
20:18:36 [Zakim]
+??P8
20:18:47 [Jan]
zakim, ??P8 is really Jutta T
20:18:47 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P8 is really Jutta T', Jan
20:18:50 [Jan]
zakim, ??P8 is really JuttaT
20:18:50 [Zakim]
+JuttaT; got it
20:19:29 [Jan]
- integrated development environments (e.g., for Web Application development)
20:20:26 [Greg]
Jutta looking to inlcude the phrase "include but is not limited to"
20:21:08 [Jan]
JT: "applications, such as" => "including, but not limited to:"
20:21:24 [jeanne]
+1
20:22:10 [Greg]
+1
20:22:18 [Jan]
1. ATAG 2.0 applies to a wide variety of *Web content* generating
20:22:20 [Jan]
applications, including, but not limited to:
20:22:22 [Jan]
- "conventional" webpage authoring tools (e.g., WYSIWYG HTML editors)
20:22:23 [Jan]
- software for directly editing source code (e.g., text editors)
20:22:25 [Jan]
- software for *converting* to *Web content technologies* (e.g., "Save
20:22:26 [Jan]
as HTML" features in office suites)
20:22:28 [Jan]
- integrated development environments (e.g., for Web Application development)
20:22:29 [Jan]
- software that generates Web content on the basis of templates,
20:22:31 [Jan]
scripts, command-line input or wizard processes
20:22:32 [Jan]
- software for rapidly updating portions of webpages (e.g., blogging,
20:22:34 [Jan]
wikis, online forums)
20:22:36 [Jan]
- software for generating/managing entire sites (e.g., content
20:22:38 [Jan]
management systems, courseware tools, content aggregators)
20:22:39 [Jan]
- email clients that send messages in Web content technologies
20:22:41 [Jan]
- multimedia authoring tools
20:22:46 [jeanne]
action: JS to update the definition of authoring tool from the introduction with the edits above.
20:22:46 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-143 - Update the definition of authoring tool from the introduction with the edits above. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-05-04].
20:23:08 [Jan]
Here are the other two notes:
20:23:10 [Jan]
2. Any guidelines that require *authors* to modify content in some way
20:23:12 [Jan]
always assumes that the person has *author permission*.
20:23:14 [Jan]
3. Applications that are used to create content in real time (e.g.,
20:23:16 [Jan]
chats, collaboration tools, whiteboards, etc.) should attempt to conform
20:23:17 [Jan]
at least to Part A. In addition, many of the guidelines in Part B may
20:23:18 [Jan]
also apply, especially if the application has an archiving feature. For
20:23:20 [Jan]
more information, see the Techniques: Appendix E: Real-time content
20:23:21 [Jan]
production.
20:24:14 [Jan]
Topic: Changes from TB,JR
20:24:48 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0014.html
20:26:01 [jtrevir]
jtrevir has joined #au
20:26:10 [Greg]
Item 2 TB went through the document to verify the definitions
20:26:13 [Jan]
> 2.1.4:
20:26:15 [Jan]
> available programmatically
20:26:17 [Jan]
CURRENT:
20:26:18 [Jan]
image label present in the content is available programmatically
20:26:20 [Jan]
PROPOSED:
20:26:22 [Jan]
image label present in the content is available via a *platform
20:26:23 [Jan]
accessibility architecture*
20:27:48 [Jan]
All: No objections
20:28:25 [Jan]
> A.2.2.1:
20:28:27 [Jan]
> functional purpose
20:28:28 [Jan]
CURRENT:
20:28:30 [Jan]
the functional purpose for the modification
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PROPOSED:
20:28:33 [Jan]
a description of the purpose of the modification
20:29:26 [Jan]
All: No objections
20:29:44 [Jan]
> A.2.2.2:
20:29:46 [Jan]
> WYSIWYG (need to spell out?)
20:29:47 [Jan]
PROPOSED: New term:
20:29:49 [Jan]
WYSIWYG
20:29:51 [Jan]
This is an acronym for "What You See Is What You Get". A WYSIWYG user
20:29:53 [Jan]
interface displays (to authors) the content being edited in a way that
20:29:55 [Jan]
is very similar to how it will appear to end users.
20:30:18 [Jan]
All: No objections
20:30:55 [Jan]
> keyboard trap
20:30:57 [Jan]
PROPOSED: New term:
20:30:58 [Jan]
keyboard trap
20:31:00 [Jan]
A user interface phenomenon in which the keyboard may be used to move
20:31:02 [Jan]
focus to, but not from, a control or group of controls.
20:32:19 [Jan]
A user interface situation in which the keyboard may be used to move focus to, but not from, a control or group of controls.
20:32:52 [jeanne]
+1
20:33:46 [Jan]
All: No objections
20:33:51 [Jan]
> A.3.2.3:
20:33:53 [Jan]
> moving target
20:33:54 [Jan]
> selectable component
20:33:56 [Jan]
CURRENT:
20:33:58 [Jan]
If the user interface includes any moving targets for authors' actions
20:34:00 [Jan]
(e.g.,a selectable component of an animation), then authors can stop
20:34:01 [Jan]
that movement.
20:34:03 [Jan]
PROPOSED:
20:34:05 [Jan]
If a user interface component that accepts mouse input is capable of
20:34:07 [Jan]
movement (e.g., animated vector graphic), provide authors with the
20:34:09 [Jan]
option to stop the movement.
20:34:40 [Jan]
All: No objections.
20:35:15 [Jan]
> A.3.3.1:
20:35:17 [Jan]
> static view
20:35:18 [Jan]
> time-based content
20:35:20 [Jan]
> fixed state
20:35:22 [Jan]
CURRENT:
20:35:24 [Jan]
If an editing view renders content (e.g., WYSIWYG) then the author has
20:35:26 [Jan]
the global option of a static view in which time-based content appears
20:35:27 [Jan]
in a fixed state.
20:35:29 [Jan]
PROPOSED:
20:35:30 [Jan]
If an editing view renders time-based content (e.g., animations),
20:35:32 [Jan]
provide authors with the global option of rendering only the initial
20:35:33 [Jan]
state of time-based content.
20:36:09 [Jan]
All: No objections
20:37:08 [Jan]
> A.3.4.4:
20:37:10 [Jan]
> Doesn't above, below, preceding, etc. depend on navigation order?
20:37:12 [Jan]
OPEN ISSUE: Is this really unclear?
20:37:30 [Jan]
A.3.4.4 Navigate Tree Structures: If an editing view displays a structured element set, authors can, with a simple action, move the editing focus from any element to other elements in the set with any of the following relationships (if they exist) (Level AA):
20:37:32 [Jan]
•(a) Parent: the element immediately above,
20:37:34 [Jan]
•(b) Child: the first element immediately below,
20:37:35 [Jan]
•(c) Previous Sibling: the element immediately preceding at the same level, and
20:37:37 [Jan]
•(d) Next Sibling: the element immediately following at the same level.
20:39:19 [Jan]
All: Group is ok with current wording
20:39:33 [Zakim]
-JuttaT
20:39:56 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:40:38 [Jan]
> accessibility option-setting "wizard"
20:40:40 [Jan]
CURRENT:
20:40:41 [Jan]
...an accessibility option-setting "wizard" to configure options related
20:40:43 [Jan]
to Part A
20:40:44 [Jan]
PROPOSED:
20:40:46 [Jan]
..."wizard"-type feature that helps them to configure any
20:40:48 [Jan]
accessibility-related preference settings related to Part A
20:42:03 [Jan]
A.3.6.3 Options Wizard: Authors are provided with an accessibility option-setting "wizard" to configure options related to Part A. (Level AAA)
20:42:12 [Jan]
JT: INteractive dialog
20:44:29 [Jan]
A.3.6.3 Interactive Options Assistance: An interactive dialog helps helps with configure options related to Part A. (Level AAA)
20:45:27 [Jan]
A.3.6.3 Interactive Options Assistance: An interactive mechanism helps authors configure options related to Part A. (Level AAA)
20:46:07 [Jan]
All: No objections
20:47:11 [Jan]
A.3.6.3 Options Assistance: An interactive mechanism helps authors configure options related to Part A. (Level AAA)
20:47:17 [Jan]
All: No objections
20:47:53 [Jan]
> A.3.7.1:
20:47:55 [Jan]
> help system
20:47:56 [Jan]
CURRENT:
20:47:58 [Jan]
If a preview is provided, then it is possible to return from the preview
20:47:59 [Jan]
using a simple action which is documented in the help system.
20:48:01 [Jan]
PROPOSED:
20:48:03 [Jan]
If a *preview* is provided, provide a *documented* keyboard accessible
20:48:05 [Jan]
mechanism for returning to an *editing view* from the preview.
20:48:43 [Jan]
All: No objections
20:48:45 [jeanne]
+1
20:49:03 [Jan]
> A.4.1.1:
20:49:05 [Jan]
> irreversible
20:49:06 [Jan]
CURRENT:
20:49:08 [Jan]
reversible actions
20:49:10 [Jan]
Authoring actions that, by their nature, can be completely undone so
20:49:11 [Jan]
that the system returns to the state it was in before the action.
20:49:13 [Jan]
Actions that are not reversible may include certain save and delete
20:49:14 [Jan]
actions as well as actions made in a collaborative environment that
20:49:16 [Jan]
another author has begun to work with.
20:49:18 [Jan]
PROPOSED:
20:49:20 [Jan]
reversible actions
20:49:22 [Jan]
Authoring actions that, by their nature, can be completely undone so
20:49:23 [Jan]
that the system returns to the state it was in before the action.
20:49:25 [Jan]
*Irreversible actions* are actions that cannot be reversed and may
20:49:27 [Jan]
include certain save and delete actions as well as actions made in a
20:49:28 [Jan]
collaborative environment that another author has begun to work with.
20:50:21 [Jan]
All: No objections
20:51:09 [Jan]
> third-party feed
20:51:11 [Jan]
CURRENT:
20:51:13 [Jan]
third-party feed
20:51:14 [Jan]
PROPOSED:
20:51:16 [Jan]
an RSS feed from a third-party
20:51:32 [Jan]
All: No objections
20:52:27 [Jan]
JT: Actually...
20:52:42 [Jan]
Responsibility After Authoring Sessions: Authoring tools are not responsible for accessibility problems that result from carrying out instructions made by the author during authoring sessions (e.g., the content of a third-party feed specified by the author), but they are responsible if the changes are automatically generated (e.g., the developer makes site wide changes to a CMS).
20:53:44 [Jan]
JT: Let's use "third-pary content"
21:01:07 [Jan]
Action Jan: Track down our text re: passing through content authored on other tools
21:01:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-144 - Track down our text re: passing through content authored on other tools [on Jan Richards - due 2009-05-04].
21:01:08 [Jan]
21:01:20 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
21:02:26 [Greg]
Next meeting May 11, 2009
21:02:43 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
21:02:44 [Zakim]
-AnnM
21:02:44 [Zakim]
-GregP
21:02:46 [AnnM]
AnnM has left #au
21:02:48 [Zakim]
-Jan
21:02:51 [Zakim]
-Andrew
21:02:52 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
21:02:53 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jeanne, +0208123aaaa, AnnM, Andrew, +1.703.678.aabb, Jan, GregP, Tim_Boland, JuttaT, [IPcaller]
21:04:18 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:04:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-minutes.html Jan
21:04:39 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
21:17:23 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
21:17:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
21:17:29 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
21:17:29 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-actions.rdf :
21:17:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Greg and Jeanne details for face to face [1]
21:17:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-irc#T20-06-41
21:17:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to research any necessary preparation for Last Call draft to be completed before the F2F. [2]
21:17:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-irc#T20-12-59
21:17:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to update the definition of authoring tool from the introduction with the edits above. [3]
21:17:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-irc#T20-22-46
21:17:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jan to Track down our text re: passing through content authored on other tools [4]
21:17:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/27-au-irc#T21-01-07