IRC log of xhtml on 2009-04-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:42:04 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:42:06 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:42:06 [Zakim]
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13:42:08 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
13:42:08 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:42:09 [trackbot]
Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
13:42:09 [trackbot]
Date: 22 April 2009
13:42:21 [Roland]
13:42:27 [Roland]
Chair: Roland
13:42:49 [Tina]
I sent a regret message (no voice).
13:43:06 [Tina]
It appears it got lost somewhere in the W3C mailing list system.
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IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
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13:44:51 [Steven]
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13:45:22 [Zakim]
13:46:09 [Zakim]
13:46:24 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
13:46:24 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:46:25 [Zakim]
13:47:09 [alessio]
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13:48:09 [oedipus]
regrets+ Tina
13:49:08 [Zakim]
13:49:20 [alessio]
zakim, IPcaller is Alessio
13:49:20 [Zakim]
+Alessio; got it
13:50:06 [ShaneM]
zakim, who is here
13:50:06 [Zakim]
ShaneM, you need to end that query with '?'
13:50:07 [Steven]
scribe: Steven
13:50:09 [Zakim]
13:50:10 [ShaneM]
zakim, who is here?
13:50:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roland, Markus, McCarron, Steven, Alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita
13:50:12 [Zakim]
On IRC I see alessio, Steven, oedipus, Zakim, RRSAgent, markus, Roland, ShaneM, Tina, markbirbeck, trackbot
13:50:55 [Steven]
13:51:01 [Steven]
Topic: Documents
13:51:19 [Steven]
Subtopic: PERs
13:52:37 [oedipus]
SP: out of our hands now that transition request submitted; wait until end of review period - approximately 4 weeks
13:52:42 [oedipus]
RM: end of may, then?
13:52:52 [oedipus]
SP: yes
13:52:58 [Steven]
Subtopic: Access
13:53:11 [Roland]
13:53:11 [oedipus]
13:53:18 [oedipus]
13:54:14 [oedipus]
SP: sinking feeling comparing DIFF document and current draft cited above -- normative change - not quite happy with going to CR, but fear must go back through LC -- added @media and @order so probably need to recycle
13:54:17 [oedipus]
RM: correct
13:54:38 [oedipus]
SP: don't think can get away with CR, have to take to Last Call again because of normative changes
13:55:09 [oedipus]
proposed RESOLVED: cycle Access Module back through Last Call
13:55:31 [oedipus]
RESOLVED: cycle Access Module back through Last Call
13:55:40 [oedipus]
SM: timing?
13:55:46 [oedipus]
RM: short document - short LC
13:55:51 [oedipus]
SP: official minimum is 3 weeks
13:56:11 [oedipus]
SP: HCG call this friday at which will mention - can ask if any objections to 3 or 4 week LC period
13:56:26 [oedipus]
SM: target 31 may 2009 as END of review period
13:56:43 [oedipus]
RESOLVED: XHTML2 WG will target 29 May 2009 as end of review period
13:57:02 [oedipus]
SP: need to update action item to request LC
13:57:34 [oedipus]
i/SP: out of our hands/ScribeNick+ oedipus
13:58:11 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:58:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
13:58:31 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make logs world
14:00:29 [oedipus]
14:00:44 [Steven]
scribe: Steven
14:01:08 [Steven]
Subtopic: WAI-ARIA last call comments
14:01:47 [Steven]
Steven: As I understand it, the ball is in WAI's court, to provide new wording, and run it past the affected people
14:02:11 [Steven]
Gregory: There is some worry about ARIA being delayed
14:04:22 [Steven]
... I am also missing a role="form"
14:06:28 [Steven]
Roland: Let's discuss this at length tomorrow
14:06:38 [oedipus]
ACTION: Gregory - prepare wiki page with background to ARIA's role dependency question
14:06:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-75 - - prepare wiki page with background to ARIA's role dependency question [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-04-29].
14:06:39 [Steven]
Topic: Actions
14:07:02 [oedipus]
f2f agenda request - D for dialog:
14:07:02 [oedipus]
D for dialog issue - "a single letter element to mark dialog (block and inline) should be added to XHTML2":
14:07:03 [Steven]
14:07:36 [Tina]
I'd suggest 'dialogue' instead of 'd'
14:08:00 [oedipus]
tina, dialogue is problematic because of dialog - a different concept entirely
14:08:33 [oedipus]
tina, HTML5's mistake is to use dialog as the element name - it is wrong, plus D will be used A LOT on pages (short stories, etc.) so a terse element name is best
14:08:56 [Steven]
Subtopic: action 67
14:08:59 [Tina]
'd' is problematic 'cause it's a single letter. Being terse isn't a good idea in a language designed for both automatic and manual production.
14:09:01 [Steven]
Close ACTION-67
14:09:01 [trackbot]
ACTION-67 - talk to Richard to ask if someone from ITS can join an XHTML2 call to discuss this further closed
14:10:57 [Steven]
Roland: We can do 71 tomorrow
14:11:07 [Steven]
Gregory: I can see if Janina can join us tomorrow
14:11:37 [Steven]
Roland: 73?
14:11:55 [Steven]
Shane: Not done yet
14:12:01 [Steven]
... actually really hard
14:13:08 [ShaneM]
14:13:31 [Steven]
close action-74
14:13:31 [trackbot]
ACTION-74 Reply to message 0002 closed
14:13:51 [Steven]
Roland: 75?
14:14:20 [Steven]
Shane: Just created!
14:14:25 [Steven]
14:15:06 [Steven]
Topic: VFtF Agenda
14:15:15 [Steven]
14:15:34 [oedipus]
tina, the complaint is two-fold: HTML5 is considering an element akin to ARIA's "dialogbox" which would be "dialog" which has a specific programmatic meeting (computing term) whereas all of the english-language reference works explicitly state that "dialogue" is the proper term, but it is a homonym with "dialog" which is a different concept, so to keep ambiguity to a minimum, i have proposed D
14:15:40 [Steven]
Roland: What do we need to talk about for new draft of XHTML2?
14:15:49 [oedipus]
f2f agenda request - D for dialog:
14:16:44 [Steven]
Markus: Expressing subsets in modularization
14:17:48 [Steven]
Steven: Isn't that M12N v2 rather than XHTML2?
14:18:12 [Steven]
Shane: All our work is public now
14:18:41 [Steven]
... so I don't understand why we need editor's drafts and WDs
14:19:26 [Steven]
Steven: A WD is more visible, and an announcement gets made when we produce a WD
14:19:54 [Steven]
Roland: :And the 'Previous version' links only link WDs
14:19:58 [Steven]
14:20:10 [Steven]
Markus: XForms integration is the largest undone work
14:20:15 [Steven]
Shane: And ITS
14:20:21 [Steven]
... and XML Events 2, which is related
14:20:42 [ShaneM]
zakim, who is noisy?
14:20:42 [Zakim]
I am sorry, ShaneM; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now
14:21:34 [Steven]
Shane: Also finishing Relax NG and Schema implementations, which are dependent on those issues above
14:21:52 [Steven]
... though we could mark them as Work in Progress
14:22:03 [Steven]
... and publish tomorrow
14:22:28 [Steven]
Shane: I do have a marked up version of the last ED with many editorial changes which still need to be made
14:22:38 [Steven]
... another editorial eye would be good
14:22:57 [Steven]
Roland: How about sharing that work out?
14:23:09 [Steven]
Shane: Each section had a champion in the past
14:23:23 [Steven]
... but we don't have that at present
14:23:58 [Steven]
Roland: It helps that we now include stiff by reference
14:24:07 [Steven]
14:24:19 [Steven]
Shane: Suggest a date Roland!
14:24:23 [Steven]
Roland: In May
14:24:34 [Steven]
... let's discuss this tomorrow
14:25:31 [Steven]
... I have updated the wiki
14:26:27 [alessio]
zakim, mute me
14:26:27 [Zakim]
Alessio should now be muted
14:27:15 [alessio]
14:27:46 [Steven]
14:28:05 [Steven]
Steven: Can we just prepare now for the ITS discussion?
14:28:43 [Steven]
Roland: Let us prep before 14utc, ready for the actual discussion at 14utc
14:28:48 [Steven]
Steven: Excellent
14:28:57 [alessio]
14:30:32 [Steven]
Previous discussion -
14:32:15 [alessio]
zakim, unmute me
14:32:15 [Zakim]
Alessio should no longer be muted
14:32:28 [Zakim]
14:32:30 [Zakim]
14:32:33 [Zakim]
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14:32:38 [Zakim]
14:32:40 [Zakim]
IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
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Attendees were Roland, Markus, McCarron, Steven, Alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita
14:32:41 [Steven]
14:33:45 [Steven]
rrsagent, make log public
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14:35:06 [Roland]
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