06:32:28 RRSAgent has joined #svg 06:32:29 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/22-svg-irc 06:32:30 RRSAgent, make logs public 06:32:31 Zakim has joined #svg 06:32:32 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 06:32:32 ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago 06:32:33 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 06:32:33 Date: 22 April 2009 06:32:48 yikes 06:33:00 GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has now started 06:33:08 +Doug_Schepers 06:33:20 +??P1 06:33:29 Zakim, ??P1 is me 06:33:29 +ed; got it 06:33:39 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009AprJun/0055.html 06:33:45 +??P4 06:33:47 +??P2 06:33:48 Zakim, ??P4 is me 06:33:49 +heycam; got it 06:34:14 +[IPcaller] 06:34:21 Zakim, [IP is me 06:34:21 +anthony; got it 06:34:27 +ChrisL 06:34:57 zakim, who is noisy? 06:34:57 I am sorry, ChrisL; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now 06:35:06 zakim, you suck 06:35:06 I don't understand 'you suck', ChrisL 06:35:08 Zakim, ??P2 is me 06:35:08 +jwatt; got it 06:35:14 (probably) 06:35:49 Scribe: anthony 06:35:52 Chair: Erik 06:36:06 Topic: SVG Color 06:36:18 CL: I sent in some notes 06:36:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009AprJun/0057.html 06:36:41 CL: First thing 06:36:49 ... was case insensitivity 06:37:07 ... DS had complained that there was mixed casing 06:37:21 ... AG and I explained that's how it should be specified in the color world 06:37:46 ... I tested the mixed case RGB 06:37:48 firefox 3.1 case-insensitive 06:37:48 opera 10a case-sensitive 06:37:48 safari 4b (crash!) 06:37:48 batik 1.7 case-insensitive 06:37:48 asv3 allows rgb or RGB but not mixed case 06:38:10 CL: Those are my results 06:38:29 Zakim, unmute anthony 06:38:29 anthony should no longer be muted 06:38:49 CL: Need someone to test a different build of Safari 06:38:59 ... Mixed case is not allowed in ASV3 06:39:33 ... my Corel viewer fails to run 06:39:43 DS: Did you test Renesis? 06:39:46 CL: No 06:39:59 ... I'm trying to figure out if I should go to case insensitive 06:40:21 ED: In Opera we are case sensitive for anything that's an attribute 06:40:30 ... it might be possible to change it 06:40:44 JW: For Mozilla, presentation attributes are placed to the style system 06:41:01 ... which is why they are case insensitive 06:41:31 CL: Presumably you'd be arguing for case insensitivity because that's the way you do it? 06:41:40 JW: Depends if it's easy to make it that way or not 06:41:57 ... don't really have a strong opinion on this 06:42:04 CL: Sounds like we have some flexibility 06:42:28 ... I remember Doug's comment 06:43:22 CM: For the general issue I'd be in favor of having presentation attributes case insensitive in general 06:43:56 CL: I guess it'd be ok if it would be case insensitive 06:45:34 ... I attached a test in my email 06:45:40 ED: I can test it in Safari 06:45:47 ... Same color everywhere 06:45:56 CL: Safari is case insensitive 06:49:23 AG: I think it would be ok have case insensitive values, but have the correct/preferred syntax in the spec 06:53:35 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/styling.html#CaseSensitivity 06:56:57 CL: Opera allows lower case in the color key names 06:57:50 ... and mixed case 06:58:06 batik allows upper case and mixed cASe in color names 06:59:30 CM: We can just change RGB in ICC for 1.1 06:59:55 eseidel has joined #svg 07:00:43 ACTION: Chris to Add an item to the F1.1 errata that allows case insensitivity for the 'RGB' value when painting 07:00:43 Created ACTION-2525 - Add an item to the F1.1 errata that allows case insensitivity for the 'RGB' value when painting [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-04-29]. 07:01:09 CL: The next question I had was a bout number format in ICC 07:01:13 number format in icc(name, number, bumber....) 07:01:48 CL: we need to discuss what number format we want 07:01:55 ... because 1.1 only allows a float 07:02:20 ... For attribute values that are not properties scientific notation is allowed 07:02:28 ... I haven't done any tests on what implementations do 07:02:32 ... but I should 07:02:53 CM: It is unlikely that the numbers would require scientific notation because they are so small 07:03:19 ... each color profile defines a standard range? 07:03:24 CL: I don't know 07:03:54 ... some of them allow negative colors to express out of gamut colours 07:04:03 fairly sure that some allow > 1.0 for headroom; believe trhat some cms allow negative values and others clip 07:04:16 CM: I think 0 to 1 makes more sense 07:04:26 CL: Which would be compatible with what 1.1 says 07:05:12 ... values greater than 1 or less than 0 would be out of the profile gamut but no necessarily out of the target gamut 07:05:35 ... I'd be fine with that 07:06:15 RESOLUTION: A float in the range 0 to 1 like SVG 1.1 and no Scientific notation 07:06:24 topic: conformance 07:06:28 - unconformant 07:06:28 - uses fallback colour, ignores profile in tagged images(SVG 1.1/1.2T, but not this spec) 07:06:28 - tagged image conformant 07:06:28 - uses fallback colour, honors profile in tagged images 07:06:28 - fully conformant 07:06:30 - uses icc and device colors in preference to fallback colour, honors profile in tagged images 07:06:39 CL: I'd like to have two conformance levels 07:06:53 ... one is that it doesn't do the color spec 07:06:56 ... always falls back 07:07:03 ... the next one would be that 07:07:16 ... it falls back but does honor the profile in tagged images 07:07:28 ... FireFox does that already according to their release notes 07:07:43 ... What does Opera do in terms of color profiles? 07:07:54 ED: I don't think it does anything useful with them at the moment 07:08:01 ... I think that might be something we implement 07:08:12 CL: The other level of conformance is it does everything 07:10:13 ... It's easier to decide to implement a spec if you already half pass. More so for encouragement 07:11:50 RESOLUTION: There will be two conformance levels in the Color specification 07:12:02 CL: Rendering intents 07:12:14 ... we got some text from HP 07:12:24 ... the text would fit ok, in the Primer 07:12:30 ... it's not exactly specification text 07:12:47 ... but is seems that, relative and absolute colormeric 07:12:54 ... is testable 07:13:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-print/2008Feb/0005.html 07:13:22 ... but perceptual is harder 07:13:25 ... to test 07:15:39 http://www.svgopen.org/2007/papers/PublishingAndPrintingWithSVG/index.html#S8.3.2 07:20:18 ... We might be able to do some tests in the test suite 07:20:39 ... apparently many profiles only include a single rendering intent type 07:20:48 ... the specification needs to specify what to do in that case 07:21:33 ED: We should probably take this to email 07:21:50 Topic: SVG Compositing 07:22:02 ED: Anything to report 07:22:08 AG: I think it's ready to publish 07:22:22 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/compositing/master/ 07:24:01 please ensure that normative and informative references are called out separately 07:27:20 needs to run master2publish, doesn't have a publish subdir 07:30:22 ACTION: Cameron to Get the master2publish script working for the modules 07:30:23 Created ACTION-2526 - Get the master2publish script working for the modules [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-04-29]. 07:31:27 Topic: SVG Integration 07:32:11 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/integration/SVGIntegration.html 07:32:14 DS: So far I don't have much on it 07:32:57 ... I basically took the embedding document and I gave them each a set of feature definitions 07:34:06 ... I don't know if we should put something about CSS in there or not 07:34:16 ... do you think that would be affected? 07:34:26 ... I think it's orthogonal 07:34:48 Feature Definitions: declarative animation, external reference, link traversal, script execution, interaction 07:34:59 ... There is something in HTML5 and you have an iFrame and set it to seamless 07:35:09 ... it will inherit the CSS from the parent document 07:35:17 ... I should probably reference that 07:35:22 ... Each of these things 07:35:30 ... which what I'm calling feature definitions 07:35:40 ... I should put in the feature stings for all of these 07:35:46 ... if you look through the section 07:35:57 ... I give a definition for what the feature is 07:36:00 ... and I give a table 07:36:10 ... and a little explanation of it 07:36:20 ... I have a bunch of referencing mode 07:36:30 ... and I talk about how each feature applies 07:37:32 ... That's are the most complete section I have 07:37:39 ... there other sections to come 07:37:59 ... I slightly worked my original image 07:38:25 s/worked/re-worked/ 07:38:39 ... I took sections out of SVG Tiny 1.2 or SVG 1.1 as appropriate 07:38:49 ... to specify how to make extensions to SVG 07:39:10 ... I intend on talking about foreign name spaces 07:39:51 ... I also talk about encoding 07:39:57 ... XML and non-XML 07:40:23 ... Sections 5 and 6 is where I intend on putting the list of element definitions 07:40:29 ... I'll have a table which will have an element name 07:40:55 ... it will have pointers to either SVG 1.1 or SVG Tiny 1.2 07:41:02 ... to the definitions of the elements 07:41:17 ... and hopefully we will have a list of attributes that can go on the element 07:41:22 q+ 07:41:27 ... I will have the same thing for attributes 07:41:39 CM: So will this be the Union of the specs or the modules? 07:41:47 DS: This will point to any relevant spec 07:42:01 CM: And the intention that this is a place that you can go to 07:42:11 CL: What about when we have modules that are not in Rec? 07:42:49 DS: If this goes to Recommendation, we continuously publish an errata for this 07:42:59 ... it would be multiple editions 07:43:05 CL: Wouldn't really be an errata 07:43:15 DS: I plan on this being part of the Core for SVG 2.0 07:50:37 ... I've also been looking at CDF to see what their strategy is 07:53:06 ... There are some parameters that are defined in CDF that have to do with SVG like whether animation activates 07:53:13 ... that really should be defined in SVG 07:53:24 ... and that might go into this integration spec 07:53:43 ack c 07:55:45 http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum21/11870.htm 07:57:08 Topic: Favicon 07:57:36 ED: I allowed Opera to use SVG for Favicons 07:58:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favicon 07:58:19 CL: Lets assume you do something similar in SVG 07:58:44 ED: What I was thinking of was including the icon in the document itself 07:58:50 ... that would allow script access 07:59:19 DS: I would say, it should be in secure animation mode 07:59:23 ... that would allow animation 07:59:27 ... just not external references 07:59:31 07:59:34 ... so I could use that here 08:00:54 08:04:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favicon 08:04:33