IRC log of au on 2009-04-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:54:29 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
19:54:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/20-au-irc
19:56:09 [JR]
akim, this will be AUWG
19:56:13 [JR]
zakim, this will be AUWG
19:56:13 [Zakim]
ok, JR; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 56 minutes ago
19:56:19 [JR]
Meeting: WAI AU
19:56:32 [JR]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0017.html
19:56:47 [JR]
Chair: Jutta Treviranus
20:00:34 [AnnM]
AnnM has joined #au
20:01:05 [JR]
zakim code?
20:01:07 [JR]
zakim, code?
20:01:07 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2894 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), JR
20:01:16 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
20:01:23 [Zakim]
+??P3
20:01:37 [Zakim]
+ +44.208.123.aaaa
20:01:40 [JR]
zakim, ??P3 is really JR\
20:01:40 [Zakim]
+JR\; got it
20:01:49 [JR]
zakim,JR\ is really JR
20:01:49 [Zakim]
sorry, JR, I do not recognize a party named 'JR\'
20:03:55 [JR]
zakim, who's here?
20:03:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see JR, +44.208.123.aaaa
20:03:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AnnM, RRSAgent, Zakim, JR, trackbot
20:07:28 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:07:50 [JR]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really JR
20:07:50 [Zakim]
+JR; got it
20:08:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.561.582.aabb
20:09:33 [JR]
zakim, +1.561.582.aabb is really SueAnn
20:09:33 [Zakim]
+SueAnn; got it
20:09:53 [JR]
zakim,who'son the phone?
20:09:53 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, JR.
20:09:56 [JR]
zakim,who's on the phone?
20:09:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see JR, +44.208.123.aaaa, JR.a, SueAnn
20:10:19 [JR]
zakim, who's making noise?
20:10:19 [Zakim]
I am sorry, JR; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now
20:10:24 [Zakim]
+Greg_Pisocky
20:10:36 [JR]
zakim, JR.a is really JuttaT
20:10:36 [Zakim]
+JuttaT; got it
20:12:49 [JR]
Topic: B.2.4
20:13:13 [JR]
Topic: F2F Planning
20:14:39 [JR]
AM: Ann can attend by teleconference
20:14:58 [JR]
Action JR: Announce the F2F data and time
20:14:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-140 - Announce the F2F data and time [on Jan Richards - due 2009-04-27].
20:15:26 [jtrevir]
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20:15:28 [JR]
Topic: B.2.4
20:15:37 [JR]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0010.html
20:16:24 [JR]
JR B.2.4 Assist authors with maintaining alternative content fornon-text objects.
20:16:54 [JR]
Rationale: Improperly generated alternative content can create
20:16:56 [JR]
accessibility problems and interfere with accessibility checking.
20:18:17 [JR]
JT: B.2.4 Assist authors with managing alternative content for non-text objects.
20:18:41 [JR]
B.2.4.1 Editable: Authors are able to modify alternative content for
20:18:42 [JR]
non-text objects. This includes types of alternative content that may
20:18:44 [JR]
not typically be displayed on screen by user agents.
20:19:44 [JR]
B.2.4.2 Automated suggestions: During the authoring session, the
20:19:46 [JR]
authoring tool can automatically suggest *alternative content* for
20:19:47 [JR]
non-text objects under the following conditions:
20:19:49 [JR]
- author control: authors have the opportunity to accept, modify, or
20:19:51 [JR]
reject the suggested *alternative content* prior to insertion.
20:19:52 [JR]
- relevant sources: the suggested *alternative content* is only derived
20:19:54 [JR]
from sources designed to be fulfill the same purpose (e.g., suggesting
20:19:55 [JR]
the value of an image's "description" metadata field as a long description).
20:21:37 [JR]
B.2.4.3 Let user agents repair: After the authoring session, the
20:21:39 [JR]
authoring tool does not attempt to repair *alternative content* for
20:21:40 [JR]
non-text objects using text content that is equally available to user
20:21:42 [JR]
agents (e.g., the filename). (Level A)
20:22:18 [Greg]
Greg has joined #au
20:22:23 [JR]
B.2.4.4 Special Values: The authoring tool follows recommendations on
20:22:25 [JR]
special values for *alternative content* (e.g., in HTML4 alt="" denotes
20:22:26 [Zakim]
-JuttaT
20:22:27 [JR]
images that should be ignored by assistive technology). (Level A)
20:23:00 [Zakim]
+??P7
20:23:16 [JR]
B.2.4.5 Save for Reuse: Provide authors with the option of having
20:23:18 [JR]
any *recognized* plain text alternative content that they enter (e.g.,
20:23:20 [JR]
short text labels, long descriptions) stored for future reuse (Level AA).
20:23:47 [JR]
Applicability Note:
20:23:49 [JR]
- This guideline applies when non-text objects are specified by
20:23:50 [JR]
authors (e.g., an author inserts an image). When non-text objects are
20:23:52 [JR]
automatically added by the authoring tool, Guideline B.1.3 applies.
20:23:53 [Sueann]
Sueann has joined #au
20:23:56 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
20:24:47 [JR]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0016.html
20:25:13 [JR]
To help people understand the implications of the proposal
20:25:15 [JR]
(http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0010.html),
20:25:16 [JR]
here's an example workflow of a person uploading a bunch of images to a
20:25:18 [JR]
photo-sharing site:
20:25:19 [JR]
1. author logs into the photo sharing site
20:25:21 [JR]
2. author uses the uploader feature to upload 50 pics of a vacation
20:25:23 [JR]
(XYZ0001.png, XYZ0002.png,..., XYZ0050.png) into an album the author
20:25:25 [JR]
calls "Paris 2009".
20:25:26 [JR]
3. a prompt appears asking the author to write descriptive labels for
20:25:28 [JR]
each image to facilitate text searching and access by people with
20:25:30 [JR]
disabilities. [This meets B.2.1.1 (prompting for accessibility info.
20:25:31 [JR]
req.) and also B.2.4.1.]
20:25:32 [JR]
4. Since no label or description is included in the photo metadata no
20:25:34 [JR]
default @alt value is provided. [meeting B.2.4.2]
20:25:35 [JR]
5. the author logs off without adding individual text alternatives
20:25:37 [JR]
(ending their "authoring session")
20:25:38 [JR]
6. the photo sharing site assigns the @alt strings "Photo 1 of 50 of
20:25:40 [JR]
album Paris 2009" [meeting B.2.4.3 because this info isn't equally
20:25:41 [JR]
available to user agents]
20:25:43 [JR]
7. when the author logs back in they still see indicators on the images
20:25:44 [JR]
and/or the album that reminds them that the images are still lacking
20:25:46 [JR]
descriptive labels. [meeting B.2.2.1 (Check Accessibility req.)]
20:25:48 [JR]
NOTE: the page will NOT meet WCAG 2.0 because the text alternative does
20:25:50 [JR]
not serve the equivalent purpose - BUT REMEMBER there is no absolute
20:25:53 [JR]
requirement of ATAG 2.0 that all user-specified content meet WCAG 2.0.
20:30:29 [JR]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0010.html
20:34:00 [Greg]
+1
20:39:12 [Zakim]
-??P7
20:39:40 [Zakim]
+??P0
20:40:42 [JR]
Resolution: Put in the proposed B.2.4
20:42:19 [JR]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0014.html
20:42:43 [JR]
Topic: TB's comments with JR's proposals:
20:43:00 [JR]
Topic: > Global Note: the "[UAAG 1.0]" designations should be linked to
20:43:02 [JR]
> appropriate version/spec..
20:43:22 [JR]
All: Agree
20:43:58 [JR]
CURRENT:
20:44:00 [JR]
ATAG 2.0 defines an "authoring tool" as any application, part of an
20:44:02 [JR]
application, or collection of applications that authors interact with to
20:44:03 [JR]
create, modify or assemble Web content to be used by other people.PROPOSED:
20:44:05 [JR]
ATAG 2.0 defines an "authoring tool" as any software application, part
20:44:06 [JR]
of an application, or collection of applications that authors interact
20:44:08 [JR]
with to create, modify or assemble Web content to be used by other people.
20:44:32 [JR]
All: Agree
20:44:53 [JR]
CURRENT:
20:44:55 [JR]
- WYSIWYG editors, plain text editors (embedded and stand-alone)
20:44:57 [JR]
PROPOSED:
20:44:58 [JR]
- WYSIWYG editors, plain text editors
20:45:18 [JR]
All: OK
20:45:31 [JR]
GP: Actually...
20:45:37 [JR]
GP: OK
20:46:09 [JR]
Content => Web Content
20:46:14 [JR]
All: OK
20:46:24 [JR]
PROPOSED:
20:46:26 [JR]
APPLICATIONS THAT ARE USED TO CREATE CONTENT IN REAL TIME (e.g., chats,
20:46:27 [JR]
collaboration tools, whiteboards, etc.) are only required to meet Part
20:46:29 [JR]
A. However, many guidelines in Part B may still usefully apply,
20:46:31 [JR]
especially if the AUTHORING tool archives as Web content. For more
20:46:33 [JR]
information, please see the Techniques - Appendix E: Real-time content
20:46:35 [JR]
production.
20:46:54 [JR]
All: OK
20:47:45 [JR]
PROPOSED:
20:47:47 [JR]
Generally use "authoring tool" instead of just "tool".
20:47:57 [JR]
All: OK
20:48:23 [JR]
functions related to accessibility=>accessible content support features
20:48:48 [JR]
All: OK
20:49:11 [JR]
> Relationship to the WCAG:
20:49:13 [JR]
> Do we want to still list "WCAG1.0" after "e.g.", since WCAG2.0 is
20:49:15 [JR]
> now a rec?
20:49:51 [JR]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-ATAG20-20090217/#intro-rel-wcag
20:51:00 [JR]
JR: Concerns about older tools
20:51:08 [JR]
GP: WCAG2 is the current standard
20:51:50 [JR]
TB: WCAG group is trying to push adoption of next WCAG version
20:54:47 [Greg]
wcag 2.0 only
20:56:07 [JR]
TB: +1
20:56:10 [JR]
AM:+1
20:56:42 [JR]
JT: Brings up point of system meeting wcag2 vs. all pages meeting wcag2
20:59:07 [JR]
JT: WCAG2 takes the "every page" approach
20:59:48 [Zakim]
-??P0
21:00:20 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
21:00:43 [Zakim]
- +44.208.123.aaaa
21:00:44 [Zakim]
-SueAnn
21:00:45 [Zakim]
-Greg_Pisocky
21:00:50 [Greg]
I also remembered more than just wysig and text required, template, command line driven
21:00:53 [Zakim]
-JR
21:00:54 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
21:00:55 [Zakim]
Attendees were +44.208.123.aaaa, JR\, JR, SueAnn, Greg_Pisocky, JuttaT, Tim_Boland
21:08:49 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:08:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/20-au-minutes.html JR
21:12:52 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs public
21:12:58 [JR]
Zakim, bye
21:12:58 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
21:13:03 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
21:13:03 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/20-au-actions.rdf :
21:13:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Announce the F2F data and time [1]
21:13:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/20-au-irc#T20-14-58