06:54:28 RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag 06:54:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-irc 06:54:30 RRSAgent, make logs public 06:54:30 Zakim has joined #mediafrag 06:54:32 Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG 06:54:32 ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()3:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes 06:54:33 Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference 06:54:33 Date: 17 April 2009 07:05:59 dsinger has joined #mediafrag 07:07:12 davy has joined #mediafrag 07:08:14 raphael has joined #mediafrag 07:08:52 mhausenblas has joined #mediafrag 07:09:05 Silvia, you miss some amazing food yesterday night, but you will see the pretty pictures taken :-) 07:09:18 you miss as well the longggggggggggggg drink session :-) 07:09:29 trackbot, start telecon 07:09:31 RRSAgent, make logs public 07:09:33 Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG 07:09:33 ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()3:00AM scheduled to start 9 minutes ago 07:09:34 Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference 07:09:34 Date: 17 April 2009 07:10:16 Chair: Erik, Raphael 07:10:48 Present: Erik, Davy, Guillaume, Michael, Jack, Conrad, Raphael, Frank (observer), Yves (remote), Silvia (remote), Dave 07:11:04 guillaume has joined #mediafrag 07:11:14 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ThirdF2FAgenda 07:11:30 any changes to the agenda? 07:11:58 Meeting: Media Fragments WG, 3rd F2F Meeting - Barcelona (Spain) 07:12:22 yes Silvia, we will start with the session: Implementation Reports 07:12:32 ... then talk about the issues 07:12:52 ... and finally about the test cases, where we need to kick off the work 07:12:59 Does that suit you ? 07:13:45 davy_ has joined #mediafrag 07:14:25 sure 07:17:36 Silvia, we are waiting for Jack, coming in a few minutes 07:17:38 erik has joined #mediafrag 07:17:44 ... and Yves, that he could phone us 07:17:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 07:18:02 conrad has joined #mediafrag 07:25:36 zakim, call mediafrag-f2f 07:25:36 ok, raphael; the call is being made 07:25:37 IA_MFWG()3:00AM has now started 07:25:38 +Mediafrag 07:25:54 Zakim, who is here? 07:25:54 On the phone I see Mediafrag 07:25:55 On IRC I see conrad, erik, davy_, guillaume, mhausenblas, raphael, dsinger, Zakim, RRSAgent, silvia, Yves, trackbot 07:27:03 Zakim, who is making noise? 07:27:03 I am sorry, mhausenblas; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now 07:29:59 Scribe: Raphael 07:30:13 Scribenick: raphael 07:30:27 Topic: 1. Quick summary of First day meeting 07:30:57 Raphael: we should have a picture representing the general structure of the media object, the H, H', K, D, etc. we talked about yesterday 07:31:27 ... Can we do such a representation valid for most of the formats? 07:31:33 Conrad: yes, for the streamable formats 07:31:44 ... I'm happy to take an action to draw such a schema 07:32:00 +Silvia 07:32:10 trackbot, status? 07:32:40 ACTION: Conrad to draw a representation of the general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats 07:32:41 Created ACTION-69 - Draw a representation of the general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats [on Conrad Parker - due 2009-04-24]. 07:34:29 Topic: 2. Implementation Reports 07:35:02 philipj has joined #mediafrag 07:35:09 a) Davy wants to present and demo a software that allows to slide media files independently of the codec format 07:35:29 b) Jack has some reporting to do on its implemntation 07:35:39 c) Davy wants to talk about RTSP implementation 07:35:50 d) Conrad wants to report on his experience in Annodex 07:40:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 07:40:55 Zakim, who is talking? 07:40:55 I am sorry, mhausenblas; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now 07:42:12 Zakim, mute me 07:42:12 Silvia should now be muted 07:42:52 Silvia, Davy will start with some slides that are coming 07:48:22 Davy going through a presentation 07:49:15 Slides at: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/meetings/2009-04-16-f2f_barcelona/Adaptation_logic_for_(server-side)_media_fragment_extraction.pdf 07:50:47 Davy: Slide 6, my PhD work is built on BSD content adaptation, using RDF 07:50:59 ... based on a model for media bitstreams encoded in OWL 07:52:03 ... Slide 7: Coding formats -> model for media bitstreams -> container formats 07:54:03 ... Slide 8: model for media bitsreams represented as a set of classes and properties 07:54:56 ... left part is the structure part, while the right part is more semantic 07:55:15 +Yves 07:55:20 ... Slide 9: shows the workflow 07:55:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 07:58:50 ... Slide 10: shows an example, two tracks (audio, video) represented in the intermediary model 07:59:07 ... assume there is a mapping between one particular codec format and this model 08:01:29 ... Track selection, means selection of MediaBitstreams, straightforward 08:03:26 ... Temporal selection, means selection of data blocks, based on their timestamps 08:03:44 ... problem for Spatial clipping? 08:03:56 Jack: it works only for scalable formats for Spatial Fragment 08:07:36 Davy: Slide 11: general architecture of the NinSuna platform 08:08:13 ... the retrieval service is not yet compatible with the media fragment syntax, but we could adapt it 08:10:31 ... Slide 12: two remarks, 1/ is the media needs to be 'ingested', i.e. the intermediary model needs to be instantiated and 2/ currently client decides the output format 08:10:42 Time for demo 08:16:30 jackjansen has joined #mediafrag 08:16:48 DON'T CLICK on the following link, now: 08:17:23 http://respighi.elis.ugent.be/NinSunaWeb 08:17:40 what is the link for? 08:18:08 silvia: that's davy's demo :) 08:18:40 note that the demo requires IE and Silverlight 08:18:50 ah, thanks 08:19:04 ... and VLC for the playback 08:24:26 raphael, no 08:24:41 we will put thata on another server 08:27:18 our demo can be found at http://multimedialab.elis.ugent.be/NinSuna/ 08:28:11 is there a screencast? 08:28:36 erik? 08:29:23 A screencast will be made by the IBBT guys next week 08:29:43 ok - those screenshots at the demo site are good, too 08:29:56 I'm uploading the videos on my web page 08:30:02 cofffee break, we are back in 15 min 08:30:35 -Silvia 08:30:39 s/http://respighi.elis.ugent.be/NinSunaWeb/NN 08:31:02 rrsagent, drfat minutes 08:31:02 I'm logging. I don't understand 'drfat minutes', mhausenblas. Try /msg RRSAgent help 08:31:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:31:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas 08:31:47 Yves: how do we remove the link above? 08:31:56 only manual edit possible? 08:31:58 Videos will be at http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/spool/video/ 08:32:11 s/http:\/\/respighi.elis.ugent.be\/NinSunaWeb/NN/g 08:32:18 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:32:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas 08:32:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html Yves 08:32:51 thanks 08:32:56 coffeeeeeeeeeeee 08:53:27 zakim, who is on the phone? 08:53:27 On the phone I see Mediafrag, Yves 08:53:51 guillaume has joined #mediafrag 08:54:03 Silvia, we will resume 08:54:21 Raphael: now we will listen to Jack 08:55:00 Jack: I took the Python URL library 08:55:55 ... I took this library and add some code of myself 08:56:06 ... for parsing the media fragments part 08:56:28 ... and here I discover all the issues discovered and reported, now fixed 08:56:50 ... and then the problems started, I tried first with the file URL (local resource) 08:56:58 guillaume has joined #mediafrag 08:57:19 ... problem is with synch on video/audio, should we do transcoding or not, etc. 08:57:52 ... my goal was to first address: file://myvideo.mp4#t=10,20 08:59:08 ... use ffmpeg for slicing the media 08:59:31 ... it's hard to use it, the API changes frequently, but the functionalities are very good 08:59:59 ... at the C level, it does what we want, but at the command level, it is meant to do transcoding 09:00:54 Guillaume: why not using the Python library G-streams, an API for ffmpeg? 09:01:26 URL lib for Python: http://docs.python.org/library/urllib.html 09:01:43 Gstreamer Python binding library : http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/modules/gst-python.html 09:02:20 and GStreamer itself http://www.gstreamer.net/ 09:02:59 Jack: I will have a working version in a few more days, but it will transcode 09:03:06 ... since this is what ffmepg does 09:04:50 +Silvia 09:05:50 ... my plan is thus rather going through C++ implementation, to attack ffmeph low layers, and have no transcoding 09:06:31 Zakim, mute me 09:06:31 Silvia should now be muted 09:08:03 Jack: I can share the code that does the parsing of the fragment 09:08:57 Anyone done or plans to do a client-side implementation of the parsing, etc., say in JavaScript 09:09:49 if not, I might have some resources (not myself, for sure, but a PhD of mine) who could do something based on jQuery 09:10:02 ACTION: Jack to commit in CVS (code directory) his python code doing the parsing on client side of the media fragment 09:10:03 Created ACTION-70 - Commit in CVS (code directory) his python code doing the parsing on client side of the media fragment [on Jack Jansen - due 2009-04-24]. 09:11:30 ACTION: Michael to investigate whether he could have an implementation in Javascript that does the client-side media fragments implementation 09:11:30 Created ACTION-71 - Investigate whether he could have an implementation in Javascript that does the client-side media fragments implementation [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-04-24]. 09:12:12 Conrad will now report on his implementation experience 09:13:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 09:13:26 Davy, first report on RTSP implementation 09:14:25 conrad has joined #mediafrag 09:16:28 zakim, unmute me 09:16:29 Silvia should no longer be muted 09:17:32 http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/Talks/2009-03-06-mozcamp/#(3) 09:20:12 zakim, mute me 09:20:12 Silvia should now be muted 09:23:35 Davy: RTSP implementation wiki page, http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/RTSP_implementation 09:24:27 conrad has joined #mediafrag 09:24:36 ... quick test, I have an implementation of the media fragment over the RTSP protocol 09:24:43 ... it works for track and temporal selection 09:25:18 ... first communication is the Describe, and the server answers which track is available, etc. 09:25:36 -Mediafrag 09:26:13 +Mediafrag 09:26:50 ... then for each track, we have a Setup 09:28:35 ... so we can have easily a track selection in RTSP 09:28:58 ... next command is the play command, where we can specify the temporal clipping 09:29:14 ... I don't remember which units is supported, but for sure npt and smpte 09:30:08 ... again, I have an implementation that parses the media fragment, and generates a PLAY command 09:32:52 ... i do not yet cover the whole grammar of the media fragment, so far just, t= and track= 09:32:58 ... implemented in C 09:33:10 ... I'm working on covering the whole grammar 09:33:27 Raphael: my (silly?) idea, embed VLC in a web page 09:33:55 zakim, unmute me 09:33:55 Silvia should no longer be muted 09:34:30 ... implement on client side, in the browser, the possibility to write down a media fragment URI (rtsp), use the code of Davy to generate the good Describe, Setup and Play commands 09:34:47 ... send that through VLC and get the results back, using the VLC plugin in the browser 09:35:01 Davy: should be doable 09:35:02 conrad has joined #mediafrag 09:35:24 Davy: my issue is with track selection, how do you know the name of the track 09:35:48 Jack: this is related to the issue raised by Silvia, http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/4 09:36:32 zakim, mute me 09:36:32 Silvia should now be muted 09:36:34 Jack: what I come accoss, is that often, you want not 1 track, but 2 tracks, or all tracks except one 09:36:45 ... not very convenient with our current scheme? 09:37:07 zakim, unmute me 09:37:07 Silvia should no longer be muted 09:37:50 zakim, mute me 09:37:50 Silvia should now be muted 09:37:57 Silvia: suggestion to add a comma separation, such as: #track='track1,track2,track3' 09:38:08 Jack: or event having a minus 09:39:06 zakim, unmute me 09:39:06 Silvia should no longer be muted 09:42:24 zakim, mute me 09:42:24 Silvia should now be muted 09:45:51 the naming of the tracks is up to the container format - some allow it, others don't 09:45:58 Scribenick: mhausenblas 09:46:10 for example QuickTime has chapter tracks that should be addressable in the given way with #track 09:46:16 ;) 09:46:18 franck has joined #mediafrag 09:46:43 Conrad has essentially said everything yesterday, now no new stuff 09:47:13 Jack: mentions that naming of tracks is decided by author and they create the URL 09:47:37 Conrad: mentions that with Accept-Language it should be possible to leave the track selection for languages to the server 09:47:48 raphael: conrad ok for you to implement it based on # rather than ? 09:48:43 conrad: will try to implement the hash part as well 09:49:28 raphael: agree, after the first step both # and ? have the same procedure 09:50:38 davy has joined #mediafrag 09:50:50 raphael: conrad would you implement the 'missing link' using the HTTP Link: header draft 09:51:13 conrad: yes, I like Yves idea using it, gonna try 09:52:07 raphael: Yves, silvia any question? 09:52:37 Topic: Test Cases 09:53:07 Scribenick: erik 09:54:11 yves: give a set of URI's and describe what should be expected 09:54:55 michael: rather have a set of simple cases to start with 09:55:20 parsing URI is more or less done (via the code I contributed), so it's more ohw a cient aprse que URI and act based on that 09:55:38 s/aprse/parse/ 09:55:41 s/ohw/how/ 09:55:52 michael: really stress on what the outcome is 09:56:20 michael: try to make it as automatic as possible 09:57:50 Jack: some temporal testing should at least be able to be done automatically (cfr. via using subtitles) 09:58:18 Jack: some manual video-inspection still has to be done 09:59:37 we could add time range validation to http://validator.annodex.org/ :-) 09:59:44 Jack: because we use half-open intervals 09:59:59 http://validator.annodex.org/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fia331343.us.archive.org%2F2%2Fitems%2Fnight_of_the_living_dead%2Fnight_of_the_living_dead.ogv%3Ft%3D10%2C20 10:01:17 michael (on blackboard) 10:02:58 on UA: 10:04:08 erik, I wanted to say "because we use half-open intervals we can also do some automatic testing on video/audio" 10:05:53 two test cases: URI resolving & Generate HTTP request (also see photo) 10:07:35 on Server: 10:07:57 from HTTP request to HTTP response 10:08:04 back on UA: 10:10:04 comment from jack: this is testing from User Expectation ... shouldn't we just test our Spec? 10:10:12 we need to test if it's feasible to get interoperable implementations 10:10:28 so we test the spec, but also (parts of) implementations as well 10:10:39 we won't test that implementations are 100% correct 10:10:58 we just test 100% coverage of the spec by interoperable implementations 10:12:09 michael: try the top-down approach (opposed to Jack's proposal of doing it bottom-up) 10:12:28 raphael: in the end both should come up with the same results though 10:13:11 (human in the loop) on UA 10:14:36 on the last step ("human in the loop") we should document the expected behaviour of a UA: that the first frame rendered is the first frame of the interval, that the video image is not broken (ie. the decoder has been primed with the previous i-frame) 10:17:10 TestCase 0: URI# 10:18:42 -> == URI == entire resource 10:20:48 Jack: at very least for every dimension we should define all the test cases where we get back the whole resource & also the ones where we get back an empty resource 10:20:49 philipj has joined #mediafrag 10:22:57 see http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/ for example 10:23:45 http://torrez.us/code/rdfa-js/tests/ and http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/ 10:29:52 -Silvia 10:34:11 davy has joined #mediafrag 10:34:20 Yves: there are tools online that check HTTP responses 10:35:10 I gree we just need to test that the headers we cared for are ok 10:35:16 s/gree/agree/ 10:36:41 michael: we should test our extra HTTP-headers for example ... not the complete HTTP stack 10:39:32 raphael: practically ... just test specific HTTP-headers with name & their possible values 10:41:42 Jack & Conrad: tests are most easily done on server 10:42:46 see http://wiki.csswg.org/test/harness 10:42:57 conrad: two test harnesses ... one for client & one for server 10:43:16 conrad & jack: can be both scripted 10:48:57 yes 10:49:28 I can be scripted, but the qeustion is: do I do what you expect..... 10:50:24 s/: can be both/: both test harnesses can be 10:51:20 ACTION: michael to setup template for test cases on wiki 10:51:21 Created ACTION-72 - Setup template for test cases on wiki [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-04-24]. 10:53:06 raphael: initial 10 test cases ... test case 0 & empty/entire resource & only temporal and npt-units 10:54:19 if we are testing a client, the base uri is the uri of the harness 10:54:41 if we are testing a server, we need to provide media and test fragment requests to that media 10:55:04 jack: why not only within test harness just the fragment (not the whole URI) to make it automatically testable 11:02:10 -Yves 11:02:10 erik: what about RTSP? 11:02:38 jack: we do end-to-end test for multiple protocols 11:03:59 raphael: how was the test suite handled within SMIL? 11:05:10 Jack: SMIL 2.0 test suite was xml & then parsed by bits of perl/python 11:06:23 then put into HTML forms, again some script processing & afterwards put into a document ... all testing was done manually :( 11:06:51 ... please, choose the right media to run the tests! 11:07:10 s/then put into/... then put into 11:07:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 11:26:10 -Mediafrag 11:26:12 IA_MFWG()3:00AM has ended 11:26:14 Attendees were Mediafrag, Silvia, Yves 12:39:06 Zakim has left #mediafrag 13:07:16 invite zakim #mediafrag 13:07:20 Zakim has joined #mediafrag 13:07:27 zakim, call mediafrag-f2f 13:07:27 sorry, raphael, I don't know what conference this is 13:07:37 trackbot, start telecon 13:07:40 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:07:42 Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG 13:07:42 ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()3:00AM scheduled to start 367 minutes ago 13:07:43 Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference 13:07:43 Date: 17 April 2009 13:07:45 zakim, call mediafrag-f2f 13:07:45 ok, raphael; the call is being made 13:07:46 IA_MFWG()3:00AM has now started 13:07:47 +Mediafrag 13:08:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 13:08:23 jackjansen has joined #mediafrag 13:12:33 scribenick: raphael 13:12:38 Wrapping up the test cases 13:12:58 Conrad: have a test case with a #foo fragment 13:13:00 guillaume has joined #mediafrag 13:13:19 ... on a non-media resource, if the behaviour is as expected 13:13:45 Dave: test whether the video.mp4#t=10 (as used by Google video) still works as expected 13:14:14 Michael: we should completement with more negative test cases 13:21:54 davy has joined #mediafrag 13:22:26 zakim, who is here? 13:22:26 On the phone I see Mediafrag 13:22:28 On IRC I see davy, guillaume, jackjansen, Zakim, conrad, erik, mhausenblas, raphael, dsinger, RRSAgent, Yves, trackbot 13:23:07 Topic: 4. Issues 13:23:14 http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/open 13:24:25 Issue 3: Michael, http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3 13:24:53 Michael: in RFC3986, the semantics of the fragment is per design not defined 13:25:22 ... together with the mime-type, one can learn what the semantics means 13:25:33 ... example, HTML, with its registration 13:25:41 ... but this is not true for most of the media types 13:27:22 ... to register at IANA and IETF the media fragment syntax 13:27:43 franck has joined #mediafrag 13:28:19 Jack: this is not possible, mp4 has already its post-hash syntax 13:29:01 ... we could write a cover letter, explaining who we are, and recommend to the mime-type owners what they should register 13:29:17 Michael: there are plenty, is this possible at all? 13:29:23 ... it will take too much time 13:31:22 Member only link: http://www.w3.org/2009/02/06-swcg-minutes.html#item03 13:33:17 proposal: media/fragment 13:33:39 media/fragment+video 13:33:59 media/fragment+audio 13:34:04 media/fragment+image 13:35:28 Conrad: it's a hack to use the Accept header for that 13:36:27 Conrad: we need to do a media specific documentation 13:36:54 Davy: problem, MPEG-21 has done that for MPEG resources, why they would change and adopt our scheme? 13:37:57 Conrad: we have no authority, we could just convince them with existing implementations, and deployment 13:38:15 Michael: I need to take my action seriously and come back with figures 13:38:25 ... how many mime type owners we need to talk with ? 13:38:35 ... how many mime-types will be affected? 13:39:21 Jack: looking at IANA database, it is very hard to guess who is the owner 13:39:54 Michael: my method, look at all the mime-type concerned (audio/*, video/*, image/*) and look for each whether they have a semantics for the hash 13:39:58 ... if NOT, no problem 13:40:15 ... if YES, then, identify the owner and evaluate the impact 13:40:58 ... evaluate impact meaning detecting clash 13:45:10 Conrad: we should talk to the AVT group in IETF 13:45:15 ... charter: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/avt-charter.html 13:45:25 ... group home page: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/avt/ 13:46:30 Conrad: I think Dave Singer is somehow associated to this group 13:47:03 Dave: can you confirm the asumption of Conrad just above? 13:48:26 Issue 4: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/4 13:49:14 I am looking for the assumption 13:51:58 Are you associated to some extent to the AVT group in IETF ? 13:52:10 Raphael: I feel the Issue 4 is mixing two things 13:52:24 a) the fact of selecting various tracks, or all tracks except 1 13:52:31 b) pre-selecting track names 13:52:45 Jack: for a) I think it should go to the version 2 of Media Fragments 13:53:03 ... because we will end up soon to a presentation language behind the hash 13:53:26 ... the problem is we cannot measure what amount of work it represents, nor to the people we need to talk too 13:54:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas 13:54:50 http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/ROE 13:55:10 Davy: why not doing like RTSP ... 13:55:16 Raphael: this is the ROE way 13:58:09 Jack: we assume there is a mechanism for which the client can have a description of the media items 13:58:50 +Yves 13:58:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 14:00:47 Conrad: clarification, the retrieval of the description is not in the media fragments, it is done before 14:06:52 http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/video/ 14:07:13 so it includes lots of RFCs (not easy to republish) 14:07:14 Michael: re issue 3, I mean it is always good to write the cover letter 14:07:42 ... just a matter of how the odds are that we can convince them, looking at the sheer number of potential clashes 14:08:12 ... where a clash is defined as a media type that defines frag semantics 14:08:26 Yves, hopefully, there will be 0 or 1 RFC impacted 14:08:37 ... we really care when there is a clash 14:08:40 ... and these semantics contradict with ours 14:08:42 indeed 14:11:27 Jack: no, the syntax will not change 14:11:55 ... we pass verbatim the track="value" to the server, and this is up to the server, capabilities of container formats 14:13:53 Conrad: I agree with you 14:14:13 ... I think what we can get is just no audio or no video 14:14:25 Jack: I dont know what get 'audio' means in the general case 14:21:13 ACTION: Conrad to change the phrasing of the issue 4 (just audio/video)? 14:21:13 Created ACTION-73 - Change the phrasing of the issue 4 (just audio/video)? [on Conrad Parker - due 2009-04-24]. 14:21:38 Issue 6: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/6 14:22:57 Jack: the issue comes during the implementation trial, where I happily do some transcoding 14:23:12 my point was... "it is fuzzy" 14:23:58 +q to ask for sanity check 14:23:59 I can point to... http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p6-cache-06#section-3.6 14:23:59 Raphael: yes, thus the action-62, http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/62 now associated 14:24:17 Warning: 214 Transformation applied 14:24:35 (note that is is also in rfc2616) 14:26:04 4.3.2 Receipt of Warning: 214 Transformation Applied 14:26:04 If the response includes a Warning: 214 Transformation Applied HTTP header, proxies must not apply further transformation. 14:26:15 Proposal from Yves: not really implemented, but we could use the warning header to warn the UA there has been some transcoding 14:26:22 oh proxies can do further transformations 14:26:23 ack me 14:26:23 mhausenblas, you wanted to ask for sanity check 14:26:39 it just warns the client that there was a transformation somewhere in the chain 14:27:28 i was quoting from http://www.w3.org/TR/ct-guidelines/ 14:27:45 Michael: is this within our scope? 14:27:55 ... would like to see WG saying: YES! 14:29:19 Jack: should we care, as a standardisation group, whether there is transcoding or not 14:35:22 for formats that do not encode presentation in-points, we could add an HTTP response header to inform the client of the presentation time at which to enable rendering 14:39:45