IRC log of ua on 2009-04-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:47:15 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:47:15 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-ua-irc
16:47:17 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:47:17 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:47:19 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:47:19 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
16:47:20 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:47:20 [trackbot]
Date: 16 April 2009
16:47:44 [sharper]
Agenda+ Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
16:47:44 [sharper]
Agenda+ Update scribing schedule
16:47:45 [sharper]
Agenda+ New Member
16:47:45 [sharper]
Agenda+ Generating UAAG comments
16:47:45 [sharper]
Agenda+ Survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090331/
16:47:45 [sharper]
Agenda+ WAI-ARIA last call review http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/
16:48:17 [sharper]
scribe: Harper_Simon
16:48:17 [sharper]
ScribeNick: sharper
16:48:29 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
16:48:57 [kford]
Hey Simon.
16:49:01 [sharper]
zakim, code?
16:49:01 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper
16:49:14 [sharper]
present+ Harper_Simon
16:49:26 [sharper]
present+ Ford_Kelly
16:49:47 [sharper]
regrets+ Hakkinen_Mark
16:50:18 [sharper]
chair: Allan_James, Ford_Kelly
16:50:37 [AllanJ]
AllanJ has joined #ua
16:50:40 [sharper]
meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon - 16 April 2009
16:50:49 [sharper]
present+ Allan_Jim
16:51:18 [sharper]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009AprJun/0017.html
16:51:42 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 1
16:51:42 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?" taken up [from sharper]
16:52:41 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:52:42 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:52:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-ua-minutes.html sharper
16:53:19 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:53:28 [sharper]
zakim, save agenda
16:53:34 [Zakim]
ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-ua-agenda.rdf
16:53:36 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:53:42 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:53:48 [kford]
zakim, microsoft is kford
16:53:48 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
16:54:16 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:54:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-ua-minutes.html sharper
16:57:12 [sharper]
zakim, code?
16:57:13 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper
16:58:46 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
16:58:52 [Zakim]
+allanj
16:59:03 [sharper]
present+ Spellman_Jeanne
16:59:15 [jeanne]
zakim, code?
16:59:15 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne
16:59:27 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:00:01 [Zakim]
+??P3
17:00:04 [sharper]
zakim, ??P3 is sharper
17:00:04 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:01:19 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.325.aaaa
17:01:37 [JR]
JR has joined #ua
17:01:49 [JR]
zakim, code?
17:01:49 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), JR
17:02:02 [sharper]
present+ Patch_Kim
17:02:20 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:02:22 [sharper]
present+ Richards_Jan
17:02:25 [AllanJ]
zakim, aaaa is really Kim_Patch
17:02:25 [Zakim]
+Kim_Patch; got it
17:02:43 [JR]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really JR
17:02:43 [Zakim]
+JR; got it
17:03:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.646.536.aabb
17:04:30 [AllanJ]
zakim, aabb is really Henny
17:04:30 [Zakim]
+Henny; got it
17:04:31 [sharper]
Present+ Swan_Henny
17:04:41 [sharper]
present+ Swan_Henny
17:04:52 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:04:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:05:16 [Henny]
Henny has joined #ua
17:05:48 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090414/
17:07:14 [AllanJ]
irc://irc.w3.org:6665/ua
17:08:56 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:09:10 [sharper]
zakim, close item 1
17:09:10 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?, closed
17:09:10 [sharper]
zakim, next item
17:09:11 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:09:13 [Zakim]
2. Update scribing schedule [from sharper]
17:09:14 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Update scribing schedule" taken up [from sharper]
17:09:19 [sharper]
zakim, close item 2
17:09:19 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Update scribing schedule, closed
17:09:19 [sharper]
zakim, next item
17:09:20 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:09:21 [Zakim]
3. New Member [from sharper]
17:09:23 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "New Member" taken up [from sharper]
17:09:45 [sharper]
JA: Welcome Kim Patch as a new Member
17:10:14 [sharper]
KP: Introductions and brief background
17:11:03 [sharper]
All: Introductions and professional backgrounds
17:11:36 [sharper]
zakim, list agenda
17:11:37 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
17:11:39 [Zakim]
3. New Member [from sharper]
17:11:40 [Zakim]
4. Generating UAAG comments [from sharper]
17:11:41 [Zakim]
5. Survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090331/ [from sharper]
17:11:42 [Zakim]
6. WAI-ARIA last call review http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/ [from sharper]
17:16:05 [sharper]
zakim, close item 3
17:16:05 [Zakim]
agendum 3, New Member, closed
17:16:05 [sharper]
zakim, next item
17:16:06 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:16:08 [Zakim]
4. Generating UAAG comments [from sharper]
17:16:09 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Generating UAAG comments" taken up [from sharper]
17:16:56 [sharper]
JA: New working draft went out for comments http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/UAAG20-20090121-ED/
17:17:14 [sharper]
JA: No Comments to date
17:17:24 [sharper]
HS: Blogged and Twittered already
17:17:37 [Henny]
http://www.iheni.com/uaag-needs-you/
17:17:42 [sharper]
JR: Will announce at Authoring tools event
17:17:55 [sharper]
SH: Will Announce at the W4A Conference Next Week
17:19:13 [AllanJ]
action: Jallan to write CG about review of UAAG20
17:19:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-179 - Write CG about review of UAAG20 [on Jim Allan - due 2009-04-23].
17:22:22 [sharper]
JA: If HS related to WASP - would anyone be interested there?
17:23:19 [sharper]
JA: Anymore thoughts on this?
17:23:33 [sharper]
JA: to KF will MicroSoft be commenting?
17:23:38 [sharper]
KF: yes
17:24:03 [sharper]
HS: Likewise Opera - many comments - but more questions.
17:24:21 [sharper]
zakim, close item 4
17:24:21 [Zakim]
agendum 4, Generating UAAG comments, closed
17:24:21 [sharper]
zakim, next item
17:24:22 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:24:23 [Zakim]
5. Survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090331/ [from sharper]
17:24:24 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090331/" taken up [from sharper]
17:24:57 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090415/
17:25:20 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090331/results
17:26:17 [sharper]
Focus on input configuration
17:26:36 [sharper]
Accept 2 / 1 More / 2 Neutral
17:27:18 [JR]
q+
17:27:29 [sharper]
MH: "Input configurations may be affected by author-specified bindings (e.g., through the accesskey attribute of HTML 4 [HTML4])."
17:27:29 [sharper]
Is this a statement of what has happened, and should continue, OR should we say that such is not a good thing?
17:27:29 [sharper]
"Input configurations should not be affected by author-specified bindings (e.g., through the accesskey attribute of HTML 4 [HTML4]) without first notifying the user."
17:27:55 [sharper]
JR: is in glossary, is a statement of fact that authors can set keyboard bindings
17:28:03 [JR]
ack jr
17:28:04 [sharper]
JA: true - any more thoughts?
17:28:20 [sharper]
KF: I agree with JR
17:28:43 [sharper]
KF: talk about this in some places
17:28:54 [sharper]
JA: Addressed elsewhere
17:29:10 [sharper]
JA: Still missing the negotiating keybindings
17:29:47 [sharper]
JA: Should we also mention JavaScript - or leave it as there may be many otherways to do this
17:30:13 [sharper]
KF: as it is, this is one illustration, could be many more.
17:30:27 [sharper]
KF + JA: so leave it this way
17:30:47 [sharper]
RESOLVED: as The set of "bindings" between user agent functionalities and user interface input mechanisms (e.g., menus, buttons, keyboard keys, and voice commands). The default input configuration is the set of bindings the user finds after installation of the software. Input configurations may be affected by author-specified bindings (e.g., through the accesskey attribute of HTML 4 [HTML4]).
17:31:07 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:31:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:31:46 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090415/results
17:31:47 [jeanne]
action: JS to update the glossary with the definition of input configuration
17:31:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-180 - Update the glossary with the definition of input configuration [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-23].
17:31:48 [sharper]
JA: Proposal - interactive element, non-interactive element
17:32:39 [sharper]
5 Accept / 1 More
17:33:05 [sharper]
JR: (More) Comment - leaves out non-interactive
17:33:24 [sharper]
JA: (Accept) Comment - should programmatic enablement be 'scripting'?
17:40:22 [AllanJ]
SH: if we use scripting, are we confining to a specific language
17:40:51 [JR]
Elements that by specification or programming have associated behaviors ....
17:41:43 [kford]
+1 to JR.
17:41:47 [sharper]
SH: That sounds good
17:41:52 [sharper]
+1 to JR
17:41:54 [AllanJ]
+1
17:42:09 [Henny]
+1
17:42:15 [jeanne]
+1
17:42:18 [KimPatch]
+1
17:46:56 [sharper]
JA: Junk the 'non-interactive element' part of the title
17:48:18 [sharper]
JA: any Objections?
17:48:24 [kford]
+1 to removal
17:48:27 [sharper]
JS: Good - clarifys
17:48:35 [sharper]
+1 to removal
17:49:32 [sharper]
RESOLVED: remove on-interactive element to make 'interactive element' NOT interactive element, non-interactive element
17:49:38 [sharper]
RESOLVED: to -- Elements that by specification or programming have associated behaviours to be executed or carried out as a result of user or programmatic interaction. (e.g., in HTML 4 [HTML4] the interactive elements include: links, image maps, form elements, elements with a value for the longdesc attribute, and elements with event handlers explicitly associated with them).
17:50:39 [sharper]
action: sharper to investigate / review interactive and enabled for contradictions.
17:50:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-181 - Investigate / review interactive and enabled for contradictions. [on Simon Harper - due 2009-04-23].
17:51:11 [sharper]
zakim, list agenda
17:51:11 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
17:51:12 [Zakim]
5. Survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090331/ [from sharper]
17:51:13 [Zakim]
6. WAI-ARIA last call review http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/ [from sharper]
17:51:23 [sharper]
zakim, close item 5
17:51:23 [Zakim]
agendum 5, Survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090331/, closed
17:51:23 [sharper]
zakim, next item
17:51:26 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:51:27 [Zakim]
6. WAI-ARIA last call review http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/ [from sharper]
17:51:28 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "WAI-ARIA last call review http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/" taken up [from sharper]
17:51:43 [AllanJ]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009AprJun/0020.html
17:55:45 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:55:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:56:06 [kford]
q+
17:56:37 [KimPatch]
q+
17:59:57 [sharper]
KP: many standards - will it jump to individual characters or as a word? Big mix of this - especially with speech I/F
18:00:32 [Zakim]
-JR
18:02:03 [AllanJ]
ack KimPatch
18:02:18 [AllanJ]
ack Kford
18:02:44 [sharper]
KF: dragon doesn't just use keyboard emulation, uses active accessibility to.
18:03:17 [AllanJ]
s/to. /too
18:03:22 [sharper]
KF: basic c&c can get to the elements, then keyboard as final option.
18:05:31 [sharper]
KF: concern that ARIA doesn't create a false sense of how easy it will be to use. More complicated structures induce and expectation of certain characteristics - which may not be the case.
18:06:28 [sharper]
KF: hopefully we'll have web ARIA tools kits and add 'their' version of the tree - expected behaviour is 'key' and not getting this behaviour may mean we make more barriers
18:06:31 [AllanJ]
KF: AT users have higher level of knowledge/expectations of keyboard interaction with UI elements than ARIA can/may provide and may confuse users
18:06:34 [kford]
ack kford
18:08:25 [sharper]
All: general ARIA conversation.
18:09:28 [sharper]
JA: Comments on the issue at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009AprJun/0020.html should be more formal
18:10:08 [sharper]
JS: will find correct way to do this - just need a more formal version - will answer JA tomorrow - deadline for comments tomorrow.
18:11:44 [sharper]
KF: these will be our (the groups) comments on ARIA - anything else members need to speak up ASAP
18:13:13 [sharper]
RESOLVED: These are our (the groups) comments on ARIA - and will be sent formally ASAP
18:14:02 [AllanJ]
SH: two items: web applications, and personalization and UA implementation
18:14:07 [sharper]
JA: Items for next week - We have been doing yeoman's work on the glossary. While the glossary
18:14:07 [sharper]
> is important, it is time (beginning next week) to review the open action
18:14:07 [sharper]
> items related to video and alternative content.
18:14:48 [sharper]
JS: UBIWeb Notes mentioned in WAI group - team would like us to comment so they can hear them.
18:14:51 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/NOTE-UWA-personalization-roadmap-20090409/
18:16:54 [AllanJ]
mobile best practices - http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/
18:17:35 [AllanJ]
Relationship between Mobile Web Best Practices (MWBP) and Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwb p-wcag-20090218/
18:18:10 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20090218/
18:23:33 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:23:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:24:15 [sharper]
zakim, close item 6
18:24:15 [Zakim]
agendum 6, WAI-ARIA last call review http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/, closed
18:24:17 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
18:24:25 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:24:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:25:33 [Zakim]
-kford
18:25:36 [Zakim]
-sharper
18:25:37 [Zakim]
-Henny
18:25:37 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
18:25:39 [Zakim]
-Kim_Patch
18:25:45 [Zakim]
-allanj
18:25:47 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:25:49 [Zakim]
Attendees were kford, allanj, Jeanne, sharper, +1.617.325.aaaa, Kim_Patch, JR, +1.646.536.aabb, Henny
18:25:55 [Henny]
Henny has left #ua
18:51:37 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
19:34:26 [AllanJ]
AllanJ has joined #ua
20:30:52 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua