IRC log of rif on 2009-04-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:49:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:49:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:49:17 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:49:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ChrisW
14:49:24 [ChrisW]
Chair: Chris Welty
14:49:33 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 7-Apr-2009
14:49:50 [ChrisW]
14:50:05 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has changed the topic to: 7 Apr RIF Telecon, Agenda
14:50:21 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:50:36 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up next item
14:50:36 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
14:58:38 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
15:00:12 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:00:19 [Zakim]
15:00:56 [Zakim]
15:01:09 [csma]
zakim, ??P9 is me
15:01:09 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
15:02:15 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:02:17 [mdean]
scribe: Mike Dean
15:02:21 [mdean]
scribenick: mdean
15:02:54 [Zakim]
15:03:03 [Zakim]
15:03:09 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:03:11 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:03:11 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
15:04:21 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike_Dean, csma, Stella_Mitchell, ChrisW
15:04:26 [Zakim]
15:04:29 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
15:05:12 [Zakim]
15:05:30 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:05:30 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:05:38 [ChrisW]
March 31 minutes:
15:05:51 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: approve minutes of last week
15:05:53 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:05:53 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
15:05:55 [Zakim]
15:06:45 [mdean]
csma: don't remember resolution that presentation syntax should map 1:1 to xml
15:07:08 [mdean]
Sandro: design principle rather than resolution - not crisp
15:07:26 [mdean]
... e.g. literals are 1:3 mapping
15:07:43 [Zakim]
15:08:32 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: We will use Presentation Syntax, with minor changes, with a mapping table to the XML syntax.
15:08:45 [mdean]
... from F2F7
15:09:11 [sandro]
so a mapping could be 3:12 or whatever -- a complex rule for going from a > b to a guard expression.
15:09:11 [mdean]
ChrisW: don't see 1:1 mentioned
15:09:36 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
15:09:37 [mdean]
csma: could say we prefer 1:1 rather than refer to resolution
15:09:56 [mdean]
Sandro: shouldn't change minutes, but clarify now
15:10:16 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: approve minutes of last week
15:10:16 [sandro]
I think in the meeting we were thinking it was more-or-less a WG decision to keep things 1:1, but obviously that's not really the case.
15:10:16 [Zakim]
15:10:40 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:10:40 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:10:53 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:10:53 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:10:58 [mdean]
ChrisW: added issue 91 (bounded quantifiers) to agenda
15:11:30 [mdean]
ChrisW: rdf:txt discussion on email list
15:11:35 [Gary_Hallmark]
Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
15:11:42 [csma]
15:11:44 [mdean]
Jos: issues addressed, but haven't followed all email
15:11:54 [mdean]
Jos: ready to review
15:12:07 [mdean]
Sandro: also reviewer - thinks its done
15:12:22 [mdean]
ChrisW: 1 or 2 minor things left, but shouldn't impact reviewability
15:12:33 [mdean]
ChrisW: last item on agenda
15:12:37 [ChrisW]
action: josb to review rdf:text
15:12:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-725 - Review rdf:text [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2009-04-14].
15:13:23 [Michael_Kifer]
Michael_Kifer has joined #rif
15:13:25 [mdean]
csma: OMG PRR beta 2 vote on-going - AB has approved, thinking about next steps
15:13:45 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:13:45 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ChrisW
15:13:49 [ChrisW]
15:13:51 [ChrisW]
ack c
15:13:54 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:13:54 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "F2F13" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:14:05 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:14:09 [Zakim]
+ +03539149aaaa
15:14:23 [mdean]
Sandro: ChrisW still hasn't registered
15:14:35 [mdean]
Sandro: 11 registered - usual suspects
15:15:07 [mdean]
Sandro: hope to buy lunches and snacks
15:15:15 [josb]
sorry, our admin will not allow us to spend money, even if we have do it :(
15:15:29 [josb]
s/have do/do have/
15:15:39 [Zakim]
15:16:07 [sandro]
trackbot, help
15:16:07 [trackbot]
See for help
15:16:14 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up next item
15:16:14 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Action Review" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:16:15 [sandro]
trackbot, status?
15:17:58 [josb]
15:19:22 [mdean]
Dave: working on syntax checker
15:20:40 [DaveReynolds]
Just to clarify the minutes - Dave working on applying RIF PS syntax checker to vet OWL 2 RL ruleset
15:24:31 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up next item
15:24:31 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Issue-67" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:24:56 [mdean]
ChrisW: string less-than issue
15:25:04 [mdean]
... broken into 2 issues
15:25:15 [mdean]
... no specific DTB predicates
15:25:22 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Drop string-<, string->, string-<=, string->= from DTB, closing ISSUE-67.
15:25:22 [mdean]
... consensus last week
15:26:03 [Zakim]
15:26:21 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
15:26:28 [Zakim]
15:26:43 [AdrianP]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:26:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike_Dean, csma, Stella_Mitchell, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, Sandro, Gary, Harold, AxelPolleres, Michael_Kifer, [IPcaller]
15:26:44 [sandro]
sandro: the idea is that these are just syntactic sugar for string-compare + numeric-less-than.
15:26:49 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:26:49 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:26:55 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Drop string-<, string->, string-<=, string->= from DTB, closing ISSUE-67.
15:27:00 [AdrianP]
Zakim IPcaller is me
15:27:00 [ChrisW]
15:27:04 [josb]
no protest
15:27:05 [DaveReynolds]
15:27:14 [AxelPolleres]
abstain (DERI)
15:27:14 [sandro]
0 I'm not thrilled, but okay....
15:27:19 [mdean]
15:27:19 [josb]
15:27:26 [Michael_Kifer]
15:27:27 [Harold]
15:27:33 [AdrianP]
15:27:33 [Zakim]
15:27:38 [AdrianP]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
15:27:39 [Zakim]
+AdrianP; got it
15:27:43 [Gary]
15:27:44 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Drop string-<, string->, string-<=, string->= from DTB, closing ISSUE-67.
15:27:48 [csma]
15:28:05 [ChrisW]
action: axel to remove string <>= from DTB
15:28:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-726 - Remove string <>= from DTB [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-04-14].
15:28:17 [ChrisW]
action: chris to close issue-67
15:28:17 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-727 - Close issue-67 [on Christopher Welty - due 2009-04-14].
15:28:21 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, pointer
15:28:21 [RRSAgent]
15:28:29 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:28:29 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Issue-93" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:29:11 [mdean]
ChrisW: datatype IRIs issue, includes IRIs in general (import, prefix, annotations, datatype identifiers)
15:30:41 [mdean]
Jos: counterintuitive that 2 IRIs denote the same datatype
15:30:54 [AxelPolleres]
15:31:00 [mdean]
Sandro: don't allow equality with datatype IRIs?
15:31:02 [josb]
15:31:15 [mdean]
... is always false
15:31:26 [josb]
15:31:35 [josb]
15:31:39 [mdean]
... is true
15:31:40 [AxelPolleres]
+1 to that being inconsistent and xsd:int=a being fine.
15:31:45 [ChrisW]
ack a
15:32:33 [mdean]
MKifer: RIF IRIs should be uninterpreted
15:32:40 [mdean]
... use anyURI
15:32:40 [josb]
15:33:21 [mdean]
ChrisW: plain literals refer to themselves
15:33:34 [mdean]
s/RIF IRIs/rif:iri's/
15:33:47 [mdean]
Jos: can live with Michael's solution
15:34:12 [josb]
15:34:28 [josb]
15:35:04 [sandro]
15:35:04 [mdean]
josb: different syntax for denoting datatypes
15:35:08 [AxelPolleres]
we don'
15:35:10 [josb]
15:35:14 [csma]
15:35:32 [AxelPolleres]
t supporte anyURI at this point, but it could be added to DTB of course.
15:36:02 [mdean]
Sandro: concerned about equality - nice for users, but hard to implement as translation
15:36:27 [DaveReynolds]
15:36:32 [ChrisW]
ack s
15:36:34 [AxelPolleres]
15:36:36 [csma]
ack csma
15:36:49 [sandro]
sandro: i had been thinking the mapping between xsd and native types was done in the translator, not in the rule engine.
15:37:21 [csma]
A rif:iri constant must be interpreted as a reference to one and the same object regardless of the context in which that constant occurs
15:37:25 [mdean]
csma: DTB says that rif:iri constant must be interpreted as 1 object regardless of context
15:37:42 [mdean]
Jos: can be mapped to different things in different interpretations
15:38:18 [mdean]
Jos: context is where it occurs - in formula - still same interpretation (in BLD document)
15:39:03 [csma]
Constants in this symbol space are intended to be used in a way similar to RDF resources
15:39:32 [mdean]
csma: Make this sentence stronger?
15:40:11 [mdean]
csma: Make phrases more formal?
15:40:27 [mdean]
Jos: already formal in DTB document
15:40:37 [ChrisW]
isLiteralOfType("ab"^^xsd:string, a)
15:40:37 [ChrisW]
15:40:37 [ChrisW]
a = "http://....string"^^xsd:anyURI
15:41:12 [sandro]
15:41:48 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:41:48 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:41:49 [ChrisW]
ack dave
15:42:00 [DaveReynolds]
xsd:int [ rdfs:subClassOf -> xsd:integer ]
15:42:15 [mdean]
Dave: in RDFS, want to be able to make statements about datatypes
15:42:28 [sandro]
it seems like a subproperty to me, not a subclass. :-)
15:43:12 [AxelPolleres]
+1 to be able to talk about DTs.
15:43:24 [mdean]
Jos: nice to be able to combine RIF rules with RDF graphs
15:44:05 [ChrisW]
15:44:08 [ChrisW]
15:44:21 [sandro]
The test case I'm concerned about is p("a"^^<a>) and <a>=xs:string |= p("a")
15:44:29 [ChrisW]
1 # xsd:int
15:44:39 [josb]
sandro: this entailment does not hold
15:44:52 [AxelPolleres]
allows to write datatype entailment rules (in a dialect allowing exiustentials in heads) it seems, e.g. rdfD1
15:45:19 [AxelPolleres]
15:46:06 [DaveReynolds]
"1"^^xsd:int # xsd:int
15:46:07 [josb]
xsd:string=a |=oftype("b",a)
15:46:26 [josb]
15:47:09 [mdean]
Josb: ^^ not evaluated
15:47:13 [sandro]
sandro: so it's evaluated when you're doing oftype, but not when you're doing ^^.
15:47:15 [sandro]
jos: right.,
15:47:24 [josb]
xsd:string=a, "a"^^<a> |= oftype("a"^^<a>, xsd:string)
15:48:08 [josb]
replace in example xsd:string w "http....string"^^anyURI
15:48:16 [josb]
and the entailment still holds
15:49:28 [DaveReynolds]
Right, I was talking about SWC
15:49:44 [AxelPolleres]
rdfD1 could be emulated with skolemization in RIF BLD as: sk(?D) rdf:type ?D :- ofType(?X, ?D) ?D rd:type rdfs:Datatype.
15:50:13 [mdean]
ChrisW: what would we change to make this valid?
15:51:07 [AxelPolleres]
15:51:49 [sandro]
sandro: sigh, yeah, I guess it's already accepted that datatypes are treated as classes (of their value space). [[ That's so broken. it means xs:hexBinary == xs:base64Binary. Sure, they are the same "class", but they are different "properties. ]]
15:54:49 [DaveReynolds]
[[Sandro - having the same class extension does not mean xs:hexBinary == xsd:base64Binary, just means sameClassAs, can be different individuals and different property extensions. I claim it is not broken.]]
15:55:34 [Zakim]
15:56:29 [ChrisW]
xsd:int [ rdfs:subClassOf -> xsd:integer ]
15:59:04 [ChrisW]
15:59:48 [ChrisW]
"1"^^xsd:int [ rdfs:type -> xsd:integer ]
16:00:07 [ChrisW]
16:00:50 [ChrisW]
16:00:57 [ChrisW]
ack ax
16:01:12 [mdean]
16:01:23 [mdean]
Axel: makes sense
16:01:57 [Zakim]
16:02:02 [mdean]
... oftype allows writing entailment rules in RIF
16:02:11 [AdrianP]
Zakim, ??P4 is me
16:02:11 [Zakim]
+AdrianP; got it
16:02:21 [AxelPolleres]
16:02:31 [ChrisW]
a # ?x :- isLiteralOfType(a,?x)
16:02:44 [AxelPolleres]
rdfD1 could be emulated with skolemization in RIF BLD as: sk(?D) rdf:type ?D :- ofType(?X, ?D) ?D rd:type rdfs:Datatype.
16:02:44 [ChrisW]
(w/ D-Entailment)
16:03:32 [josb]
16:04:08 [ChrisW]
ack jos
16:05:09 [mdean]
Axel: capture finite set of inference rules in RIF
16:05:20 [mdean]
Michael: poor practice
16:05:52 [Michael_Kifer]
16:06:42 [mdean]
ChrisW: lots of things that BLD can't do
16:06:51 [mdean]
... understand 2 sides now
16:07:02 [mdean]
ChrisW: straw poll
16:07:41 [csma]
16:07:42 [sandro]
16:07:50 [Zakim]
16:08:31 [ChrisW]
Straw: +1: Use "anyURI" in isLiteralOfType, -1: define datatype URIs to denote themselves
16:08:40 [josb]
16:08:48 [AdrianP]
16:08:49 [AxelPolleres]
-1 (I want RIF BLD to express at least such Horn expressible inference rules that need datatype extraction over RDF, using anyURI would prevent this.)
16:08:52 [ChrisW]
16:08:56 [DaveReynolds]
16:08:56 [sandro]
16:09:03 [Zakim]
16:09:14 [mdean]
16:09:27 [Gary]
16:09:34 [Michael_Kifer]
16:10:09 [mdean]
Michael: object, because it would require quite a few changes just to accommodate 1 builtin
16:10:19 [mdean]
ChrisW: problem still exists
16:11:07 [mdean]
Michael: rif:iri's are by definition supposed to be uninterpreted - could introduce another symbol space
16:11:12 [mdean]
Jos: can define it differently
16:11:27 [mdean]
Michael: notion of datatype isn't extensible
16:11:27 [AxelPolleres]
The built-in is anyways already an "amputed" version of SPARQL's datatype()-built-in ... if we go with anyURI, it is making even less sense to me.
16:12:15 [mdean]
Jos: hadn't thought of extensibility issue - nasty
16:13:00 [mdean]
... get rid of isLiteralOfType based on new information?
16:13:06 [ChrisW]
16:13:38 [mdean]
... different ways of referring to datatype inelegant
16:14:14 [mdean]
Michael: RIF pure logic, RDF evolving syntax
16:14:46 [mdean]
ChrisW: want to move on, but not lose state
16:14:52 [ChrisW]
action: michael to summarize objection to iris denoting themselves in email
16:14:52 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - michael
16:14:52 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. msintek, mkifer, merdmann)
16:14:59 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up next item
16:14:59 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "Issue-95" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:15:24 [mdean]
ChrisW: list datatype issue
16:15:42 [ChrisW]
action: mkifer to summarize objection to iris denoting themselves in email
16:15:42 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-728 - Summarize objection to iris denoting themselves in email [on Michael Kifer - due 2009-04-14].
16:15:47 [AxelPolleres]
the issue is: fixin the semantics on new datatypes in new rule-sets may hamper "forward"-compatibility (not sure whether that is the right term here) w.r.t. datasets not having those additional datatypes in mind, yes?
16:16:10 [mdean]
ChrisW: defer lists due to time
16:16:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
16:16:18 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:16:19 [Zakim]
9. Issue-95 [from ChrisW]
16:16:19 [Zakim]
10. Issue-94 [from ChrisW]
16:16:21 [Zakim]
11. rdf:text [from ChrisW]
16:16:21 [Zakim]
12. AOB [from ChrisW]
16:16:30 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 7
16:16:30 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Issue-91" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:16:55 [mdean]
ChrisW: bounded quantifiers
16:17:02 [AxelPolleres]
hmmm, asking myself whether the behaviour I would want could be "hidden" better in the semantics definition of isOfDatatype alone, without affecting datatypes.
16:17:08 [mdean]
... weak support - no objections to dropping requirement
16:17:09 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: CORE will not have bounded quantifiers, closing ISSUE-91.
16:17:21 [sandro]
16:17:29 [sandro]
or maybe +0
16:17:32 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:17:32 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
16:17:35 [mdean]
no objections
16:17:36 [josb]
16:17:41 [DaveReynolds]
16:17:43 [Michael_Kifer]
16:17:43 [mdean]
16:17:43 [Gary]
16:17:44 [Harold]
16:17:46 [sandro]
+0 they would have been nice, but it's not practical right now.
16:17:48 [AdrianP]
16:18:29 [ChrisW]
16:18:45 [sandro]
some future Core (Core 2.0) might have it, but this Core wont have it.... We don't have time.
16:18:55 [mdean]
csma: considered deferring without closing
16:18:59 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: CORE will not have bounded quantifiers, closing ISSUE-91.
16:19:12 [ChrisW]
action: chris to close issue-91
16:19:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-729 - Close issue-91 [on Christopher Welty - due 2009-04-14].
16:19:46 [mdean]
Sandro: consider starting wish list for future WG
16:19:51 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 10
16:19:51 [Zakim]
agendum 10. "Issue-94" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:20:03 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 11
16:20:03 [Zakim]
agendum 11. "rdf:text" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:20:48 [mdean]
Axel: Boris and Axel tried to resolve all open issues
16:20:59 [mdean]
... only 3 at risk notes left in document
16:21:10 [ChrisW]
Feature At Risk #1: Usage of rtfn:
16:21:23 [ChrisW]
Feature At Risk #2: rtfn:compare
16:21:33 [ChrisW]
Feature At Risk #3: rtfn:length
16:21:56 [mdean]
... can be emulated using existing functions
16:21:58 [sandro]
q+ to ask about namespace thing
16:22:10 [josb]
16:22:24 [ChrisW]
ack sandro
16:22:24 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to ask about namespace thing
16:22:41 [mdean]
Sandro: what are different options?
16:22:42 [ChrisW]
rdf:text editing: I see lots of undefined characters
16:23:01 [mdean]
Axel: don't see other options at this point
16:23:02 [josb]
16:23:33 [mdean]
Sandro: prefer removing At Risk #1
16:23:57 [josb]
I would support removing them as well
16:23:58 [mdean]
Sandro: willing to remove compare and length functions - XPath 3.0 can add them later
16:24:10 [mdean]
ChrisW: would at least document that
16:24:25 [josb]
I actually thought there was a consensus about removing them on the rdf-text list
16:24:31 [mdean]
Sandro: obvious for XPath 3
16:25:06 [mdean]
Axel: no telecon where we formally agreed
16:25:20 [mdean]
... can resolve here from RIF side
16:25:36 [mdean]
Sandro: OWL doesn't care about builtins
16:25:43 [josb]
I would support this
16:26:16 [mdean]
Axel: fine to drop compare and length if decided here
16:26:40 [josb]
or ever...
16:27:34 [mdean]
Sandro: keep at risk 2 and 3 and see if we get any feedback
16:27:43 [sandro]
sandro: let's keep length & compare as At Risk, for now.
16:27:51 [mdean]
Axel: agreed
16:28:13 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Keep rtfn:compare and rtfn:length as AT RISK
16:28:19 [sandro]
16:28:20 [AxelPolleres]
16:28:21 [ChrisW]
16:28:25 [josb]
16:28:27 [Michael_Kifer]
16:28:27 [Harold]
16:28:28 [AdrianP]
16:28:29 [DaveReynolds]
16:28:32 [mdean]
16:28:38 [sandro]
RESOLVED: Keep rtfn:compare and rtfn:length as AT RISK
16:29:00 [sandro]
16:29:25 [mdean]
Sandro: need Director approval for namespace - shouldn't be a problem
16:29:43 [csma]
16:29:49 [ChrisW]
action: axel to remove at risk comment on rtfn: namespace and check with OWL WG
16:29:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-730 - Remove at risk comment on rtfn: namespace and check with OWL WG [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-04-14].
16:30:00 [csma]
ack csma
16:30:16 [sandro]
16:30:16 [trackbot]
ISSUE-86 -- rdf:text implies change to SPARQL -- OPEN
16:30:16 [trackbot]
16:30:19 [sandro]
16:30:19 [trackbot]
ISSUE-87 -- rdf:text document reinterprets xs:string as a subtype of rdf:text -- OPEN
16:30:19 [trackbot]
16:30:23 [mdean]
csma: impact on issues 86 and 87?
16:30:56 [sandro]
+1 go 5 more minutes
16:30:59 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: extend for 5 mins
16:31:10 [josb]
16:31:32 [csma]
16:31:43 [josb]
16:31:48 [csma]
16:32:15 [Zakim]
16:32:18 [mdean]
Axel: asked SPARQL WG for review
16:32:44 [mdean]
Sandro: no change required for SPARQL
16:32:44 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-86 and ISSUE-87, addressed by the current text of
16:32:52 [josb]
16:32:57 [AxelPolleres]
16:33:14 [mdean]
ChrisW: try to close 86 and 87 next week
16:33:23 [mdean]
Sandro: no telecon next week
16:33:25 [sandro]
NO TELECON NEXT WEEK. F2F13 the next day.
16:33:28 [ChrisW]
actioN: chris to send message about no telecon next week
16:33:28 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-731 - Send message about no telecon next week [on Christopher Welty - due 2009-04-14].
16:33:51 [mdean]
csma: put on agenda for F2F
16:34:10 [Zakim]
16:34:10 [mdean]
ChrisW: no other business
16:34:13 [ChrisW]
16:34:14 [Zakim]
16:34:15 [Zakim]
16:34:16 [Zakim]
16:34:18 [Zakim]
16:34:23 [Zakim]
16:34:27 [Zakim]
16:34:35 [ChrisW]
Regrets: LeoraMorgenstern
16:34:40 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
16:34:40 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Dean, csma, Stella_Mitchell, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, josb, Sandro, Gary, Harold, +03539149aaaa, AxelPolleres, Michael_Kifer, AdrianP
16:34:46 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:34:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ChrisW
16:35:11 [Zakim]
16:42:37 [Zakim]
16:42:38 [Zakim]
16:42:39 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:42:40 [Zakim]
Attendees were Mike_Dean, csma, Stella_Mitchell, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, josb, Sandro, Gary, Harold, +03539149aaaa, AxelPolleres, Michael_Kifer, AdrianP
17:00:10 [csma]
csma has left #rif