IRC log of au on 2009-04-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:48:55 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
19:48:55 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-irc
19:48:57 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:48:57 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #au
19:48:59 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
19:48:59 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 49 minutes ago
19:49:00 [trackbot]
Meeting: Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
19:49:00 [trackbot]
Date: 06 April 2009
19:49:34 [JR]
JR has joined #au
19:51:48 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:51:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-minutes.html jeanne
19:53:55 [JR]
Regrets: Tim B, Robert S, Sueann N.
19:54:05 [JR]
Chair: Jutta Treviranus
19:57:08 [JR]
zakim, where am I?
19:57:08 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, JR.
19:57:53 [JR]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0000.html
19:58:08 [AnnM]
AnnM has joined #au
19:59:09 [AnnM]
hi. just dialling in.
19:59:11 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
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+ +0208123aaaa
20:01:15 [Zakim]
+??P9
20:01:28 [jeanne]
zakim, code?
20:01:28 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2894 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne
20:01:31 [JR]
zakim, ??P9 is really JR
20:01:31 [Zakim]
+JR; got it
20:01:37 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
20:01:51 [JR]
zakim, aaaa is really AnnM
20:01:51 [Zakim]
+AnnM; got it
20:02:01 [Andrew]
Andrew has joined #au
20:02:51 [Greg]
Greg has joined #au
20:06:28 [Greg]
would someone mind providing the dial in info please. Outlook is not cooperating
20:07:00 [Greg]
I will then tatto it to the back of my hand
20:07:01 [Greg]
thnks
20:07:38 [Zakim]
+??P11
20:08:06 [JR]
zakim, ??P11 is really JuttaT
20:08:06 [Zakim]
+JuttaT; got it
20:08:19 [Zakim]
+Greg_Pisocky
20:09:27 [JR]
Topic: Discuss attempt at WAI concensus on Alt in HTML5:
20:09:34 [jeanne]
scribe: jeanne
20:09:36 [JR]
Scribe: jeanne
20:09:45 [JR]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-cg/2009JanMar/att-0254/html-alt-resolution.html
20:12:11 [jeanne]
JR: An ad-hoc group in WAI has been developing a proposal for alt in HTML5 for the HTML5 WG. The link is to the consensus reached by the ad-hoc group, they are looking for feedback and consensus from the broader WAI groups
20:13:47 [jeanne]
JR: It begins with the resolutions. [JR reads from link above]
20:19:28 [jeanne]
JT: This is the compromise solution where we are raising awareness of the need to use alternative descriptions, but not requiring it for validity.
20:20:37 [jeanne]
JR: With ARIA labeledby they can use it, and not have it be invalid, as HTML4.
20:21:29 [jeanne]
JR: Plus people are incorrectly using alt="" just to get validity. Adding role="presentation" allows the User agent to get more information
20:22:50 [jeanne]
AM: My concern is that the browser support and AT support won't keep up with it.
20:25:33 [jeanne]
JR: Any objections outside that one area of concern? [no objections]
20:25:39 [JR]
Topic: 2. ARIA review
20:25:39 [jeanne]
topic: ARIA review
20:26:24 [JR]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0002.html
20:28:33 [JR]
JT: Is trying to decide whether to give comments now or wait for next version req setting
20:28:54 [JR]
JR: Right maybe better to just let v1.0 go ahead
20:30:38 [JR]
JR: "8.3.1. Authoring Tools" is a little thin - maybe might mention
20:30:39 [JR]
supporting toolkits with built-in ARIA support?
20:31:03 [JR]
Glossary synchro with ATAG is mixed.
20:31:50 [JR]
Topic: 3. External comments on public draft:
20:32:34 [JR]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0004.html
20:33:09 [Greg]
Comments on the Draft
20:34:58 [Greg]
Action: Change will not to may not in In the Introduction section, second paragraph after the first two
20:34:58 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Change
20:35:00 [Greg]
> bullets: "As ATAG 2.0 guides authors in complying to WCAG 2.0, similar
20:35:02 [Greg]
> to the constraints of WCAG 2.0, even content that conforms at the
20:35:03 [Greg]
> highest level (AAA) will not be accessible to individuals with all
20:35:05 [Greg]
> types, degrees, or combinations of disability …" --- "will not be
20:35:06 [Greg]
> accessible" is a very strong statement provided that "individuals
20:35:08 [Greg]
> with all types, degrees, or combinations of disability" is something
20:35:10 [Greg]
> hard to be precisely measured. I suggest you say "may not be fully accessible"
20:35:11 [Greg]
> or something along these lines.
20:35:34 [JR]
Action: JS - Change "will not be accessible" to "may not"
20:35:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-134 - - Change \"will not be accessible\" to \"may not\" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-13].
20:37:25 [JR]
Action: JS - in Auth tool defn "(e.g., a collaborative tool that archives the conversation as Web content)."
20:37:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-135 - - in Auth tool defn \"(e.g., a collaborative tool that archives the conversation as Web content).\" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-13].
20:38:52 [JR]
Action JS: "wide range" to "varying range"
20:38:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-136 - \"wide range\" to \"varying range\" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-13].
20:40:26 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #au
20:41:04 [jeanne]
[no disagreement]
20:42:05 [jeanne]
"tools should promote discoverability of tools" too confusing.
20:42:24 [jeanne]
JR: Recommend simplifying it to:
20:42:48 [JR]
"Authoring tools should facilitate awareness and proper use of features that support accessible authoring practices, with a goal of incorporating accessibility into common practice."
20:42:57 [JR]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0004.html
20:43:21 [JR]
Action JS: "Authoring tools should facilitate awareness and proper use of features that support accessible authoring practices, with a goal of incorporating accessibility into common practice."
20:43:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-137 - \"Authoring tools should facilitate awareness and proper use of features that support accessible authoring practices, with a goal of incorporating accessibility into common practice.\" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-13].
20:43:23 [jeanne]
[agreement on the simplification]
20:44:16 [JR]
Organization of the ATAG 2.0 Document - Part B: : 3rd bullet
20:44:44 [JR]
Under each guideline there are success criteria that describe specifically what must be achieved in order to conform. They are similar to the "checkpoints" in ATAG 1.0. Each success criterion is written as a statement that will be either true or false when a specific authoring tool is tested against it. While all of the ATAG 2.0 success criteria are written to be testable and some test...
20:44:46 [JR]
...automation may be possible, human testing will usually be required. In order to meet the needs of different groups and different situations, three levels of conformance are defined: A (lowest), AA, and AAA (highest).
20:45:42 [JR]
Notes:
20:45:44 [JR]
- Any success criteria that are judged not applicable to a particular
20:45:45 [JR]
authoring tool are treated as satisfied for conformance purposes, as
20:45:47 [JR]
long as a rationale is provided.
20:45:48 [JR]
- What are called "success criteria" in ATAG 2.0 correspond with what
20:45:50 [JR]
were referred to as "checkpoints" in ATAG 1.0.
20:47:43 [JR]
Action JS: Remove "They are similar to the "checkpoints" in ATAG 1.0."
20:47:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-138 - Remove \"They are similar to the \"checkpoints\" in ATAG 1.0.\" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-13].
20:47:49 [jeanne]
JT: The document is confusing enough, I don't think we should add ot the confusion.
20:51:08 [jeanne]
Issue: Reorganizing the Conformance Levels - see email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0004.html
20:51:08 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-175 - Reorganizing the Conformance Levels - see email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0004.html ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/issues/175/edit .
20:51:45 [jeanne]
Issue: Impact of conformance of the three levels, A, AA, AAA. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0004.html
20:51:45 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-176 - Impact of conformance of the three levels, A, AA, AAA. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009AprJun/0004.html ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/tracker/issues/176/edit .
20:53:02 [jeanne]
JR: Perhaps we want to change "developer" to "tool developer" to make it less confusing.
20:53:34 [jeanne]
... In Anna's comment on the Part A scope.
20:54:08 [jeanne]
s/... In /... In response to
20:54:55 [jeanne]
JT: If every instance of developer is linked to the definition that defines it as a tool developer.
20:55:32 [jeanne]
AM: But "developer" is such a general term that people know, they would probably not look at the definition
20:55:53 [jeanne]
JR: It is used 16 times, let's change them to "authoring tool developer"
20:56:11 [jeanne]
action: JS to globally change "developer" to "authoring tool developer"
20:56:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-139 - Globally change \"developer\" to \"authoring tool developer\" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-04-13].
20:56:26 [jeanne]
topic: next meeting
20:56:56 [jeanne]
JR: No meeting next week. The following meeting, Jan and Tim will present their proposal. We have the rest of these comments to do.
20:58:08 [Zakim]
-JR
20:58:10 [Zakim]
-Greg_Pisocky
20:58:10 [Zakim]
-AnnM
20:58:17 [jeanne]
... we may have missed the ARIA deadline, so anyone with ARIA thoughts related to authoring tool, send them to the list.
20:58:21 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
20:58:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-minutes.html JR
20:58:28 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs public
20:58:48 [jeanne]
zakim, bye
20:58:49 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +0208123aaaa, JR, Jeanne, AnnM, JuttaT, Greg_Pisocky
20:58:49 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
20:58:52 [JR]
Zakim, bye
20:58:56 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-actions.rdf :
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Change will not to may not in In the Introduction section, second paragraph after the first two [1]
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-irc#T20-34-58
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS - Change "will not be accessible" to "may not" [2]
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-irc#T20-35-34
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS - in Auth tool defn "(e.g., a collaborative tool that archives the conversation as Web content)." [3]
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-irc#T20-37-25
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to "wide range" to "varying range" [4]
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-irc#T20-38-52
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to "Authoring tools should facilitate awareness and proper use of features that support accessible authoring practices, with a goal of incorporating accessibility into common practice." [5]
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-irc#T20-43-21
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to Remove "They are similar to the "checkpoints" in ATAG 1.0." [6]
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-irc#T20-47-43
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to globally change "developer" to "authoring tool developer" [7]
20:58:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/06-au-irc#T20-56-11
20:59:27 [jeanne]
present+ Jan_Richards, Jeanne_Spellman, Ann_McMeekin, Jutta, Greg