09:01:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
09:01:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc
09:01:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
09:01:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediafrag
09:01:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
09:01:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start now
09:01:18 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
09:01:18 <trackbot> Date: 01 April 2009
09:01:47 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Mar/0089.html
09:01:53 <raphael> Chair: Erik, Raphael
09:02:01 <raphael> Regrets: Michael, Yves, Conrad
09:02:01 <jackjansen> jackjansen has joined #mediafrag
09:02:19 <jackjansen> zakim, code?
09:02:19 <Zakim> the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jackjansen
09:02:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:02:48 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
09:02:55 <Zakim> +raphael
09:03:14 <Zakim> +??P1
09:03:22 <jackjansen> zakim, ??P1 is me
09:03:22 <Zakim> +jackjansen; got it
09:04:32 <Zakim> + +0329331aaaa
09:05:00 <raphael> zakim, aaaa is Davy
09:05:00 <Zakim> +Davy; got it
09:06:57 <Zakim> -jackjansen
09:07:26 <Zakim> +??P1
09:07:39 <jackjansen> zakim, ??P1 is me
09:07:39 <Zakim> +jackjansen; got it
09:08:55 <raphael> zakim, Davy is Davy_Erik
09:08:55 <Zakim> +Davy_Erik; got it
09:09:53 <raphael> Present: Erik, Davy, Jack, Raphael
09:10:17 <raphael> Scribe: Raphael
09:10:30 <raphael> scribenick: raphael
09:11:13 <raphael> Topic: 1. Admin
09:12:03 <raphael> Propose to accept the minutes of 25/03?
09:12:11 <raphael> YEs
09:12:24 <raphael> RESOLUTION: minutes of 25/03 are accepted
09:12:57 <raphael> Raphael: should we move the telecon hour, to be more convenient for Silvia ?
09:13:31 <raphael> Jack: I will miss one telecon every two weeks
09:13:42 <raphael> Raphael: proposal to have the telecon 2 hours later
09:13:51 <raphael> ... to be more convenient for Silvia
09:14:06 <raphael> ACTION: Raphael asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later
09:14:06 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Raphael
09:14:10 <davy> davy has joined #mediafrag
09:14:11 <raphael> trackbot, status
09:14:34 <raphael> ACTION: Raphaël asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later
09:14:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-54 - Asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-04-08].
09:14:47 <raphael> Topic: 2. F2F meeting
09:14:59 <erik> erik has joined #mediafrag
09:15:33 <raphael> Erik list the participants: Michael, Jack, Erik, Davy, Raphael, Conrad, David, Franck, Guillaume
09:16:07 <raphael> ... + Yves / Silvia on the phone
09:17:42 <raphael> Topic: 3. WD Document
09:17:55 <raphael> Erik: we will re-organize the section 5 significantly
09:19:02 <raphael> Raphael: my proposal, finish the document by next Wed 8 of April, and vote for publishing the document
09:19:06 <raphael> ... in our next telecon
09:19:13 <raphael> ... make a quick publication request
09:19:23 <raphael> and hope to have the document published on the 9th
09:19:34 <raphael> Erik: agree
09:20:21 <jackjansen> q+
09:20:34 <raphael> zakim, ack jack
09:20:34 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
09:20:45 <raphael> zakim, ack jackjansen
09:20:45 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
09:21:58 <raphael> Jack: Michael took my action, because I was busy ... but perhaps I can take over
09:22:13 <raphael> ... I will send an email to Michael, to ask him if I can take over
09:23:27 <raphael> Erik: difference between reference and informative sections?
09:24:06 <raphael> Raphael: informative parts are just for giving hints to the reader, generally dtd or schemas
09:24:12 <raphael> 3.1: Syntax
09:25:54 <raphael> Problem 1: not use '%' but spell it
09:26:13 <raphael> ACTION: Yves to change the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled
09:26:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-55 - Change the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-04-08].
09:26:34 <raphael> Problem 2: use of single quote (') and sub-delims in utf8string
09:29:38 <raphael> ACTION: Yves to change the formal grammar to have unreserved characters + %-escaped ones in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars
09:29:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-56 - Change the formal grammar to have unreserved characters + %-escaped ones in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-04-08].
09:30:23 <raphael> 3.2: Technologies Survey
09:30:35 <raphael> Erik and Davy will work on it on Monday / Tuesday
09:30:52 <raphael> 3.3: HTTP implementation
09:31:05 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation
09:31:31 <raphael> close ACTION-52
09:31:31 <trackbot> ACTION-52 Replace all examples in the HTTP implementation wiki page with the video Jack took closed
09:32:40 <raphael> Raphael: how can I have the byte ranges that correspond to my temporal interval?
09:34:03 <raphael> Jack: now we are entering into a different problem, that is, should we do transcoding or not?
09:34:32 <raphael> ... the bytes range will be different depending on transcoding or not
09:34:53 <raphael> Jack: I have just sent an email stating we should consider more the user
09:35:11 <raphael> ... see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Apr/0003.html
09:36:39 <raphael> Raphael: I think we should go for your option 2, and define what is reasonable
09:37:01 <raphael> ... what is the point 4? Is it related to the in-context discussion?
09:37:07 <raphael> Jack: no, no,  no
09:39:07 <raphael> Point 5: we leave that away, we haven't specified what the spatial cropping will actually do!
09:39:21 <raphael> Point 3: it seems to be related to the issue: transcoding or not
09:39:41 <raphael> Davy: if we want to re-syn the audio and video, then we need to transcode 
09:40:23 <raphael> Raphael: what is the worst thing that can happen?
09:40:32 <raphael> Davy: the audio and video might not be aligned
09:41:14 <raphael> Jack: the reason while I use a wget example, is that you want to store this piece and re-use it later on
09:42:01 <raphael> Davy: my proposal was to do no transcoding and have a reasonable out-of-synch
09:42:07 <raphael> ... same than for the I-Frame
09:42:27 <raphael> ... we choose the closest timeframe
09:42:32 <raphael> Jack: what is reasonable?
09:43:15 <raphael> Davy: I think there is studies which show what is the largest not-synch temporal interval that users can support
09:44:10 <raphael> Davy: you and I have different interpretation of what we allow for transcoding
09:44:20 <raphael> ... I prefer Jack's interpretation
09:44:50 <raphael> Jack: I had interpreted it as "we will not standardise any type of fragmenting that we think cannot be implemented without using transcoding".
09:45:03 <raphael> Davy: I interpret it as "an implementation is not allowed to do any transcoding".
09:45:15 <nessy> nessy has joined #mediafrag
09:45:22 <raphael> Davy also now prefers Jack's interpretation
09:45:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:47:30 <raphael> Jack: I think we can standardize a spec that can be implemented without transcoding
09:47:47 <raphael> Raphael: I'm also now confused, it is different from your previous statement
09:48:12 <Zakim> +nessy
09:49:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:50:27 <raphael> Jack: if we have no boundary cases for media fragments, it should work
09:53:04 <raphael> Raphael: should we make the algorithm in the spec, that says, jump to the previous I-Frame, etc.
09:53:13 <raphael> Jack: no, we should have in the spec, the user expectation
09:53:20 <raphael> Present+: Silvia
09:53:56 <raphael> Silvia: we should send larger sequence, in order to not transcode
09:53:58 <davy> +1 to Silvia
09:54:04 <raphael> +1 to Silvia
09:54:39 <raphael> Silvia: get wider intervals, on a best-effort basis
09:55:46 <raphael> Topic: 4. Implementation
09:56:37 <raphael> Silvia: talk about the new off spec
09:56:42 <raphael> s/off/ogg
09:57:47 <davy> I think mp4 is also capable of skipping frames
09:58:49 <raphael> Davy: the YouTube player is also working on a best effort, if you click on a time offset, then the player goes to the closest frame he can start to play
09:59:08 <davy> s/Davy/Silvia
09:59:40 <raphael> Raphael: what is the closest? can it be after?
09:59:51 <raphael> Silvia: I think it always goes back in time
09:59:58 <raphael> ... I need to check, but this is my experience
10:00:39 <raphael> close ACTION-53
10:00:39 <trackbot> ACTION-53 Check whether ffmpeg can slide movies easily, need for implementation on client and server side closed
10:00:47 <Gui> Gui has joined #mediafrag
10:01:38 <jackjansen> give me an action
10:02:53 <Zakim> -jackjansen
10:03:00 <raphael> ACTION: Jack to enter formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found, regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial cropping
10:03:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Enter formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found, regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial cropping [on Jack Jansen - due 2009-04-08].
10:03:49 <raphael> Silvia: I would like to have the telecon 2 hours later
10:04:51 <raphael> Silvia: I think the section use case and requirements is ready
10:05:12 <Gui> I agree
10:05:35 <raphael> Look at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation
10:06:07 <Gui> Looking
10:06:29 <Gui> I am all sorry for myself, I didn't know I was late till now ! :-( I thought we were back to normal hours. 
10:12:06 <Zakim> -Davy_Erik
10:12:07 <Zakim> -nessy
10:12:07 <Zakim> -raphael
10:12:09 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
10:12:10 <Zakim> Attendees were raphael, jackjansen, +0329331aaaa, Davy_Erik, nessy
10:12:18 <davy> davy has left #mediafrag
10:12:24 <raphael> Davy: I will use our platform to discover the mapping between seconds and bytes for this particular video
10:12:27 <raphael> ... and update the wiki
10:12:45 <raphael> No, AOB, Meeting adjourned
10:12:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:14:49 <raphael> zakim, bye
10:14:49 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediafrag
10:15:25 <raphael> RRSAgent, bye
10:15:25 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
10:15:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Raphael asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later [1]
10:15:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc#T09-14-06
10:15:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Raphaël asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later [2]
10:15:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc#T09-14-34
10:15:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to change the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled [3]
10:15:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc#T09-26-13
10:15:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yves to change the formal grammar to have unreserved characters + %-escaped ones in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars [4]
10:15:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc#T09-29-38
10:15:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jack to enter formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found, regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial cropping [5]
10:15:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc#T10-03-00