IRC log of svg on 2009-03-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:37:30 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
18:37:30 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc
18:37:32 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
18:37:32 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
18:37:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
18:37:34 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start 7 minutes ago
18:37:35 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
18:37:35 [trackbot]
Date: 30 March 2009
18:38:38 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
18:38:39 [Zakim]
+Shepazu
18:39:03 [Zakim]
-Shepazu
18:39:05 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended
18:39:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shepazu
18:39:07 [shepazu]
ChrisL: remember, we set it an hour back?
18:39:18 [ChrisL]
huh?
18:39:20 [shepazu]
it's not for another hour
18:39:32 [shepazu]
has the EU DST kicked in?
18:39:36 [ChrisL]
I thought we were waiting for australia to change, next week
18:39:45 [ChrisL]
yes, it kicked in on Sunday
18:39:52 [shepazu]
that explains it
18:40:05 [ChrisL]
zakim believes its now
18:40:35 [shepazu]
here, it's still just 2:40, the telcon is scheduled for 3:30 boston time
18:40:42 [shepazu]
yes, zakim has been confused for weeks
18:41:07 [shepazu]
I put in the reject a while back, but it doesn't seem to have taken
18:41:26 [ChrisL]
s/reject/request/
18:41:32 [shepazu]
er
18:41:41 [shepazu]
freudian slip?
18:42:12 [shepazu]
well, I got a response, but it didn't seem to work
18:42:19 [shepazu]
sure, you know my #?
18:42:36 [shepazu]
1-919-932-9872
18:42:46 [shepazu]
btw, I've rethought the new telcon times
18:43:06 [shepazu]
I can try to get up at 6:30 for a 7:00 call, if it works better for you
19:24:53 [heycam]
heycam has joined #svg
19:27:09 [anthony]
anthony has joined #svg
19:30:58 [shepazu]
trackbot, start telcon
19:31:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:31:03 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:31:03 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start 61 minutes ago
19:31:04 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:31:04 [trackbot]
Date: 30 March 2009
19:31:09 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
19:31:16 [Zakim]
+??P14
19:31:21 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P14 is me
19:31:22 [Zakim]
+Shepazu
19:31:22 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
19:31:31 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
19:31:39 [ed_]
Zakim, [ is me
19:31:39 [Zakim]
+ed_; got it
19:33:06 [Zakim]
+ +003395249aaaa
19:33:56 [heycam]
Zakim, who is on the call?
19:33:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see heycam, Shepazu, ed_, +003395249aaaa
19:33:59 [ChrisL]
zakim +00 is me
19:34:10 [ChrisL]
zakim, +00 is me
19:34:10 [Zakim]
+ChrisL; got it
19:34:21 [Zakim]
+??P4
19:34:34 [anthony]
Zakim, ??P4 is me
19:34:34 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
19:35:19 [heycam]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0323.html
19:35:21 [heycam]
Chair: Cameron
19:35:46 [ChrisL]
zakim, pick a victim
19:35:46 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose heycam
19:35:51 [ChrisL]
zakim, pick a victim
19:35:51 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ed_
19:36:03 [ed_]
scribe: erik
19:36:08 [ed_]
scribeNick: ed_
19:36:21 [ed_]
Topic: CSS/SVG coordination list
19:36:28 [Zakim]
+??P6
19:36:50 [ed_]
DS: we've got this list now, for future transforms specs we should point to this list
19:37:44 [shepazu]
public-fx@w3.org
19:37:51 [ed_]
Zakim, ??P6 is jwatt
19:37:51 [Zakim]
+jwatt; got it
19:38:17 [ed_]
Topic: Trait accessors for animation
19:38:21 [heycam]
http://www.w3.org/mid/A13D0B44629697468E9C6AE200CFD39A61A231FB1C@mailkeeper.mdigitalm.com
19:38:47 [ed_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html
19:39:37 [ed_]
CM: yeah, it should be the fill for the animation elements, not the <animation> element only
19:40:06 [ed_]
...create an erratum for this?
19:40:59 [ed_]
ACTION: AG to create an erratum for SVGT12, clarifying 'fill' in traitaccess, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html
19:40:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2505 - Create an erratum for SVGT12, clarifying 'fill' in traitaccess, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-04-06].
19:41:20 [ed_]
Topic: SVG integration module
19:41:55 [ed_]
DS: we could make a spec that would be the lists of all elements in all svg specs
19:42:09 [ed_]
...it would have method names, attribute names, and it would be normative
19:42:23 [ed_]
...and point to definitions of the relevant specs
19:42:58 [ed_]
...and also how svg integrates with other web techs, e.g svg in html:img... need not be html, could be docbook, odf etc
19:43:20 [ed_]
...have different usage scenarios
19:43:41 [ed_]
...that way the html5 spec wouldn't have to a list of elements/attributes
19:43:48 [ed_]
...for svg
19:44:09 [ed_]
CL: right, we could produce such a list
19:44:24 [ed_]
CM: you mention this table, and security issues etc
19:44:34 [ed_]
...it'd be good to have somewhere to write it down
19:44:49 [ed_]
...i think it warrants a spec, this is a common theme
19:44:57 [ed_]
DS: yes, these are all integration issues
19:45:20 [ed_]
...this would be good for ODF, if they decide to use svg as a native image format
19:45:44 [ed_]
CM: we could bring it back into svg 2.0 when it's ready
19:45:50 [ed_]
DS: should we do this?
19:46:04 [ed_]
CL: don't see a down side for doing this
19:46:23 [ed_]
DS: how hard would it be to change the scripts to generate tables of elements/attributes?
19:46:28 [ed_]
CM: probably not that hard
19:46:50 [ed_]
...the tiny12 has an rng, and that would be easy
19:47:41 [ed_]
...hsivonen is using a slightly modified version of the full 1.1 RNG, so it can't be that far off
19:48:18 [ed_]
...it'd be easier if 1.1 had an RNG, there's one
19:48:30 [Zakim]
-anthony
19:48:41 [ChrisL]
look into trang
19:48:48 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
19:49:01 [ed_]
...we'd like to have all elements from 1.1 and 1.2T, right?
19:49:06 [ed_]
CL/DS: yes
19:49:06 [anthony]
Zakim, [IP is me
19:49:06 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
19:49:35 [ed_]
DS: it'd still be a good idea to rewrite the RNG into functional modules
19:49:50 [ed_]
CL: maybe start with the SVG 1.2 and then delete stuff
19:50:04 [ed_]
DS: we could get rberjon to help us
19:50:28 [ed_]
...our rng was flawed in a few places for 1.2T
19:50:53 [ed_]
RESOLUTION: we will make an SVG integration module
19:51:48 [ed_]
DS: it would be nice because we could get a diff between 1.1 and 1.2T, for elements etc
19:52:51 [ed_]
CM: probably one reason to get a such a table would be to get HTML5 to reference it
19:53:19 [ed_]
CL: producing it will still help other people/specs
19:54:35 [ed_]
ACTION: heycam to create an SVG integration module and setup scripts for it
19:54:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2506 - Create an SVG integration module and setup scripts for it [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-04-06].
19:55:52 [ed_]
ACTION: DS to contact robin berjon to ask for help with converting the 1.1 DTD to RNG and related issues
19:55:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2507 - Contact robin berjon to ask for help with converting the 1.1 DTD to RNG and related issues [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-04-06].
19:57:38 [ed_]
Topic: everybody loves html, high five!
19:57:48 [ed_]
s/everybody loves html, high five!/SVG in HTML/
19:58:12 [ed_]
CM: we sent off our proposal document, which didn't address all of the points
19:58:27 [ed_]
...little of which actually resulted in changes in the html5 spec
19:59:38 [ChrisL]
So this document was produced as an action in the HTML WG, then rejected out of hand?
19:59:44 [ed_]
...it seems ian doesn't really want to get proposed working, so working on that document itself seems a waste of time
19:59:52 [ed_]
s/working/wording/
20:00:18 [ChrisL]
Suggest contacting the chair to ensure our document is reviewed
20:00:19 [ed_]
CL: suggest to talk to the HTMLWG chair and put it on their agenda
20:01:14 [ed_]
CM: there discussions ongoing on www-svg, and public-html
20:01:27 [Zakim]
-ed_
20:02:44 [heycam]
CM: perhaps for now the best venue for these discussions is on those mailing lists, then
20:03:30 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
20:03:34 [Zakim]
-anthony
20:03:37 [ChrisL]
zakim, room for 7?
20:03:38 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisL; conference Team_(svg)20:03Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 2103Z
20:03:39 [Zakim]
-heycam
20:03:45 [Zakim]
-Shepazu
20:03:55 [Zakim]
+Shepazu
20:04:24 [Zakim]
-jwatt
20:04:48 [ed_]
Zakim, who's here?
20:04:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shepazu
20:04:50 [Zakim]
On IRC I see anthony, heycam, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed_, shepazu, jwatt, hsivonen, Hixie, trackbot, ed_work
20:05:02 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
20:05:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shepazu
20:05:02 [shepazu]
y'all calling back?
20:05:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see anthony, heycam, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed_, shepazu, jwatt, hsivonen, Hixie, trackbot, ed_work
20:05:25 [ChrisL]
zakim, drop shepazu
20:05:25 [Zakim]
Shepazu is being disconnected
20:05:27 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended
20:05:28 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shepazu, heycam, [IPcaller], ed_, +003395249aaaa, ChrisL, anthony, jwatt
20:05:44 [heycam]
Zakim, this is Team_(svg)20:03
20:05:44 [Zakim]
ok, heycam; that matches Team_(svg)20:03Z
20:05:49 [heycam]
Zakim, who is here
20:05:49 [Zakim]
heycam, you need to end that query with '?'
20:05:51 [heycam]
Zakim, who is here?
20:05:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P3, ChrisL, ??P17, ??P4
20:05:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see anthony, heycam, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed_, shepazu, jwatt, hsivonen, Hixie, trackbot, ed_work
20:05:53 [Zakim]
+Doug_Schepers
20:06:06 [jwatt]
gah!
20:06:10 [jwatt]
conf restricted
20:06:22 [heycam]
jwatt, use 26631 as the code
20:07:32 [jwatt]
when?
20:07:47 [heycam]
when you dial back in?
20:08:09 [Zakim]
+??P6
20:08:20 [jwatt]
thought you meant as a passcode :/
20:08:22 [jwatt]
ta
20:09:37 [shepazu]
Zakim, ??P6 is jwatt
20:09:37 [Zakim]
+jwatt; got it
20:09:50 [ed_]
CM: I have an action to collate the remaining issues we hadn't got consensus on yet
20:09:51 [shepazu]
Zakim, who is here?
20:09:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P3, ChrisL, ??P17, ??P4, Doug_Schepers, jwatt
20:09:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see anthony, heycam, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed_, shepazu, jwatt, hsivonen, Hixie, trackbot, ed_work
20:09:57 [ed_]
...and to integrate them into the document
20:10:19 [ed_]
...but maybe it would be better to crosspost them to the mailinglist instead?
20:10:36 [shepazu]
Zakim, ??P3 is ed_
20:10:36 [Zakim]
+ed_; got it
20:10:38 [shepazu]
Zakim, ??P4 is anthony
20:10:38 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
20:10:52 [shepazu]
Zakim, ??P17 is heycam
20:10:52 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
20:11:41 [ed_]
DS: can we change the SVG 1.1 so radically (to convert the 1.1 DTD to RNG)?
20:11:55 [ed_]
CL: we should talk to philippe about that
20:12:14 [ed_]
ACTION: CL to check if we can replace the SVG 1.1 DTD with an RNG
20:12:14 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2508 - Check if we can replace the SVG 1.1 DTD with an RNG [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-04-06].
20:12:49 [ed_]
CM: so, what about discussing the HTML issues on the lists?
20:12:54 [ed_]
CL: sounds good
20:13:19 [ed_]
DS: yeah
20:13:37 [ed_]
CM: there are some constructive discussions going on there
20:14:15 [ed_]
...ok, I'll post the things we don't have consensus on
20:14:29 [ed_]
...and suggest that everyone join in on the discussions
20:15:42 [ed_]
Topic: Thoughts on cleaning up SVG 1.1 for Second Edition
20:16:09 [ed_]
CM: i'm looking at remaking the build scripts
20:16:22 [ed_]
...and also how to make 1.1 look a bit better
20:16:36 [ed_]
...to build the 1.1 spec and get the second edition published
20:16:52 [ed_]
...in the old cvs there's no master copy, so the source is rather bad
20:17:24 [heycam]
http://mcc.id.au/temp/struct.html
20:17:44 [ChrisL]
the code seems to have autogenerated markup but we don't have the sources or the scripts from which it was built
20:17:48 [ed_]
...here's an example of how it could look, main change is replacing the DTD fragments with something more readable
20:18:24 [ed_]
DS: an author reading the spec will understand this more easily
20:18:59 [ed_]
CM: the IDL will get generated definitions also
20:19:24 [ed_]
...I've written an IDL parser, and use that for generating the interface definitions
20:19:39 [heycam]
<a>'svg'</a>
20:20:00 [ed_]
...another advantage is that in the master version you can write <a>'svg'</a> and have it transformed into something useful
20:20:05 [heycam]
<a>container element</a>
20:20:07 [ed_]
DS: and for definitions?
20:20:11 [ed_]
CM: yes
20:20:13 [ChrisL]
for elements, attributes, properties and definitions
20:20:26 [ed_]
CL: what about types? strings, iri?
20:20:38 [ChrisL]
cool
20:20:40 [ed_]
CM: could use the same, not done yet though
20:20:53 [ed_]
CL: would be useful to have them
20:21:15 [ed_]
CM: the intro chapter defs would be nice, and where elements are in the spec etc
20:21:30 [ed_]
...parsing of
20:22:18 [ed_]
...if people are happy with this style then I can commit the scripts
20:22:26 [ed_]
CL: would like to use it for new modules
20:23:28 [ed_]
CM: could help with cross spec references too
20:23:46 [ed_]
...will check it into cvs even though it's not fully ready
20:23:55 [ed_]
...will let ppl know when it's ready for use
20:24:39 [ed_]
...links to interfaces would be nice
20:24:52 [ed_]
Topic: Raising the issue of multi-threading
20:25:37 [ed_]
CM: AA was asking about getBBox, and multithreading
20:25:42 [ed_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html
20:26:33 [ed_]
JW: it's contrary to how you use the DOM, and it wouldn't stop it from getting svg bbox
20:27:22 [ed_]
CL: multithreading is fine, if you can get advantages from it
20:27:50 [ed_]
...but you have to deal with making the implementation behave a certain predictable way
20:27:57 [ChrisL]
but you have to sync up the threads
20:28:06 [ed_]
CM: right, to have getBBox block until you can get a valid result
20:28:51 [ed_]
...it took a while until Firefox returned proper values from getBBox, and to break that would be a step backwards
20:29:04 [ed_]
...there's content that relies on this already
20:31:36 [ed_]
ED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0324.html has some suggestions for clarifying getBBox
20:32:19 [ed_]
...1.1 doesn't have the 1.2T wording about implementation-dependent bboxes for elements outside the document tree
20:33:28 [ed_]
JW: values can sometimes be resolved in a meaningful way, eg. <svg><rect></svg>
20:34:39 [ed_]
ACTION: ed to create an errata item for SVG 1.1 and the getBBox method, as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html
20:34:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2509 - Create an errata item for SVG 1.1 and the getBBox method, as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-04-06].
20:36:18 [ChrisL]
http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php
20:37:20 [ChrisL]
in the link above there is also a Firefox pre3.6+SMIL
20:37:55 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is noisy?
20:38:06 [Zakim]
ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: heycam (40%), Doug_Schepers (80%)
20:40:10 [Zakim]
-anthony
20:40:35 [ed_]
Topic: other stuff
20:40:45 [Zakim]
+??P0
20:40:46 [ed_]
[CL explains @color-profile]
20:40:49 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
20:40:49 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
20:42:21 [ed_]
JW: would be nice to have a way to specify the profile for the document
20:42:48 [ed_]
...if you wanted to resuse some profile from someone, you might want to set on a subtree only
20:43:14 [ed_]
CL: in terms of minimizing the syntax it won't give you much
20:43:28 [ed_]
...you'd still have to do the rgb fallbacks
20:43:54 [ed_]
s/other stuff/ICC color/
20:44:21 [ed_]
...reasonable to make some changes but might be incompatible with 1.1
20:44:38 [ed_]
AG: I've got some ppl here to review the color spec
20:45:08 [ed_]
...underspecified for printing, overspecified for web authoring
20:45:23 [ed_]
CL: i'd like to know the details of those
20:47:06 [ed_]
AG: what group do we want to target?
20:47:13 [ed_]
CL: I'd think both
20:47:50 [ChrisL]
its for repurposing content, screen+print, with an eye on screen improving
20:48:10 [ed_]
...we haven't covered colormatched raster images
20:48:34 [ed_]
...if you mix raster and vectors you want to fit colors together
20:49:08 [ed_]
AG: agree that the web needs more than sRGB
20:51:23 [ed_]
topic: telcon times
20:52:29 [ed_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0202.html
20:53:12 [ed_]
Mon 11:00 AM UTC, Mon 1:00 PM Central Europe, Mon 9:00 PM Eastern Australia, Mon 7:00 AM Eastern US/Canada.
20:53:12 [ed_]
Wed 11:00 AM UTC, Wed 1:00 PM Central Europe, Wed 9:00 PM Eastern Australia, Wed 7:00 AM Eastern US/Canada.
20:53:23 [ed_]
CM: fine for me
20:53:28 [ed_]
ED: great for me
20:54:02 [ed_]
DS: i'm flexible
20:55:41 [ed_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0271.html
20:55:58 [ed_]
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2009&month=4&day=1&hour=6&min=30&sec=0&p1=239&p2=240&p3=188&iv=1800
20:57:37 [ChrisL]
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=5&day=1&year=2009&p1=239&p2=240&p3=188&p4=-1&iv=1800
21:01:44 [ChrisL]
Fri 8:30 AM Stockholm Fri 4:30 PM Sydney 02:30 AM NC
21:02:53 [ChrisL]
8:30 AM Stockholm Fri 4:30 PM Sydney 02:30 AM NC
21:03:08 [ChrisL]
Mon and Weds
21:04:07 [ed_]
Topic: f2f meeting dates
21:04:51 [ed_]
CL: june f2f date conflicts with CSS meeting
21:05:48 [ed_]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/NCF2F2009
21:05:53 [ChrisL]
css wg is 3-5 June
21:09:21 [ed_]
DS: we could colocate with libregraphics
21:09:35 [ChrisL]
http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2009/
21:09:45 [ChrisL]
Montreal, 6 - 9 may 2009
21:09:58 [ed_]
...maybe next year we could do that
21:10:09 [ChrisL]
http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2009/
21:11:25 [ed_]
DS: let's plan our F2F for the second week of june
21:11:34 [ed_]
June 8 - 12
21:12:27 [ed_]
AG: fine with me
21:13:17 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings
21:13:26 [ChrisL]
need to update that, and the poll
21:13:36 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
21:13:38 [Zakim]
-jwatt
21:13:38 [ed_]
Zakim, bye
21:13:38 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #svg
21:13:39 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were ChrisL, Doug_Schepers, jwatt, ed_, anthony, heycam
21:14:13 [ed_]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:14:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html ed_
22:54:33 [anthony]
heycam: with the action I got this morning to make an errata item
22:54:42 [anthony]
is that for Tiny 1.2 or Full 1.1?
22:55:41 [heycam]
it's for 1.2T
22:55:51 [heycam]
for "fill" trait accessing
22:56:01 [heycam]
RRSAgent, bye
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-actions.rdf :
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AG to create an erratum for SVGT12, clarifying 'fill' in traitaccess, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html [1]
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc#T19-40-59
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: heycam to create an SVG integration module and setup scripts for it [2]
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc#T19-54-35
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DS to contact robin berjon to ask for help with converting the 1.1 DTD to RNG and related issues [3]
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc#T19-55-52
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CL to check if we can replace the SVG 1.1 DTD with an RNG [4]
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc#T20-12-14
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ed to create an errata item for SVG 1.1 and the getBBox method, as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html [5]
22:56:01 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc#T20-34-39
22:56:02 [anthony]
okies
22:56:03 [heycam]
zakim, bye