18:37:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
18:37:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc
18:37:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:37:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
18:37:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
18:37:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start 7 minutes ago
18:37:35 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
18:37:35 <trackbot> Date: 30 March 2009
18:38:38 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
18:38:39 <Zakim> +Shepazu
18:39:03 <Zakim> -Shepazu
18:39:05 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended
18:39:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu
18:39:07 <shepazu> ChrisL: remember, we set it an hour back?
18:39:18 <ChrisL> huh?
18:39:20 <shepazu> it's not for another hour
18:39:32 <shepazu> has the EU DST kicked in?
18:39:36 <ChrisL> I thought we were waiting for australia to change, next week
18:39:45 <ChrisL> yes, it kicked in on Sunday
18:39:52 <shepazu> that explains it
18:40:05 <ChrisL> zakim believes its now
18:40:35 <shepazu> here, it's still just 2:40, the telcon is scheduled for 3:30 boston time
18:40:42 <shepazu> yes, zakim has been confused for weeks
18:41:07 <shepazu> I put in the reject a while back, but it doesn't seem to have taken
18:41:26 <ChrisL> s/reject/request/
18:41:32 <shepazu> er
18:41:41 <shepazu> freudian slip?
18:42:12 <shepazu> well, I got a response, but it didn't seem to work
18:42:19 <shepazu> sure, you know my #?
18:42:36 <shepazu> 1-919-932-9872
18:42:46 <shepazu> btw, I've rethought the new telcon times
18:43:06 <shepazu> I can try to get up at 6:30 for a 7:00 call, if it works better for you
19:24:53 <heycam> heycam has joined #svg
19:27:09 <anthony> anthony has joined #svg
19:30:58 <shepazu> trackbot, start telcon
19:31:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:31:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:31:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start 61 minutes ago
19:31:04 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:31:04 <trackbot> Date: 30 March 2009
19:31:09 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
19:31:16 <Zakim> +??P14
19:31:21 <heycam> Zakim, ??P14 is me
19:31:22 <Zakim> +Shepazu
19:31:22 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
19:31:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:31:39 <ed_> Zakim, [ is me
19:31:39 <Zakim> +ed_; got it
19:33:06 <Zakim> + +003395249aaaa
19:33:56 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
19:33:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see heycam, Shepazu, ed_, +003395249aaaa
19:33:59 <ChrisL> zakim +00 is me
19:34:10 <ChrisL> zakim, +00 is me
19:34:10 <Zakim> +ChrisL; got it
19:34:21 <Zakim> +??P4
19:34:34 <anthony> Zakim, ??P4 is me
19:34:34 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
19:35:19 <heycam> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0323.html
19:35:21 <heycam> Chair: Cameron
19:35:46 <ChrisL> zakim, pick a victim
19:35:46 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose heycam
19:35:51 <ChrisL> zakim, pick a victim
19:35:51 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ed_
19:36:03 <ed_> scribe: erik
19:36:08 <ed_> scribeNick: ed_
19:36:21 <ed_> Topic: CSS/SVG coordination list
19:36:28 <Zakim> +??P6
19:36:50 <ed_> DS: we've got this list now, for future transforms specs we should point to this list
19:37:44 <shepazu> public-fx@w3.org
19:37:51 <ed_> Zakim, ??P6 is jwatt
19:37:51 <Zakim> +jwatt; got it
19:38:17 <ed_> Topic: Trait accessors for animation
19:38:21 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/mid/A13D0B44629697468E9C6AE200CFD39A61A231FB1C@mailkeeper.mdigitalm.com
19:38:47 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html
19:39:37 <ed_> CM: yeah, it should be the fill for the animation elements, not the <animation> element only
19:40:06 <ed_> ...create an erratum for this?
19:40:59 <ed_> ACTION: AG to create an erratum for SVGT12, clarifying 'fill' in traitaccess, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html
19:40:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2505 - Create an erratum for SVGT12, clarifying 'fill' in traitaccess, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-04-06].
19:41:20 <ed_> Topic: SVG integration module
19:41:55 <ed_> DS: we could make a spec that would be the lists of all elements in all svg specs
19:42:09 <ed_> ...it would have method names, attribute names, and it would be normative
19:42:23 <ed_> ...and point to definitions of the relevant specs
19:42:58 <ed_> ...and also how svg integrates with other web techs, e.g svg in html:img... need not be html, could be docbook, odf etc
19:43:20 <ed_> ...have different usage scenarios
19:43:41 <ed_> ...that way the html5 spec wouldn't have to a list of elements/attributes
19:43:48 <ed_> ...for svg
19:44:09 <ed_> CL: right, we could produce such a list
19:44:24 <ed_> CM: you mention this table, and security issues etc
19:44:34 <ed_> ...it'd be good to have somewhere to write it down
19:44:49 <ed_> ...i think it warrants a spec, this is a common theme
19:44:57 <ed_> DS: yes, these are all integration issues
19:45:20 <ed_> ...this would be good for ODF, if they decide to use svg as a native image format
19:45:44 <ed_> CM: we could bring it back into svg 2.0 when it's ready
19:45:50 <ed_> DS: should we do this?
19:46:04 <ed_> CL: don't see a down side for doing this
19:46:23 <ed_> DS: how hard would it be to change the scripts to generate tables of elements/attributes?
19:46:28 <ed_> CM: probably not that hard
19:46:50 <ed_> ...the tiny12 has an rng, and that would be easy
19:47:41 <ed_> ...hsivonen is using a slightly modified version of the full 1.1 RNG, so it can't be that far off
19:48:18 <ed_> ...it'd be easier if 1.1 had an RNG, there's one
19:48:30 <Zakim> -anthony
19:48:41 <ChrisL> look into trang
19:48:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:49:01 <ed_> ...we'd like to have all elements from 1.1 and 1.2T, right?
19:49:06 <ed_> CL/DS: yes
19:49:06 <anthony> Zakim, [IP is me
19:49:06 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
19:49:35 <ed_> DS: it'd still be a good idea to rewrite the RNG into functional modules
19:49:50 <ed_> CL: maybe start with the SVG 1.2 and then delete stuff
19:50:04 <ed_> DS: we could get rberjon to help us
19:50:28 <ed_> ...our rng was flawed in a few places for 1.2T
19:50:53 <ed_> RESOLUTION: we will make an SVG integration module
19:51:48 <ed_> DS: it would be nice because we could get a diff between 1.1 and 1.2T, for elements etc
19:52:51 <ed_> CM: probably one reason to get a such a table would be to get HTML5 to reference it
19:53:19 <ed_> CL: producing it will still help other people/specs
19:54:35 <ed_> ACTION: heycam to create an SVG integration module and setup scripts for it
19:54:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2506 - Create an SVG integration module and setup scripts for it [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-04-06].
19:55:52 <ed_> ACTION: DS to contact robin berjon to ask for help with converting the 1.1 DTD to RNG and related issues
19:55:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2507 - Contact robin berjon to ask for help with converting the 1.1 DTD to RNG and related issues [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-04-06].
19:57:38 <ed_> Topic: everybody loves html, high five!
19:57:48 <ed_> s/everybody loves html, high five!/SVG in HTML/
19:58:12 <ed_> CM: we sent off our proposal document, which didn't address all of the points
19:58:27 <ed_> ...little of which actually resulted in changes in the html5 spec
19:59:38 <ChrisL> So this document was produced as an action in the HTML WG, then rejected out of hand?
19:59:44 <ed_> ...it seems ian doesn't really want to get proposed working, so working on that document itself seems a waste of time
19:59:52 <ed_> s/working/wording/
20:00:18 <ChrisL> Suggest contacting the chair to ensure our document is reviewed
20:00:19 <ed_> CL: suggest to talk to the HTMLWG chair and put it on their agenda
20:01:14 <ed_> CM: there discussions ongoing on www-svg, and public-html
20:01:27 <Zakim> -ed_
20:02:44 <heycam> CM: perhaps for now the best venue for these discussions is on those mailing lists, then
20:03:30 <Zakim> -ChrisL
20:03:34 <Zakim> -anthony
20:03:37 <ChrisL> zakim, room for 7?
20:03:38 <Zakim> ok, ChrisL; conference Team_(svg)20:03Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 2103Z
20:03:39 <Zakim> -heycam
20:03:45 <Zakim> -Shepazu
20:03:55 <Zakim> +Shepazu
20:04:24 <Zakim> -jwatt
20:04:48 <ed_> Zakim, who's here?
20:04:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shepazu
20:04:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see anthony, heycam, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed_, shepazu, jwatt, hsivonen, Hixie, trackbot, ed_work
20:05:02 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
20:05:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shepazu
20:05:02 <shepazu> y'all calling back?
20:05:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see anthony, heycam, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed_, shepazu, jwatt, hsivonen, Hixie, trackbot, ed_work
20:05:25 <ChrisL> zakim, drop shepazu
20:05:25 <Zakim> Shepazu is being disconnected
20:05:27 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended
20:05:28 <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu, heycam, [IPcaller], ed_, +003395249aaaa, ChrisL, anthony, jwatt
20:05:44 <heycam> Zakim, this is Team_(svg)20:03
20:05:44 <Zakim> ok, heycam; that matches Team_(svg)20:03Z
20:05:49 <heycam> Zakim, who is here
20:05:49 <Zakim> heycam, you need to end that query with '?'
20:05:51 <heycam> Zakim, who is here?
20:05:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P3, ChrisL, ??P17, ??P4
20:05:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see anthony, heycam, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed_, shepazu, jwatt, hsivonen, Hixie, trackbot, ed_work
20:05:53 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
20:06:06 <jwatt> gah!
20:06:10 <jwatt> conf restricted
20:06:22 <heycam> jwatt, use 26631 as the code
20:07:32 <jwatt> when?
20:07:47 <heycam> when you dial back in?
20:08:09 <Zakim> +??P6
20:08:20 <jwatt> thought you meant as a passcode :/
20:08:22 <jwatt> ta
20:09:37 <shepazu> Zakim, ??P6 is jwatt 
20:09:37 <Zakim> +jwatt; got it
20:09:50 <ed_> CM: I have an action to collate the remaining issues we hadn't got consensus on yet
20:09:51 <shepazu> Zakim, who is here?
20:09:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P3, ChrisL, ??P17, ??P4, Doug_Schepers, jwatt
20:09:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see anthony, heycam, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed_, shepazu, jwatt, hsivonen, Hixie, trackbot, ed_work
20:09:57 <ed_> ...and to integrate them into the document
20:10:19 <ed_> ...but maybe it would be better to crosspost them to the mailinglist instead?
20:10:36 <shepazu> Zakim, ??P3 is ed_ 
20:10:36 <Zakim> +ed_; got it
20:10:38 <shepazu> Zakim, ??P4 is anthony
20:10:38 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
20:10:52 <shepazu> Zakim, ??P17 is heycam
20:10:52 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
20:11:41 <ed_> DS: can we change the SVG 1.1 so radically (to convert the 1.1 DTD to RNG)?
20:11:55 <ed_> CL: we should talk to philippe about that
20:12:14 <ed_> ACTION: CL to check if we can replace the SVG 1.1 DTD with an RNG
20:12:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2508 - Check if we can replace the SVG 1.1 DTD with an RNG [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-04-06].
20:12:49 <ed_> CM: so, what about discussing the HTML issues on the lists?
20:12:54 <ed_> CL: sounds good
20:13:19 <ed_> DS: yeah
20:13:37 <ed_> CM: there are some constructive discussions going on there
20:14:15 <ed_> ...ok, I'll post the things we don't have consensus on
20:14:29 <ed_> ...and suggest that everyone join in on the discussions
20:15:42 <ed_> Topic: Thoughts on cleaning up SVG 1.1 for Second Edition
20:16:09 <ed_> CM: i'm looking at remaking the build scripts
20:16:22 <ed_> ...and also how to make 1.1 look a bit better
20:16:36 <ed_> ...to build the 1.1 spec and get the second edition published
20:16:52 <ed_> ...in the old cvs there's no master copy, so the source is rather bad
20:17:24 <heycam> http://mcc.id.au/temp/struct.html
20:17:44 <ChrisL> the code seems to have autogenerated markup but we don't have the sources or the scripts from which it was built
20:17:48 <ed_> ...here's an example of how it could look, main change is replacing the DTD fragments with something more readable
20:18:24 <ed_> DS: an author reading the spec will understand this more easily
20:18:59 <ed_> CM: the IDL will get generated definitions also
20:19:24 <ed_> ...I've written an IDL parser, and use that for generating the interface definitions
20:19:39 <heycam> <a>'svg'</a>
20:20:00 <ed_> ...another advantage is that in the master version you can write <a>'svg'</a> and have it transformed into something useful
20:20:05 <heycam> <a>container element</a>
20:20:07 <ed_> DS: and for definitions?
20:20:11 <ed_> CM: yes
20:20:13 <ChrisL> for elements, attributes, properties and definitions
20:20:26 <ed_> CL: what about types? strings, iri?
20:20:38 <ChrisL> cool
20:20:40 <ed_> CM: could use the same, not done yet though
20:20:53 <ed_> CL: would be useful to have them
20:21:15 <ed_> CM: the intro chapter defs would be nice, and where elements are in the spec etc
20:21:30 <ed_> ...parsing of
20:22:18 <ed_> ...if people are happy with this style then I can commit the scripts
20:22:26 <ed_> CL: would like to use it for new modules
20:23:28 <ed_> CM: could help with cross spec references too
20:23:46 <ed_> ...will check it into cvs even though it's not fully ready
20:23:55 <ed_> ...will let ppl know when it's ready for use
20:24:39 <ed_> ...links to interfaces would be nice
20:24:52 <ed_> Topic: Raising the issue of multi-threading
20:25:37 <ed_> CM: AA was asking about getBBox, and multithreading
20:25:42 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html
20:26:33 <ed_> JW: it's contrary to how you use the DOM, and it wouldn't stop it from getting svg bbox
20:27:22 <ed_> CL: multithreading is fine, if you can get advantages from it
20:27:50 <ed_> ...but you have to deal with making the implementation behave a certain predictable way
20:27:57 <ChrisL> but you have to sync up the threads
20:28:06 <ed_> CM: right, to have getBBox block until you can get a valid result
20:28:51 <ed_> ...it took a while until Firefox returned proper values from getBBox, and to break that would be a step backwards
20:29:04 <ed_> ...there's content that relies on this already
20:31:36 <ed_> ED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0324.html has some suggestions for clarifying getBBox
20:32:19 <ed_> ...1.1 doesn't have the 1.2T wording about implementation-dependent bboxes for elements outside the document tree
20:33:28 <ed_> JW: values can sometimes be resolved in a meaningful way, eg. <svg><rect></svg>
20:34:39 <ed_> ACTION: ed to create an errata item for SVG 1.1 and the getBBox method, as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html
20:34:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2509 - Create an errata item for SVG 1.1 and the getBBox method, as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-04-06].
20:36:18 <ChrisL> http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php
20:37:20 <ChrisL> in the link above there is also a Firefox pre3.6+SMIL
20:37:55 <ChrisL> zakim, who is noisy?
20:38:06 <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: heycam (40%), Doug_Schepers (80%)
20:40:10 <Zakim> -anthony
20:40:35 <ed_> Topic: other stuff
20:40:45 <Zakim> +??P0
20:40:46 <ed_> [CL explains @color-profile]
20:40:49 <heycam> Zakim, ??P0 is me
20:40:49 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
20:42:21 <ed_> JW: would be nice to have a way to specify the profile for the document
20:42:48 <ed_> ...if you wanted to resuse some profile from someone, you might want to set on a subtree only
20:43:14 <ed_> CL: in terms of minimizing the syntax it won't give you much
20:43:28 <ed_> ...you'd still have to do the rgb fallbacks
20:43:54 <ed_> s/other stuff/ICC color/
20:44:21 <ed_> ...reasonable to make some changes but might be incompatible with 1.1
20:44:38 <ed_> AG: I've got some ppl here to review the color spec
20:45:08 <ed_> ...underspecified for printing, overspecified for web authoring
20:45:23 <ed_> CL: i'd like to know the details of those
20:47:06 <ed_> AG: what group do we want to target?
20:47:13 <ed_> CL: I'd think both
20:47:50 <ChrisL> its for repurposing content, screen+print, with an eye on screen improving
20:48:10 <ed_> ...we haven't covered colormatched raster images
20:48:34 <ed_> ...if you mix raster and vectors you want to fit colors together
20:49:08 <ed_> AG: agree that the web needs more than sRGB
20:51:23 <ed_> topic: telcon times
20:52:29 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0202.html
20:53:12 <ed_> Mon 11:00 AM UTC, Mon 1:00 PM Central Europe, Mon 9:00 PM Eastern Australia, Mon 7:00 AM Eastern US/Canada.
20:53:12 <ed_>   Wed 11:00 AM UTC, Wed 1:00 PM Central Europe, Wed 9:00 PM Eastern Australia, Wed 7:00 AM Eastern US/Canada.
20:53:23 <ed_> CM: fine for me
20:53:28 <ed_> ED: great for me
20:54:02 <ed_> DS: i'm flexible
20:55:41 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0271.html
20:55:58 <ed_> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2009&month=4&day=1&hour=6&min=30&sec=0&p1=239&p2=240&p3=188&iv=1800
20:57:37 <ChrisL> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=5&day=1&year=2009&p1=239&p2=240&p3=188&p4=-1&iv=1800
21:01:44 <ChrisL> Fri 8:30 AM  Stockholm Fri 4:30 PM Sydney 02:30 AM NC
21:02:53 <ChrisL> 8:30 AM  Stockholm Fri 4:30 PM Sydney 02:30 AM NC
21:03:08 <ChrisL> Mon and Weds
21:04:07 <ed_> Topic: f2f meeting dates
21:04:51 <ed_> CL: june f2f date conflicts with CSS meeting
21:05:48 <ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/NCF2F2009
21:05:53 <ChrisL> css wg is 3-5 June
21:09:21 <ed_> DS: we could colocate with libregraphics
21:09:35 <ChrisL> http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2009/
21:09:45 <ChrisL> Montreal, 6 - 9 may 2009
21:09:58 <ed_> ...maybe next year we could do that
21:10:09 <ChrisL> http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2009/
21:11:25 <ed_> DS: let's plan our F2F for the second week of june
21:11:34 <ed_> June 8 - 12
21:12:27 <ed_> AG: fine with me
21:13:17 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings
21:13:26 <ChrisL> need to update that, and the poll
21:13:36 <Zakim> -ChrisL
21:13:38 <Zakim> -jwatt
21:13:38 <ed_> Zakim, bye
21:13:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
21:13:39 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were ChrisL, Doug_Schepers, jwatt, ed_, anthony, heycam
21:14:13 <ed_> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:14:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-minutes.html ed_
22:54:33 <anthony> heycam: with the action I got this morning to make an errata item
22:54:42 <anthony> is that for Tiny 1.2 or Full 1.1?
22:55:41 <heycam> it's for 1.2T
22:55:51 <heycam> for "fill" trait accessing
22:56:01 <heycam> RRSAgent, bye
22:56:01 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-actions.rdf :
22:56:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AG to create an erratum for SVGT12, clarifying 'fill' in traitaccess, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0327.html [1]
22:56:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc#T19-40-59
22:56:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: heycam to create an SVG integration module and setup scripts for it [2]
22:56:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc#T19-54-35
22:56:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DS to contact robin berjon to ask for help with converting the 1.1 DTD to RNG and related issues [3]
22:56:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc#T19-55-52
22:56:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CL to check if we can replace the SVG 1.1 DTD with an RNG [4]
22:56:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc#T20-12-14
22:56:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ed to create an errata item for SVG 1.1 and the getBBox method, as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0321.html [5]
22:56:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/30-svg-irc#T20-34-39
22:56:02 <anthony> okies
22:56:03 <heycam> zakim, bye