15:38:24 RRSAgent has joined #tagmem 15:38:24 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-tagmem-irc 15:38:30 zakim, this will be TAG 15:38:30 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ht 15:38:39 zakim, this will be tag 15:38:39 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ht 15:38:45 zakim, conferences? 15:38:45 I don't understand your question, ht. 15:39:47 Meeting: TAG telcon 15:39:52 Chair: Noah Mendelsohn 15:39:57 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/03/26-agenda.html 15:40:08 ht has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/03/26-agenda.html 15:41:00 Scribe: Henry S. Thompson 15:41:03 ScribeNick: ht 16:01:24 zakim, this will be TAG 16:01:24 ok, ht; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 59 minutes 16:14:08 jar has joined #tagmem 16:53:54 raman has joined #tagmem 16:59:10 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started 16:59:17 +[IBMCambridge] 16:59:26 zakim, [IBMCambridge] is me 16:59:26 +noah; got it 17:00:34 Ashok has joined #tagmem 17:01:44 zakim, who is here? 17:01:44 On the phone I see noah 17:01:45 On IRC I see Ashok, raman, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, noah, trackbot 17:02:12 zakim, please call ht-781 17:02:12 ok, ht; the call is being made 17:02:14 +Ht 17:03:00 +Ashok_Malhotra 17:03:57 johnk has joined #tagmem 17:04:47 zakim, who is here? 17:04:47 On the phone I see noah, Ht, Ashok_Malhotra 17:04:49 On IRC I see johnk, Ashok, raman, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, noah, trackbot 17:05:03 Any of you other folks planning to call in? 17:05:06 +John_Kemp 17:06:57 +alanr 17:07:01 sorry about that. 17:07:33 zakim, who is here? 17:07:33 On the phone I see noah, Ht, Ashok_Malhotra, John_Kemp, alanr 17:07:34 On IRC I see johnk, Ashok, raman, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, noah, trackbot 17:07:41 zakim, alan is jar 17:07:41 +jar; got it 17:07:56 zakim broken? 17:08:16 +Raman 17:08:26 alan R and I share a phone. zakim can't tell which of us is there 17:09:10 +TimBL 17:09:15 zakim, who is here? 17:09:15 On the phone I see noah, Ht, Ashok_Malhotra, John_Kemp, jar, Raman, TimBL 17:09:17 On IRC I see johnk, Ashok, raman, jar, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, timbl, noah, trackbot 17:09:38 Topic: Admin 17:10:08 NM: Regrets: DC, LM 17:10:21 NM: Telcon next week, LM to scribe 17:10:34 TVR: Regrets for 9, 15, 23 April 17:10:44 HST: Regrets for 9 April 17:11:19 NM: JAR to scribe on 2 April if LM not available 17:11:30 My regrets for april 23 17:11:32 s/next week/next week, 2 April/ 17:12:24 NM: Minutes of 12 April: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/03/12-minutes 17:12:39 RESOLUTION: Minutes of 12 April approved as published 17:12:52 NM: Minutes of F2F now complete 17:13:24 HST: I made one emendation, LM not here... 17:13:37 I'm dropping off the phone and going to dial back in - I don't know why my line is noisy, but will try again 17:13:42 NM: We'll deal next week if not addressed by email 17:13:43 -John_Kemp 17:14:04 NM: Tech Plenary 2-6 November in Santa Clara - will we be there? 17:14:05 +John_Kemp 17:14:36 hmmm 17:14:36 ... We should respond to this survey 17:15:09 ... I propose 1/2 day Monday, 1/2 day Friday, as usual 17:15:32 ... We haven't yet agreed to call this a formal meeting 17:17:46 I suggest that maybe Noah is saying something similar to: Need formal meeting by end of November. Options: (a) near TPAC, (b) other. ? 17:17:53 HST: I think your suggestion is correct 17:18:26 NM: OK, I will respond saying we will have a TAG meeting, 1/2 day M and F 17:18:50 HST: I think we should meet in September 17:19:48 NM: I would welcome email to provide information about timing for a September meeting 17:20:20 TBL: This is a good time to talk about September 17:20:40 ... I will send a tentative commitment I have then 17:21:11 NM: I am inclined to oscillate between E and W Coast of the US 17:21:19 ... based on member locations 17:21:34 ... which suggests September on the W Coast . . . 17:22:17 NM: I requested some input on TAG priorities in email going forward 17:22:33 ... Please put some time into this on email, so we don't have to burn telcon time on it 17:22:44 Topic: HTML 17:27:27 NM: trackbot, action-188? 17:27:36 trackbot, action-188? 17:27:36 Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, action-188?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 17:27:46 trackbot, action-188 17:27:46 Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, action-188'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 17:27:54 action-188? 17:27:54 ACTION-188 -- Dan Connolly to investigate the URL/IRI/Larry Masinter possible resolution of the URL/HTML5 issue. -- due 2009-03-17 -- OPEN 17:27:54 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/188 17:28:13 NM: That's been taken care of 17:28:23 trackbot, close action-188 17:28:23 ACTION-188 Investigate the URL/IRI/Larry Masinter possible resolution of the URL/HTML5 issue. closed 17:29:07 Topic: webApplicationState-60 (ISSUE-60): Web Application State Management 17:30:12 NM: The first link in the agenda is wrong 17:30:35 webApplicationStae-60? 17:30:52 issue-60? 17:30:52 ISSUE-60 -- Web Application State Management -- OPEN 17:30:52 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/60 17:32:13 NM: We have had a draft from TVR for consideration: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url.html 17:32:17 Dated 20 March 2008 17:32:35 TVR: I'd like to publish this as a Working Draft 17:32:44 JK: I sent some editorial suggestions 17:33:01 TVR: Missed them, please resend and I will try to incorporate 17:33:30 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html 17:33:33 JK: There is evidence that you were working towards two Best Practices -- are you prepared to actually go there? 17:33:40 q? 17:34:08 TVR: I was unsure we were ready to go there already, but if you think we're ready for that, I'll try to get those in 17:34:22 q+ to say I'm unsure 17:34:36 (note that the agenda for this meeting inadvertently referenced and linked to David Orchard's draft state finding -- it is indeed Raman's, linked above, that we are discussing) 17:35:12 JK: 1) Use # plus [miseed this] 17:35:20 JK: 2) Don't use bare # 17:35:49 TVR: I'm convinced (2) is correct, but worried that this will get a lot of pushback from the AJAX community who use it a lot 17:36:33 HT: Unsure on recommending (1) without first checking w/HTTPbis folks 17:36:46 TVR: Agree. We've observed this, don't yet know whether it's best practice. 17:37:05 HT: I'm concerned that it's not up to us to change the basic story about frag semantics 17:37:17 JK: JSONP? 17:37:27 TVR: Not only that 17:37:39 ... I'm not as comfortable with that solution 17:38:01 q+ 17:38:03 ... because it's the first example where a bookmark assumes particular (JSON) capability in a browser 17:38:07 ack ht 17:38:07 ht, you wanted to say I'm unsure 17:38:41 TVR: That's not the sort of thing that bookmarks have required in the past 17:39:00 ack noah 17:39:12 NM: Built-in capabilities, or contingent problems because there is state which isn't recorded? 17:39:22 my email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Mar/0144.html 17:39:31 (unhelpfully titled, I can see) 17:39:33 TVR: The latter is just a bug -- it's the former that I'm talking about 17:40:41 ... The thing that makes up the presentation which results from retrieving a URI with such a # package depends on more than the URI, but on client-resident code as well 17:41:00 JK: You reference the JSON-with-padding proposal, but don't talk about it much. . . 17:41:27 q? 17:41:32 TVR: That was sort of intentional -- I wasn't ready to dig in to that while it's still moving 17:42:15 NM: So adding links would be a minimum addition? 17:42:25 JK: No, the problem is that there's no discussion 17:42:32 TVR: I'll try to fix 17:42:59 NM: Ready to vote 17:43:40 HST: Happy to review this after TV's edits, and publish if we're happy in his absence 17:43:44 TVR: I'm OK with that 17:44:04 NM: So I propose to ask TV to prepare a new draft, and we'll review and publish, or not 17:44:49 RESOLUTION: To give TVR an action to prepare a new draft for the group to review and possibly publish 17:45:31 ACTION: TVR to prepare a new draft of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html for review by the group 17:45:31 Sorry, couldn't find user - TVR 17:45:56 trackbot, status? 17:46:05 ACTION: T.V. to prepare a new draft of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html for review by the group 17:46:05 Created ACTION-248 - Prepare a new draft of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html for review by the group [on T.V. Raman - due 2009-04-02]. 17:47:00 dckc has joined #tagmem 17:47:01 ACTION: ht to put the next draft of of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html into WD-publication-ready form 17:47:01 Created ACTION-249 - Put the next draft of of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url-20080320.html into WD-publication-ready form [on Henry S. Thompson - due 2009-04-02]. 17:47:44 NM: Any other work we should be doing wrt this issue? 17:47:54 action-193? 17:47:54 ACTION-193 -- Dan Connolly to try to draft a blog posting adapted from http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url, with help from TVR -- due 2009-02-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:47:54 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/193 17:47:58 Henry, you mentioned HTTPbis 17:47:59 ? 17:48:02 earlier 17:48:20 i'd like to withdraw 193 17:48:43 OK with me 17:48:48 HST: I'm happy to close it 17:48:54 close action-193 17:48:54 ACTION-193 Try to draft a blog posting adapted from http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url, with help from TVR closed 17:49:01 action-234? 17:49:01 ACTION-234 -- John Kemp to review the current draft of Usage Patterns For Client-Side URL parameters for possible publication -- due 2009-03-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:49:01 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/234 17:49:12 close action-234 17:49:12 ACTION-234 Review the current draft of Usage Patterns For Client-Side URL parameters for possible publication closed 17:49:18 action-247? 17:49:18 ACTION-247 -- to noah to schedule followup on Raman proposal: publish issue 60 draft -- due 2009-03-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:49:18 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/247 17:49:32 close action-247 17:49:32 ACTION-247 Noah to schedule followup on Raman proposal: publish issue 60 draft closed 17:49:56 action-235? 17:49:56 ACTION-235 -- Ashok Malhotra to review the current draft of Usage Patterns For Client-Side URL parameters for possible publication -- due 2009-03-11 -- OPEN 17:49:56 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/235 17:50:02 close action-235 17:50:02 ACTION-235 Review the current draft of Usage Patterns For Client-Side URL parameters for possible publication closed 17:50:39 HT: Should we liaise with HTTPbis on this? I think it's 3986. They're revising 2616. 17:50:56 HST: HTTP bis work is to revise 2616, not 3986, and # semantics is properly 3986. . . 17:51:20 NM: Actually, 3986 delegates to 2616 for http: 17:51:34 ... which gets a bit funny when you don't actually do a GET 17:52:09 s/3986 delegates to 2616 for http:/3986 delegates to the specific media types/ 17:52:45 NM: TVR, in the cases you've explored, does the left-hand-side (before the #) stay stable? 17:52:57 TVR: Usually, but not always 17:53:35 NM: So, the retrieval would have given you a media-type, but maybe you haven't done a GET at all 17:53:56 ... Maybe you just put a URI on the history stack 17:54:11 TVR: You've done GETs before that, to build up your state 17:55:09 ... You start with a URI, you do some XHR GETs, you arrive in a state, and you then record the resulting presentation's parameterisations in a post-# bundle 17:55:43 NM: If you change the LHS at that point, not clear what specs apply 17:55:57 TVR: You can't change out of the same domain, for security reasons 17:56:27 NM: So, anyway, media type specs are the issue 17:56:59 HST: That's the problem -- no-one is actually currently responsible for 3986-related issues 17:57:19 NM: We need a shepherd for this issue 17:57:34 hmm 17:57:35 ... The shepherd should add a note about this liaison gap 17:57:55 TVR: I will be the shepherd 17:58:27 NM: I need the shepherd to keep this up to date 17:58:31 thanks, raman 17:58:51 TVR: I will do so, but in a flat file 17:58:56 NM: OK, we'll make that work 17:59:41 Topic: CURIEs 18:01:05 s/CURIEs/CURIEs in RDFa, @rel, and the HTML profile attribute/ 18:01:24 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Feb/0295.html 18:02:18 JK: The basic issue is that Creative Commons have published a spec which uses RDFa, including CURIEs, in vanilla HTML 18:02:29 -jar 18:02:33 > Specifications for particular attribute values or other content MAY be 18:02:33 > written to allow either CURIEs or IRIs (or URIs, etc.). The 18:02:33 > specifications for such languages MUST provide rules for disambiguantion 18:02:33 > in situations where the same string could be interpreted as either a CURIE 18:02:33 > or an IRI. One way to do this is to require that all CURIEs be expressed 18:02:33 > as safe_CURIEs, implying that all unbracketed strings are to be 18:02:37 > interpreted directly as IRIs. 18:02:38 > 18:02:39 ...which, unfortunately, RDFa-in-XHTML does not follow. 18:02:50 Ben Adida made a nice summary - was it of this issue? I'll look for it... 18:02:52 redialing 18:03:02 +jar 18:03:03 sorry about that 18:04:29 JK: I have an action to work up a summary to help us get going on this 18:04:55 my action is ACTION-240 18:05:00 to be a shepherd 18:05:12 action-240? 18:05:12 ACTION-240 -- John Kemp to read thread on RDFa, CURIEs and profile and summarize http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Feb/0295.html -- due 2009-03-12 -- OPEN 18:05:12 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/240 18:05:23 http://rdfa.info/wiki/%40rel_attribute_discussion 18:06:01 make action-240 due 21 March 18:06:09 trackbot, make action-240 due 21 March 18:06:09 Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, make action-240 due 21 March'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 18:06:38 Topic: contentTypeOverride-24 (ISSUE-24) 18:06:45 issue-24? 18:06:45 ISSUE-24 -- Can a specification include rules for overriding HTTPcontent type parameters? -- OPEN 18:06:45 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/24 18:07:03 http://ietfreport.isoc.org/idref/draft-abarth-mime-sniff/ 18:07:36 action-240 due 21 March 18:07:36 ACTION-240 Read thread on RDFa, CURIEs and profile and summarize http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Feb/0295.html due date now 21 March 18:08:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Feb/0230.html 18:09:37 Dan's note points to feedback from Roy: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Aug/0034.html 18:11:33 ACTION: NM to check with DanC or others to get him/them to suitably frame the discussion of Issue-24 for a subsequent meeting 18:11:33 Created ACTION-250 - Check with DanC or others to get him/them to suitably frame the discussion of Issue-24 for a subsequent meeting [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2009-04-02]. 18:11:57 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview 18:12:05 Topic: Review of PENDINGREVIEW actions 18:12:43 close action-165 18:12:43 ACTION-165 Formulate erratum text on versioning for the web architecture document closed 18:13:08 close action-176 18:13:08 ACTION-176 send comments on exi w.r.t. evaluation and efficiency closed 18:14:09 close action-200 18:14:09 ACTION-200 Revise "Uniform Access to Metadata" (needs title change) to add XRD use case closed 18:14:22 close action-205 18:14:22 ACTION-205 Henry to begin responding to Marcos asking the question: Why does the spec not say "A conforming spec MUST recommend a hierarchical adressing schems that can be used to address the individual resources within a widget resource from within a config doc, widget, or other constituent of the same widget pkg." closed 18:14:41 close action-213 18:14:41 ACTION-213 Convene weekly teleconference, take roll (regrets: Tim), review agenda closed 18:15:05 close action-215 18:15:05 ACTION-215 Announce minutes of 19 Feb TAG teleconference closed 18:16:36 ACTION-215? 18:16:36 ACTION-215 -- Ashok Malhotra to announce minutes of 19 Feb TAG teleconference -- due 2009-02-23 -- CLOSED 18:16:36 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/215 18:17:28 close action-217 18:17:29 ACTION-217 Raise moving the registry to w3.org with Mark Nottingham closed 18:18:13 close action-221 18:18:13 ACTION-221 Work with Dave Orchard to close up the formalism facet of the versioning document, due in two weeks closed 18:19:35 close action-238 18:19:35 ACTION-238 - Ask Security Maintenance WG about relevance of a default processing model closed 18:20:43 close action-243 18:20:43 ACTION-243 Assemble minutes from SFO for day 1 based on http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-tagmem-irc closed 18:20:56 trackbot, status 18:21:08 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue 18:21:33 Action: Dan to assemble the Mar 2009 f2f minutes from the now-complete 3 daily records 18:21:33 Created ACTION-251 - Assemble the Mar 2009 f2f minutes from the now-complete 3 daily records [on Dan Connolly - due 2009-04-02]. 18:22:17 NM: AOB? 18:22:23 NM: Adjourned 18:22:26 -noah 18:22:27 -jar 18:22:28 -John_Kemp 18:22:30 -Raman 18:22:37 -Ashok_Malhotra 18:22:38 -TimBL 18:22:52 -Ht 18:22:54 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended 18:22:56 Attendees were noah, Ht, Ashok_Malhotra, John_Kemp, alanr, jar, Raman, TimBL 18:23:12 rrsagent, make logs world-visible 18:23:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 18:23:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-tagmem-minutes.html ht 18:24:46 Noah, see private channel please 18:31:21 timbl_ has joined #tagmem 19:57:43 timbl has joined #tagmem 19:59:50 timbl has joined #tagmem 20:01:19 Zakim has left #tagmem 21:54:08 timbl has left #tagmem 22:28:58 timbl_ has joined #tagmem