19:31:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:31:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-svg-irc
19:31:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:31:17 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
19:31:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:31:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM already started
19:31:20 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:31:20 <trackbot> Date: 26 March 2009
19:32:19 <Zakim> +Shepazu
19:32:35 <Zakim> +??P1
19:32:44 <ed__> Zakim, ??P1 is me
19:32:44 <Zakim> +ed__; got it
19:33:06 <ed__> Zakim, who's here?
19:33:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, Shepazu, ed__
19:33:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, ed__, jwatt, anthony, hsivonen, Hixie, shepazu, trackbot, ed_work
19:33:23 <jwatt> Zakim: ??P0 is me
19:33:34 <jwatt> Zakim, ??P0 is me
19:33:34 <Zakim> +jwatt; got it
19:35:47 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
19:40:02 <Zakim> +ChrisL
19:41:54 <ed__> Zakim, pick a victim
19:41:54 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ChrisL
19:43:09 <ChrisL> scribenick: jwatt
19:43:09 <jwatt> scribenick: jwatt
19:43:11 <ed__> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0301.html
19:43:59 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/color/master/SVGColor.html
19:44:14 <jwatt> ED: since Antony isn't here, let's skip Compositing for now
19:44:16 <jwatt> topic: Color module
19:44:42 <jwatt> CL: I've split the pagination and color sections in too
19:45:03 <jwatt> ...: we should discuss viewportFill to see if that should be updated
19:45:05 <anthony> s/too/two/
19:45:31 <ChrisL> The solidColor element also needs to be extended to allow the ICC etc color syntaxes.
19:47:01 <Zakim> +??P3
19:47:04 <jwatt> CL: we have solidColor so people don't need to specify a gradient with two stops
19:47:06 <anthony> Zakim, ??P3 is me
19:47:06 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
19:47:21 <ChrisL> s/stops/stops with the same values/
19:48:12 <ChrisL> as its a paint server lots of things can point to it and then animating it once
19:48:56 <ed__> ED: it's planned that stop-color will have the cielab etc color syntaxes as well, yes?
19:49:12 <jwatt> CL: if you scroll down a bit you will see the solidColor property
19:49:22 <jwatt> ...I'm taking out all this stuff:
19:49:26 <ChrisL> i'm replacing <color>  [icc-color(<name>[,<icccolorvalue>]*)] | witha single token
19:50:16 <jwatt> CL: I'm replacing the above (scattered all over) with a single token that makes it easier to read, and less likely we'll introduce errors somewhere
19:50:48 <jwatt> AG: I can propose wording and I have some diagrams
19:51:59 <anthony> http://www.svgopen.org/2007/papers/PublishingAndPrintingWithSVG/index.html#S8.3.2
19:52:27 <jwatt> ED: I would like to see rgba()/hsla()
19:52:38 <jwatt> CL: that's got nothing to do with color management
19:52:56 <jwatt> ED: no, but it does have to do with paint syntax
19:53:18 <jwatt> CL: sure, but I was trying to leave that to CSS so as not to overlap or potentially conflict
19:54:28 <jwatt> CL: the thing the cut out from CSS was an @rule for color profiling
19:55:10 <ChrisL> <color>  cielab(<Lightness>, <a> <b>)
19:55:44 <jwatt> CL: I spent some time trying to figure out how you could do that with ICC color, but you can't really do it with the syntax
19:56:41 <ChrisL> so its much simpler
19:56:58 <jwatt> DS: I'm wondering if we can lowercase:
19:57:13 <ChrisL> ds: can we lowercase CIE-Lab | CIE-LCHab 
19:57:19 <shepazu> CIE-LCHab to cie-lchab, etc.
19:57:30 <ChrisL> ag: no, because that it the spelling people would expect
19:58:25 <ChrisL> Thats the way that industry spells it so we can't really change it
19:58:50 <jwatt> AG: I don't think it would worry people in the printing industry
19:59:23 <shepazu> I'm actually talking about making it case-insensitive, not lowercasing it per se
19:59:31 <shepazu> for use with CSS
19:59:46 <ChrisL> Is it ok to group color interpolation and stop color in one section, on gradients?
19:59:59 <ChrisL> the main use is gradients but it also affects compositing
20:01:02 <jwatt> DS: going back to case, are we going to be using this in CSS?
20:01:08 <ChrisL> could say thats the preferred spelling and its case insensitive
20:01:23 <ChrisL> ... in cass
20:01:57 <jwatt> CL: I made a few testcases as well
20:02:26 <jwatt> ...: if you have an rgb profile, do you use 0-1, 0%-100%, ...?
20:02:36 <jwatt> ... the spec doesn't say
20:02:40 <shepazu> test cases: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/color/test/svg/
20:03:33 <jwatt> ... it says it depends on the profile
20:04:05 <jwatt> ...: I think we should give some guidance here
20:06:53 <ChrisL> rgb() has 0..255 and 0% ... 100% so I prefer to stick with tat
20:07:02 <ChrisL> css does it that way
20:08:27 <jwatt> ED: we should definitely allow percentages
20:09:35 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/color/test/svg/paint-sRGB-004.svg
20:10:05 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/color/test/svg/paint-sRGB-002.svg
20:11:54 <ChrisL> fill="rgb(196,149,129)  icc-color(missing, 0.1,0.2,0.3)"
20:12:04 <ChrisL> thats the right syntax, yeah?
20:12:21 <ChrisL> 'missing' points to a non-existing profile
20:12:32 <ChrisL> <!--- this profile will not be found -->
20:12:32 <ChrisL> <color-profile name="missing" xlink:href="http://example.org/not-there/foo.icc"/>
20:13:04 <ChrisL> ag: its correct
20:19:12 <ChrisL> 'deviceColor'  element has waffly language about private namespaxces and stuff. i hate it.
20:20:12 <ChrisL> ... what you really want is to just use cmyk
20:20:36 <ChrisL> ag: what about hexachrome
20:20:47 <ChrisL> cl: good point but that shoud be color managed
20:21:21 <ChrisL> ag: and spot colors
20:21:44 <anthony> AG: E.g. CMYK and some pantone colour PMS 104
20:22:28 <jwatt> CL: the primary use case people want is unmanaged CMYK, and the spec is really unclear on that
20:24:28 <jwatt> ...I want to have something that says explicitly that profiles must be used
20:24:45 <jwatt> ...since Safari and Mozilla now support it
20:25:27 <jwatt> CL: I don't think it's a major use case to allow overriding of profiles
20:25:52 <jwatt> AG: if you have a whole bunch of images it's easier to not have to go and edit them all
20:26:08 <jwatt> CL: but it would encourage incorrect profiles
20:26:42 <jwatt> ...then again for small images you probably don't want to stick a 20k profile in lots of little images
20:26:54 <ChrisL> sorry this is taking up so much time, but thanks for the good comments
20:27:00 <jwatt> AG: code-wise it's not hard to do though
20:27:09 <jwatt> topic: compositing
20:28:01 <jwatt> AG: haven't addressed ED's concerns yet, but shouldn't be a big issue
20:29:15 <jwatt> DS: our webmaster is traveling, but once he's back at the end of the month we can publish again
20:37:36 <jwatt> [discussion of ED's comment]
20:37:53 <ChrisL> we should be able to get those comments adressed before the next publication
20:37:57 <jwatt> topic: Transforms module
20:38:24 <anthony> s/Transforms module/Vector Effects/
20:39:26 <jwatt> s/Vector Effects/Transforms module/
20:40:08 <jwatt> ED: we had some feedback from Dean, and he's joined the WG
20:40:13 <shepazu> discussion list for Transforms:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/ 
20:41:08 <anthony> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Mar/0344.html
20:41:40 <jwatt> DS: and there's been some feedback on our list
20:41:55 <jwatt> ... this is about transforms in general
20:42:01 <jwatt> ... not 3D
20:42:55 <shepazu> http://www.khronos.org/news/press/releases/khronos-launches-initiative-for-free-standard-for-accelerated-3d-on-web/
20:43:41 <jwatt> DS: about create a JS API
20:43:56 <jwatt> ... we should monitor it
20:45:23 <jwatt> DS: the new list should be focused and light traffic
20:45:36 <jwatt> ... focused on transforms, animation and transitions
20:45:48 <jwatt> ... features SVG and CSS are going to have in common going forward
20:46:19 <jwatt> ... we want to try and direct feedback on our spec on these issues to this list
20:47:45 <jwatt> ... the CSS WG will try and do the same
20:48:11 <jwatt> ... now that they've agreed to use a common list, and it's been created, we can publicize this
20:49:28 <jwatt> ED: the public can send email to this list
20:52:49 <jwatt> AG: I'd like to add back the perspective-origin property
20:53:23 <jwatt> ...I think the overall idea that CSS has for perspective transforms is useful
20:53:37 <jwatt> DS: should we be making two different specs?
20:53:57 <jwatt> ...or should both groups be making a joint spec?
20:54:11 <jwatt> ED: maybe we should have a joint telcon
20:56:01 <jwatt> DS: are the differences large enough to have two specs
20:56:31 <jwatt> CL: I'm not sure the groups will agree on syntax
20:57:35 <jwatt> DS: there's some very SVG specific text in our transforms module
20:57:46 <jwatt> ... but we could split that out
20:58:54 <jwatt> AG: that could just be an extension
21:00:22 <jwatt> DS: or we could have an abstract spec, and the two groups could have reference that in their own specs
21:00:44 <jwatt> CL: that might work
21:01:09 <jwatt> DS: implementers don't want to have to deal with two different ways of doing transforms
21:01:12 <jwatt> JW: indeed
21:02:47 <jwatt> AG: well we could even end up with four or five specs (if CSS split 2D and 3D, and if we did the same)
21:04:49 <jwatt> action: Doug to arrange a joint telcon
21:04:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2504 - Arrange a joint telcon [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-04-02].
21:09:39 <ed__> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0271.html
21:10:24 <Zakim> -Shepazu
21:10:26 <Zakim> -anthony
21:10:27 <ChrisL> zakim, list participants
21:10:27 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Shepazu, ed__, jwatt, ChrisL, anthony
21:10:30 <Zakim> -ed__
21:10:36 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
21:10:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
21:10:45 <ChrisL> (wait a bit for it to be generated)
21:11:10 <ChrisL> then lastly go to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-svg-minutes.html,text to get the text version
21:11:54 <Zakim> -ChrisL
21:11:59 <Zakim> -jwatt
21:12:00 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended
21:12:01 <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu, ed__, jwatt, ChrisL, anthony
22:26:57 <heycam> heycam has joined #svg
22:27:14 <heycam> apologies for missing the telcon; forgot to set my alarm
22:27:55 <anthony> at least you forgot to set your alarm. I set my alarm and was still 15 mins late :P
22:30:37 <heycam> :)
22:32:00 <anthony> so, heycam, we decided to stick the current telcon time
22:32:09 <anthony> until AU daylight saving changes over
22:32:22 <heycam> ok.  which is after next week?
22:32:22 <anthony> so looks like we'll still be setting our alarms for next week
22:32:26 <heycam> ok
22:32:38 <anthony> 5th April we drop daylight saving
22:32:41 <anthony> which is a Sun
22:33:26 <anthony> yes, so answer to your question after next week
22:33:32 <heycam> cool
22:40:50 <heycam> RRSAgent, quit
22:40:50 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'quit', heycam.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
22:40:53 <heycam> RRSAgent, bye
22:40:53 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-svg-actions.rdf :
22:40:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Doug to arrange a joint telcon [1]
22:40:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/26-svg-irc#T21-04-49