19:28:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra
19:28:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/24-ws-ra-irc
19:28:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:28:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ws-ra
19:28:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:28:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started
19:28:28 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:28:28 <trackbot> Date: 24 March 2009
19:28:34 <dug> dug has joined #ws-ra
19:28:40 <Zakim> + +1.408.970.aaaa
19:28:42 <Zakim> -Bob_Freund
19:28:44 <Zakim> +Bob_Freund
19:28:51 <fmaciel> zakim, aaaa is fmaciel
19:28:51 <Zakim> +fmaciel; got it
19:29:00 <Zakim> +Tom_Rutt
19:29:41 <Zakim> +Doug_Davis
19:30:03 <Katy> Katy has joined #ws-ra
19:30:20 <Zakim> + +91.98.49.99.aabb
19:30:43 <Bob> zakim, aabb is Sreed
19:30:43 <Zakim> +Sreed; got it
19:30:58 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ws-ra
19:31:09 <Zakim> + +0208234aacc
19:31:24 <Bob> zakim, aacc is katy
19:31:24 <Zakim> +katy; got it
19:31:42 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:31:43 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
19:31:49 <Vikas> Vikas has joined #ws-ra
19:32:03 <asir> asir has joined #ws-ra
19:32:13 <Bob> zakim [Micro is Asir
19:32:28 <Bob> zakim, [Micro is Asir
19:32:28 <Zakim> +Asir; got it
19:32:28 <TRutt> TRutt has joined #ws-ra
19:32:30 <Zakim> + +1.571.262.aadd
19:32:49 <Bob> zakim, vikas is aadd
19:32:49 <Zakim> sorry, Bob, I do not recognize a party named 'vikas'
19:32:56 <Zakim> + +1.408.642.aaee
19:33:04 <Bob> zakim, aadd is Vikas
19:33:04 <Zakim> +Vikas; got it
19:33:22 <Bob> zakim, aaee id Gilbert
19:33:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aaee id Gilbert', Bob
19:33:28 <Bob> zakim, aaee id Gilbert
19:33:28 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aaee id Gilbert', Bob
19:33:36 <Bob> zakim, aaee is Gilbert
19:33:36 <Zakim> +Gilbert; got it
19:34:04 <gpilz> gpilz has joined #ws-ra
19:34:10 <Sreed> Sreed has joined #ws-ra
19:34:10 <Bob> zaki,. Vikas holds Sumeet
19:34:21 <Bob> zakim, Vikas holds Sumeet
19:34:21 <Zakim> +Sumeet; got it
19:34:23 <Zakim> +??P14
19:34:34 <dug> anyone else hear static?
19:34:43 <asir> very minor
19:34:44 <gpilz> I do
19:34:50 <Sreed> I do
19:34:54 <Bob> zakim, P14 is Snelling
19:34:54 <Zakim> sorry, Bob, I do not recognize a party named 'P14'
19:35:06 <asir> probably only for folks on the east coast
19:35:10 <Bob> zakim, who is making noise?
19:35:21 <Zakim> Bob, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Freund (23%), Tom_Rutt (19%), Asir (46%)
19:35:52 <dug> that's a neat feature 
19:35:55 <asir> zakim, who is making noise?
19:35:59 <Bob> Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Mar/0115.html
19:36:06 <Zakim> asir, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Freund (70%), Asir (37%)
19:37:11 <Sumeet> Sumeet has joined #ws-ra
19:38:23 <DaveS> DaveS has joined #ws-ra
19:38:28 <fmaciel> Fred Maciel is scribe
19:38:29 <Bob> scribe: Fed Maciel
19:38:44 <Bob> scribenick: fmaciel
19:39:59 <fmaciel> Agenda approved with edits
19:40:22 <fmaciel> topic: approval of minutes
19:40:34 <fmaciel> No objections, minutes approved
19:41:06 <fmaciel> topic: bugzilla issues
19:42:22 <fmaciel> All new issues accepted and assigned to reporter, except for external editorial comment
19:42:31 <fmaciel> which will be assigned to Doug
19:42:37 <fmaciel> topic: infoset issues
19:43:33 <dug> asir, is your phone still close to the phone?
19:43:39 <dug> s/phone/iphone/
19:43:42 <asir> NO
19:43:48 <dug> zakim, who is making noise?
19:43:50 <asir> zakim, who is making noise?
19:44:00 <Zakim> dug, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Asir (32%)
19:44:11 <dug> I like this finger pointing thing  :-)
19:44:12 <Zakim> asir, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Freund (42%), Ashok_Malhotra (14%), Asir (42%)
19:44:32 <Zakim> -Asir
19:45:02 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:45:57 <fmaciel> No volunteers, will remain unassigned for now
19:46:17 <fmaciel> topic: issues with proposals
19:46:24 <fmaciel> topic: issue 6595
19:46:51 <Bob> proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Mar/0077.html
19:48:17 <asir> q+
19:48:26 <Bob> ack asir
19:49:40 <fmaciel> proposal (proposal #2, comment #4 in bugzilla) accepted
19:50:05 <fmaciel> topic: issue 6648
19:50:07 <dug> proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Mar/att-0076/00-part
19:53:13 <asir> q+
19:53:20 <Bob> ack asir
19:54:00 <Zakim> +Wu_Chou
19:54:24 <dug> q+
19:54:38 <Wu> Wu has joined #ws-ra
19:55:12 <DaveS> q+
19:55:16 <Bob> Asir: considers this to be a substantial change and he requests a migration strategy  but thinks the proposal reasonable
19:55:54 <Bob> ack dug
19:56:33 <gpilz> q+
19:56:59 <Katy> q+
19:57:25 <dug> katy - did we do that? I don't recall that
19:57:44 <Katy> The text is there but unchanged - awaiting this issue
19:57:54 <Bob> ack dave
19:58:07 <dug> ah - so just ws-eventing had it removed?
19:58:43 <Wu> Wu has joined #ws-ra
19:59:12 <Katy> I didn't remove it from any as the resolution said we'd not address this under the not and conventions issue
19:59:30 <Bob> ack gp
19:59:52 <asir> q+
20:00:48 <dug> s/must not/do not/
20:00:57 <Bob> ack katy
20:01:53 <dug> as an editor - I'm ok with that
20:02:05 <asir> q+ to talk about http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6587
20:02:26 <dug> +1 to katy - its just a copy-n-paste and makes it easier in the long run to have the specs look similar.
20:02:30 <Bob> ack asir
20:02:30 <Zakim> asir, you wanted to talk about http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6587
20:02:54 <dug> q+
20:03:33 <Bob> ack dug
20:03:34 <Katy> q+
20:04:06 <DaveS> Suggestion for fixing the language problem I am worried about: Senders MAY indicate the presence of an extension that has to be understood through the use of a corresponding SOAP Header with a soap:mustUnderstand attribute with the value �1�.
20:04:53 <Bob> ack katy
20:04:54 <gpilz> how about "an extension it requires to be understood"?
20:05:37 <dug> seems fine
20:05:43 <asir> what is the proposed editorial change to Gil's proposal
20:06:14 <Bob> proposed language :Suggestion for fixing the language problem I am worried about: Senders MAY indicate the presence of an extension that has to be understood through the use of a corresponding SOAP Header with a soap:mustUnderstand attribute with the value "1"
20:06:15 <gpilz> The elements defined in this specification MAY be extended at the points indicated by their outlines and schema. Implementations MAY add child elements and/or attributes at the indicated extension points but MUST NOT contradict the semantics of the parent and/or owner, respectively. If a receiver does not recognize an extension, the receiver SHOULD ignore that extension. Senders MAY indicate the presence of an extension that has to be understood through the use of
20:06:41 <dug> I'm missing the last part of Gil's - it got chopped off for me
20:06:57 <asir> q+ to ask a question
20:07:04 <gpilz> Senders MAY indicate the presence of an extension that has to be understood through the use of a corresponding SOAP Header with a soap:mustUnderstand attribute with the value “1”.
20:07:32 <Bob> ack asir
20:07:32 <Zakim> asir, you wanted to ask a question
20:08:19 <dug> although, we can probably say MUST NOT since the receiver MUST adhere to SOAP and mU=1 is part of SOAP.
20:09:09 <dug> q+
20:09:19 <dug> q-
20:09:32 <dug> never mind - I see Dave's point
20:09:34 <dug> q+
20:10:40 <Bob> Ack dug
20:12:29 <dug> that's fine - and let's apply it to all specs  :-)
20:12:45 <Bob> proposal: The elements defined in this specification MAY be extended at the points indicated by their outlines and schema. Implementations MAY add child elements and/or attributes at the indicated extension points but MUST NOT contradict the semantics of the parent and/or owner, respectively. If a receiver does not recognize an extension, the receiver SHOULD ignore that extension. Senders...
20:12:46 <Bob> ...MAY indicate the presence of an extension that has to be understood through the use of a corresponding SOAP Header with a soap:mustUnderstand attribute with the value “1”.
20:13:20 <fmaciel> Issue 6648 resolved with text above by Bob
20:14:06 <fmaciel> RESOLUTION: the text above shall be applied to all specifications
20:15:56 <fmaciel> topic: Issue 6691
20:16:13 <Bob> s/6691/6692
20:16:27 <asir> q+
20:17:24 <Wu> q+
20:17:30 <Bob> ack asir
20:18:12 <Bob> ack asir
20:18:43 <Bob> ack wu
20:19:13 <dug> q+
20:19:34 <DaveS> q+
20:20:10 <Bob> ack dug
20:20:46 <gpilz> q+
20:20:57 <Wu> q+
20:21:14 <Bob> ack dave
20:22:05 <Bob> ack gp
20:22:47 <asir> q+
20:23:28 <Bob> ack wu
20:23:39 <dug> q+
20:24:30 <DaveS> q+
20:24:58 <Bob> ack asir
20:25:31 <gpilz> q+
20:26:00 <gpilz> q-
20:26:07 <Bob> ack dug
20:26:21 <asir> How would you distinguish a NotifyTo EPR from a MakeConnection type EPR?
20:26:37 <gpilz> q+
20:26:45 <gpilz> you don't
20:26:52 <gpilz> that's the whole point of WS-MC
20:27:15 <dug> bob - I'd like to ask Wu a follow-on question
20:29:18 <Bob> ack dave
20:30:54 <asir> q+
20:31:16 <dug> I still don't see the diff between NotifyTo and ReplyTo and I think it would actually be a mistake to imply they're different
20:31:40 <Bob> ack gp
20:32:16 <DaveS> +1
20:32:18 <Bob> ack asir
20:32:41 <Zakim> -Sreed
20:33:31 <Wu> Wu has joined #ws-ra
20:33:39 <Zakim> + +984999aaff
20:33:46 <Wu> q+
20:33:58 <Bob> ack wu
20:34:04 <dug> q+
20:34:16 <asir> q+
20:34:17 <DaveS> q+
20:34:56 <Bob> ack dug
20:35:31 <DaveS> What Doug said
20:35:33 <DaveS> q-
20:37:58 <dug> ws-e doesn't mandate that PUSH mode is a one-way
20:38:06 <DaveS> But we still don't have a use case for any Mode other than push mode.
20:38:17 <dug> granted a Notification is a one-way but not PUSH mode
20:39:46 <dug> thank you bob
20:40:03 <gpilz> q+
20:40:33 <Bob> ack asir
20:40:39 <gpilz> q-
20:40:45 <gpilz> q+
20:40:56 <Bob> ack gp
20:41:01 <dug> its broken because we're adding confusion and duplicate semantics
20:43:01 <asir> q+ to ask a question
20:44:18 <fmaciel> straw poll on removing push mode from specification (accepting Dave's proposal): 
20:46:54 <asir> This is a non-binding strawpoll
20:47:13 <Bob> s/abstain/abstain preference poll (non-binding)
20:48:00 <asir> Wu and I mentioned that 6432 need to be resolved first
20:48:45 <gpilz> everyone else obviously disagrees
20:49:41 <dug> +1 to gil
20:49:47 <DaveS> +1
20:50:39 <asir> q+
20:52:01 <Bob> understand better why if the spec says exactly the same thing concerning the eventing mode, having a more
20:52:24 <Wu> q+
20:53:23 <DaveS> We ned to se use cases for Mode not equal to Push Mode to better understand whay it is needed.
20:57:34 <dug> Wu - you can never stop someone from putting a MCanonURI in the NotifyTo
20:58:32 <Bob> action: Wu and Asir We need to use use cases for Mode not equal to Push Mode to better understand why it is needed.
20:58:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-53 - And Asir We need to use use cases for Mode not equal to Push Mode to better understand why it is needed. [on wu chou - due 2009-03-31].
20:59:10 <Bob> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6725
20:59:29 <fmaciel> topic: external review issue 6725
21:00:44 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
21:00:46 <DaveS> bye
21:00:47 <fmaciel> postponed to next week
21:01:14 <Zakim> -Gilbert
21:01:16 <Zakim> - +984999aaff
21:01:18 <Zakim> -Vikas
21:01:19 <Zakim> -Bob_Freund
21:01:21 <Zakim> -Tom_Rutt
21:01:23 <fmaciel> Bob asked participants to review IRC for incomplete contents
21:01:24 <Zakim> -Wu_Chou
21:01:25 <Zakim> -??P14
21:01:35 <Zakim> -katy
21:01:40 <Zakim> -fmaciel
21:01:44 <Bob> rrsagent, generate minutes
21:01:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/24-ws-ra-minutes.html Bob
21:01:55 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:02:16 <Zakim> -Doug_Davis
21:02:18 <Zakim> WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended
21:02:20 <Zakim> Attendees were Bob_Freund, +1.408.970.aaaa, fmaciel, Tom_Rutt, Doug_Davis, +91.98.49.99.aabb, Sreed, +0208234aacc, katy, [Microsoft], Ashok_Malhotra, Asir, +1.571.262.aadd,
21:02:23 <Zakim> ... +1.408.642.aaee, Gilbert, Sumeet, Wu_Chou, +984999aaff
21:02:33 <gpilz> gpilz has left #ws-ra
21:39:50 <dug> dug has joined #ws-ra