IRC log of bpwg on 2009-03-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:27:12 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
13:27:12 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-irc
13:27:14 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:27:14 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #bpwg
13:27:16 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be BPWG
13:27:16 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:27:17 [trackbot]
Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:27:17 [trackbot]
Date: 17 March 2009
13:27:39 [francois]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Mar/0112.html
13:27:41 [francois]
Chair: jo
13:28:45 [francois]
Regrets: adam, abel, miguel, manrique
13:29:30 [jo]
zakim, code?
13:29:30 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
13:30:03 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has now started
13:30:10 [Zakim]
+ +0208995aaaa
13:30:21 [Zakim]
+francois
13:30:22 [jo]
zakim, aaaa is me
13:30:23 [Zakim]
+jo; got it
13:30:59 [Zakim]
+??P2
13:31:04 [tomhume]
zakim, ??P2 is me
13:31:04 [Zakim]
+tomhume; got it
13:31:33 [rob]
rob has joined #bpwg
13:32:18 [Zakim]
+Bryan_Sullivan
13:32:37 [Bryan]
Bryan has joined #bpwg
13:32:53 [Zakim]
+rob
13:34:22 [EdC]
EdC has joined #bpwg
13:34:34 [Zakim]
+??P6
13:34:41 [yeliz]
zakim, ??P6 is yeliz
13:34:41 [Zakim]
+yeliz; got it
13:35:07 [yeliz]
zakim, mute yeliz
13:35:07 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
13:35:10 [Zakim]
+dstorey
13:36:20 [jo]
ack tom
13:36:31 [francois]
Scribe: tomhume
13:36:34 [francois]
ScribeNick: tomhume
13:36:48 [tomhume]
Topic: F2F London 25-27 March
13:36:56 [francois]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Meetings/London3/logistics.html F2F agenda
13:37:40 [tomhume]
jo: Idea is to spend Wednesday on MWABP, Thursday on CT, tidying up on Friday
13:37:56 [tomhume]
... including tidying up remaining mobile accessibility issues, checker library, etc.
13:38:12 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
13:38:12 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
13:38:44 [tomhume]
yeliz: will be there on Friday
13:38:56 [yeliz]
zakim, mute yeliz
13:38:56 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
13:39:22 [tomhume]
jo: we have mobileOK scheme
13:39:34 [tomhume]
francois: not heard from Rigo, hope to have something by the F2F
13:39:44 [dom]
Regrets+ Dom
13:39:48 [tomhume]
jo: need to ping Korean folks for a written update
13:39:52 [EdC]
three questions about the agenda: (1) are the times indicated local UK time? (2) any detailed schedule? (3) numbers for teleconference?
13:40:51 [tomhume]
bryan: I shan't be there in person, conf call bridge would be good.
13:41:17 [jo]
ACTION: JO to talk to Adam about getting a conf bridge set up for f2f
13:41:17 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-915 - Talk to Adam about getting a conf bridge set up for f2f [on Jo Rabin - due 2009-03-24].
13:41:39 [tomhume]
francois: will ping Rigo
13:42:08 [EdC]
q+
13:42:26 [jo]
ack ed
13:42:36 [tomhume]
jo: times of the agenda are in GMT
13:43:04 [jo]
zakim, who is making noise?
13:43:06 [Zakim]
-yeliz
13:43:16 [Zakim]
jo, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: jo (30%), francois (47%)
13:43:29 [SeanP]
SeanP has joined #bpwg
13:43:38 [Zakim]
-francois
13:44:29 [Zakim]
+SeanP
13:44:35 [tomhume]
Topic: mobileOK Checker - discussion of file: scheme URIs
13:45:18 [Zakim]
+francois
13:45:26 [tomhume]
jo: Adam's issued 2 new drafts for MWABP
13:46:09 [Zakim]
+??P8
13:46:14 [yeliz]
zakim, ??P8 is yeliz
13:46:14 [Zakim]
+yeliz; got it
13:46:25 [yeliz]
zakim, mute yeliz
13:46:25 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
13:46:28 [jo]
zakim, mute yeliz
13:46:28 [Zakim]
yeliz was already muted, jo
13:47:14 [tomhume]
francois: the mobileOK checker libraries only apply to HTTP/HTTPS URI schemes. There could be a useful use case where you want to run tests on a file. Most web content is local before it's published.
13:47:28 [yeliz]
sorry about the echo, it seems like there is something wrong with my connection today :(
13:47:46 [tomhume]
...you might want to check it before you publish it. Some of the tests do not mean anything outside of HTTP(S), some do and are useful - e.g. page size
13:49:00 [tomhume]
...Yeliz can probably talk about it, I wanted to update the checker library and add the possibility to check files. We've discussed a little on the checker mailing lists and have some ideas for how to add support for file:// URIs. It would mean that the library contains code that is not defined in the standard, in particular an additional test outcome ("CANNOTTELL")
13:49:45 [tomhume]
...but it's not mobileOK if it's not in the standard, as Jo has pointed out. The Java library is supposed to be a reference implementation of the standard, so I don't know if we can extend it with something outside of the standard.
13:50:22 [tomhume]
...We wanted to get the WGs opinion. Do we need to duplicate the code and work on a separate version of the library? Or can we incorporate the changes and add file:// scheme support to the library?
13:50:37 [Bryan]
q+ why not run a local server (http://localhost) instead - this is easy?
13:50:38 [tomhume]
... We might want to issue another document explaining how to test file://
13:51:04 [Bryan]
q+ to why not run a local server (http://localhost) instead - this is easy?
13:51:07 [EdC]
Can you parameterize the library with a switch for "standard mobileOK" and "development mode"? Via a configuration file, for instance?
13:51:44 [tomhume]
... I think it's useful for us to go ahead with this. Abel proposed to write the WG Note. I'm not sure we need to do this.
13:51:52 [tomhume]
jo: I agree
13:51:56 [jo]
ack b
13:51:57 [Zakim]
Bryan, you wanted to why not run a local server (http://localhost) instead - this is easy?
13:52:27 [tomhume]
bryan: a consistent scheme is a good idea. All you can do with file:// is check a static page, which isn't very common in terms of real live applications
13:52:48 [tomhume]
jo: the point about mobileOK is that it tests the operation of your server when serving content - i.e. in the real world.
13:52:56 [tomhume]
bryan: that's my point
13:53:04 [jo]
ack yeli
13:53:07 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
13:53:07 [Zakim]
yeliz was not muted, yeliz
13:54:15 [tomhume]
yeliz: we want to combine the mobileOK library with another for validating documents. It would be good to use some of the mobileOK tests with local files. This could be used for other people (e.g. designers) wanting to check documents before they upload them. e.g. the HTML validator lets you upload and validate a doc.
13:54:49 [tomhume]
... you can't do all the tests, but a CANNOTTELL would accommodate this.
13:55:18 [jo]
zakim, mute yeliz
13:55:18 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
13:55:46 [jo]
ack y
13:56:15 [jo]
zakim, mute yeliz
13:56:15 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
13:56:24 [yeliz]
sorry about the echo:(
13:56:54 [Zakim]
-tomhume
13:56:57 [francois]
q+
13:57:30 [EdC]
question: is the file:// scheme used in some Web applications to access the local storage?
13:57:38 [jo]
jo: wondering if there is a way of leaving the reference implementation intact and dealing with file: scheme by subclassing?
13:58:05 [Zakim]
+??P11
13:58:38 [jo]
zakim, ??p11 is tomhume
13:58:38 [Zakim]
+tomhume; got it
13:58:40 [Bryan]
fyi I have to go on IRC only for the next hour - will be back asap
13:59:18 [tomhume]
tomhume has joined #bpwg
13:59:29 [jo]
ack f
14:00:13 [tomhume]
francois: I had the same idea - we could do this without altering the ref. implementation. There are a couple of things we can do, but it can't be done completely by subclassing.
14:00:39 [EdC]
question: is the file:// scheme used in some Web applications to access the local storage? If yes, shouldn't the scheme be dealt with in the test harness?
14:00:44 [tomhume]
...I would like to keep the ref. implementation clean
14:00:52 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Sullivan
14:01:30 [tomhume]
ed: if file:/// is used by web applications, the harness should handle it surely?
14:01:45 [tomhume]
jo: mobileOK only tests http(s) URIs
14:03:36 [jo]
ACTION: daoust to prepare some material for F2F identifying what changes would be needed to the mobileOK checker to allow subclassing for file: scheme handling
14:03:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-916 - Prepare some material for F2F identifying what changes would be needed to the mobileOK checker to allow subclassing for file: scheme handling [on Fran├žois Daoust - due 2009-03-24].
14:04:11 [tomhume]
jo: if XXXX would like to write a note, we'd be happy for them to do it
14:04:29 [jo]
s/XXXX/Miguel and Nacho/
14:04:30 [tomhume]
francois: maybe we should make sure they're not working on something we might abandon first...
14:04:48 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
14:04:48 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:04:58 [francois]
s/Miguel and Nacho/Abel, Miguel and Nacho/
14:05:11 [tomhume]
yeliz: what's involved in writing a note about this?
14:05:19 [jo]
zakim, mute yeliz
14:05:19 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:05:33 [EdC]
14:05:46 [tomhume]
jo: the idea would be to write a WG Note (informative doc, not recommendation) pointing out the differences in the tests
14:06:04 [yeliz]
yes, thanks
14:06:06 [yeliz]
:)
14:06:20 [tomhume]
Topic: CT Guidelines New Version
14:06:43 [tomhume]
jo: new version posted on Friday 13th. Francois has noted some typos - thankyou - and there are lots of outstanding issues, which I've yet to post.
14:06:44 [francois]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2009Mar/0103.html CT announcement by Jo
14:06:53 [tomhume]
... these will hopefully get out today/soon
14:07:11 [tomhume]
... unless anyone has anything to say about this now, we should defer til next week
14:07:29 [tomhume]
... (at the F2F). Sean, Rob? You may want to comment on HTTPS link rewriting or link rewriting
14:07:31 [SeanP]
q+
14:07:40 [jo]
ack s
14:07:42 [tomhume]
rob: happy to keep that for the list
14:07:48 [tomhume]
seanP: I need to look it over a bit
14:08:40 [tomhume]
jo: hoping to resolve this issue (the main outstanding one, tho there are others we need to go back on, in particular Eduardo's point re changing/replacing headers)
14:08:53 [tomhume]
ed: happy to deal with this and the other topics next week
14:09:01 [francois]
[I note I'll have a bit to report on X-Device-headers next week based on a discussion with IETF]
14:10:33 [jsmanrique]
jsmanrique has joined #bpwg
14:11:29 [tomhume]
francois: are you thinking we misunderstood what a document reference is?
14:11:47 [francois]
s/document reference/same-document reference
14:11:48 [tomhume]
jo: either I've misunderstood what they mean or it doesn't quite work
14:12:27 [tomhume]
Topic: BP Addendum - Next Steps
14:12:31 [jeffs]
jeffs has joined #bpwg
14:12:36 [tomhume]
jo: the poll said no-one was happy for it to advance to a WG Note
14:13:07 [tomhume]
... so there's more work to do. Kai's not on the call today. I've scheduled half a days editorial session on this on Friday pm
14:13:15 [tomhume]
... we need to check Kai will be there for that
14:13:58 [Zakim]
+??P55
14:14:14 [jeffs]
zakim, P55 is jeffs
14:14:14 [Zakim]
sorry, jeffs, I do not recognize a party named 'P55'
14:14:26 [tomhume]
jo: the November questionnaire hasn't been answered much
14:14:28 [francois]
q+
14:14:30 [jeffs]
zakim, ??P55 is jeffs
14:14:30 [Zakim]
+jeffs; got it
14:14:39 [jo]
ack f
14:14:41 [tomhume]
francois: we only have 1 day left to answer the poll
14:14:49 [Bryan]
jo, post the questionairre link please
14:15:07 [tomhume]
jo: wondering if more folks can attend the F2F if it's not in San Diego
14:15:29 [Bryan]
I prefer San Diego!
14:15:31 [tomhume]
... can we reopen this questionnaire with the additional answer "I could attend if it's elsewhere"
14:15:56 [Zakim]
+berrueta
14:15:57 [EdC]
"if it's elsewhere" is really a bit vague. Most answers will be "I do not know"...
14:16:22 [jo]
q+
14:16:34 [jo]
ack jo
14:17:03 [tomhume]
jo: if we're to extend the charter we need another F2F. It'll either need to be there, or somewhere else.
14:19:05 [jo]
action: daoust to extend the TPAC Noc Questionnaire and add a question to assess whether the meeting would be better attended if it was held somewhere else
14:19:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-917 - Extend the TPAC Noc Questionnaire and add a question to assess whether the meeting would be better attended if it was held somewhere else [on Fran├žois Daoust - due 2009-03-24].
14:19:36 [tomhume]
jo: there won't be a call next Tuesday because of the F2F and we don't usually have calls post-F2F unless someone wants one. So no call on 31.03
14:19:58 [EdC]
You mean 7th of April...
14:20:03 [tomhume]
... We will be back to normal time for everyone on 7 April.
14:20:17 [tomhume]
Topic: AOB
14:20:44 [Bryan]
jo, can you post the questionairre link, I can't find it on the BPWG homepage
14:20:47 [Zakim]
-jo
14:20:48 [Zakim]
-SeanP
14:20:48 [Zakim]
-tomhume
14:20:48 [jeffs]
bye
14:20:49 [Zakim]
-rob
14:20:53 [Zakim]
-francois
14:20:53 [jeffs]
quit
14:20:54 [rob]
rob has left #bpwg
14:20:55 [Zakim]
-yeliz
14:20:56 [Zakim]
-jsmanrique
14:20:59 [Bryan]
oh well
14:21:00 [Zakim]
-jeffs
14:21:02 [jsmanrique]
bye
14:21:18 [Zakim]
-dstorey
14:21:20 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has ended
14:21:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were +0208995aaaa, francois, jo, tomhume, Bryan_Sullivan, rob, yeliz, dstorey, SeanP, jeffs, jsmanrique
14:21:22 [francois]
and will update the WG home page to link to it, yes.
14:21:57 [francois]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:21:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-minutes.html francois
14:34:09 [Sangwhan_Moon]
Sangwhan_Moon has joined #bpwg
14:40:26 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has now started
14:40:33 [Zakim]
+Kai_Dietrich
14:42:20 [Zakim]
-Kai_Dietrich
14:42:21 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has ended
14:42:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were Kai_Dietrich
14:42:55 [Sangwhan_Moon]
Sangwhan_Moon has left #bpwg
15:01:03 [francois]
RRSAgent, bye
15:01:03 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-actions.rdf :
15:01:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JO to talk to Adam about getting a conf bridge set up for f2f [1]
15:01:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-irc#T13-41-17
15:01:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: daoust to prepare some material for F2F identifying what changes would be needed to the mobileOK checker to allow subclassing for file: scheme handling [2]
15:01:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-irc#T14-03-36
15:01:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: daoust to extend the TPAC Noc Questionnaire and add a question to assess whether the meeting would be better attended if it was held somewhere else [3]
15:01:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-bpwg-irc#T14-19-05
15:01:06 [francois]
Zakim, bye
15:01:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #bpwg