19:30:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:30:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-irc
19:30:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:30:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:30:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
19:30:26 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:30:27 <trackbot> Date: 12 March 2009
19:30:29 <shepazu> zakim, pick a victim
19:30:29 <Zakim> sorry, shepazu, I don't know what conference this is
19:30:36 <shepazu> zakim, this is SVG
19:30:36 <Zakim> shepazu, I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be SVG".
19:30:49 <shepazu> Zakim, this will be SVG
19:30:49 <Zakim> ok, shepazu; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
19:31:03 <shepazu> Zakim, pick a victim
19:31:03 <Zakim> sorry, shepazu, I don't know what conference this is
19:31:11 <shepazu> sigh
19:31:20 <shepazu> zakim, call shepazu 
19:31:20 <Zakim> ok, shepazu; the call is being made
19:31:22 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
19:31:22 <Zakim> +Shepazu
19:31:42 <shepazu> Zakim, pick a victim
19:31:42 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:31:53 <shepazu> Zakim, pick a victim
19:31:53 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:31:55 <shepazu> Zakim, pick a victim
19:31:55 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:31:57 <shepazu> Zakim, pick a victim
19:31:57 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:32:26 <Zakim> +??P5
19:32:36 <Zakim> +??P6
19:32:42 <ed__> Zakim, ??P5 is me
19:32:42 <Zakim> +ed__; got it
19:32:45 <anthony> Zakim, ??P6 is me
19:32:45 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
19:32:47 <shepazu> Zakim, pick a victim
19:32:47 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:32:52 <shepazu> Zakim, pick a victim
19:32:52 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose anthony
19:33:35 <shepazu> Zakim, pick a victim
19:33:35 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose anthony
19:34:39 <ed__> Zakim, who's here?
19:34:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shepazu, ed__, anthony
19:34:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ed__, heycam, shepazu, jwatt, anthony, trackbot, ed_work
19:35:19 <Zakim> +??P7
19:35:24 <heycam> Zakim, ??P7 is me
19:35:24 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
19:46:16 <ed__> Zakim, pick a victim
19:46:16 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:46:57 <heycam> Chair: Erik
19:47:00 <heycam> Scribe: Cameron
19:47:03 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
19:47:04 <heycam> ScribeNick: heycam
19:47:06 <ed__> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0230.html
19:47:45 <heycam> Topic: SVG in text/html
19:47:59 <Zakim> +ChrisL
19:48:22 <heycam> DS: it is now on the SVG WG to propose specific wording to go in to the HTML 5 spec
19:48:47 <heycam> ... this would be replacement text for the currently commented out text
19:50:12 <heycam> ED: what's the timeframe?
19:50:14 <heycam> DS: i said 2 weeks
19:50:46 <heycam> ... rubys said there didn't seem to be too much of a hurry, since conversation is progressing on the mailing lists
19:51:11 <heycam> ED: i don't know about the list of element case fixups
19:51:28 <heycam> ... probably would be a good idea to require implementations to know about SVG 1.1 and 1.2T elements
19:51:38 <heycam> DS: that seems to be what hsivonen was suggesting after the telcon
19:51:44 <heycam> ... which is a reasonable compromise
19:52:02 <heycam> ED: so, not to restrict future elements, but at least requiring those ones to be supported
19:52:32 <heycam> ... how should we write this up?
19:53:54 <heycam> DS: just as a sequence of "Replace [blah blah] with [foo foo]"
19:54:20 <heycam> ... last time we had multiple proposals that we folded in, and that seemed to cause confusion
19:54:36 <heycam> ... i think we should keep it simple this time
19:55:17 <heycam> CM: we should come out with an email of the form "Replace [blah blah] with [foo foo]" in the end, but we can draft it on the wiki
19:55:49 <heycam> CM: somebody should take the existing text and put in on the wiki
19:55:58 <heycam> DS: i can do that
19:56:19 <heycam> ACTION: Doug to take the existing commented out SVG in text/html spec text and put it in the wiki
19:56:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2490 - Take the existing commented out SVG in text/html spec text and put it in the wiki [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-03-19].
19:59:36 <heycam> Topic: Transforms module
19:59:54 <heycam> ED: there were some discussions on the list
19:59:57 <ed__> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0225.html
20:00:00 <heycam> ... have dino's comments been dealt with?
20:00:36 <heycam> AG: dean sent a list of things of things he'd like to see in our spec, we can put those in as notes
20:00:58 <heycam> ... i've put in some, but i'll need to check if they've covered everything that's mentioned
20:01:56 <heycam> ... maybe we should put a chapter at the beginning about the rendering model
20:02:10 <heycam> ... in that section, we'd describe how the rendering happens
20:02:35 <heycam> ... elaborate on the note in the introduction, and explain what happens when you have filters/compositing/clipping interacting with perspective/3d transforms
20:02:53 <heycam> ... e.g. explain what order they occur in (transform then filter, or vice versa)
20:02:55 <anthony> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/transforms/SVGTransforms.html
20:03:08 <heycam> ... in the intro so far, the last paragraph has a bit about the rendering model
20:04:20 <heycam> ... that look ok?
20:04:22 <heycam> CM: looks ok to me
20:04:27 <heycam> DS: and me.  it begins to address the issue.
20:04:45 <ChrisL> zakim, mute me
20:04:45 <Zakim> ChrisL should now be muted
20:04:49 <heycam> AG: should i put in this additional Rendering section?
20:04:52 <heycam> ED: sounds like a good idea
20:05:09 <heycam> ... having a note in there for now would be fine
20:06:34 <heycam> DS: we should schedule a call with emmons to discuss layeredG
20:07:28 <heycam> AG: i'm in favour of a property rather than an element
20:07:33 <heycam> ED: me too
20:07:46 <heycam> DS: and me.  the functionality would be the same though; we should still discuss it with andrew.
20:08:12 <heycam> AG: i have an action to propose wording
20:08:29 <heycam> DS: you can start putting in wording about shifting things around in the rendering tree
20:08:37 <anthony> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2482
20:08:39 <heycam> ... then andrew can talk with us about implementation experience
20:09:24 <heycam> AG: should i fold some use cases & requirements in to that document for z-index?
20:09:48 <heycam> DS: yes, cover the 3d case
20:10:01 <heycam> ... but also say that it could be reused for 2d z-index
20:11:46 <heycam> ... are we planning on making the 3d transforms completely its own spec... what does is it a diff from?
20:11:57 <heycam> ... are the transforms in 1.2T exactly the same as those in 1.1?
20:12:22 <heycam> AG: the only thing different is the ability to specify an offset
20:12:26 <heycam> ED: there is the ref() transform thing yes
20:12:50 <heycam> DS: so i think we should make transforms be the single place to define it
20:13:06 <heycam> AG: a chapter in core?
20:13:38 <heycam> DS: we don't want people wondering if it applies to 1.1 or 1.2T separately
20:14:24 <heycam> ED: we still need some coordination with the CSS WG
20:14:56 <heycam> DS: we could split into two specs, 2d transforms and 3d transforms
20:15:10 <heycam> ... but i don't see why we'd want to do that
20:17:40 <heycam> ED: i wonder if 2d transforms could be part of core instead of being a separate spec
20:21:27 <heycam> ACTION: Anthony to note Dean's issues about the rendering model, compat with OpenVG, etc. in the Transforms spec
20:21:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2491 - Note Dean's issues about the rendering model, compat with OpenVG, etc. in the Transforms spec [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-03-19].
20:22:10 <heycam> RESOLUTION: We will publish Tranforms once ACTION-2491 is complete
20:23:38 <Zakim> -ChrisL
20:28:27 <heycam> Topic: Vector effects
20:28:39 <Zakim> +Chris
20:29:34 <Zakim> -Chris
20:30:10 <heycam> ED: any edits been made?
20:30:14 <heycam> ED: not since february, it seems
20:30:23 <heycam> ... do we need to discuss these comments?
20:30:29 <heycam> ... we should wait for chris i guess
20:31:16 <heycam> Topic: Compositing
20:31:33 <ed__> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html
20:31:57 <heycam> ED: there were some comments.  have you had a chance to make edits?
20:31:59 <heycam> AG: nto yet
20:32:01 <heycam> s/nto/not/
20:32:15 <heycam> ... i think you're right saying that "group image canvas" isn't defined anywhere
20:32:27 <heycam> ... should i just put in what the term means, or what sort of wording?
20:32:36 <heycam> ED: some sort of definition of what it means
20:32:55 <heycam> ... i suppose it's like the "temporary canvas" (or whatever) from SVG 1.1
20:33:06 <heycam> AG: put that in the intro, or the rendering model section?
20:33:18 <heycam> ED: might be good to collect all the definitions at the beginning somewhere
20:33:31 <heycam> AG: with the percentage background, that's a separate alpha channel, so i'll add a definition for that as well
20:33:41 <heycam> ED: wasn't sure if that contained colours or just the alpha
20:33:52 <heycam> AG: i'll put a definition in for that as well
20:34:13 <heycam> ... for comment #2, i think the reason we did the equations that way was they were already that way to begin with
20:34:19 <heycam> ... so i didn't bother updating them to MathML
20:34:34 <heycam> ... for the first draft, is it ok to leave the equations like that?  and put in MathML later?
20:34:49 <heycam> ED: yes.  you might want to replace the dots with a proper multiplication sign.
20:36:45 <heycam> ... having links to definitions would be handy, since the equations are spread out over the spec
20:36:54 <heycam> AG: yep
20:40:00 <heycam> ACTION: Anthony to address Erik's Compositing comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html
20:40:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2492 - Address Erik's Compositing comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-03-19].
20:40:26 <anthony> ISSUE-2095?
20:40:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-2095 -- Algorithm for soft-light blend mode -- RAISED
20:40:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2095
20:40:37 <anthony> ACTION-2427?
20:40:37 <trackbot> ACTION-2427 -- Anthony Grasso to use the formulae from ISSUE-2095 to update the Compositing module -- due 2009-02-05 -- OPEN
20:40:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2427
20:41:05 <heycam> AG: those can probably be closed, though i haven't tested them
20:41:29 <heycam> ... the equations from benjamin came from the pdf spec too
20:42:01 <heycam> ... he said he'd post the correct equations from the iso spec
20:42:42 <heycam> DS: if we don't have them in our spec, then they're not royalty free
20:42:54 <heycam> ... we can't make a normative reference
20:48:51 <heycam> ED: we could publish the original equations with notes to say that they might not be compatible with ISO/PDF
21:02:47 <Zakim> -heycam
21:03:19 <Zakim> -ed__
21:15:33 <Zakim> -anthony
21:15:44 <Zakim> -Shepazu
21:15:45 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended
21:15:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu, ed__, anthony, heycam, ChrisL, Chris
21:22:18 <heycam> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:22:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-minutes.html heycam
21:23:29 <heycam> RRSAgent, bye
21:23:29 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-actions.rdf :
21:23:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Doug to take the existing commented out SVG in text/html spec text and put it in the wiki [1]
21:23:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-irc#T19-56-19
21:23:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Anthony to note Dean's issues about the rendering model, compat with OpenVG, etc. in the Transforms spec [2]
21:23:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-irc#T20-21-27
21:23:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Anthony to address Erik's Compositing comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0229.html [3]
21:23:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/12-svg-irc#T20-40-00
21:23:31 <heycam> Zakim, bye
21:23:31 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg