11:52:46 RRSAgent has joined #mediaann 11:52:46 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc 11:53:40 Scribe:Thierry 11:54:32 Chair: Joakim 11:55:24 pchampin has joined #mediaann 11:55:39 Regrets: Tobias 11:56:12 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0023.html 11:56:28 raphael has joined #mediaann 11:57:23 Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html 11:57:36 hello raphael 11:58:26 Chris_IBBT has joined #mediaann 11:59:27 veroniqueM has joined #mediaann 12:00:14 daniel has joined #mediaann 12:02:09 trackbot, start teleco 12:02:09 Sorry, raphael, I don't understand 'trackbot, start teleco'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 12:02:13 trackbot, start telecon 12:02:15 RRSAgent, make logs public 12:02:17 Zakim, this will be MAWG 12:02:17 ok, trackbot, I see IA_MAWG()8:00AM already started 12:02:18 Meeting: Media Annotations Working Group Teleconference 12:02:18 Date: 10 March 2009 12:02:31 -[CWI] 12:03:12 +[CWI] 12:03:17 Regrets: Tobias, michele 12:03:19 Zakim, who is here? 12:03:19 On the phone I see Thierry, ??P1, +95177aaaa, [VrijeUni], +41.22.717.aabb, [CWI] 12:03:21 On IRC I see daniel, veroniqueM, Chris_IBBT, raphael, pchampin, RRSAgent, Zakim, tmichel, trackbot 12:03:28 zakim, [CWI] is me 12:03:28 +raphael; got it 12:03:52 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0023.html 12:04:18 zakim, ??P1 is me 12:04:18 +Chris_IBBT; got it 12:04:44 this call starts ? 12:05:21 hope Joakim will join to chair this meeting 12:05:55 Zakim, who is talking? 12:06:06 Zakim, who is here? 12:06:06 On the phone I see Thierry, Chris_IBBT, pchampin, [VrijeUni], +41.22.717.aabb, raphael (muted) 12:06:09 On IRC I see daniel, veroniqueM, Chris_IBBT, raphael, pchampin, RRSAgent, Zakim, tmichel, trackbot 12:06:12 tmichel, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: pchampin (29%), +41.22.717.aabb (17%) 12:07:00 hopefully Joakim did not forget the different starting time of the phone conference 12:07:11 oh, call information sent from Joakim has the same timezone (not applying one-hour earlier). I am now traveling, hence can't make a phone call. 12:07:43 veroniqueM has joined #mediaann 12:07:46 It maybe that some people have forgotten about the time slot change for this call 12:07:46 -[VrijeUni] 12:08:31 Should we proceed ? Do we have a quorum ? 12:08:31 chairs, tema contact: what's happened with this call? 12:08:46 presumably, we will start after one-hour with Joamik charing. sorry for inconvenience and thanks your patient... 12:09:17 Joakim sent an agenda and was schedulled to Chair. I was scheduled to scribe ... 12:09:40 The agenda said: Tuesday, 10 March 13:00-14:00 UTC 12:10:12 zakim, who is here? 12:10:12 On the phone I see Thierry, Chris_IBBT, pchampin (muted), +41.22.717.aabb, raphael (muted) 12:10:14 On IRC I see veroniqueM, daniel, Chris_IBBT, raphael, pchampin, RRSAgent, Zakim, tmichel, trackbot 12:10:29 zakim, unmute me 12:10:29 raphael should no longer be muted 12:10:52 we do it in french? 12:11:27 veronique, the telecon was messy, restart again 12:11:30 -Chris_IBBT 12:11:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael 12:12:05 zakim, unmute me 12:12:05 pchampin should no longer be muted 12:12:06 so sorry...this is a chairs' mistake. if ok, we will be able to resume this call after 50 minutes. is that ok for all of you ? 12:12:22 daniel, we cannot, since Zakim is not booked! 12:13:04 um...ok, Thierry can you be charing this call instead of Joakim ? 12:13:25 +??P1 12:13:45 do we want to cancel 12:13:47 Present: Jean Pierre, Thierry, Pierre Antoine, Chris, Raphael, Daniel (irc), Veronique (irc) 12:14:03 zakim, ??P1 is me 12:14:03 +Chris_IBBT; got it 12:14:08 zakim, mute me 12:14:08 pchampin should now be muted 12:14:09 topic: Agenda review and approval of previous minutes telecon 03 March 2009 12:14:20 minutes accepted, no objections 12:14:20 Propose to accept: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html as 12:14:20 minutes of the last meeting, thanks to Veronique for scribing. 12:14:43 Scribe: raphael 12:14:44 I can scribe 12:14:47 scribenick: raphael 12:14:58 Scribe for next week: Thierry volunteers 12:15:10 Topic: Action Items 12:15:25 Felix: ACTION-43: continue 12:15:48 zakim, unmute me 12:15:48 pchampin should no longer be muted 12:15:59 All actions: 47, 54, 80, 82 continue 12:16:12 Pierre Antoine: ACTION-83 12:16:19 ... the action is not completed 12:16:48 + +03120598aacc 12:16:50 ... I thought that the review of the standards will be done in small group and thus the action would have been cancelled 12:17:02 zakim, aaccc is veroniqueM 12:17:02 sorry, raphael, I do not recognize a party named 'aaccc' 12:17:04 zakim, aacc is veroniqueM 12:17:04 +veroniqueM; got it 12:17:12 close ACTION-83 12:17:12 ACTION-83 Review ID3 closed 12:17:33 The remaining actions: 85, 86, 87 are still pending 12:17:35 zakim, mute me 12:17:35 pchampin should now be muted 12:18:16 Topic: mapping of formats 12:18:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael 12:18:39 Thierry: how will we going to publish this table in our new document? 12:19:22 Raphael: is there any action to actually review this table? 12:19:39 Thierry: no, we will make small group of 2-3 people for reviewing part of this table 12:19:56 ... should we design groups and assign formats to these groups ? 12:20:12 Veronique: I thought we will discuss that during the face to face meeting 12:20:21 Raphael: +1 for Veronique's suggestion 12:20:53 Thierry: yes, but we should as well have some material prior to the f2f 12:20:57 this small group will be made by toy implementation volunteers and chairs...so toss it (reviewing the mapping table) to chairs this time 12:21:52 Jean Pierre: we need experts of these formats to actually do the mapping, I will not dare to say something on formats I don't know 12:22:12 Thierry: should we ask people to attach their name on specific format? 12:22:15 Jean Pierre: yes 12:22:21 +1 12:22:24 +1 12:22:42 Thierry: and then use a first come first serve principle 12:23:04 Jean Pierre: the maker of the mapping for each specific format should be in 12:23:08 +1 12:23:59 ACTION: Thierry to provide the list of all formats considered in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping, leading each sub-group 12:23:59 Created ACTION-89 - Provide the list of all formats considered in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping, leading each sub-group [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-03-17]. 12:24:12 ACTION: ALL to join these sub-groups 12:24:12 Sorry, couldn't find user - ALL 12:26:01 Raphael: why do you want to publish this table before the f2f? 12:26:27 Veronique: in order to get comments from a wider community 12:26:47 Thierry: it will be difficult to publish this table in the TR space because of pubrules 12:29:32 Raphael: my suggestion would be to produce a document that contains excerpts of the table and graphical representation of the mappings 12:29:48 ... but requires a lot of work, not sure you can make it in 2 weeks 12:30:11 Veronique: graphical representation might be unreadable 12:31:09 Raphael: yes, thus split this table depending on group of properties 12:32:19 zakim, unmute me 12:32:19 pchampin should no longer be muted 12:32:39 Veronique: we want a validation of these mappings from the communiy depending on the usage of the properties 12:32:59 Raphael: then you need a lot of text explaining the rational behind each mappings 12:33:26 Pierre Antoine: the current table has XMP as a pivot format 12:34:19 ... split the table in plenty of tables with always XMP as reference 12:36:22 Raphael: problem with that is that you remove a lot of value of the global view of the table 12:37:06 wonsuk has joined #mediaann 12:37:34 Thierry: but assuming we do not publish anything by the f2f, what can we expect afterwards 12:38:06 Veronique: the transitivity of the mappings is also in question, we need to discuss it during the f2f 12:38:23 +1 Veronique 12:38:30 +1 veronique 12:38:49 Thierry: what I hear here, is that we should wait for after the f2f to go publishing a document 12:38:53 +1 12:38:54 +1 12:39:35 Raphael: and explain carefully the rationale of each mapping, the type of the mapping (equivalent, sub-property, related to, unspecified), the transitivity 12:39:37 + +82.10.58.00.aadd 12:40:00 Thierry: do we have a quorum for taking a resolution 12:40:11 Raphael: i think we are not enough, can make an informal poll 12:40:40 Chris: we should listen to the arguments of Felix that wanted to publish the table asap 12:40:50 Present+: wonsuk (partial) 12:41:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael 12:41:41 Thierry: ok, this is not a formal resolution (no quorum), but I note that the people present on the call want to delay the publication of the table 12:42:06 Toppic: survey of mapping formats 12:42:14 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42786/Annot-format-survey/results 12:43:23 12 responders on 26 people! 12:43:39 q+ 12:44:51 Thierry: commenting the results received so far, see also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0030.html 12:46:33 Raphael: I would like to raise a serious concern! I see only 12 responders on 26, among the non-responders, there are active participants ! I observe also that Dave Singer (from Apple) has raised concern on the poll itself and did not provide answers :-( 12:46:38 zakim, ack me 12:46:38 I see no one on the speaker queue 12:49:53 Chris: i can ask other IBBT guys to answer as well 12:49:59 Veronique: I have no real preferences 12:50:13 Thierry: I'm a team contact, so I cannot answer 12:50:23 Daniel: why did you do not answer? 12:51:00 Others: seem to not be active participants 12:52:43 ACTION: Thierry to re-open the questionnaire and invite people to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order to get a quorum of responses 12:52:43 Created ACTION-90 - Re-open the questionnaire and invite people to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order to get a quorum of responses [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-03-17]. 12:52:58 ACTION: Thierry to chase the non-responders 12:52:58 Created ACTION-91 - Chase the non-responders [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-03-17]. 12:53:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael 12:53:21 sorry..! I missed the due in flight... 12:54:00 Thierry, do we make a decision to reopen for that once again ? 12:54:03 Topic: toy implementation 12:55:01 Veronique: is there a schema of XMP available or should we construct it manually from the spec? 12:55:45 Veronique: should we consider the VRA mapping in the toy implementation given that VRA has low results in the pol 12:56:03 Wonsuk: we can ask the schema to Adobe 12:56:24 Raphael: I think it does *NOT* exist 12:57:28 http://support.adobe.com/devsup/devsup.nsf/docs/51668.htm 12:58:43 Raphael: we can of course ask confirmation from Adobe, a chair action? 13:00:06 ... from the blog post above, it seems Adobe considers XMP as a framework, in which particular subsets are defined, DC, and other small schemas, but XMP is extensible too, thus no XMP schema exists 13:00:11 ... this is how I interpret it 13:01:28 I was asking Adobe for some of XMP issues as well as Metadata WG, but no clear answer to me until now... 13:01:35 ACTION: Joakim to ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's contact in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have access too 13:01:38 Created ACTION-92 - Ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's contact in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have access too [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2009-03-17]. 13:01:49 Topic: AOB 13:02:00 Thierry: next call will be an hour earlier again!!! 13:02:14 Chairs: need to write that in the agenda 13:02:18 -veroniqueM 13:02:19 - +41.22.717.aabb 13:02:20 pchampin has left #mediaann 13:02:20 -raphael 13:02:20 -Chris_IBBT 13:02:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael 13:02:26 -pchampin 13:02:27 wonsuk has left #mediaann 13:02:35 again, sorry 13:02:36 - +82.10.58.00.aadd 13:02:39 -Thierry 13:02:39 zakim, who is here? 13:02:40 IA_MAWG()8:00AM has ended 13:02:41 Attendees were Thierry, +95177aaaa, [VrijeUni], +41.22.717.aabb, raphael, pchampin, Chris_IBBT, +03120598aacc, veroniqueM, +82.10.58.00.aadd 13:02:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael 13:02:43 apparently IA_MAWG()8:00AM has ended, raphael 13:02:45 On IRC I see veroniqueM, daniel, Chris_IBBT, raphael, RRSAgent, Zakim, tmichel, trackbot 13:02:51 zakim, bye 13:02:51 Zakim has left #mediaann 13:03:27 RRSAgent, bye 13:03:27 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-actions.rdf : 13:03:27 ACTION: Thierry to provide the list of all formats considered in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping, leading each sub-group [1] 13:03:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc#T12-23-59 13:03:27 ACTION: ALL to join these sub-groups [2] 13:03:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc#T12-24-12 13:03:27 ACTION: Thierry to re-open the questionnaire and invite people to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order to get a quorum of responses [3] 13:03:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc#T12-52-43 13:03:27 ACTION: Thierry to chase the non-responders [4] 13:03:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc#T12-52-58 13:03:27 ACTION: Joakim to ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's contact in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have access too [5] 13:03:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc#T13-01-35