IRC log of mediaann on 2009-03-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:52:46 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
11:52:46 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc
11:53:40 [tmichel]
Scribe:Thierry
11:54:32 [tmichel]
Chair: Joakim
11:55:24 [pchampin]
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11:55:39 [tmichel]
Regrets: Tobias
11:56:12 [tmichel]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0023.html
11:56:28 [raphael]
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11:57:23 [tmichel]
Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html
11:57:36 [tmichel]
hello raphael
11:58:26 [Chris_IBBT]
Chris_IBBT has joined #mediaann
11:59:27 [veroniqueM]
veroniqueM has joined #mediaann
12:00:14 [daniel]
daniel has joined #mediaann
12:02:09 [raphael]
trackbot, start teleco
12:02:09 [trackbot]
Sorry, raphael, I don't understand 'trackbot, start teleco'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
12:02:13 [raphael]
trackbot, start telecon
12:02:15 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:02:17 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be MAWG
12:02:17 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see IA_MAWG()8:00AM already started
12:02:18 [trackbot]
Meeting: Media Annotations Working Group Teleconference
12:02:18 [trackbot]
Date: 10 March 2009
12:02:31 [Zakim]
-[CWI]
12:03:12 [Zakim]
+[CWI]
12:03:17 [tmichel]
Regrets: Tobias, michele
12:03:19 [tmichel]
Zakim, who is here?
12:03:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Thierry, ??P1, +95177aaaa, [VrijeUni], +41.22.717.aabb, [CWI]
12:03:21 [Zakim]
On IRC I see daniel, veroniqueM, Chris_IBBT, raphael, pchampin, RRSAgent, Zakim, tmichel, trackbot
12:03:28 [raphael]
zakim, [CWI] is me
12:03:28 [Zakim]
+raphael; got it
12:03:52 [raphael]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0023.html
12:04:18 [Chris_IBBT]
zakim, ??P1 is me
12:04:18 [Zakim]
+Chris_IBBT; got it
12:04:44 [daniel]
this call starts ?
12:05:21 [tmichel]
hope Joakim will join to chair this meeting
12:05:55 [tmichel]
Zakim, who is talking?
12:06:06 [tmichel]
Zakim, who is here?
12:06:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Thierry, Chris_IBBT, pchampin, [VrijeUni], +41.22.717.aabb, raphael (muted)
12:06:09 [Zakim]
On IRC I see daniel, veroniqueM, Chris_IBBT, raphael, pchampin, RRSAgent, Zakim, tmichel, trackbot
12:06:12 [Zakim]
tmichel, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: pchampin (29%), +41.22.717.aabb (17%)
12:07:00 [Chris_IBBT]
hopefully Joakim did not forget the different starting time of the phone conference
12:07:11 [daniel]
oh, call information sent from Joakim has the same timezone (not applying one-hour earlier). I am now traveling, hence can't make a phone call.
12:07:43 [veroniqueM]
veroniqueM has joined #mediaann
12:07:46 [tmichel]
It maybe that some people have forgotten about the time slot change for this call
12:07:46 [Zakim]
-[VrijeUni]
12:08:31 [tmichel]
Should we proceed ? Do we have a quorum ?
12:08:31 [raphael]
chairs, tema contact: what's happened with this call?
12:08:46 [daniel]
presumably, we will start after one-hour with Joamik charing. sorry for inconvenience and thanks your patient...
12:09:17 [tmichel]
Joakim sent an agenda and was schedulled to Chair. I was scheduled to scribe ...
12:09:40 [raphael]
The agenda said: Tuesday, 10 March 13:00-14:00 UTC
12:10:12 [raphael]
zakim, who is here?
12:10:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Thierry, Chris_IBBT, pchampin (muted), +41.22.717.aabb, raphael (muted)
12:10:14 [Zakim]
On IRC I see veroniqueM, daniel, Chris_IBBT, raphael, pchampin, RRSAgent, Zakim, tmichel, trackbot
12:10:29 [raphael]
zakim, unmute me
12:10:29 [Zakim]
raphael should no longer be muted
12:10:52 [Chris_IBBT]
we do it in french?
12:11:27 [raphael]
veronique, the telecon was messy, restart again
12:11:30 [Zakim]
-Chris_IBBT
12:11:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
12:12:05 [pchampin]
zakim, unmute me
12:12:05 [Zakim]
pchampin should no longer be muted
12:12:06 [daniel]
so sorry...this is a chairs' mistake. if ok, we will be able to resume this call after 50 minutes. is that ok for all of you ?
12:12:22 [raphael]
daniel, we cannot, since Zakim is not booked!
12:13:04 [daniel]
um...ok, Thierry can you be charing this call instead of Joakim ?
12:13:25 [Zakim]
+??P1
12:13:45 [tmichel]
do we want to cancel
12:13:47 [raphael]
Present: Jean Pierre, Thierry, Pierre Antoine, Chris, Raphael, Daniel (irc), Veronique (irc)
12:14:03 [Chris_IBBT]
zakim, ??P1 is me
12:14:03 [Zakim]
+Chris_IBBT; got it
12:14:08 [pchampin]
zakim, mute me
12:14:08 [Zakim]
pchampin should now be muted
12:14:09 [tmichel]
topic: Agenda review and approval of previous minutes telecon 03 March 2009
12:14:20 [raphael]
minutes accepted, no objections
12:14:20 [tmichel]
Propose to accept: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html as
12:14:20 [tmichel]
minutes of the last meeting, thanks to Veronique for scribing.
12:14:43 [raphael]
Scribe: raphael
12:14:44 [pchampin]
I can scribe
12:14:47 [raphael]
scribenick: raphael
12:14:58 [raphael]
Scribe for next week: Thierry volunteers
12:15:10 [raphael]
Topic: Action Items
12:15:25 [raphael]
Felix: ACTION-43: continue
12:15:48 [pchampin]
zakim, unmute me
12:15:48 [Zakim]
pchampin should no longer be muted
12:15:59 [raphael]
All actions: 47, 54, 80, 82 continue
12:16:12 [raphael]
Pierre Antoine: ACTION-83
12:16:19 [raphael]
... the action is not completed
12:16:48 [Zakim]
+ +03120598aacc
12:16:50 [raphael]
... I thought that the review of the standards will be done in small group and thus the action would have been cancelled
12:17:02 [raphael]
zakim, aaccc is veroniqueM
12:17:02 [Zakim]
sorry, raphael, I do not recognize a party named 'aaccc'
12:17:04 [raphael]
zakim, aacc is veroniqueM
12:17:04 [Zakim]
+veroniqueM; got it
12:17:12 [raphael]
close ACTION-83
12:17:12 [trackbot]
ACTION-83 Review ID3 closed
12:17:33 [raphael]
The remaining actions: 85, 86, 87 are still pending
12:17:35 [pchampin]
zakim, mute me
12:17:35 [Zakim]
pchampin should now be muted
12:18:16 [raphael]
Topic: mapping of formats
12:18:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
12:18:39 [raphael]
Thierry: how will we going to publish this table in our new document?
12:19:22 [raphael]
Raphael: is there any action to actually review this table?
12:19:39 [raphael]
Thierry: no, we will make small group of 2-3 people for reviewing part of this table
12:19:56 [raphael]
... should we design groups and assign formats to these groups ?
12:20:12 [raphael]
Veronique: I thought we will discuss that during the face to face meeting
12:20:21 [raphael]
Raphael: +1 for Veronique's suggestion
12:20:53 [raphael]
Thierry: yes, but we should as well have some material prior to the f2f
12:20:57 [daniel]
this small group will be made by toy implementation volunteers and chairs...so toss it (reviewing the mapping table) to chairs this time
12:21:52 [raphael]
Jean Pierre: we need experts of these formats to actually do the mapping, I will not dare to say something on formats I don't know
12:22:12 [raphael]
Thierry: should we ask people to attach their name on specific format?
12:22:15 [raphael]
Jean Pierre: yes
12:22:21 [pchampin]
+1
12:22:24 [Chris_IBBT]
+1
12:22:42 [raphael]
Thierry: and then use a first come first serve principle
12:23:04 [raphael]
Jean Pierre: the maker of the mapping for each specific format should be in
12:23:08 [veroniqueM]
+1
12:23:59 [raphael]
ACTION: Thierry to provide the list of all formats considered in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping, leading each sub-group
12:23:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-89 - Provide the list of all formats considered in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping, leading each sub-group [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-03-17].
12:24:12 [raphael]
ACTION: ALL to join these sub-groups
12:24:12 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - ALL
12:26:01 [raphael]
Raphael: why do you want to publish this table before the f2f?
12:26:27 [raphael]
Veronique: in order to get comments from a wider community
12:26:47 [raphael]
Thierry: it will be difficult to publish this table in the TR space because of pubrules
12:29:32 [raphael]
Raphael: my suggestion would be to produce a document that contains excerpts of the table and graphical representation of the mappings
12:29:48 [raphael]
... but requires a lot of work, not sure you can make it in 2 weeks
12:30:11 [raphael]
Veronique: graphical representation might be unreadable
12:31:09 [raphael]
Raphael: yes, thus split this table depending on group of properties
12:32:19 [pchampin]
zakim, unmute me
12:32:19 [Zakim]
pchampin should no longer be muted
12:32:39 [raphael]
Veronique: we want a validation of these mappings from the communiy depending on the usage of the properties
12:32:59 [raphael]
Raphael: then you need a lot of text explaining the rational behind each mappings
12:33:26 [raphael]
Pierre Antoine: the current table has XMP as a pivot format
12:34:19 [raphael]
... split the table in plenty of tables with always XMP as reference
12:36:22 [raphael]
Raphael: problem with that is that you remove a lot of value of the global view of the table
12:37:06 [wonsuk]
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12:37:34 [raphael]
Thierry: but assuming we do not publish anything by the f2f, what can we expect afterwards
12:38:06 [raphael]
Veronique: the transitivity of the mappings is also in question, we need to discuss it during the f2f
12:38:23 [Chris_IBBT]
+1 Veronique
12:38:30 [raphael]
+1 veronique
12:38:49 [raphael]
Thierry: what I hear here, is that we should wait for after the f2f to go publishing a document
12:38:53 [veroniqueM]
+1
12:38:54 [raphael]
+1
12:39:35 [raphael]
Raphael: and explain carefully the rationale of each mapping, the type of the mapping (equivalent, sub-property, related to, unspecified), the transitivity
12:39:37 [Zakim]
+ +82.10.58.00.aadd
12:40:00 [raphael]
Thierry: do we have a quorum for taking a resolution
12:40:11 [raphael]
Raphael: i think we are not enough, can make an informal poll
12:40:40 [raphael]
Chris: we should listen to the arguments of Felix that wanted to publish the table asap
12:40:50 [raphael]
Present+: wonsuk (partial)
12:41:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
12:41:41 [raphael]
Thierry: ok, this is not a formal resolution (no quorum), but I note that the people present on the call want to delay the publication of the table
12:42:06 [raphael]
Toppic: survey of mapping formats
12:42:14 [tmichel]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42786/Annot-format-survey/results
12:43:23 [raphael]
12 responders on 26 people!
12:43:39 [raphael]
q+
12:44:51 [raphael]
Thierry: commenting the results received so far, see also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0030.html
12:46:33 [raphael]
Raphael: I would like to raise a serious concern! I see only 12 responders on 26, among the non-responders, there are active participants ! I observe also that Dave Singer (from Apple) has raised concern on the poll itself and did not provide answers :-(
12:46:38 [raphael]
zakim, ack me
12:46:38 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
12:49:53 [raphael]
Chris: i can ask other IBBT guys to answer as well
12:49:59 [raphael]
Veronique: I have no real preferences
12:50:13 [raphael]
Thierry: I'm a team contact, so I cannot answer
12:50:23 [raphael]
Daniel: why did you do not answer?
12:51:00 [raphael]
Others: seem to not be active participants
12:52:43 [raphael]
ACTION: Thierry to re-open the questionnaire and invite people to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order to get a quorum of responses
12:52:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-90 - Re-open the questionnaire and invite people to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order to get a quorum of responses [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-03-17].
12:52:58 [raphael]
ACTION: Thierry to chase the non-responders
12:52:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-91 - Chase the non-responders [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-03-17].
12:53:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
12:53:21 [daniel]
sorry..! I missed the due in flight...
12:54:00 [daniel]
Thierry, do we make a decision to reopen for that once again ?
12:54:03 [raphael]
Topic: toy implementation
12:55:01 [raphael]
Veronique: is there a schema of XMP available or should we construct it manually from the spec?
12:55:45 [raphael]
Veronique: should we consider the VRA mapping in the toy implementation given that VRA has low results in the pol
12:56:03 [raphael]
Wonsuk: we can ask the schema to Adobe
12:56:24 [raphael]
Raphael: I think it does *NOT* exist
12:57:28 [raphael]
http://support.adobe.com/devsup/devsup.nsf/docs/51668.htm
12:58:43 [raphael]
Raphael: we can of course ask confirmation from Adobe, a chair action?
13:00:06 [raphael]
... from the blog post above, it seems Adobe considers XMP as a framework, in which particular subsets are defined, DC, and other small schemas, but XMP is extensible too, thus no XMP schema exists
13:00:11 [raphael]
... this is how I interpret it
13:01:28 [daniel]
I was asking Adobe for some of XMP issues as well as Metadata WG, but no clear answer to me until now...
13:01:35 [raphael]
ACTION: Joakim to ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's contact in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have access too
13:01:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-92 - Ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's contact in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have access too [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2009-03-17].
13:01:49 [raphael]
Topic: AOB
13:02:00 [raphael]
Thierry: next call will be an hour earlier again!!!
13:02:14 [raphael]
Chairs: need to write that in the agenda
13:02:18 [Zakim]
-veroniqueM
13:02:19 [Zakim]
- +41.22.717.aabb
13:02:20 [pchampin]
pchampin has left #mediaann
13:02:20 [Zakim]
-raphael
13:02:20 [Zakim]
-Chris_IBBT
13:02:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
13:02:26 [Zakim]
-pchampin
13:02:27 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has left #mediaann
13:02:35 [daniel]
again, sorry
13:02:36 [Zakim]
- +82.10.58.00.aadd
13:02:39 [Zakim]
-Thierry
13:02:39 [raphael]
zakim, who is here?
13:02:40 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()8:00AM has ended
13:02:41 [Zakim]
Attendees were Thierry, +95177aaaa, [VrijeUni], +41.22.717.aabb, raphael, pchampin, Chris_IBBT, +03120598aacc, veroniqueM, +82.10.58.00.aadd
13:02:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html raphael
13:02:43 [Zakim]
apparently IA_MAWG()8:00AM has ended, raphael
13:02:45 [Zakim]
On IRC I see veroniqueM, daniel, Chris_IBBT, raphael, RRSAgent, Zakim, tmichel, trackbot
13:02:51 [raphael]
zakim, bye
13:02:51 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mediaann
13:03:27 [raphael]
RRSAgent, bye
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-actions.rdf :
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Thierry to provide the list of all formats considered in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping, leading each sub-group [1]
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc#T12-23-59
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ALL to join these sub-groups [2]
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc#T12-24-12
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Thierry to re-open the questionnaire and invite people to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order to get a quorum of responses [3]
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc#T12-52-43
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Thierry to chase the non-responders [4]
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc#T12-52-58
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Joakim to ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's contact in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have access too [5]
13:03:27 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc#T13-01-35