17:54:35 RRSAgent has joined #owl 17:54:35 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-owl-irc 17:54:50 IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.03.04/Agenda 17:55:03 Zakim, this will be owlwg 17:55:03 ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 17:55:15 RRSAgent, make records public 17:55:28 ScribeNick: Uli 17:55:39 zimmer has joined #owl 17:56:06 bmotik has joined #owl 17:56:31 Zakim, this will be owl 17:56:31 ok, bmotik; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 17:56:38 SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started 17:56:45 +Alistair 17:57:08 bcuencagrau has joined #owl 17:57:35 pfps has joined #owl 17:58:06 +Alistair.a 17:58:26 -Alistair.a 17:58:34 Zakim, who is on call 17:58:34 I don't understand 'who is on call', bmotik 17:58:42 ZAkim, who is on call? 17:58:42 I don't understand your question, bmotik. 17:58:52 +Peter_Patel-Schneider 17:59:01 +Alistair.a 17:59:11 -Alistair 17:59:12 Zakim, +Alistair.a is bcuencagrau 17:59:12 sorry, bcuencagrau, I do not recognize a party named '+Alistair.a' 17:59:32 Zakim, Alistair.a is bcuencagrau 17:59:32 +bcuencagrau; got it 17:59:34 +bcuencagrau.a 17:59:36 zakim, who is here? 17:59:36 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau, bcuencagrau.a 17:59:37 On IRC I see pfps, bcuencagrau, bmotik, zimmer, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot 17:59:38 Zakim, mute me 17:59:38 bcuencagrau should now be muted 17:59:43 Zakim, bcuencagrau.a is me 17:59:43 +bmotik; got it 17:59:47 Zakim, mute me 17:59:47 bmotik should now be muted 18:00:03 zakim, dial ivan-voip 18:00:03 ok, ivan; the call is being made 18:00:04 +Ivan 18:00:23 +IanH 18:00:30 zakim, who is here? 18:00:30 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH 18:00:33 On IRC I see pfps, bcuencagrau, bmotik, zimmer, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot 18:00:37 uli has joined #owl 18:00:40 uli_ has joined #owl 18:00:50 Evening all! 18:00:56 hiho 18:01:17 In the civilised world. 18:01:23 Uli: you are scribing? 18:01:29 yes i am 18:01:40 scribenick uli 18:01:51 but i am still dialing 18:02:02 ewallace has joined #owl 18:02:02 +??P8 18:02:06 zakim, who is here? 18:02:06 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, ??P8 18:02:08 On IRC I see ewallace, uli_, uli, pfps, bcuencagrau, bmotik, zimmer, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot 18:02:08 zakim, ??P8 is me 18:02:08 +uli; got it 18:02:18 regrets from Bijan 18:02:19 MarkusK_ has joined #owl 18:02:24 he is off sick 18:02:48 +??P4 18:03:00 zakim, who is here? 18:03:00 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, uli, ??P4 18:03:00 On IRC I see MarkusK_, ewallace, uli_, uli, pfps, bcuencagrau, bmotik, zimmer, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot 18:03:11 Zhe has joined #owl 18:03:15 zakim, who is here? 18:03:15 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, uli, MarkusK_ 18:03:17 On IRC I see Zhe, MarkusK_, ewallace, uli_, uli, pfps, bcuencagrau, bmotik, zimmer, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot 18:03:25 msmith has joined #owl 18:03:28 zakim, mute me 18:03:28 Ivan should now be muted 18:03:33 some things to stick into topics later 18:03:41 +Zhe 18:03:46 IanH: Agenda amendments? 18:03:52 zakim, who is here? 18:03:52 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan (muted), IanH, uli, MarkusK_, Zhe 18:03:54 On IRC I see msmith, Zhe, MarkusK_, ewallace, uli_, uli, pfps, bcuencagrau, bmotik, zimmer, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot 18:03:58 q+ 18:04:03 +msmith 18:04:05 ack pfps 18:04:28 pfps: I miss status of actions & documents 18:04:40 pfps: not actions, issues 18:04:50 +Sandro 18:04:58 +??P16 18:05:09 Achille has joined #owl 18:05:24 Zakim, ??P16 is me 18:05:24 +zimmer; got it 18:05:44 +Evan_Wallace 18:06:01 IanH: there is one action left on the open issue on Alan 18:06:09 +[IBM] 18:06:30 zakim, ibm is me 18:06:30 +Achille; got it 18:06:48 q? 18:06:52 IanH: we will come back to this after admin stuff 18:07:02 18 Feb OK 18:07:07 IanH: previous minutes? 18:07:20 PROPOSED: accept last week's minutes 18:07:29 23 Feb minimally OK 18:07:32 RESOLVED: accept last week's minutes 18:07:33 s/last week's/feb 18's/ 18:07:34 24 Feb has a problem 18:07:58 pfps: 24s isn't finished yet 18:08:54 otherwise minimally acceptable 18:09:06 schneid has joined #owl 18:09:08 IanH: 24s are acceptable modula minor cleanup? 18:09:29 RESOLVED: accept minutes from F2F modulo minor clean-up 18:09:33 q+ 18:09:43 q? 18:09:49 ack pfps 18:09:50 IanH: Action item status 18:10:07 hi, i did not yet find the time to edit my scribe job at F2F 18:10:55 IanH: we need to check answer to LC 45 (ML2) 18:10:58 +[IPcaller] 18:11:20 q? 18:11:20 zakim, [IPcaller] is me 18:11:21 +schneid; got it 18:11:25 q? 18:11:27 zakim, mute me 18:11:27 schneid should now be muted 18:11:29 IanH: pending review actions are all trivial? 18:11:37 pfps: action 298 18:11:57 pfps: response lack diffs 18:12:11 I don't see anything in the action page for ACTION-298 18:12:17 IanH: will point to a section of a document 18:12:49 IanH: ok, then all pending review action are deemed to be completed 18:12:54 I haven't 18:13:03 I'll do this now as I go trhoguh the spec 18:13:07 IanH: Boris, did you find examples for 270? 18:13:11 Zakim, unmute me 18:13:11 bmotik should no longer be muted 18:13:13 q+ 18:13:15 regarding ACTION-283, a technical barrier that was preventing me from moving forward on the "comment" part has been removed. I have pushed the due date to Mar 11 and expect to be done by then. 18:13:25 q- 18:13:29 Zakim, mute me 18:13:29 bmotik should now be muted 18:13:33 IanH: 283 is moved forward 18:13:35 q? 18:13:36 Zakim, unmute me 18:13:36 bmotik should no longer be muted 18:13:57 Zakim, mute me 18:13:57 bmotik should now be muted 18:14:02 bmotik: I will start implementing all these changes from tomorrow 18:14:12 IanH: Action 292 18:14:17 zakim, who is here? 18:14:17 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan (muted), IanH, uli, MarkusK_, Zhe, msmith, Sandro, zimmer, Evan_Wallace, Achille, schneid 18:14:20 ... (muted) 18:14:21 On IRC I see schneid, Achille, msmith, Zhe, MarkusK_, ewallace, uli_, uli, pfps, bcuencagrau, bmotik, zimmer, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot 18:14:27 Sandro: isn't done yet, will go to next week 18:14:39 IanH: 295 waits for Boris 18:14:47 christine has joined #owl 18:14:56 IanH: 301? Jie? 18:15:08 IanH: 299? Sandro? 18:15:19 IanH: 299 will be pushed forward as well 18:16:00 IanH: 300? Alan isn't here - did anybody hear about 18:16:10 IanH: 300 will be pushed forward as well 18:16:39 "Responding to XML Schema" 18:16:49 q? 18:17:01 IamH: we concluded that we should write the, "good job, thanks" 18:17:03 I'll send out a message saying this shortly. 18:17:10 s/IamH/IanH 18:17:29 IanH: ok, then we ask pfps to complete action 281 in this sense 18:17:38 fine 18:17:44 PROPOSED: Respond to XML Schema "Good job, thanks!" 18:17:55 +1 18:17:58 +1 18:17:59 +1 18:18:00 +1 18:18:00 +1 18:18:02 +1 18:18:03 +1 18:18:03 +1 18:18:04 +1 18:18:07 +1 18:18:16 +1 18:18:17 RESOLVED: Respond to XML Schema "Good job, thanks!" 18:18:34 q+ 18:18:41 q? 18:19:04 pfps: I forgot...issue 97 (grrdl) is missing an action 18:19:06 q+ 18:19:10 q? 18:19:34 q- 18:19:35 ack ivan 18:19:36 IanH: the solution is still slightly unclear, Ivan is finding out how many transform we can have 18:19:39 ack ivan 18:20:00 action on Ivan? 18:20:00 Sorry, couldn't find user - on 18:20:00 ivan: i talked to the grrdl people, and i will come up with a proposal soon 18:20:09 q? 18:20:16 zakim, who is here? 18:20:16 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, uli, MarkusK_, Zhe, msmith, Sandro, zimmer, Evan_Wallace, Achille, schneid (muted) 18:20:19 On IRC I see christine, schneid, Achille, msmith, Zhe, MarkusK_, ewallace, uli_, uli, pfps, bcuencagrau, bmotik, zimmer, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot 18:20:39 ivan: it seems as if we could have several implementation referenced 18:20:44 OK 18:21:18 Agenda: Issue 646? 18:21:30 Agenda: Issue 146 18:21:38 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/issues/146 18:21:47 thanks evan 18:21:58 q? 18:22:33 pfps: as a summary of the ongoig discussion, Alan wants to have a new 'entity name' in the Manchester Syntax 18:22:51 pfps: with a number of unclear points 18:22:55 q? 18:22:56 I'll take an action to update Manchester syntax without any labels stuff. 18:23:06 Can we summarize that as PFPS finds Alan's proposal underspecified? 18:23:10 ...regarding as to what happens if...with labels 18:23:12 q+ 18:23:18 q? 18:23:48 ack ivan 18:24:21 Ivan: manchester syntax isn't a rectrack document, so we are free to publish draft or note 18:24:40 I don't want to publish with an EdNote. 18:24:53 ...so i'd suggest that we don't push back this issue when Alan isn't here 18:25:33 IanH: would this be ok with pfps? 18:25:39 q+ 18:25:45 ack pfps 18:25:53 ...i.e., a draft without labels and no ednote 18:26:35 OK 18:27:20 PROPOSED: new working draft of Manchester Syntax will be published at the end of the month; it won't attempt to address issue-146, nor will it include any ed-note referring to this issue 18:27:26 q 18:27:32 zakim, unmute me 18:27:32 schneid should no longer be muted 18:27:38 q? 18:28:31 end-of-month = with other documents 18:28:41 01 June - Publish Round 7: All docs; rec-track specs to CR 18:28:46 zakim, mute me 18:28:46 schneid should now be muted 18:28:57 15 April - Publish Round 6: All documents, specs in Last Call (LC1 or LC2) 18:29:00 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Timeline 18:29:41 PROPOSED: new working draft of Manchester Syntax will be published as part of round 6 on the 15th April; it won't attempt to address issue-146, nor will it include any ed-note referring to this issue 18:29:49 +1 18:29:52 +1 18:29:58 +1 18:30:02 +1 18:30:03 +1 18:30:07 +1 18:30:07 +1 18:30:15 +1 18:30:16 +1 18:30:19 +1 18:30:21 (publication is already planned --- the point here is about issue-146.) 18:30:24 +1 18:30:30 RESOLVED: new working draft of Manchester Syntax will be published as part of round 6 on the 15th April; it won't attempt to address issue-146, nor will it include any ed-note referring to this issue 18:30:31 It would also be good to get a vote on 146 and close it by Round 6. 18:30:54 I'm OK 18:31:22 Agenda: F2F debrief 18:31:41 IanH: for those who weren't there/didn't read minutes 18:31:57 ...there are summaries on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F5_Summary 18:31:58 q? 18:32:19 ...and please take a look at the revised schedule 18:32:21 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Timeline 18:33:09 ...so we won't finish by the end of April, and hope to be finished by October 18:33:12 q+ 18:33:15 q? 18:33:18 zakim, unmute me 18:33:18 schneid should no longer be muted 18:33:19 ...and possibly hang on until the end of the year 18:33:20 ack schneid 18:33:54 schneid: we discussed to have a very short cand-rec phase 18:34:09 IanH: correct - it's in the timeline page 18:34:25 q? 18:34:27 ...because we already have quite a lot of implementations 18:34:37 zakim, mute me 18:34:37 schneid should now be muted 18:35:07 q? 18:35:08 IanH: i'd suggest to not spend more time reminiscising 18:35:49 Agenda: Last Call Comments 18:35:55 q? 18:35:58 q- :-) 18:36:09 IanH: for the 'easy' ones, we will send them unless somebody wants to discuss them 18:36:43 IanH: so we send all answers to those in the list "Responses ready to send " 18:37:19 q? 18:37:20 IanH: for LC 43a, did anybody look at it? 18:37:43 Fine by me :-) 18:37:46 q? 18:37:50 ...I did and it seems fine 18:37:55 yes 18:38:07 IanH: did you see the response? 18:38:09 a few of them came in today, and I hadn't time to look at them yet 18:38:15 Zhe: looks ok to me 18:38:31 I'll put togther one message 18:38:32 IanH: so, we send LC 43a 18:38:47 IanH: LC 46 18:38:49 This response looks good to me. 18:38:53 looks good to me 18:39:00 ship it 18:39:10 IanH: LC 46 is good to go 18:39:23 IanH: LC 53 18:39:32 q? 18:39:41 53 18:39:42 53 is fine by me :-) 18:40:04 OKed by commenter already 18:40:10 yes 18:40:14 IanH: we already basically ok-ed it at F2F 18:40:24 IanH: LC 53 is good to go 18:40:25 OK 18:40:32 IanH: LC 61 18:40:36 61 needs the pointer to the changed section(s) 18:40:52 otherwise OK to go 18:40:59 IanH: it needs a pointer to changed sections 18:41:00 good with those changes 18:41:12 IanH: I will fix LC 61 and send it 18:41:15 ok 18:41:29 IanH: LC 10 18:41:36 q? 18:41:53 q? 18:41:58 ...intro needs fixing since unclear whether OWL 1 should be mentioned there 18:42:03 q+ 18:42:07 q? 18:42:07 ...this is related to the 'overview' 18:42:18 pfps: intro or abstract 18:42:32 q+ 18:42:38 q? 18:42:44 IanH: new abstract plus roadmap could go into the intro of every document 18:42:51 q+ to say where to go 18:42:58 ack pfps 18:42:58 pfps, you wanted to say where to go 18:43:17 pfps: it could go into 'status of document set' part of the whole lot 18:43:26 Which would go into status ...? 18:43:30 q? 18:43:43 q+ 18:43:53 q? 18:43:56 q- 18:44:07 q- 18:44:11 Sandro: don't think this would be a good idea, the roadmap gets quite big 18:44:27 q+ 18:44:30 IanH: yes, it looks strange next to copyright and should go after table of contents 18:44:32 ack pfps 18:44:57 pfps: then we shouldn't do this because it's big and bulky and we *have* the document overview 18:45:03 what topic of agenda is discussed? 18:45:12 LC 10 18:45:34 q? 18:45:39 Christine, new generic abstract to all our documents 18:45:56 IanH: this doesn't seem to be optimal 18:46:01 q? 18:46:02 like what? 18:46:04 +q 18:46:14 ...ideally, we should something at the beginning of intro like the roadmap 18:46:27 q? 18:46:28 ...which isn't too bulky 18:46:33 ack ewallace 18:46:45 q+ 18:46:49 ewallace: why would we stick the roadmap into all documents? 18:47:07 IanH: we try to avoid confusing people who start with reading the wrong document 18:47:17 q? 18:47:31 q? 18:47:35 ack sandro 18:48:18 Sandro: we should always make clear (in abstract, intro) in each document that it's a part of a set and *which* 18:48:32 q? 18:48:38 elisa has joined #owl 18:48:41 IanH: you want "title...part x' 18:48:50 q? 18:48:56 I'm looking at DIrect Semantics - something like "This document is part of the OWL 2 recommendation. It formally defines the .... For an introduction to the OWL 2 recommendation, see the Document Overview. 18:49:13 Sandro: yes, add something thoughtful to all intros 18:49:42 q+ 18:49:51 q- 18:49:54 IanH: we should add to whom the document is aimed at 18:49:54 q? 18:50:47 q+ 18:50:56 q? 18:51:02 zakim, who is here? 18:51:02 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, uli, MarkusK_, Zhe, msmith, Sandro, zimmer, Evan_Wallace, Achille, schneid (muted) 18:51:06 On IRC I see elisa, christine, schneid, Achille, msmith, Zhe, MarkusK_, ewallace, uli_, uli, pfps, bcuencagrau, bmotik, zimmer, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot 18:51:10 IanH: so, what about a part of the intro of each doc that tells them for whom the doc is intended and what it does 18:51:24 q? 18:51:25 a less-formal document could be more user-friendly :-) 18:51:29 q- 18:51:30 ack pfps 18:51:33 IanH: (reads pfps' above suggestion and likes it) 18:51:57 s/likes it/deems it adequate 18:52:04 where should it be now? 18:52:37 Action on all editor to add such a 'uniform' passage to the intro of their intros 18:52:37 Sorry, couldn't find user - on 18:52:40 q+ 18:53:02 q? 18:53:05 ack pfps 18:53:12 pfps: i suggest 1. sentence in each intro 'this doc is about' 2. sentence 'for an intro, go ...' 18:53:15 q+ 18:53:22 zakim, unmute me 18:53:22 schneid should no longer be muted 18:53:23 q+ 18:53:27 Sandro: this is adequate 18:53:29 ack schneid 18:53:33 If we do more, it won't be uniform. 18:53:35 we could also link to the roadmap? 18:53:54 schneid: sees a lot of text before intro 18:54:15 there is proposed text for abstract in the "response" for 10 18:54:22 Sandro: do we continue to have 2 part abstract - 1 for OWL 2, 1 for this document 18:54:30 zakim, unmute me 18:54:30 schneid was not muted, schneid 18:54:34 zakim, mute me 18:54:34 schneid should now be muted 18:54:42 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/IH2 18:54:45 q? 18:54:52 ack ivan 18:54:53 no pointer to Doc Overview yet 18:55:12 ivan: we can't take a final decision now 18:55:21 +Elisa_Kendall 18:55:31 zakim, who is here? 18:55:31