14:16:10 RRSAgent has joined #sparql 14:16:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-irc 14:16:25 Zakim, space for 20 for 2 hours? 14:16:25 I don't understand your question, ericP. 14:16:56 zakim, you're not alone 14:16:56 I don't understand 'you're not alone', LeeF_ 14:17:11 everyone's a critic 14:19:17 dom has joined #sparql 14:19:21 Should I copy&paste introductions onto the wiki, or just link to public-rdf-dawg archives? leaning towards the latter, as the Internet is crowded as is 14:19:23 dom has left #sparql 14:19:37 indeed 14:19:41 instructions? 14:19:48 instructions? 14:20:55 Zakim, room for 20 for 2 hours? 14:20:55 I don't understand your question, ericP. 14:21:43 Zakim, room for 20 for 120 minutes? 14:21:45 sorry, ericP; could not schedule an adhoc conference; passcode overlap; if you do not have a fixed code you may try again 14:21:55 Zakim, this will be SPARQL 14:21:55 ok, ericP; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 39 minutes 14:22:00 fine, whatever 14:22:22 lol 14:22:48 ericP, can you make sure we've got a tracker request in progress? i think sandro said he didn't see one in the DB 14:23:02 trackbot, how's it hanging? 14:23:02 Sorry, ericP, I don't understand 'trackbot, how's it hanging?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 14:24:49 trackbot, status 14:25:08 trackbot, you need remedial match classes 14:25:08 Sorry, LeeF, I don't understand 'trackbot, you need remedial match classes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 14:25:17 s/match/math 14:26:28 john-l has joined #sparql 14:27:53 ericP, I have no idea how to tell if trackbot is configured for us or what or where 14:34:24 the sparql tracker setup is yet untested, but probably fine 14:34:44 does it have a URL somewhere in Web space? 14:35:01 ACTION: LeeF to see if the SPARQL tracker is setup correctly 14:35:01 Sorry, couldn't find user - LeeF 14:35:27 action -1 14:35:28 Sorry, bad ACTION syntax 14:35:42 how does this thing learn about users? 14:37:17 trackbot, status? 14:38:49 zakim, tracker, RRSAgent, please fight to the death 14:38:49 I don't understand you, LeeF 14:39:23 LeeF, i'm about to gather my compost and head to the 'tute 14:39:28 try asking on #sysreq 14:39:38 'cause i have no idea how to use tracker 14:40:09 ericP, ack 14:43:02 wow, that's a lot of users. Heh.... 14:44:23 kasei has joined #sparql 14:44:54 sandro, are you able to illuminate me in how to find the sparql tracker & how to add users? 14:46:51 Scribe: ericP 14:46:54 Chair: LeeF 14:47:07 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-03-03 14:47:11 Regrets: 14:47:27 agenda + admin 14:47:31 aegnda + logistics 14:47:35 agenda + liaisons 14:47:38 Lee, I don't think tracker knows about sparql. The systems team has to tell it to connect this IRC channel to group 35463, then it should just know who is who. 14:47:55 ok, thanks, I will mail them myseld 14:47:58 myself, even 14:48:00 agenda -2 14:48:04 agenda + logistics 14:48:08 agenda + liaisons 14:48:12 agenda + face to face 14:48:17 agenda + gathering use cases 14:48:22 AndyS has joined #sparql 14:51:22 zakim, code? 14:51:22 the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), LeeF 14:51:45 SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started 14:51:52 +Lee_Feigenbaum 14:52:00 zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is always me 14:52:00 I don't understand 'Lee_Feigenbaum is always me', LeeF 14:52:02 zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me 14:52:02 +LeeF; got it 14:54:26 Time zone fun. If the US starts daylight savings time but no one else does, and we fix around US time, then the meeting is (a) 1 hour earlier for everyone else, or (b) 1 hour later for everyone else? 14:54:41 +kasei 14:54:56 I'm going with (a) 14:55:40 Hello LeeF, I think I'll split list of extensions tomorrow, not today. BTW is our wiki supposed to be visible for public or we do not "advertize" it? 14:55:40 +??P16 14:55:48 zakim, ??P16 is me 14:55:48 +AndyS; got it 14:56:04 ivan has joined #sparql 14:56:22 hi iv_an_ru, tomorrow's fine - our goal is to gather by next week 14:56:34 And the wiki should indeed be public, we conduct our business in public 14:56:35 SteveH has joined #sparql 14:57:06 chimezie has joined #sparql 14:57:10 agenda + wiki & communications are public 14:57:17 ywang4 has joined #sparql 14:57:27 +??P21 14:57:31 +??P26 14:57:37 bijan has joined #sparql 14:57:41 LukeWM has joined #sparql 14:57:49 + +1.216.445.aaaa 14:57:53 terraces has joined #sparql 14:57:54 +iv_an_ru 14:57:56 zakim, bijan is P21 14:57:56 sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'bijan' 14:57:58 zakim, bijan is ??P21 14:57:58 sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'bijan' 14:58:01 zakim, ??P21 is me 14:58:01 +bijan; got it 14:58:02 zakim, P21 is bijan 14:58:02 sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'P21' 14:58:13 zakim, mute me 14:58:13 bijan should now be muted 14:58:15 +??P29 14:58:26 Zakim, ??P29 is [Garlik] 14:58:26 +[Garlik]; got it 14:58:34 +Chimezie_Ogbuji 14:58:35 wow, I've connected to the telcon from the first attempt :) 14:58:40 +??P31 14:58:47 zakim, aaaa is john-l 14:58:47 +john-l; got it 14:59:06 +??P19 14:59:11 Zakim: 31 is me 14:59:37 zakim, ??P31 is terraces 14:59:37 +terraces; got it 14:59:39 Zakim, ??31 is me 14:59:39 sorry, terraces, I do not recognize a party named '??31' 14:59:44 AxelPolleres has joined #sparql 14:59:51 zakim, ??P19 is AxelPolleres 14:59:51 +AxelPolleres; got it 14:59:54 Zakim, ??P31 is me 14:59:54 I already had ??P31 as terraces, terraces 14:59:58 zakim, who's here? 14:59:58 On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), ??P26, john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres 14:59:59 zakim, ?31 is terraces 15:00:03 THanks, accifently called before logging to irc 15:00:06 sorry, iv_an_ru, I do not recognize a party named '?31' 15:00:16 +ivan.a 15:00:18 On IRC I see AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP 15:00:32 zakim, ivan.a is ivan 15:00:43 +ivan; got it 15:01:27 zakim, who's here? 15:01:31 + +656304aabb 15:01:35 I am 15:01:37 Yimin here 15:01:56 zakim, aabb is ywang4 15:01:57 On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), ??P26, john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, +656304aabb 15:02:29 On IRC I see AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP 15:02:33 +ywang4; got it 15:02:34 who's scribing? 15:03:23 -??P26 15:03:49 scribe: AxelPolleres 15:04:11 -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-03-03 agenda 15:04:12 scribenick: AxelPolleres 15:05:06 Lee: clarification... Wg is open only to W3C members, although we conduct work in public 15:05:33 ... minutes, agenda, wiki are all public and encouraged to be shared. 15:05:59 team-sparql-chairs@w3.org 15:06:09 ... if you want to keep something non-public, mail us (team/chairs) 15:06:19 topic: admin 15:06:31 + +1.603.897.aacc 15:06:48 -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-02-24 minutes from last week 15:06:56 minutes from last time are on the web. 15:07:06 PROPOSED: accept minutes from last week 15:07:07 zakim, aacc is Souri 15:07:07 +Souri; got it 15:07:12 Zakim, please dial ericP-office 15:07:12 ok, ericP; the call is being made 15:07:14 +EricP 15:07:19 +Ori 15:07:23 I just look and they look ok 15:07:30 RESOLVED: minutes from last week approved 15:07:40 Zakim: mute me 15:07:44 scribenick: ericP 15:08:12 scribe: Eric P. 15:08:13 next meeting: 10am US time 15:08:48 zakim, who's speaking? 15:08:59 LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (31%), AndyS (13%), Souri (38%) 15:09:01 14:00 UTC next meeting 15:09:06 lastlog trackbot 15:09:12 Zakim, mute Souri 15:09:12 Souri should now be muted 15:09:33 trackbot, start teleconf 15:09:33 topic: logistics 15:09:37 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:09:39 Zakim, this will be No Teleconference 15:09:39 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 15:09:40 Meeting: AC Meeting attendees group Teleconference 15:09:40 Date: 03 March 2009 15:09:56 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki 15:10:26 zakim, mute ericP 15:10:26 sorry, LeeF, I don't know what conference this is 15:10:32 zakim, this is SPARQL 15:10:32 ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM 15:10:33 dom has joined #sparql 15:10:37 zakim, mute ericP 15:10:37 EricP should now be muted 15:10:51 -> p://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Meetings 15:10:57 -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Meetings 15:11:15 RRSAgent, pointer? 15:11:15 See http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-irc#T15-11-15 15:11:37 +daveNewman 15:11:45 -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Scribe_List scribe list 15:13:30 Getting data for channel #sparql at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track//api/users failed - alert sysreq of a possible bug 15:14:18 LeeF: we have intros linked from the wiki 15:14:29 zakim, who's here? 15:14:29 On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, bijan (muted), john-l, iv_an_ru, [Garlik], Chimezie_Ogbuji, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan, ywang4, Souri (muted), EricP (muted), Ori, 15:14:30 ... encourage others to supply intros 15:14:33 ... daveNewman 15:14:34 On IRC I see dom, AxelPolleres, terraces, LukeWM, bijan, ywang4, chimezie, SteveH, ivan, AndyS, kasei, john-l, RRSAgent, Zakim, LeeF, AndyS_, iv_an_ru, trackbot, sandro, ericP 15:14:50 john-l: chime and i missed last week 15:15:03 trackbot, start meeting 15:15:04 ... 2nd rep for cleveland clinic (cleveburg OH) 15:15:23 ... chime and i are working on an impl, hoping to push mods back into spec 15:15:28 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:15:32 Zakim, this will be No Teleconference 15:15:32 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 15:15:34 Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference 15:15:35 chime: john-l and i work on a patient registry 15:15:36 Date: 03 March 2009 15:15:52 ... we've done a hand full of improvements. expect they are useful in general 15:15:58 ivan: ivan the elder 15:16:07 ... W3C semweb activity lead 15:16:13 ... 2nd contact 15:16:28 yimin: working in lilly singapore 15:16:44 ... working on data integration projects in lilly 15:16:58 ... looking for insert/delete, stuff like that 15:17:11 zakim, unmute Souri 15:17:11 sorry, LeeF, I don't know what conference this is 15:17:16 zakim, this is SPARQL 15:17:16 ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM 15:17:18 zakim, mute me 15:17:18 ivan should now be muted 15:17:21 zakim, unmute Souri 15:17:21 Souri should no longer be muted 15:17:43 souri: Souri Das, Oracle 15:18:27 souri: was part of DAWG. passionate about it as i expect it to be useful for DI in general 15:18:52 topic: liaisons 15:19:13 dom has left #sparql 15:19:22 LeeF, we might want a tracker intro under logistics 15:19:39 ericP, yes, i agree, but am not prepared to do it at the moment :) 15:19:44 AxelPolleres: liasons are supposed to connect us with other groups touching our work 15:20:07 ... need liasons with three W3C groups: 15:20:10 XQuery? 15:20:11 ... .. OWL 15:20:14 ... .. RIF 15:20:19 ... .. RdfRDB 15:20:21 HCLS interest group 15:20:27 ... any other suggestions? 15:20:31 s/RdfRDB/RDB2RDF/ 15:20:47 ... would like liason status update at beginnings of meetings 15:21:03 I think it's overkill to do it each telecon...generally, there's fewer occasions to mention 15:21:06 q+ 15:21:24 souri2 has joined #sparql 15:21:25 zakim, unmute me 15:21:25 bijan should no longer be muted 15:21:43 ack bijan 15:21:56 RESOLVED: Bijan appointed OWL liason 15:21:57 Orri and I are in RDB2RDF 15:22:04 q+ to say i have good contact with HCLS 15:22:14 Bijan: additional liaison XQuery? 15:22:20 +1 to eric for liasing with HCLS 15:22:27 RESOLVED: ericP appointed HCLS liason 15:22:31 q+ can also liaise with OWL if bijan has a problem of timing, for example 15:22:46 RESOLVED: orri appointed RDB2RDF liason 15:22:58 RESOLVED: axel appointed RIF liason 15:23:29 ack me 15:23:31 ericP, you wanted to say i have good contact with HCLS 15:24:18 Should we "advertise" to them? maybe someone was interested to join us, at least to follow? 15:24:21 XQuery arealos working on full text search 15:24:33 zakim, mute ericP 15:24:33 EricP should now be muted 15:24:40 but i was locally muted 15:24:46 s/arealoo/are also/ 15:24:49 ericP: expect that we will need to touch XQuery if we import more XPath functions 15:24:51 topic: F2F 15:24:58 s/arealos/are also/ 15:25:23 LeeF: most folks have tougher travel restrictions than in the past 15:25:37 we will need to touch XQuery if we extend XQuery with SPARQL :) 15:25:37 ... don't expect to have our four meetings this year 15:25:56 ... hope to have a f2f a couple months from now when we settle on our deliverables 15:27:24 PROPOSED: host first f2f 5-6May in Cambridge, MA, USA -- (other telecon sites may be amendmants) 15:27:43 tues are potentially bad 15:28:09 May 6,7 is preferrable to me as well. Can make May 5 if necessary 15:28:25 I can't do tues easily 15:28:53 zakim, unmute ericP 15:28:53 EricP should no longer be muted 15:29:26 eric: rooms might be a problem 7-8 15:31:17 2 days 15:31:22 +1 2 days 15:31:24 2 days should be fine 15:31:28 +1 2 days 15:31:30 2 days (it is hard to keep up work of that intensity for 3 days) 15:31:40 May 6-7 is better for me. 2 days. 15:31:42 2 days unless it is clear 3 is needed 15:31:52 Can't do the 5th 15:31:58 (most likely) 15:32:07 no preference 15:32:24 okay, i can try to adapt 15:33:04 My US visa has expired so I'm probably missing the f2f. 15:33:14 let's tentatively fix 6-7 shall we also set up a questionaire? 15:33:15 +q to ask about multi site 15:33:56 no 15:34:00 I think chairs decision is fine 15:34:14 ack SteveH 15:34:14 SteveH, you wanted to ask about multi site 15:34:19 As long as it's announced far enough in advance...8 weeks 15:34:57 I can ask our comms people about a telecon link 15:35:07 I can ask about access grid access 15:35:27 zakim, mute ericP 15:35:27 EricP should now be muted 15:35:56 Pick other (U.K. / Europe?) site in the next week or two, please send possibilities to mailing list 15:36:27 PROPOSED: host first f2f 6-7May in Cambridge, MA, USA -- (other telecon sites may be amendmants) 15:36:39 What will be the hours for F2F? 15:36:41 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F1 15:36:49 q+ 15:36:56 q+ to mention video room availability 15:37:52 ack ericP 15:37:54 ericP, you wanted to mention video room availability 15:37:59 ack AxelPolleres 15:38:16 q+ 15:38:23 Manchester has a room 15:38:35 HP has one...I've seen it :) 15:39:10 ack ivan 15:40:41 zakim, mute ericP 15:40:41 EricP should now be muted 15:41:02 topic: use cases 15:41:24 use case 1: TPC-H 15:41:36 (we pass it in SPARQL :) 15:41:39 LeeF: 1st phase: define what features we want to work on 15:41:56 ... we're bound to 18 months, including spec, tests, impl report 15:42:13 ... likely a very small set. need to settle on them in the next month 15:42:25 q+ 15:42:38 Please indicate your availability for F2F1 on the wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F1 15:42:53 ... we're blurring the line between use case and feature 15:43:15 ... e.g. "peform aggregate functions", "query over arbitrary length tasks" 15:43:46 q+ to ask about outside contributions 15:43:51 ... we're not aiming for higher-level use cases, à la "Bob runs a stereo store..." 15:44:16 ... looking for examples, implementations 15:44:27 ack bijan 15:44:29 use case 2: a graph with Gantt chart, personal calendars and some trivial validation. 15:44:29 zakim, unmute me 15:44:29 bijan was not muted, bijan 15:44:34 ... need a champions who will speak in depth about the feature 15:44:52 bijan: would we do one req, or stagger them? 15:45:10 q+ 15:45:22 zakim, mute me 15:45:22 bijan should now be muted 15:45:36 LeeF: should we write todo list or a priority list? 15:45:38 zakim, unmute me 15:45:38 bijan should no longer be muted 15:45:47 bijan: i like getting things done 15:46:02 ... but there's value publicity of a slew of things 15:46:09 ... but if we can get stuff out 15:46:11 q+ 15:46:13 q+ 15:46:16 zakim, mute me 15:46:16 bijan should now be muted 15:46:48 AndyS: knocking off some easy ones would get the community engaged 15:46:52 +1 to AndyS 15:46:59 ack ivan 15:47:03 +1 to AndyS 15:47:04 ... i like to work on one thing at a time, and do i properly 15:47:16 ivan: short charter, and rec process takes time and energy 15:47:26 s/do i /do it / 15:47:30 ... publishing several things in a staggered way could backfire 15:47:42 q+ to answer 15:47:51 ... bijan, is the idea to pub sparql1,1, 1,2, 1.3? 15:47:52 zakim, unmute me 15:47:52 bijan should no longer be muted 15:48:05 http://www.w3.org/2009/01/sparql-charter.html#deliverables 15:48:09 +q 15:48:12 bijan, was wondering if we could modularize parts into specs. 15:48:24 zakim, mute me 15:48:24 bijan should now be muted 15:48:26 ... e.g. separate owl semantics spec 15:48:59 +Souri_Das 15:49:01 -Souri 15:49:01 ack ericP 15:49:11 The HTML5 spec indicates the stability levels of different *sections* of the spec...which might be good for implementors 15:49:13 LeeF: modularizing sounds great, if we can modularize ourselves 15:49:17 +1 to modularization (if it does not cause rework just for modulrity) 15:49:26 ack bijan 15:49:27 bijan, you wanted to answer 15:49:32 zakim, mute bijan 15:49:33 bijan should now be muted 15:49:35 zakim, mute me 15:49:35 bijan was already muted, bijan 15:50:38 ack AxelPolleres 15:50:44 RRSAgent, pointer? 15:50:44 See http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-irc#T15-50-44 15:50:47 ericP: could modularize sections, do tests and impl reports, and package as a spec when we get near the end 15:51:10 AxelPolleres: use cases should identify which spec they affect (e.g. protocol, xml results format) 15:51:25 ... we've listed deliverables in the charter. we're not bound to that? 15:51:42 LeeF: nope. our deliverables will fall out from our use cases 15:52:04 q+ to ask about terminology 15:52:16 ack iv_an_ru 15:52:57 iv_an_ru: not sure the final doc should be a single spec, e.g. SPARQL1.1 15:53:09 ... they [features] are more useful when used together 15:53:24 ... when i need business intelligence, i need it on everything 15:53:29 +1 to iv_an_ru 15:53:34 LeeF: don't expect us to break up core parts 15:54:07 q? 15:54:13 ack SteveH 15:54:13 SteveH, you wanted to ask about terminology 15:54:13 The spec shouldn't have everything it but neither should it be the minimal publishable unit 15:54:17 ... don't want to lose interop if all these features are on their own specs 15:54:21 Rightsizing! 15:55:01 SteveH: do we want use cases? 15:55:09 New features + rationale? 15:55:14 ... am nagged by calling features "use cases" 15:55:14 yes! 15:55:20