IRC log of aapi on 2009-02-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:42:04 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
15:42:09 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
15:42:21 [MichaelC]
meeting: ARIA User Agent Implementation Task Force
15:42:27 [MichaelC]
chair: Cynthia_Shelly
15:49:39 [davidb]
MichaelC, you just had to go change my channel topic didn't you.
15:57:47 [Zakim]
Team_(aapi)16:00Z has now started
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15:58:09 [davidb]
Zakim, ??P18 is David_Bolter
15:58:09 [Zakim]
+David_Bolter; got it
15:59:14 [davidb]
surkov: you can dial in now
15:59:32 [davidb]
s/surkov: you/ surkov, you
16:00:13 [Zakim]
16:00:13 [janina]
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16:01:01 [janina]
zakim, call janina
16:01:01 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
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16:01:37 [Andi]
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16:01:55 [cshelly]
16:01:55 [cshelly]
•Description of Work items
16:01:55 [cshelly]
•Discussion of timing requirements and priority for work items
16:01:55 [cshelly]
•Define next steps, including volunteering for tasks. Andi will be editing the WAI-ARIA 1.0 User Agent Implementation
16:01:55 [cshelly]
•General working style of the group
16:01:57 [cshelly]
•Meeting times going forward. I think every two weeks is probably about right, but would like to discuss.
16:04:18 [oedipus]
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16:04:31 [davidb]
MichaelC, you on the call?
16:04:35 [MichaelC]
16:04:42 [Zakim]
16:04:54 [Zakim]
16:04:59 [MichaelC]
both zakim dialout and dialin havnn't been working for me
16:05:05 [oedipus]
zakim, who is here?
16:05:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_Bolter, [IPcaller], Andi_Snow_Weaver, Janina, Cooper, Gregory_Rosmaita
16:05:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see oedipus, Andi, cshelly, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, MichaelC, surkov, davidb
16:05:41 [Joshue]
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16:05:54 [oedipus]
zakim, IPcaller is Cynthia_Shelly
16:05:54 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly; got it
16:05:59 [oedipus]
zakim, who is here?
16:05:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_Bolter, Cynthia_Shelly, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Janina, Cooper, Gregory_Rosmaita
16:06:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Joshue, oedipus, Andi, cshelly, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, MichaelC, surkov, davidb
16:06:43 [Zakim]
16:06:52 [Joshue]
zakim, ??P19 is Joshue
16:06:53 [Zakim]
+Joshue; got it
16:07:14 [oedipus]
scribe: Joshue
16:07:21 [oedipus]
ScribeNick: Joshue
16:07:41 [oedipus]
JOC: CFIT ( - user testing, research
16:07:43 [cshelly]
16:07:50 [Joshue]
scribenick: Joshue
16:08:20 [Joshue]
GJR: Been around a longtime :-)
16:08:34 [Joshue]
Mike: Team contact for PFWG
16:08:52 [Joshue]
TOPIC: Deliverables
16:09:05 [Joshue]
CS: I want to talk what people are interested in working on.
16:09:36 [Joshue]
CS: The list of deliverables are 1) The WAI ARIA User Implementations Guidelines.
16:09:55 [oedipus]
16:10:00 [Joshue]
CS: Aaron Lev has done the first draft. The reason this group has been created is to finish this work.
16:10:23 [Joshue]
CS: It is difficult for developers to know what to do with ARIA, so this is what these guidelines are for.
16:10:41 [Joshue]
CS: Other pieces, are the mappings between accessibility APIs etc.
16:11:02 [Joshue]
CS: There are various implementations but no real clear documentations etc.
16:11:21 [oedipus]
16:11:21 [oedipus]
* WAI-ARIA User Agent Implementation Guidelines, as a deliverable of the PFWG. This would be a Working Group Note and include a mapping of ARIA features to accessibility API features or some neutral abstraction. It is separate from the ARIA specification, but (if the User Agent Implementation Guidelines is on the Recommendation track) both documents should reach CR at the same time, as the user agent implementation guidelines is needed to document implementation
16:11:21 [oedipus]
* Mapping of HTML features to accessibility API features, as a deliverable of the HTML WG. The mapping needs to be developed together with the ARIA mapping in the previous deliverable, in order to ensure that the recommendations of these two mappings are consistent. This may be subsumed into one or another of the HTML5 deliverables.
16:11:24 [oedipus]
* The tests that are used to get WAI-ARIA through CR, as a deliverable of the PFWG.
16:11:27 [oedipus]
* The tests that are used to get HTML5 through CR, as a deliverable of the HTML WG.
16:11:28 [oedipus]
* Produce implementation guidance dealing with how access information from the formats is communicated to AT.
16:11:31 [oedipus]
* Test suite development to a degree which can be adjusted as the work progresses.
16:11:33 [oedipus]
* Propose additions and edits to the WAI-ARIA specification that are necessary to ensure user agent interoperability.
16:11:42 [Joshue]
CS: I would like to see these mappings become normative.
16:11:59 [oedipus]
16:12:15 [Joshue]
CS: There are other things here, DOM aspects, test suite development etc
16:13:00 [Joshue]
Justin: I think thats great.
16:13:37 [Joshue]
CS: Andy has agreed to edit these guidelines.
16:13:53 [Joshue]
16:14:11 [Joshue]
Andy: No real ideas yet, needs a lot of work to get finished.
16:14:37 [Joshue]
CS: There are docs online Mozilla etc..
16:14:52 [Joshue]
CS: We need to dig up everything out there and combine it.
16:15:05 [Joshue]
CS: We could assign different APIs and work on those.
16:15:16 [Joshue]
CS: What are other peoples experience?
16:15:28 [Joshue]
DB: Surkov and I could do Mozilla.
16:15:52 [Joshue]
CS: We hope to get people from Opera and Apple also.
16:16:20 [Joshue]
zakim, mute me
16:16:20 [Zakim]
Joshue should now be muted
16:16:31 [Joshue]
16:16:44 [Joshue]
CS: We should start with the mapping doc and implementors guide.
16:17:07 [Joshue]
PF: The PF will do that independently.
16:17:14 [Joshue]
16:17:33 [Joshue]
MC: Suggest the group does not do these tests themselves just yet.
16:17:57 [oedipus]
q+ to ask if can we leverage ????
16:18:01 [Joshue]
CS: I suggest that those who want to do the mapping work start with that.
16:18:50 [Joshue]
MC: Don't know when work, research will be done. It will take time, confs etc coming up. It is on the agenda. Others here may have ideas of what are appropriate tools etc.
16:19:01 [oedipus]
can we leverage ????
16:19:04 [Joshue]
CS: I see this all going into a large table.
16:19:44 [Joshue]
CS: We could have a separate doc for each API?
16:20:16 [Joshue]
MS: For each role you will need separate columns for each state and property etc. We see the HTML WG members also contributing.
16:20:29 [Joshue]
CS: We just need check in check out functionality.
16:20:41 [Joshue]
MC: That will be difficult, lets discuss that offline.
16:21:29 [Joshue]
MC: A blank table with ARIA roles and states would be a start. I could kick that off.
16:21:54 [oedipus]
Accessibility and Document Object Model Comparisons:
16:22:14 [Joshue]
CS: Does anyone know of a way to get a list of all of the specs elements and @'s?
16:22:18 [Joshue]
GJR: Which spec?
16:22:22 [oedipus]
i would use mikesmith's barebones markup
16:22:24 [Joshue]
16:22:38 [Joshue]
CS: Mike Smiths doc?
16:22:46 [Joshue]
GJR: Yes, I was gonna suggest that.
16:23:02 [Joshue]
CS: Who wants to do that?
16:23:12 [Joshue]
DB: Is there anyone on both teams.
16:23:19 [Joshue]
CS: I am, and GJR.
16:23:46 [Joshue]
I can work with GJR.
16:24:03 [Joshue]
CS: We can start that and share via mail etc.
16:24:15 [Joshue]
CS: We can get together every two week? That ok?
16:24:19 [oedipus]
16:24:20 [Joshue]
DB: Sure.
16:24:26 [oedipus]
ack oe
16:24:26 [Zakim]
oedipus, you wanted to ask if can we leverage ????
16:24:41 [Joshue]
MC: It would be good to share these mapping via email before meetings.
16:25:14 [Joshue]
DB: Am a little worried about working via email, could you sort something out with checkin/out.
16:25:23 [Joshue]
GJR: What about codetalks?
16:25:43 [Joshue]
GJR: There are confidentiality issues.
16:25:58 [Joshue]
MC: Codetalks is not a W3C resource.
16:26:00 [oedipus]
16:26:10 [oedipus]
GJR: we could also use the PF/XTech wiki
16:26:15 [Joshue]
MC: We could have a disclaimer about transfer to W3C space.
16:26:25 [oedipus]
16:26:27 [Joshue]
MC: If we do that, its prob ok to use codetalks.
16:26:38 [Joshue]
CS: This will be shortterm.
16:27:11 [oedipus]
ACTION: Gregory - compile complete list of elements and attributes in current PWD of HTML5
16:28:12 [oedipus]
should we be making RESOLUTIONs?
16:28:34 [Joshue]
Discussion on logistics of the UAI groups work
16:28:59 [Joshue]
DB: I didn't follow
16:29:28 [Joshue]
CS: We will 1) Set up a draft on W3C site and make me an editor and 2) set up a collaborative effort via Codetalks
16:29:59 [Joshue]
You could upload a MS or HTML doc to codetalks?
16:30:20 [Joshue]
DB: I will contact everyone with login details etc.
16:30:38 [oedipus]
RESOLVED: set up draft on W3C site for editors
16:31:01 [oedipus]
ACTION: DavidB - set up collaborative workspace on
16:31:23 [Joshue]
CS: Guidelines doc?
16:31:36 [Joshue]
Andy: Will go through a list and start with that.
16:31:53 [oedipus]
ACTTION: Andi - make list of ToDo in pertinent documents
16:32:04 [oedipus]
ACTION: Andi - make list of ToDo in pertinent documents
16:32:13 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Meetings
16:32:16 [Joshue]
CS: I am on the West coast.
16:32:22 [Joshue]
CS: Europeans.
16:32:40 [Joshue]
JS: We hope to get a few more.
16:32:44 [oedipus]
Joshue in Ireland, Steve Faulkner in England
16:32:50 [Joshue]
Andi: This time is good for me.
16:32:59 [Joshue]
This time is good for me also btw
16:33:17 [Joshue]
CS: I will send out a mail to everyone.
16:33:28 [oedipus]
ACTION: Cynthia - send email to UAI TF to all invitees proposing meeting dates and times
16:33:42 [Joshue]
CS: Does this time work for everyone?
16:33:56 [Joshue]
CS: If so we will have another meeting at the same time on March 13th.
16:34:20 [oedipus]
CS: first day of SXSW
16:34:30 [oedipus]
CS: anyone going to SXSW or CSUN2009?
16:35:08 [oedipus]
i/CS: first day/ScribeNick: oedipus
16:35:21 [oedipus]
MC: will be at SXSW
16:35:42 [oedipus]
JS: two weeks from today is fine -- 13 March 2009 1600h UTC
16:36:22 [cshelly]
16:36:27 [Joshue]
GJR: What was the ID tag u wanted?
16:36:32 [oedipus]
CS: email exchanges should take place on XTech Mailing list with subject tag [AAPI]
16:36:48 [oedipus]
CS: covered agenda - anything else?
16:37:08 [oedipus]
s/subject tag/subject prefix
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16:37:34 [oedipus]
zakim, please part
16:37:34 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were David_Bolter, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Janina, Cooper, Gregory_Rosmaita, Cynthia_Shelly, Joshue
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16:37:44 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:37:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
16:38:01 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make logs public
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rrsagent, stop