17:59:23 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:59:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/12-ua-irc 18:00:32 zakim, code? 18:00:32 sorry, jeanne, I don't know what conference this is 18:00:38 AllanJ has joined #ua 18:00:41 zakim, this is WAI_UA 18:00:41 ok, jeanne; that matches WAI_UAWG()1:00PM 18:00:46 zakim, code? 18:00:46 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne 18:01:15 +jeanne 18:01:19 JR has joined #ua 18:01:35 +AllanJ 18:01:43 zakim, who's here 18:01:43 jeanne, you need to end that query with '?' 18:01:46 KFord has joined #ua 18:01:50 zakim, who's here? 18:01:50 On the phone I see [Microsoft], jeanne, AllanJ 18:01:51 On IRC I see KFord, JR, AllanJ, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeanne, sharper, trackbot 18:01:53 zakim, code? 18:01:53 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), JR 18:02:12 zakim, [Micro is kford 18:02:12 +kford; got it 18:02:33 +Mark_Hakkinen 18:02:34 regrets+ Judy 18:02:51 regrets+ Alan 18:02:52 +??P10 18:03:05 zakim, ??P10 is really JR 18:03:05 +JR; got it 18:04:12 scribe: JR 18:04:31 +??P12 18:04:44 zakim, ??P12 is really sharper 18:04:44 +sharper; got it 18:08:57 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090209/ 18:09:09 Topic: Survey Results 18:09:57 mth has joined #ua 18:10:34 Topic: Lower the priority of point C in 3.83 to level AAA, creating a new point under 3.8. 18:10:58 action: JS to Update document to change the order of Guideline 1.1 and 1.2 as per the survey of http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090209/ 18:10:58 Created ACTION-125 - Update document to change the order of Guideline 1.1 and 1.2 as per the survey of http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090209/ [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19]. 18:11:39 JA: Basically moving "speech stress" to AAA 18:12:08 JA: The user can set the speech stress, overriding any values specified by the author 18:13:04 3.8.5 Speech Stress: The user can set the speech stress (the height of "local peaks" in the intonation contour of the voice), overriding any values specified by the author (Level AAA) 18:13:54 JS: Can this be done today? 18:13:59 JA: I think yes in Jaws 18:14:09 KF: Haven't heard of this 18:14:20 JA: Isn't this the rising of voice at question mark? 18:14:29 KF: OK 18:14:37 action: JS to update document 3.8.4 to move (c) to a new SC 3.8.5 to say"3.8.5 Speech Stress: The user can set the speech stress (the height of "local peaks" in the intonation contour of the voice), overriding any values specified by the author (Level AAA)" 18:14:37 Created ACTION-126 - Update document 3.8.4 to move (c) to a new SC 3.8.5 to say\"3.8.5 Speech Stress: The user can set the speech stress (the height of \"local peaks\" in the intonation contour of the voice), overriding any values specified by the author (Level AAA)\" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19]. 18:15:04 Topic: Glossary Proposal - platform accessibility architecture 18:16:03 JA: Only point of contention is DOM sentence 18:18:21 JR: on some platform the accessibility API may not be rich enough, and AT assumes a DOM, it is closely related 18:18:32 Q+ 18:18:47 JS: so, if no AAPI then must implement a DOM 18:19:26 JR: No...just saying it supplements 18:19:58 KF: Not disagreeing...just would say that maybe this sentence should go into the definition of DOM 18:20:12 q+ if this is that important, it needs to be in a SC, and not in a definition that people may never see. 18:20:43 q+ to if this is that important, it needs to be in a SC, and not in a definition that people may never see. 18:21:01 ack kford 18:21:50 JS: If this is so important, doesn't it need to be in a success criteria somewhere 18:22:01 JA: We do....reads from... 18:22:20 JS: No in particular this point about the DOM 18:22:53 JA: Reads from ... 18:23:05 JS: What we are saying in the defintion is not clear in SC 18:23:26 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/UAAG20-20090121-ED/#principle-AT-access 18:23:32 KF: We do make various mentions of this 18:24:13 MH: OK with proposal 18:24:17 KF: OK with me 18:24:24 JA: OK let's keep it as is 18:24:48 JS: To me it does not come across clearly in GL2 18:24:57 JA: Can you phrase an issue about this? 18:25:05 JS: Yes 18:25:36 Action JS: Use new defn of platform accessibility architecture 18:25:36 Created ACTION-127 - Use new defn of platform accessibility architecture [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19]. 18:25:55 Topic: alert 18:25:56 issue: In the definition of platform accessibility architecture, the final sentence refers to the need for a DOM. Make sure this concept is clearly covered by Principle 2 18:25:56 Created ISSUE-32 - In the definition of platform accessibility architecture, the final sentence refers to the need for a DOM. Make sure this concept is clearly covered by Principle 2 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/32/edit . 18:27:25 JR: Agree with comments 18:27:34 JA: SHall we hjust use KFs phrase 18:28:15 MH: My concern is that alerts are out of the contecxt of the primary content...status bar, popup etc 18:28:28 MH: Thought initial defn was too wide 18:29:04 To make the user aware of information. User acknowledgement may or may not be required. 18:30:38 JA: Also might be in address bar 18:31:49 q+ 18:31:50 JR: Does alert refer to user agent developer alerts or author alerts 18:32:04 ack jeanne 18:32:04 jeanne, you wanted to if this is that important, it needs to be in a SC, and not in a definition that people may never see. 18:32:33 SH: Is there not another related definition 18:33:02 SH: Is there anything about confirmation dialogs? 18:33:42 JR: There is also prompt- requiring info from user 18:34:38 MH: I jhust felt there was a missing element when we talked about alert 18:34:51 KF: Alert and prompt to me are the same thing 18:34:56 MH: Alert is transitory 18:35:05 KF: Can be 18:35:25 KF: Like spelling errors 18:35:35 MH: "Server busy.Try again." 18:35:50 ack KFord 18:35:51 KF: "Server busy, do you want to try again?" 18:36:09 KF: To me they are all alerts 18:37:00 JA: I think we are agreed on the user may or may not need to be acknowledged 18:37:11 SH: Alert is just highlighting 18:37:32 SH: Prompt is something that requires some interaction...generate input 18:37:53 SH: I'm wondering if "alert" should be used here 18:38:22 JA: MH could you take action item? 18:38:23 MH: Yes 18:38:44 KF: What I hear is that we could really clarify alert+prompt at the same time 18:38:59 +1 for the direction Simon was heading. 18:39:40 Action MH: Write a proposal encompassing for both alert and prompt 18:39:40 Created ACTION-128 - Write a proposal encompassing for both alert and prompt [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2009-02-19]. 18:40:00 Topic: alternative content 18:40:46 JS: "Equivalent" not really the right word 18:42:50 q+ 18:43:26 JR: BTW I'm not stuck on on "equivalent alternative" 18:43:27 ack KFord 18:43:52 KF: Don't like "equivalent alternative"...prefer "alternative content" 18:43:57 JR:+1 18:44:02 MH:+1 18:44:27 SH: Are we saying alternative content could be anything? Like alt with random characters 18:44:30 +1 18:44:41 SH: It's not in any way an equivalent 18:44:58 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/UAAG20-20090121-ED/Overview.html#def-conditional-content 18:45:31 KF: But the defn says "essentially the same function or purpose" so it can't just be garbage 18:46:21 JR: reads ATAG def 18:46:29 Content that is used in place of other content that a person may not be able to access. An equivalent alternative fulfills essentially the same function or purpose as the original content. Examples include text alternatives for non-text content, captions for audio, audio descriptions for video, sign language for audio, media alternatives for time-based media. See WCAG for more information 18:47:12 SH:+1 18:48:03 -kford 18:48:17 Content that is used in place of other content that a person may not be able to access. Alternative content fulfills essentially the same function or purpose as the original content. Examples include text alternatives for non-text content, captions for audio, audio descriptions for video, sign language for audio, media alternatives for time-based media. See WCAG for more information 18:48:50 Action JS: Use Alternative Content: > Content that is used in place of other content that a person may not be able to access. Alternative content fulfills essentially the same function or purpose as the original content. Examples include text alternatives for non-text content, captions for audio, audio descriptions for video, sign language for audio, media alternatives for time-based media.... 18:48:51 Created ACTION-129 - Use Alternative Content: > Content that is used in place of other content that a person may not be able to access. Alternative content fulfills essentially the same function or purpose as the original content. Examples include text alternatives for non-text content, captions for audio, audio descriptions for video, sign language for audio, media alternatives for time-based media.... [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19]. 18:48:52 ...See WCAG for more information 18:49:17 Action JR: Suggest to AUWG change "equivalent alternative" to "alternative content" 18:49:17 Created ACTION-130 - Suggest to AUWG change \"equivalent alternative\" to \"alternative content\" [on Jan Richards - due 2009-02-19]. 18:49:33 Topic: Animation 18:50:34 Action JS: Use Animation: Graphical content that is rendered such that it can automatically change over time, potentially giving the user a visual perception of movement. Examples include video, animated images, scrolling text, programmatic animation (e.g., moving or replacing rendered objects). 18:50:34 Created ACTION-131 - Use Animation: Graphical content that is rendered such that it can automatically change over time, potentially giving the user a visual perception of movement. Examples include video, animated images, scrolling text, programmatic animation (e.g., moving or replacing rendered objects). [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19]. 18:50:47 Topic: applet 18:51:14 MH: Takes back answer - agrees to delete 18:51:22 Action JS: Delete "Applet" 18:51:22 Created ACTION-132 - Delete \"Applet\" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19]. 18:51:36 Topic: application programming interface (API) 18:52:31 MH: Wants to capture the rest of the text of first paragraph somewhere 18:52:45 JA: Maybe in "Understanding" doc 18:52:50 MH: Or Techniques doc 18:53:23 issue: API include the following in techniques or understanding document. "Implementing APIs that are independent of a particular operating environment (as are the W3C DOM Level 2 specifications) may reduce implementation costs for multi-platform user agents and promote the development of multi-platform assistive technologies. Implementing conventional APIs for a particular operating... 18:53:23 Created ISSUE-33 - API include the following in techniques or understanding document. \"Implementing APIs that are independent of a particular operating environment (as are the W3C DOM Level 2 specifications) may reduce implementation costs for multi-platform user agents and promote the development of multi-platform assistive technologies. Implementing conventional APIs for a particular operating... ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI 18:53:24 ...environment may reduce implementation costs for assistive technology developers who wish to interoperate with more than one piece of software running on that operating environment." 18:54:08 Action JS: Use application programming interface (API): An application programming interface (API) defines how communication may take place between applications. 18:54:08 Created ACTION-133 - Use application programming interface (API): An application programming interface (API) defines how communication may take place between applications. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19]. 18:55:43 JA: I think its important to remove AT from being a user agent 18:56:45 JR: Ask for ATAG2 defn to go into next weeks survey 18:56:49 JA: OK 18:57:21 Action JS: Add ATAG2 defn of Assistive Technology to survey 18:57:21 Created ACTION-134 - Add ATAG2 defn of Assistive Technology to survey [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19]. 18:57:34 Topic: audio 18:58:25 MH: Would like something about live 18:58:46 From WCAG2: audio 18:58:48 the technology of sound reproduction 18:58:50 Note: Audio can be created synthetically (including speech synthesis), recorded from real world sounds, or both. 18:59:09 MH: "live audio" or a combination 18:59:43 JR: understand about problems with captioning of live audio 19:00:11 -JR 19:00:15 -jeanne 19:03:46 -Mark_Hakkinen 19:03:48 -sharper 19:04:10 MH: original definition is inadequate, need something about 'live' audio 19:04:24 jim were you starting to speak when i hung up? 19:04:50 give me 2 minuts 19:04:52 minutes 19:05:06 sharper has left #ua 19:05:37 action: MH to propose definition of 'audio' to include 'live' audio 19:05:37 Created ACTION-135 - Propose definition of 'audio' to include 'live' audio [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2009-02-19]. 19:06:02 rrsagent: make minutes 19:06:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/12-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 19:06:29 rrsagent, set logs public 19:06:56 -AllanJ 19:06:57 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 19:06:58 Attendees were [Microsoft], jeanne, AllanJ, kford, Mark_Hakkinen, JR, sharper 19:11:00 AllanJ has left #ua 20:27:08 mth has left #ua 20:58:29 Zakim has left #ua