IRC log of ua on 2009-02-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:59:23 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:59:23 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/12-ua-irc
18:00:32 [jeanne]
zakim, code?
18:00:32 [Zakim]
sorry, jeanne, I don't know what conference this is
18:00:38 [AllanJ]
AllanJ has joined #ua
18:00:41 [jeanne]
zakim, this is WAI_UA
18:00:41 [Zakim]
ok, jeanne; that matches WAI_UAWG()1:00PM
18:00:46 [jeanne]
zakim, code?
18:00:46 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne
18:01:15 [Zakim]
+jeanne
18:01:19 [JR]
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18:01:35 [Zakim]
+AllanJ
18:01:43 [jeanne]
zakim, who's here
18:01:43 [Zakim]
jeanne, you need to end that query with '?'
18:01:46 [KFord]
KFord has joined #ua
18:01:50 [jeanne]
zakim, who's here?
18:01:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], jeanne, AllanJ
18:01:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see KFord, JR, AllanJ, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeanne, sharper, trackbot
18:01:53 [JR]
zakim, code?
18:01:53 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), JR
18:02:12 [jeanne]
zakim, [Micro is kford
18:02:12 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
18:02:33 [Zakim]
+Mark_Hakkinen
18:02:34 [jeanne]
regrets+ Judy
18:02:51 [AllanJ]
regrets+ Alan
18:02:52 [Zakim]
+??P10
18:03:05 [JR]
zakim, ??P10 is really JR
18:03:05 [Zakim]
+JR; got it
18:04:12 [JR]
scribe: JR
18:04:31 [Zakim]
+??P12
18:04:44 [sharper]
zakim, ??P12 is really sharper
18:04:44 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
18:08:57 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090209/
18:09:09 [JR]
Topic: Survey Results
18:09:57 [mth]
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18:10:34 [JR]
Topic: Lower the priority of point C in 3.83 to level AAA, creating a new point under 3.8.
18:10:58 [jeanne]
action: JS to Update document to change the order of Guideline 1.1 and 1.2 as per the survey of http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090209/
18:10:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-125 - Update document to change the order of Guideline 1.1 and 1.2 as per the survey of http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090209/ [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19].
18:11:39 [JR]
JA: Basically moving "speech stress" to AAA
18:12:08 [JR]
JA: The user can set the speech stress, overriding any values specified by the author
18:13:04 [AllanJ]
3.8.5 Speech Stress: The user can set the speech stress (the height of "local peaks" in the intonation contour of the voice), overriding any values specified by the author (Level AAA)
18:13:54 [JR]
JS: Can this be done today?
18:13:59 [JR]
JA: I think yes in Jaws
18:14:09 [JR]
KF: Haven't heard of this
18:14:20 [JR]
JA: Isn't this the rising of voice at question mark?
18:14:29 [JR]
KF: OK
18:14:37 [jeanne]
action: JS to update document 3.8.4 to move (c) to a new SC 3.8.5 to say"3.8.5 Speech Stress: The user can set the speech stress (the height of "local peaks" in the intonation contour of the voice), overriding any values specified by the author (Level AAA)"
18:14:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-126 - Update document 3.8.4 to move (c) to a new SC 3.8.5 to say\"3.8.5 Speech Stress: The user can set the speech stress (the height of \"local peaks\" in the intonation contour of the voice), overriding any values specified by the author (Level AAA)\" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19].
18:15:04 [JR]
Topic: Glossary Proposal - platform accessibility architecture
18:16:03 [JR]
JA: Only point of contention is DOM sentence
18:18:21 [AllanJ]
JR: on some platform the accessibility API may not be rich enough, and AT assumes a DOM, it is closely related
18:18:32 [KFord]
Q+
18:18:47 [AllanJ]
JS: so, if no AAPI then must implement a DOM
18:19:26 [JR]
JR: No...just saying it supplements
18:19:58 [JR]
KF: Not disagreeing...just would say that maybe this sentence should go into the definition of DOM
18:20:12 [jeanne]
q+ if this is that important, it needs to be in a SC, and not in a definition that people may never see.
18:20:43 [jeanne]
q+ to if this is that important, it needs to be in a SC, and not in a definition that people may never see.
18:21:01 [jeanne]
ack kford
18:21:50 [JR]
JS: If this is so important, doesn't it need to be in a success criteria somewhere
18:22:01 [JR]
JA: We do....reads from...
18:22:20 [JR]
JS: No in particular this point about the DOM
18:22:53 [JR]
JA: Reads from ...
18:23:05 [JR]
JS: What we are saying in the defintion is not clear in SC
18:23:26 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/UAAG20-20090121-ED/#principle-AT-access
18:23:32 [JR]
KF: We do make various mentions of this
18:24:13 [JR]
MH: OK with proposal
18:24:17 [JR]
KF: OK with me
18:24:24 [JR]
JA: OK let's keep it as is
18:24:48 [JR]
JS: To me it does not come across clearly in GL2
18:24:57 [JR]
JA: Can you phrase an issue about this?
18:25:05 [JR]
JS: Yes
18:25:36 [JR]
Action JS: Use new defn of platform accessibility architecture
18:25:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-127 - Use new defn of platform accessibility architecture [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19].
18:25:55 [JR]
Topic: alert
18:25:56 [jeanne]
issue: In the definition of platform accessibility architecture, the final sentence refers to the need for a DOM. Make sure this concept is clearly covered by Principle 2
18:25:56 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-32 - In the definition of platform accessibility architecture, the final sentence refers to the need for a DOM. Make sure this concept is clearly covered by Principle 2 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/32/edit .
18:27:25 [JR]
JR: Agree with comments
18:27:34 [JR]
JA: SHall we hjust use KFs phrase
18:28:15 [JR]
MH: My concern is that alerts are out of the contecxt of the primary content...status bar, popup etc
18:28:28 [JR]
MH: Thought initial defn was too wide
18:29:04 [JR]
To make the user aware of information. User acknowledgement may or may not be required.
18:30:38 [JR]
JA: Also might be in address bar
18:31:49 [KFord]
q+
18:31:50 [JR]
JR: Does alert refer to user agent developer alerts or author alerts
18:32:04 [JR]
ack jeanne
18:32:04 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to if this is that important, it needs to be in a SC, and not in a definition that people may never see.
18:32:33 [JR]
SH: Is there not another related definition
18:33:02 [JR]
SH: Is there anything about confirmation dialogs?
18:33:42 [JR]
JR: There is also prompt- requiring info from user
18:34:38 [JR]
MH: I jhust felt there was a missing element when we talked about alert
18:34:51 [JR]
KF: Alert and prompt to me are the same thing
18:34:56 [JR]
MH: Alert is transitory
18:35:05 [JR]
KF: Can be
18:35:25 [JR]
KF: Like spelling errors
18:35:35 [JR]
MH: "Server busy.Try again."
18:35:50 [AllanJ]
ack KFord
18:35:51 [JR]
KF: "Server busy, do you want to try again?"
18:36:09 [JR]
KF: To me they are all alerts
18:37:00 [JR]
JA: I think we are agreed on the user may or may not need to be acknowledged
18:37:11 [JR]
SH: Alert is just highlighting
18:37:32 [JR]
SH: Prompt is something that requires some interaction...generate input
18:37:53 [JR]
SH: I'm wondering if "alert" should be used here
18:38:22 [JR]
JA: MH could you take action item?
18:38:23 [JR]
MH: Yes
18:38:44 [JR]
KF: What I hear is that we could really clarify alert+prompt at the same time
18:38:59 [KFord]
+1 for the direction Simon was heading.
18:39:40 [JR]
Action MH: Write a proposal encompassing for both alert and prompt
18:39:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-128 - Write a proposal encompassing for both alert and prompt [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2009-02-19].
18:40:00 [JR]
Topic: alternative content
18:40:46 [JR]
JS: "Equivalent" not really the right word
18:42:50 [KFord]
q+
18:43:26 [JR]
JR: BTW I'm not stuck on on "equivalent alternative"
18:43:27 [AllanJ]
ack KFord
18:43:52 [JR]
KF: Don't like "equivalent alternative"...prefer "alternative content"
18:43:57 [JR]
JR:+1
18:44:02 [JR]
MH:+1
18:44:27 [JR]
SH: Are we saying alternative content could be anything? Like alt with random characters
18:44:30 [AllanJ]
+1
18:44:41 [JR]
SH: It's not in any way an equivalent
18:44:58 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/UAAG20-20090121-ED/Overview.html#def-conditional-content
18:45:31 [JR]
KF: But the defn says "essentially the same function or purpose" so it can't just be garbage
18:46:21 [AllanJ]
JR: reads ATAG def
18:46:29 [JR]
Content that is used in place of other content that a person may not be able to access. An equivalent alternative fulfills essentially the same function or purpose as the original content. Examples include text alternatives for non-text content, captions for audio, audio descriptions for video, sign language for audio, media alternatives for time-based media. See WCAG for more information
18:47:12 [JR]
SH:+1
18:48:03 [Zakim]
-kford
18:48:17 [AllanJ]
Content that is used in place of other content that a person may not be able to access. Alternative content fulfills essentially the same function or purpose as the original content. Examples include text alternatives for non-text content, captions for audio, audio descriptions for video, sign language for audio, media alternatives for time-based media. See WCAG for more information
18:48:50 [JR]
Action JS: Use Alternative Content: >Content that is used in place of other content that a person may not be able to access. Alternative content fulfills essentially the same function or purpose as the original content. Examples include text alternatives for non-text content, captions for audio, audio descriptions for video, sign language for audio, media alternatives for time-based media....
18:48:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-129 - Use Alternative Content: >Content that is used in place of other content that a person may not be able to access. Alternative content fulfills essentially the same function or purpose as the original content. Examples include text alternatives for non-text content, captions for audio, audio descriptions for video, sign language for audio, media alternatives for time-based media.... [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19].
18:48:52 [JR]
...See WCAG for more information
18:49:17 [JR]
Action JR: Suggest to AUWG change "equivalent alternative" to "alternative content"
18:49:17 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-130 - Suggest to AUWG change \"equivalent alternative\" to \"alternative content\" [on Jan Richards - due 2009-02-19].
18:49:33 [JR]
Topic: Animation
18:50:34 [JR]
Action JS: Use Animation: Graphical content that is rendered such that it can automatically change over time, potentially giving the user a visual perception of movement. Examples include video, animated images, scrolling text, programmatic animation (e.g., moving or replacing rendered objects).
18:50:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-131 - Use Animation: Graphical content that is rendered such that it can automatically change over time, potentially giving the user a visual perception of movement. Examples include video, animated images, scrolling text, programmatic animation (e.g., moving or replacing rendered objects). [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19].
18:50:47 [JR]
Topic: applet
18:51:14 [JR]
MH: Takes back answer - agrees to delete
18:51:22 [JR]
Action JS: Delete "Applet"
18:51:22 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-132 - Delete \"Applet\" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19].
18:51:36 [JR]
Topic: application programming interface (API)
18:52:31 [JR]
MH: Wants to capture the rest of the text of first paragraph somewhere
18:52:45 [JR]
JA: Maybe in "Understanding" doc
18:52:50 [JR]
MH: Or Techniques doc
18:53:23 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-33 - API include the following in techniques or understanding document. \"Implementing APIs that are independent of a particular operating environment (as are the W3C DOM Level 2 specifications) may reduce implementation costs for multi-platform user agents and promote the development of multi-platform assistive technologies. Implementing conventional APIs for a particular operating... ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI
18:53:24 [AllanJ]
...environment may reduce implementation costs for assistive technology developers who wish to interoperate with more than one piece of software running on that operating environment."
18:54:08 [JR]
Action JS: Use application programming interface (API): An application programming interface (API) defines how communication may take place between applications.
18:54:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-133 - Use application programming interface (API): An application programming interface (API) defines how communication may take place between applications. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19].
18:55:43 [JR]
JA: I think its important to remove AT from being a user agent
18:56:45 [JR]
JR: Ask for ATAG2 defn to go into next weeks survey
18:56:49 [JR]
JA: OK
18:57:21 [JR]
Action JS: Add ATAG2 defn of Assistive Technology to survey
18:57:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-134 - Add ATAG2 defn of Assistive Technology to survey [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-02-19].
18:57:34 [JR]
Topic: audio
18:58:25 [JR]
MH: Would like something about live
18:58:46 [JR]
From WCAG2: audio
18:58:48 [JR]
the technology of sound reproduction
18:58:50 [JR]
Note: Audio can be created synthetically (including speech synthesis), recorded from real world sounds, or both.
18:59:09 [JR]
MH: "live audio" or a combination
18:59:43 [AllanJ]
JR: understand about problems with captioning of live audio
19:00:11 [Zakim]
-JR
19:00:15 [Zakim]
-jeanne
19:03:46 [Zakim]
-Mark_Hakkinen
19:03:48 [Zakim]
-sharper
19:04:10 [AllanJ]
MH: original definition is inadequate, need something about 'live' audio
19:04:24 [mth]
jim were you starting to speak when i hung up?
19:04:50 [mth]
give me 2 minuts
19:04:52 [mth]
minutes
19:05:06 [sharper]
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19:05:37 [AllanJ]
action: MH to propose definition of 'audio' to include 'live' audio
19:05:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-135 - Propose definition of 'audio' to include 'live' audio [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2009-02-19].
19:06:02 [AllanJ]
rrsagent: make minutes
19:06:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/12-ua-minutes.html AllanJ
19:06:29 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
19:06:56 [Zakim]
-AllanJ
19:06:57 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
19:06:58 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], jeanne, AllanJ, kford, Mark_Hakkinen, JR, sharper
19:11:00 [AllanJ]
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20:27:08 [mth]
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20:58:29 [Zakim]
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