IRC log of html-wg on 2009-01-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:57:35 [RRSAgent]
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16:57:35 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:57:37 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:57:39 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be HTML
16:57:39 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
16:57:40 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
16:57:40 [trackbot]
Date: 29 January 2009
16:57:59 [Zakim]
16:58:02 [Zakim]
16:58:04 [Zakim]
16:58:39 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
16:58:39 [Zakim]
ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:58:41 [Zakim]
16:59:16 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:59:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisWilson, Julian, Mike
17:01:05 [DanC]
regrets+ smedero
17:01:08 [Zakim]
17:01:20 [oedipus]
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17:01:48 [deane]
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17:01:59 [oedipus]
GJR offers aural regrets - has a nasty respiratory infection but will be here in IRC
17:02:02 [Zakim]
17:02:08 [Zakim]
17:02:13 [Lachy]
Zakim, I am ??P6
17:02:13 [Zakim]
+Lachy; got it
17:02:14 [DanC]
regrets+ GJR
17:02:23 [masinter]
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17:03:36 [Lachy]
17:03:47 [Joshue]
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17:03:53 [ChrisWilson]
agenda+ review open issues
17:04:08 [ChrisWilson]
agenda+ review pending review items
17:04:20 [ChrisWilson]
agenda+ review overdue action items
17:04:37 [ChrisWilson]
agenda+ ask for additional agenda items
17:04:39 [Lachy]
do you want to discuss the authoring guide today?
17:05:06 [DanC]
17:05:06 [trackbot]
ACTION-34 -- Lachlan Hunt to prepare "Web Developer's Guide to HTML5" for publication in some way, as discussed on 2007-11-28 phone conference -- due 2009-01-22 -- OPEN
17:05:06 [trackbot]
17:05:07 [pimpbot]
Title: ACTION-34 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:05:09 [ChrisWilson]
yup. That's action-34, showing up as overdue.
17:05:41 [ChrisWilson]
Need a scribe?
17:05:45 [ChrisWilson]
Any volunteers
17:05:54 [oedipus]
zakim, choose a victim
17:05:54 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Masinter
17:05:55 [ChrisWilson]
Bueller... Bueller... Bueller...
17:05:56 [Lachy]
scribenick Lachy
17:06:11 [ChrisWilson]
17:06:23 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, take up item 4
17:06:23 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "ask for additional agenda items" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
17:06:23 [DanC]
scribenick: Lachy
17:06:35 [ChrisWilson]
Anyone have anything to discuss today that's not in the tracker?
17:06:45 [oedipus]
17:06:59 [ChrisWilson]
ack oedipus
17:07:03 [ChrisWilson]
17:07:08 [oedipus]
how to log my D for DIALOGUE proposal -- issue, bug, what?
17:07:18 [Lachy]
GJR: If Sam gets here, I wouldn't mind a discussion of argumentation style on the mailing list
17:08:01 [masinter]
17:08:13 [DanC]
17:08:21 [oedipus]
ARIA already has aria-dialog deployed and dialog is a programmatic term, dialogue is a homonym, D is cleanest solution
17:08:46 [ChrisWilson]
oedipus: Add an issue, and since you've made the proposal, I would add an item to collect feedback with an end date - at that point, we should review and hand over to editor if we have consensus
17:08:55 [ChrisWilson]
s/item/action item/
17:08:57 [Zakim]
+ +1.519.378.aaaa
17:09:12 [DanC]
Zakim, aaaa is MurrayM
17:09:12 [Zakim]
+MurrayM; got it
17:09:55 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, close item 4
17:09:55 [Zakim]
agendum 4, ask for additional agenda items, closed
17:09:56 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:09:57 [Zakim]
1. review open issues [from ChrisWilson]
17:09:59 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, take up item 1
17:09:59 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "review open issues" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
17:10:04 [oedipus]
ChrisWilson: i am not on the issue logging team anymore - how to add?
17:10:40 [DanC]
Topic: ISSUE-65: HTML 5 spec update after 10 June 2008
17:10:50 [rubys]
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17:10:55 [Lachy]
CW: DanC, please get Gregory added to the issue logging system
17:11:09 [DanC]
Topic: ISSUE-65: HTML 5 spec update after 10 June 2008
17:11:12 [Lachy]
CW: I had an action to send mail to WG about issuing a new WD
17:11:21 [masinter]
I raised an objection
17:11:22 [Lachy]
CW: Everyone in agreement about new WD
17:11:26 [oedipus]
ChrisWilson: thank you
17:11:33 [dbaron]
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17:11:48 [Lachy]
Larry: I raised an objection on the mailing list
17:12:03 [Zakim]
17:12:10 [Lachy]
Larry: I want the spec to be held to the same level of concensus as Mike's proposal
17:12:18 [Zakim]
17:12:30 [dbaron]
Zakim, [Mozilla] has David_Baron
17:12:30 [Zakim]
+David_Baron; got it
17:12:49 [Lachy]
LH: The difference is that HTML5 has already been through FPWD status, and had a WG vote
17:13:06 [Lachy]
Larry: I think a new version needs more concesus than the previous
17:13:53 [masinter]
new features shouldn't be added until they are agreed
17:13:54 [Lachy]
CW: I'd like to think new WD's would increase the level of concensus
17:14:33 [Lachy]
CW: 2 options: 1. publish HTML5 now as another WD, 2. Send another poll to the group
17:14:48 [Lachy]
LH: Opposed to doing another poll
17:15:02 [Lachy]
Larry: you could also publish over my objection.
17:15:24 [rubys]
I prefer option 1
17:16:03 [deane]
I support option one
17:16:14 [ChrisWilson]
I believe we have sufficient concensus to publish then.
17:16:14 [MikeSmith]
DanC: yeah, I can
17:16:31 [oedipus]
q+ to ask what would the poll ask - release or no?
17:16:38 [masinter]
sufficient agreement, perhaps?
17:16:44 [masinter]
IETF uses 'rough consensus'
17:16:44 [MikeSmith]
there's not much that needs to be done as far as the HTML5 draft.. it's already ready to publish
17:16:44 [Lachy]
DanC: I think you're making a decision over someone's objection. I don't think we have concensus
17:16:50 [ChrisWilson]
17:17:18 [dbaron]
The process document is also pretty clear that concensus != unanimity.
17:17:24 [DanC]
17:17:27 [ChrisWilson]
we do not have unanimous consensus, Larry did object.
17:17:31 [oedipus]
17:17:32 [DanC]
"sufficient support" works.
17:17:47 [shepazu]
s/sufficient concensus /support support/
17:17:55 [dbaron]
17:17:57 [pimpbot]
Title: 3 General Policies for W3C Groups (at
17:18:01 [ChrisWilson]
ack oed
17:18:01 [Zakim]
oedipus, you wanted to ask what would the poll ask - release or no?
17:18:07 [ChrisWilson]
17:18:14 [ChrisWilson]
yes, I think that would effectively be the question
17:18:19 [dbaron]
Though I guess it does define consensus as without objection.
17:18:37 [shepazu]
yes, concensus != unanimity, but it implies that there are also no objections
17:19:04 [ChrisWilson]
okay. I declare a rathole, will try not to use term concensus, move on. :)
17:19:31 [DanC]
+1 publish diff doc as well
17:19:37 [shepazu]
concensus == everyone can live with it (I think)
17:19:40 [oedipus]
[fyi] another poll is a waste of time; we shouldn't be afraid to publish, because the introductary verbiage says: this is a work in progress, and other disclaimers -- let the public see what has been done and let them (and the WG) react to the new draft
17:19:45 [rubys]
+1 also to diff doc
17:19:50 [Lachy]
MS: We should also publish Anne's Differences doc
17:19:53 [oedipus]
plus 1 to DIFF doc
17:19:54 [ChrisWilson]
oedipus, I think the feeling is that a poll isn't really cost effective, as you said.
17:20:03 [masinter]
i have no objection to publishing the diff doc
17:20:05 [DanC]
consensus = sufficient support and no objections. consensus is valued but not required for W3C WG decisions.
17:20:09 [dbaron]
17:20:49 [Lachy]
CW: Do we need to get additional support, or consider it publishable?
17:21:03 [Lachy]
DanC: I think we have enough support to publish
17:21:14 [Joshue]
JOC: I also don't mind publishing the differences doc
17:21:28 [masinter]
i'm strongly in favor of publishing the diff document, even if the document itself weren't published
17:21:46 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to publish the HTML 5 spec and the diff document
17:21:59 [ChrisWilson]
17:21:59 [trackbot]
ISSUE-59 -- Should the HTML WG produce a separate document that is a normative language reference and if so what are the requirements -- OPEN
17:21:59 [trackbot]
17:22:00 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-59 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:22:00 [Lachy]
ACTION: MikeSmith to publish the spec and diff
17:22:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-101 - Publish the spec and diff [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2009-02-05].
17:22:03 [DanC]
ACTION: Mike publish update of html5 spec and "differences from html 4"
17:22:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-102 - Publish update of html5 spec and \"differences from html 4\" [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2009-02-05].
17:22:15 [DanC]
close action-102
17:22:15 [trackbot]
ACTION-102 Publish update of html5 spec and \"differences from html 4\" closed
17:22:42 [ChrisWilson]
17:22:42 [DanC]
Topic: ISSUE-59 (normative-language-reference)
17:22:55 [MikeSmith]
17:22:55 [trackbot]
ACTION-77 -- Michael(tm) Smith to lead HTML WG to response to TAG discussion and report back to TAG -- due 2009-01-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:22:55 [trackbot]
17:22:56 [pimpbot]
Title: ACTION-77 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:23:08 [DanC]
(action-77 is a sort of placeholder here)
17:23:51 [Lachy]
CW: Let's defer this discussion about publishing HTML5: The Markup Langauge till next week
17:24:25 [oedipus]
[fwiw] plus 1 to publishing HTML5: The Markup Language in tandem with the PWD and the diff doc
17:25:28 [Lachy]
CW: Does anyone think we can do anything productive today on this topic?
17:25:33 [rubys]
not me
17:25:37 [deane]
17:25:42 [oedipus]
probably not
17:26:05 [oedipus]
[fwiw] this is one case where i don't mind executive decision by fiat
17:26:35 [Joshue]
JOC" +1 also to publishing the HTML 5 The Markup Language with the PWD and diff doc also
17:26:44 [ChrisWilson]
issue-54 and action-91?
17:26:51 [ChrisWilson]
17:26:51 [trackbot]
ISSUE-54 -- tools that can't generate <!DOCTYPE html> -- OPEN
17:26:51 [trackbot]
17:26:52 [pimpbot]
Title: ISSUE-54 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:26:54 [ChrisWilson]
17:26:54 [trackbot]
ACTION-91 -- Sam Ruby to propose 'legacy-compat' and report on feedback -- due 2009-01-29 -- OPEN
17:26:54 [trackbot]
17:26:55 [pimpbot]
Title: ACTION-91 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:26:56 [DanC]
Topic: ISSUE-54 (doctype-legacy-compat): tools that can't generate <!DOCTYPE html>
17:27:13 [rubys]
I think it it time to turn the feedback received over to the editor
17:27:27 [rubys]
we seem to have a number of options that nobody can find an issue with
17:27:37 [rubys]
all use SYSTEM, most use about:
17:27:44 [masinter]
i'm not sure the precondtions have been met
17:27:50 [rubys]
beyond that, I'd like to leave it to the editors discretion
17:27:56 [masinter]
the "about:" URI scheme registration isn't complete
17:27:56 [Lachy]
masinter, what preconditions?
17:28:06 [masinter]
it's in progress, but hasn't been finished
17:28:13 [rubys]
we can certainly review whatever is selected before publishing
17:28:24 [rubys]
define finished in this context?
17:28:48 [Lachy]
Larry: The registration hasn't been submitted to IANA yet
17:28:54 [masinter]
or has it?
17:28:54 [Lachy]
... for about: URI
17:28:55 [Julian]
17:28:58 [ChrisWilson]
ack J
17:29:31 [rubys]
I am ok with it going into a draft with the understanding that an IANA registration will be pursued
17:29:41 [DanC]
(I suggest Larry or Julian take an action to track registration)
17:29:44 [Lachy]
Julian: I'm not sure the completion state of registration is a show stopper
17:29:51 [masinter]
i agree it isn't
17:31:03 [Lachy]
Larry: The IETF has a process that needs to be followed, and should be registered first. But I'm fine with putting it in tentatively
17:31:20 [Julian]
17:31:21 [DanC]
+1 move ISSUE-54 (doctype-legacy-compat) to PENDINGREVIEW (i.e. hand it to the editor) contingent on registration of about:
17:31:22 [Lachy]
CW: I think either Larry or Julian should take an action to track the progress of registration
17:31:23 [ChrisWilson]
ack j
17:31:32 [Lachy]
Julian: I think Lachlan is an author
17:31:41 [gsnedders]
There is other stuff that is spending IANA registration, FWIW.
17:31:57 [Lachy]
LH: I am
17:32:29 [masinter]
should take less than a month, because it is 'expert review'
17:32:50 [Lachy]
ACTION: Lachlan to track registration of about: URI scheme
17:32:50 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Lachlan
17:32:58 [xover]
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17:33:01 [Lachy]
ACTION: Lachy to track registration of about: URI scheme
17:33:01 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Lachy
17:33:04 [ChrisWilson]
Sam, it sounds like you can go ahead and pass off to editor on action-91.
17:33:07 [Lachy]
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17:33:19 [Lachy]
ACTION: Lachlan to track registration of about: URI scheme
17:33:19 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Lachlan
17:33:19 [rubys]
will do
17:33:40 [oedipus]
trackbot, status?
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17:35:05 [ChrisWilson]
Lachy: Dan's action-72 isn't due until tomorrow, and he's not quite done, so we'll discuss next week.
17:35:25 [DanC]
DanC: I think Hickson's proposal of 20 Dec satisfies all concerned re table headers; I just want to dot a few i's and cross a few t's, then I'll send the "are we all agreed?" msg
17:35:38 [ChrisWilson]
It looks like no further actions on open issues are due.
17:35:50 [ChrisWilson]
17:35:50 [trackbot]
ACTION-78 -- Larry Masinter to suggestion text for 1.5.4 Relationship to Flash, Silverlight, XUL and similar proprietary languages -- due 2009-01-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:35:50 [trackbot]
17:35:51 [pimpbot]
Title: ACTION-78 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:36:04 [DanC]
Topic: 1.5.4 Relationship to Flash, Silverlight, XUL and similar proprietary languages
17:37:09 [Lachy]
LH: There was a proposal sent to mailing list to revise section 1.5.4. Hixie said he'd get to it about Q3 this year
17:37:16 [ChrisWilson]
17:37:18 [pimpbot]
Title: Re: ACTION-78: Suggestion text for 1.5.4 from Ian Hickson on 2009-01-20 ( from January 2009) (at
17:37:49 [DanC]
(I'm looking at 0238 and I don't see proposed text)
17:38:01 [Lachy]
there wasn't proposed text. But a clear explanation of the problem
17:38:10 [dbaron]
Zakim, who is noisy?
17:38:12 [Lachy]
Hixie should be capable of writing text that matches the feedback
17:38:17 [DanC]
oh. then I can't evaluate whether I like it. never mind.
17:38:21 [Zakim]
dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Lachy (19%), MurrayM (5%), ChrisWilson (84%)
17:38:45 [Lachy]
17:38:46 [pimpbot]
Title: Re: ACTION-78: Suggestion text for 1.5.4 from Lachlan Hunt on 2009-01-19 ( from January 2009) (at
17:38:58 [Lachy]
that's the mail from me that identified the problem
17:39:15 [Lachy]
DanC: I'm willing to work with Lachlan to come up with something mutually agreeable
17:39:47 [Lachy]
LH: Why can't Hixie do it when he get's to it?
17:39:54 [Lachy]
DanC: I want it done before Q3
17:40:00 [Lachy]
CW: Leave Hixie's time for more valuable things
17:40:18 [rubys]
I'm OK with Q3
17:40:19 [DanC]
17:40:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-78 -- Larry Masinter to work with Lachlan on text for 1.5.4 Relationship to Flash, Silverlight, XUL and similar proprietary languages -- due 2009-02-05 -- OPEN
17:40:19 [trackbot]
17:40:20 [pimpbot]
Title: ACTION-78 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:40:53 [DanC]
17:40:54 [trackbot]
ACTION-78 -- Larry Masinter to work with Lachlan on text and heading for 1.5.4 Relationship to Flash, Silverlight, XUL and similar proprietary languages -- due 2009-02-05 -- OPEN
17:40:54 [trackbot]
17:40:55 [pimpbot]
Title: ACTION-78 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:41:06 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, close item 1
17:41:06 [Zakim]
agendum 1, review open issues, closed
17:41:07 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:41:08 [Zakim]
2. review pending review items [from ChrisWilson]
17:41:11 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, take up item 2
17:41:11 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "review pending review items" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
17:41:30 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, close item 2
17:41:30 [Zakim]
agendum 2, review pending review items, closed
17:41:31 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:41:32 [Zakim]
3. review overdue action items [from ChrisWilson]
17:41:34 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, take up item 3
17:41:34 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "review overdue action items" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
17:41:41 [ChrisWilson]
17:41:41 [trackbot]
ACTION-34 -- Lachlan Hunt to prepare "Web Developer's Guide to HTML5" for publication in some way, as discussed on 2007-11-28 phone conference -- due 2009-01-22 -- OPEN
17:41:41 [trackbot]
17:41:42 [pimpbot]
Title: ACTION-34 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:41:52 [Lachy]
17:41:53 [pimpbot]
Title: HTML 5 Reference (at
17:41:54 [DanC]
s/DanC: I'm willing/Larry: I'm willing/
17:42:04 [DanC]
Topic: Authoring guide
17:42:53 [Lachy]
17:42:54 [ChrisWilson]
LH: I started a major edit today, breaking in to three sections
17:42:55 [pimpbot]
Title: HTML 5 Reference (at
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17:43:24 [ChrisWilson]
LH: 1) getting started with HTML, 2) syntax, and 3) vocabulary and apis
17:43:50 [ChrisWilson]
LH: Take a look at the introduction, which should help clear up misconceptions about what it will contain
17:44:22 [DanC]
(I'd prefer that <!DOCTYPE html> came with some motivation... this claims to be a reference in the intro... I guess the motivation can go in a separate document...)
17:46:15 [ChrisWilson]
DanC: if you dont' put this in, it will still show up.
17:46:27 [Lachy]
17:46:28 [pimpbot]
Title: Example 01 (at
17:46:52 [ChrisWilson]
LH: the syntax section will discuss this more
17:47:20 [ChrisWilson]
perhaps put in a fwd ref, once the syntax section is done
17:47:20 [DanC]
(I'm still interested to give it a try without the fwd ref)
17:49:06 [Lachy]
17:49:07 [pimpbot]
Title: Opera: Web Standards Curriculum (at
17:49:51 [DanC]
Lachy, I'm glad you're making progress; sorry I'm coming across a little negative; it's partly frustration that I haven't made as much progress.
17:49:54 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, close item 3
17:49:54 [Zakim]
agendum 3, review overdue action items, closed
17:49:55 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
17:50:14 [ChrisWilson]
move to adjourn?
17:50:25 [Lachy]
DanC, I don't mind. Feel free to elaborate on your issues on the mailing list
17:50:30 [ChrisWilson]
17:50:32 [masinter]
sam please call me
17:50:36 [Zakim]
17:50:38 [Zakim]
17:50:48 [Zakim]
17:50:55 [ChrisWilson]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:50:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisWilson, Mike, Masinter, Lachy, DanC, MurrayM
17:50:55 [rubys]
larry, it may be a few minutes... but I will
17:51:15 [Zakim]
17:51:24 [MikeSmith]
trackbot, statue?
17:51:24 [trackbot]
Sorry, MikeSmith, I don't understand 'trackbot, statue?'. Please refer to for help
17:51:25 [pimpbot]
Title: IRC Trackbot (at
17:51:37 [MikeSmith]
trackbot: status?
17:52:00 [rubys]
I'd like Ian to be added to the trackbot list
17:52:12 [Lachy]
ACTION: LachlanHunt to track registration of about: URI scheme
17:52:12 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - LachlanHunt
17:52:19 [DanC]
action: Lachlan track registration of about: URI scheme
17:52:19 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Lachlan
17:52:22 [rubys]
even if he doesn't directly interact with the tool, we should track who is doing the work not who is tracking who is doing the work
17:52:23 [DanC]
trackbot, status
17:52:45 [Joshue]
Joshue has left #html-wg
17:52:51 [DanC]
action: Dan for Lachlan track registration of about: URI scheme
17:52:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-103 - For Lachlan track registration of about: URI scheme [on Dan Connolly - due 2009-02-05].
17:53:22 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, drop Mike
17:53:22 [Zakim]
Mike is being disconnected
17:53:23 [Zakim]
17:54:08 [Zakim]
17:54:13 [DanC]
17:54:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-103 -- Dan Connolly to track registration of about: URI scheme -- due 2009-02-05 -- OPEN
17:54:13 [trackbot]
17:54:14 [pimpbot]
Title: ACTION-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:54:43 [DanC]
17:54:43 [trackbot]
ACTION-103 -- Lachlan Hunt to track registration of about: URI scheme -- due 2009-02-05 -- OPEN
17:54:43 [trackbot]
17:54:44 [pimpbot]
Title: ACTION-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:55:07 [DanC]
model: action-103 due XXX
17:55:59 [DanC]
oedipus, I haven't looked at the D thingy; are you pretty confident there are others in the WG that want to track it?
17:56:02 [DanC]
17:56:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-103 -- Lachlan Hunt to track registration of about: URI scheme -- due 2009-03-05 -- OPEN
17:56:02 [trackbot]
17:56:03 [pimpbot]
Title: ACTION-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at
17:56:04 [Zakim]
17:56:07 [Zakim]
17:56:40 [DanC]
I'd like to think the D thingy can be worked out between you and the editor without escalating
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18:01:00 [DanC]
Zakim, drop me
18:01:00 [Zakim]
DanC is being disconnected
18:01:01 [Zakim]
HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
18:01:03 [Zakim]
Attendees were ChrisWilson, Julian, Mike, Masinter, DanC, Lachy, +1.519.378.aaaa, MurrayM, Shepazu, David_Baron
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22:06:59 [karl]
Like designers, if you give a programmer a problem with parameters, they’ll apply every bit of genius they have to solve it in the best possible way. If you tell them how to do it, you’ll suffer the wrath of an angry God. --
22:07:02 [pimpbot]
Title: Derek Powazek - Programmers are Tiny Gods (at
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Title: seths blog Blog Archive Mozilla DTD files, caveat emptor (at
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23:52:02 [Lachy]
karl, I don't understand how quoting the description of a Working Draft No Longer In Development from the process document is relevant to the intention of Working Draft still in active development that claims normativity, to reach a recommendation?
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