09:59:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
09:59:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc
09:59:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
09:59:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediafrag
09:59:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
09:59:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
09:59:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
09:59:09 <trackbot> Date: 28 January 2009
09:59:24 <jackjansen> jackjansen has joined #mediafrag
09:59:30 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jan/0061.html
09:59:32 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
09:59:39 <Zakim> +??P0
09:59:52 <mhausenblas> Zakim, P0 is me
09:59:52 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'P0'
09:59:59 <Zakim> +??P1
09:59:59 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ??P0 is me
10:00:00 <Zakim> +mhausenblas; got it
10:00:01 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
10:00:03 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
10:00:23 <Zakim> +raphael
10:00:33 <Zakim> +Yves
10:00:36 <mhausenblas> Zakim ??P1 is erik 
10:00:47 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ??P1 is erik 
10:00:47 <Zakim> +erik; got it
10:01:04 <davy> Zakim, davy is with erik
10:01:04 <Zakim> +davy; got it
10:01:30 <raphael> Chair: Erik
10:01:40 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #mediafrag
10:02:04 <jackjansen> zakim, code?
10:02:04 <Zakim> the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jackjansen
10:02:41 <Zakim> +Thierry
10:02:44 <raphael> Present: Erik, Raphael, Yves, Thierry, Michael, Jack, Silvia, Davy
10:03:07 <Zakim> + +06128012aaaa
10:03:16 <tmichel> zakim, mute me
10:03:16 <Zakim> sorry, tmichel, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
10:03:20 <raphael> zakim, aaaa is silvia
10:03:20 <Zakim> +silvia; got it
10:03:54 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:03:54 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
10:03:59 <Zakim> +jackjansen
10:04:06 <raphael> Scribe: Jack
10:04:11 <silvia> hi jack
10:04:14 <raphael> scribenick: jackjansen
10:04:34 <raphael> Present+: conrad_(irc)
10:05:08 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:05:08 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
10:06:08 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:06:08 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
10:06:26 <raphael> Topic: 1. Admin
10:06:31 <raphael> +1 for accepting minutes
10:06:37 <davy> +1
10:06:40 <erik> +1
10:06:43 <mhausenblas> +1
10:06:44 <Yves> +1
10:06:48 <jackjansen> rapphael: minutes accpeted?
10:06:55 <jackjansen> all: yes
10:07:03 <silvia> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
10:07:09 <jackjansen> s/rapphael/raphael
10:07:22 <jackjansen> raphael: should we change meeting slot for Dave?
10:07:24 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:07:24 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
10:07:50 <jackjansen> zakim, mute me
10:07:50 <Zakim> jackjansen should now be muted
10:07:55 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:07:55 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
10:09:17 <jackjansen> raphael: for now lets keep it as-is
10:10:20 <tmichel> zakim, unmute thietty
10:10:20 <Zakim> sorry, tmichel, I do not know which phone connection belongs to thietty
10:10:25 <jackjansen> yes
10:10:29 <mhausenblas> Michael: volunteers to review the MA doc
10:10:34 <tmichel> zakim, unmute Thierry
10:10:34 <Zakim> Thierry should no longer be muted
10:10:40 <jackjansen> action: michael to review Use Cases and Requirements for Ontology and API for Media Object 1.0
10:10:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - Review Use Cases and Requirements for Ontology and API for Media Object 1.0 [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-02-04].
10:11:50 <jackjansen> erik: agenda item 2, future participants
10:12:15 <jackjansen> raphael: blinx will not join.
10:12:36 <jackjansen> ... teleconf with dailymotion soon
10:13:44 <jackjansen> michael: wolfgang is interested, could be invited expert.
10:13:52 <raphael> Wolfgang Jochum
10:14:12 <jackjansen> raphael: mixup of wolfgangs.
10:14:27 <jackjansen> michael: ah! Will ask him today
10:14:49 <jackjansen> yves: no progress on google
10:14:58 <raphael> close ACTION-1
10:14:58 <trackbot> ACTION-1 Contact Google AC Rep re member of MediaFrag WG till next week closed
10:15:00 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:15:00 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
10:15:05 <jackjansen> close action 1
10:15:33 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:15:33 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
10:15:41 <jackjansen> close action 17
10:15:42 <raphael> close ACTION-17
10:15:42 <trackbot> ACTION-17 Find out with Philippe who from Google would be interested to join closed
10:16:10 <jackjansen> erik: will do final attempt for cisco
10:16:33 <jackjansen> ... also get guillaume on board again
10:16:48 <raphael> Topic: 3. Working Draft
10:16:51 <jackjansen> erik: agenda item 3
10:17:25 <jackjansen> raphael: template is ready, will email details
10:17:30 <raphael> short: media-frag-reqs
10:17:41 <mhausenblas> as already mentioned re ACTION-32 ... I can contribute as well to support you ... in case I've CVS access (got my CVS account set up for W3C ;)
10:17:54 <jackjansen> close action 33
10:18:10 <jackjansen> close action-33
10:18:12 <raphael> i will close the action manually as soon as I have the email to the group :-)
10:18:27 <jackjansen> not checked yet
10:18:43 <jackjansen> yves: if cvs access does not work mail me
10:19:54 <jackjansen> unmute me
10:19:58 <jackjansen> zakim, unmute me
10:19:58 <Zakim> jackjansen should no longer be muted
10:20:09 <raphael> Discussion about the syntax
10:20:20 <raphael> close ACTION-25
10:20:20 <trackbot> ACTION-25 Describe why smpte is the only frame accurate one closed
10:21:09 <raphael> Jack: we need SMPTE for frame accuracy
10:21:17 <raphael> Dave: we only need rationale numbers
10:21:41 <Yves> s/rationale/rational
10:22:06 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:22:06 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
10:22:31 <raphael> +1 with Jack for having SMPTE timecode only
10:22:41 <jackjansen> silvia: rational numbers not used often
10:22:52 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:22:52 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
10:22:55 <jackjansen> ... smpte is better
10:23:04 <jackjansen> close action 25
10:23:10 <jackjansen> close action-25
10:23:10 <trackbot> ACTION-25 Describe why smpte is the only frame accurate one closed
10:23:17 <jackjansen> zakim, mute me
10:23:17 <Zakim> jackjansen should now be muted
10:24:01 <jackjansen> raphael: on to action 27, units to use (pixels, cm, inch, etc)
10:24:05 <jackjansen> yves: will work on it
10:24:24 <jackjansen> zakim, unmute me
10:24:24 <Zakim> jackjansen should no longer be muted
10:25:31 <jackjansen> zakim, mute me
10:25:31 <Zakim> jackjansen should now be muted
10:25:34 <raphael> Results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXSEPARATOR/results
10:25:52 <jackjansen> jack: nothing done yet on 28
10:25:54 <raphael> 6 for ampersand, 1 for semi-colon
10:26:14 <jackjansen> erik: separators.
10:26:28 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:26:28 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
10:27:19 <jackjansen> silvia: there is a bit of an issue with thousands separators. Let's state we do not use them.
10:27:28 <raphael> +1
10:27:48 <Yves> +1 to not using thousands separators
10:27:54 <jackjansen> +1
10:28:37 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:28:37 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
10:29:08 <jackjansen> raphael: primary separator: 6 votes for &, one for ;
10:29:14 <jackjansen> ... others please vote
10:30:14 <jackjansen> raphael: reololution: primary separator is ampoersand
10:30:30 <raphael> RESOLUTION: primary separator will be the ampersand character
10:30:38 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:30:38 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
10:30:53 <mhausenblas> zakim, draft minutes
10:30:53 <Zakim> I don't understand 'draft minutes', mhausenblas
10:30:57 <raphael> Second poll: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXRECTANGLE/results
10:31:10 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:31:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:31:12 <jackjansen> erik: rects has silvia as odd-man-out
10:31:29 <jackjansen> silvia: css does not use xywh. it uses trbl
10:31:30 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, make minutes public
10:31:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', mhausenblas.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
10:31:41 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, make records public
10:31:47 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:31:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:32:09 <mhausenblas> s/RESOLUTION: p/RESOLVED: p
10:32:12 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:32:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:32:54 <jackjansen> raphael: in email I said we should allow trbl and xywh
10:33:39 <jackjansen> RESOLVED: primary separator will be the ampersand character
10:34:19 <jackjansen> silvia: maybe do all
10:35:05 <jackjansen> raphael: lets doo all for the first wd
10:35:10 <jackjansen> s/doo/do
10:35:16 <jackjansen> ... let the community decide
10:35:19 <raphael> raphael: I suggest to put ijn the WD the various possibilities, and let the community decide
10:35:21 <mhausenblas> +1
10:35:27 <erik> +1
10:35:28 <jackjansen> +1
10:35:29 <davy> +1
10:35:29 <silvia> +1
10:35:32 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:35:32 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
10:35:48 <raphael> next poll results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXQUOTE/results
10:35:51 <jackjansen> RESOLUTION: will do all 4 schemes for the first working draft and let the community decide
10:36:04 <jackjansen> erik: next one: the quotes
10:36:22 <jackjansen> zakim, unmute me
10:36:22 <Zakim> jackjansen should no longer be muted
10:36:47 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:36:47 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
10:37:00 <mhausenblas> just for the record, as I guess we will not be able to approach agenda item 4 today anymore
10:37:25 <mhausenblas> I've created an issue now for the registry stuff, see http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3
10:37:26 <Yves> ike & -> &amp; " -> &#XX;
10:37:34 <Yves> s/ike/like/
10:37:58 <jackjansen> zakim, mute me
10:37:58 <Zakim> jackjansen should now be muted
10:38:14 <jackjansen> silvia: double quotes are not allowed in urls according to spec.
10:38:24 <jackjansen> ... will also check for &, while we're at it
10:39:07 <jackjansen> erik: everybody says optional, except michael. 
10:40:31 <jackjansen> michael: not too strong an opinion. I'm fine with optional
10:40:48 <jackjansen> RESOLUTION: quotes are optional. Single or double tbd
10:40:57 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:40:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:41:03 <jackjansen> RESOLVED: quotes are optional. Single or double tbd
10:41:19 <jackjansen> silvia: ampersand is allowed (unlike double quote)
10:41:27 <silvia> sub-delims    = "!" / "$" / "&" / "'" / "(" / ")"
10:41:27 <silvia>                  / "*" / "+" / "," / ";" / "="
10:41:27 <silvia>    gen-delims    = ":" / "/" / "?" / "#" / "[" / "]" / "@"
10:41:27 <silvia>    sub-delims    = "!" / "$" / "&" / "'" / "(" / ")"
10:41:27 <silvia>                  / "*" / "+" / "," / ";" / "="
10:42:54 <jackjansen> zakim, unmute me
10:42:54 <Zakim> jackjansen should no longer be muted
10:42:55 <silvia> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt
10:43:21 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:43:21 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
10:43:29 <raphael> raphael thinks that Silvia said that double quotes are simply forbidden as per RFC3986
10:43:31 <jackjansen> zakim, mute me
10:43:31 <Zakim> jackjansen should now be muted
10:43:47 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:43:47 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
10:43:58 <jackjansen> RESOLUTION: we use only single quotes as double are not in uri construction 
10:44:17 <raphael> +1
10:44:18 <erik> +1
10:44:21 <silvia> +1
10:44:21 <jackjansen> +1
10:44:23 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:44:23 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
10:45:22 <jackjansen> raphael: will send wrapup of feedback to list (
10:45:36 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, pick up agenda item 4
10:45:36 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'pick up agenda item 4', mhausenblas.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
10:45:37 <jackjansen> raphael: action 22 can be closed
10:45:45 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, pick up item 4
10:45:45 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'pick up item 4', mhausenblas.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
10:45:48 <jackjansen> close action-22
10:45:48 <trackbot> ACTION-22 Complete the table, trying to get the answer for the current question marks, except when this is a close format closed
10:46:05 <jackjansen> topic: 4. issues
10:46:16 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:46:16 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
10:46:44 <mhausenblas> Zakim, pick up agenda item 4
10:46:44 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick up agenda item 4', mhausenblas
10:47:07 <raphael> discussion about ISSUE-1: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/1
10:47:28 <mhausenblas> Zakim, take up agenda item 4
10:47:28 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
10:47:43 <jackjansen> silvia: summarizes mail discussion, we want scenario 3
10:47:47 <mhausenblas> agenda?
10:48:28 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jan/0061.html
10:48:33 <mhausenblas> agenda?
10:49:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:49:26 <jackjansen> jack: violently agrees with silvia
10:49:55 <jackjansen> raphael: will summarize
10:50:13 <silvia> zakim, mute me
10:50:13 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
10:50:15 <jackjansen> action: raphael to summarize comnining time clipping dicsusion
10:50:15 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - raphael
10:50:38 <jackjansen> zakim, unmute me
10:50:38 <Zakim> jackjansen should no longer be muted
10:50:38 <raphael> trackbot, list people
10:50:38 <trackbot> Sorry, raphael, I don't understand 'trackbot, list people'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
10:51:00 <raphael> trackbot, status
10:51:41 <jackjansen> action: raphaël to summarize clip-combining discussion
10:51:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-37 - Summarize clip-combining discussion [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-02-04].
10:51:52 <jackjansen> zakim, unmute me
10:51:52 <Zakim> jackjansen was not muted, jackjansen
10:51:58 <raphael> ISSUE-2: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/2
10:51:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-2 What is the mime type of a media fragment? What is its relation with its parent resource? notes added
10:52:06 <mhausenblas> q+
10:52:14 <jackjansen> erik: on to mime types for fragments
10:52:26 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ack me
10:52:27 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
10:54:13 <mhausenblas> Michael: question is blurry, for me more issues, I've created ISSUE-3 re the registry part of it
10:54:58 <raphael> Yves: when  we create a new representation (new mime-type), we create a new resource
10:55:04 <jackjansen> yves: new mimetype means new resource
10:55:24 <silvia> +1
10:55:25 <jackjansen> michael: sounds good
10:55:29 <jackjansen> +1
10:55:33 <davy> +1
10:55:34 <erik> +1
10:56:13 <jackjansen> url, anyone, for issue in tracker/
10:56:31 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
10:56:31 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
10:56:42 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-3: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3
10:56:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-3 Does our MF URI syntax imlpy that we need to update MIME Type registrations? notes added
10:57:42 <jackjansen> silvia: this goes beyond our scope
10:58:22 <raphael> registry is not possible since we do not own the mime types jpg, jpg2000, avi, mov, etc.
10:59:02 <jackjansen> michael: but if we follow specs to the letter we must.
10:59:08 <silvia> http://example.com/image.jpg#trbl=2,4,4,6
10:59:25 <jackjansen> ... need to show we have addressed this issue (even if by ignoring it because we cannot fix it)
11:00:22 <raphael> Silvia: temporalURI had the same problem ...
11:00:40 <jackjansen> Folks, I have to leave.
11:00:42 <raphael> Silvia: we did that for ogg because we own the format
11:00:45 <jackjansen> Can someone pick up minuting?
11:01:00 <raphael> scribenick: raphael
11:01:01 <jackjansen> ok. l8r!
11:01:09 <Zakim> -jackjansen
11:01:35 <raphael> Silvia: I do not agree we have a problem here ... we have discussed that from the beginning
11:01:44 <raphael> Michael: we have 2 different opinions
11:01:57 <raphael> ... I think Raphael said 'we do not care'
11:02:05 <raphael> ... and I say we should care
11:03:20 <raphael> Raphael: I said, we stick in the general framework of RFC3986, unspecified semantics
11:03:35 <mhausenblas> +1
11:04:33 <raphael> Raphael: should we write a paragraph to state what we aim for ?
11:04:44 <raphael> Michael: yes, I volunteer to do draft that
11:04:50 <mhausenblas> Michael: sorry for missinterpreting Raphael, ack his wording
11:06:17 <silvia> +1
11:06:19 <raphael> ACTION: Michael to draft a paragraph that will solve ISSUE-3
11:06:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-38 - Draft a paragraph that will solve ISSUE-3 [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-02-04].
11:06:23 <mhausenblas> +1
11:07:17 <Zakim> -erik
11:07:18 <Zakim> -Yves
11:07:19 <Zakim> -Thierry
11:07:21 <Zakim> -raphael
11:07:26 <raphael> RRSAgen, draft minutes
11:07:27 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
11:07:34 <raphael> RRSAgent, draft minutes
11:07:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
11:07:35 <mhausenblas> Michael: notes to himself re action 4 that he needs to include the sentence 'we don't own specs, so general case applies;
11:07:42 <Zakim> -silvia
11:07:43 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
11:07:44 <Zakim> Attendees were mhausenblas, raphael, Yves, erik, davy, Thierry, +06128012aaaa, silvia, jackjansen
11:07:46 <mhausenblas> [adjourned]
11:07:52 <raphael> RRSAgent, draft minutes
11:07:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
11:08:43 <mhausenblas> Zakim, bye
11:08:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediafrag
11:08:48 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, byw
11:08:48 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'byw', mhausenblas.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
11:08:52 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, bye
11:08:52 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
11:08:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: michael to review Use Cases and Requirements for Ontology and API for Media Object 1.0 [1]
11:08:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc#T10-10-40
11:08:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: raphael to summarize comnining time clipping dicsusion [2]
11:08:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc#T10-50-15
11:08:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: raphaël to summarize clip-combining discussion [3]
11:08:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc#T10-51-41
11:08:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to draft a paragraph that will solve ISSUE-3 [4]
11:08:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc#T11-06-19