IRC log of swd on 2009-01-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:55:10 [RRSAgent]
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15:55:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-irc
15:55:14 [TomB]
rrsagent, bookmark
15:55:14 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-irc#T15-55-14
15:55:19 [TomB]
zakim, this will be swd
15:55:19 [Zakim]
ok, TomB; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:27 [TomB]
Meeting: SWD WG
15:55:32 [TomB]
Chair: Tom
15:56:01 [TomB]
rrsagent, please make record public
15:56:13 [TomB]
Regrets: Margherita
15:56:46 [TomB]
Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/01/20-swd-minutes.html
15:56:51 [TomB]
Chair: Guus
15:56:59 [TomB]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:56:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-minutes.html TomB
15:58:32 [Ralph]
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SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
15:59:20 [Zakim]
+??P48
15:59:27 [TomB]
zakim, ??p48 is me
15:59:27 [Zakim]
+TomB; got it
15:59:32 [Zakim]
+Ralph
15:59:36 [Zakim]
-TomB
15:59:36 [Zakim]
+TomB
15:59:52 [seanb]
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16:01:04 [aliman]
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16:01:28 [Ralph]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0081.html
16:02:14 [Zakim]
+veronique
16:02:34 [Guus]
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16:02:38 [Ralph]
zakim, veronique is really Guus
16:02:48 [Antoine]
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16:03:10 [Zakim]
+Guus; got it
16:03:16 [Zakim]
+aliman
16:05:34 [Guus]
zakim, who is here?
16:05:45 [Ralph]
scribe: Ralph
16:05:55 [Zakim]
+ +31.20.420.aaaa
16:05:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TomB, Ralph, Guus, aliman, +31.20.420.aaaa
16:06:03 [Antoine]
Zakim, aaaa is me
16:06:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Antoine, Guus, aliman, seanb, Ralph, RRSAgent, Zakim, TomB
16:06:21 [Zakim]
+Antoine; got it
16:06:21 [Antoine]
zakim, mute me
16:06:35 [Ralph]
Topic: Admin
16:06:39 [Zakim]
Antoine should now be muted
16:07:45 [Ralph]
RESOLVED to accept minutes of 20-Jan meeting http://www.w3.org/2009/01/20-swd-minutes.html
16:07:59 [Ralph]
PROPOSED next telecon 10 Feb
16:08:25 [Ralph]
RESOLVED next telecon 10 Feb
16:08:48 [Ralph]
Guus: typo in the month in my agenda mail
16:09:08 [Ralph]
Topic: SKOS CR
16:09:19 [aliman]
ralph: when we enter last call...
16:09:35 [aliman]
...we are required to notify all other WGs, remind them of end data...
16:09:38 [aliman]
scribe:aliman
16:09:49 [aliman]
ralph: so if any WGs have comments, they get notice
16:10:00 [aliman]
...should sent message to chairs list
16:10:22 [aliman]
...I remembered to send message to wg about last call, should've also sent to chairs
16:10:30 [aliman]
scribe:ralph
16:10:42 [Ralph]
Guus: one editorial comment from I18N
16:10:48 [Ralph]
Alistair: yep, it's editorial
16:11:06 [Ralph]
Guus: propose to accept the change
16:11:59 [Ralph]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0069.html "Re: Request for feedback on SKOS Last Call Working Draft" [Felix Sasaki 2009-01-24]
16:13:00 [Ralph]
"editorial comment re: Japanese scripts"
16:13:36 [aliman]
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/188
16:13:45 [Ralph]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/188 issue-188
16:14:11 [Ralph]
PROPOSED: resolve issue-188 by accepting the commentor's edit
16:14:26 [Ralph]
RESOLVED issue-188 closed by accepting the commentor's edit
16:14:44 [Ralph]
ACTION: Alistair respond to Felix re: issue-188
16:16:21 [Ralph]
Topic: SKOS Primer
16:16:42 [Ralph]
Guus: does the Primer contain the same text about Japanese scripts?
16:16:46 [Ralph]
Antoine: don't think so
16:16:52 [Ralph]
Topic: SKOS Implementation Report
16:17:14 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: Guus to report on usage of SKOS in vocabularies at VU for SKOS implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action09]
16:17:42 [Ralph]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0080.html "SKOS usage at eCulture/Europeana" [Antoine 2009-01-27]
16:18:15 [Ralph]
Guus: the table Antoine cites might be a format we copy for our implementation report
16:19:13 [Ralph]
Antoine: we might improve this by allowing sort by column and by clustering the columns by general function
16:19:21 [Ralph]
... any feedback is welcom
16:19:38 [Ralph]
-> http://www.few.vu.nl/~ronny/eculture/skos-usage-eculture.html table of SKOS usage
16:19:51 [Ralph]
-> http://www.europeana.eu/portal/thought-lab.html Thought Lab portal
16:20:07 [Ralph]
Guus: This is the new European Union-funded portal
16:20:29 [Ralph]
... was presented in October to EU Ministries and got a lot of Press attention
16:20:35 [Ralph]
... 10m hits/hour on the first day
16:20:48 [Ralph]
... re-opened end of December with increased server capacity
16:21:09 [Ralph]
... Thought Lab is the experimental SemWeb implementation; gets several thousand hits/day
16:22:15 [Ralph]
... Thought Lab is a public demonstrator with data from 3 institutions; Rijksmuseum Amsterdam, Musee du Louvre, Netherlands Institute for Art History
16:23:11 [Ralph]
[PENDING] ACTION: Sean to report on SKOSED for SKOS implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:23:11 [Ralph]
16:23:42 [Ralph]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0064.html "application in indexing and search" [Johan De Smedt 2009-01-23]
16:24:00 [Ralph]
Guus: Johan's message is applicable to our implementation report; notes two checkers
16:24:01 [Zakim]
+Ben_Adida
16:24:54 [Ralph]
Alistair: I can take a look and maybe provide feedback
16:25:03 [ed]
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16:25:20 [Ralph]
s/notes/thread includes notes on
16:25:51 [Zakim]
+[LC]
16:26:03 [ed]
zakim, LC is edsu
16:26:03 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
16:26:14 [Ralph]
Guus: need someone to volunteer as editor for implementation report
16:26:47 [Ralph]
Ralph: I was hoping Sean would take this :)
16:26:51 [Ralph]
Guus: I'll ask Sean
16:27:08 [Ralph]
Alistair: I'm totally maxed out, sorry
16:28:15 [Ralph]
Guus: I may ask someone not currently in the group
16:28:37 [Ralph]
ACTION: Guus discuss with Sean editors for the SKOS implementation report
16:28:49 [Ralph]
Topic: RDFa
16:29:04 [Ralph]
Ben: we're actively working on updating the use cases in the wiki
16:29:18 [Ralph]
... and Michael will update the Note based on the wiki content
16:29:41 [Ralph]
... a lot of the wiki update is motivated by discussions with the HTML Working Group
16:30:36 [Ralph]
... the Task Force has onging work on providing guidance on how to make RDFa friendly to HTML
16:30:48 [Ralph]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]
16:31:03 [Ralph]
Topic: Recipes
16:31:10 [Ralph]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph to review the revised Recipes draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-swd-minutes.html#action15]
16:31:10 [Ralph]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]
16:31:47 [Ralph]
Topic: Metadata Note
16:31:59 [Ralph]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the metadata note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action03]
16:32:20 [Ralph]
Topic: Other Business
16:32:29 [Ralph]
[PENDING] ACTION: Guus to look at OWL documents for review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:32:45 [Ralph]
Guus: I've started this, hope to post a draft response by the end of the week
16:33:47 [Ralph]
... a short summary of my comments: (a) the number of additional features provided is useful for characterizing SKOS properties
16:34:10 [Ralph]
... (b) none of the documents are really accessible to a typical SKOS reader
16:34:25 [Ralph]
... (c) the documents appear to be very biased toward the -DL version of the language
16:34:42 [Ralph]
Ralph: I would concur with all three
16:34:45 [Ralph]
Alistair: me too
16:34:51 [TomB]
+1 on Guus's comments
16:35:41 [Ralph]
Topic: "Standard" vs. mapping relationships in Primer
16:36:54 [Ralph]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0048.html "Mapping" vs "standard" relationships [Tom 2009-01-13] start of thread
16:37:07 [TomB]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0077.html Antoine's message on 27 January
16:38:23 [Ralph]
Antoine: it's still difficult to evaluate; the discussion is around one sentence
16:38:34 [Ralph]
... whether to keep or remove or change this sentence
16:38:46 [Ralph]
... the discussion is still ongoing
16:39:00 [Ralph]
... but the conclusion will be easy to write once we agree
16:40:12 [Ralph]
Tom: the Primer currently in queue to be published seems to recommend the use of mapping relationships when enriching a vocabulary
16:40:20 [GuusS]
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16:40:55 [Ralph]
... the minimal approach taken in SKOS Reference makes a simpler distinction; it says only that you should use standard relationships when talking about relationships within a concept scheme and mapping relationships between schemes
16:41:28 [Ralph]
... the current editor's draft of the Primer suggests using mapping relationships when someone other than the owner is making relationships within a concept scheme
16:41:36 [Ralph]
... this appears to me to be a bit of an inconsistency
16:41:57 [Ralph]
... for the next version of the Primer it would be good to decide this
16:42:15 [Ralph]
... "enrichment within a concept scheme" is one suggestion
16:42:26 [Ralph]
... I would accept a minimum solution
16:42:57 [Ralph]
... if Antoine's point could be articulated in a way to satisfy everyone, I see some value in it
16:43:05 [Ralph]
Ed: what's the one sentence?
16:43:52 [TomB]
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/primer/primer-20090113.html
16:43:56 [GuusSch]
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16:43:56 [Ralph]
Antoine: the discussion started with a sentence about enrichment
16:44:08 [TomB]
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/primer/primer-20090113.html#secmapping
16:44:30 [Ralph]
Tom: see end of section 3.1
16:44:56 [Ralph]
... "However, the use of mapping properties might also be appropriate in cases where someone other than its owner needs to enrich the semantic relationships within a particular concept scheme."
16:45:07 [Ralph]
... the question is whether this goes beyond what SKOS Reference says
16:45:15 [Ralph]
Guus: what would be the problem in deleting the sentence?
16:45:19 [aliman]
Key section from SKOS Reference, http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20081001/#mapping section 10.6.1. Mapping Properties, Semantic Relation Properties and Concept Schemes, """By convention, the SKOS mapping properties are only used to link concepts in different concept schemes."""
16:45:28 [Ralph]
... we could see what practices are adopted
16:45:41 [Ralph]
... this doesn't sound like a necessary statement for a Primer
16:46:12 [Ralph]
Antoine: I didn't think this sentence was strongly enforcing a practice
16:46:40 [Ralph]
Guus: it's not a strong hint anyway; I'd feel more comfortable removing it.
16:47:08 [Ralph]
... if we had more time, I'd hope the document would be shorter :)
16:47:26 [Ralph]
... would dropping this sentence remove the problem?
16:47:31 [Ralph]
Alistair: think so
16:47:37 [Ralph]
Tom: looking at the preceeding sentence ...
16:48:17 [Ralph]
... the paragraph before isn't necessarily the best wording but I don't have anything better to suggest right now
16:48:31 [Ralph]
Guus: I suggest we drop the 'However ...' sentence from the Primer
16:48:54 [Ralph]
Antoine: OK with me
16:49:49 [Ralph]
Alistair: OK to drop
16:50:06 [Ralph]
Tom: OK to drop
16:50:42 [Ralph]
ACTION: SKOS Editors drop "However, the use of mapping properties might..." sentence from the primer
16:51:06 [Ralph]
s/primer/primer section 3.1
16:51:20 [Ralph]
[adjourned]
16:51:30 [Zakim]
-Ben_Adida
16:51:31 [ed]
TomB: thanks for the detailed look at Primer
16:51:32 [Zakim]
-aliman
16:51:36 [Zakim]
-Ralph
16:51:37 [Zakim]
-Antoine
16:51:40 [Zakim]
-edsu
16:51:57 [Zakim]
-TomB
16:52:04 [Antoine]
Antoine has left #swd
16:52:29 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:52:31 [Zakim]
Attendees were TomB, Ralph, Guus, aliman, +31.20.420.aaaa, Antoine, Ben_Adida, edsu
16:52:34 [Ralph]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:52:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-minutes.html Ralph
16:52:57 [Ralph]
regrets+ Sean
16:53:55 [Ralph]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:53:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-minutes.html Ralph
16:54:10 [Ralph]
rrsagent, bye
16:54:10 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-actions.rdf :
16:54:10 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair respond to Felix re: issue-188 [1]
16:54:10 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-irc#T16-14-44
16:54:10 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus discuss with Sean editors for the SKOS implementation report [2]
16:54:10 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-irc#T16-28-37
16:54:10 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: SKOS Editors drop "However, the use of mapping properties might..." sentence from the primer [3]
16:54:10 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-irc#T16-50-42
16:54:12 [Ralph]
zakim, bye
16:54:12 [Zakim]
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