15:55:10 RRSAgent has joined #swd 15:55:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-irc 15:55:14 rrsagent, bookmark 15:55:14 See http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-irc#T15-55-14 15:55:19 zakim, this will be swd 15:55:19 ok, TomB; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 15:55:27 Meeting: SWD WG 15:55:32 Chair: Tom 15:56:01 rrsagent, please make record public 15:56:13 Regrets: Margherita 15:56:46 Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/01/20-swd-minutes.html 15:56:51 Chair: Guus 15:56:59 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:56:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-minutes.html TomB 15:58:32 Ralph has joined #swd 15:59:13 SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started 15:59:20 +??P48 15:59:27 zakim, ??p48 is me 15:59:27 +TomB; got it 15:59:32 +Ralph 15:59:36 -TomB 15:59:36 +TomB 15:59:52 seanb has joined #swd 16:01:04 aliman has joined #swd 16:01:28 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0081.html 16:02:14 +veronique 16:02:34 Guus has joined #swd 16:02:38 zakim, veronique is really Guus 16:02:48 Antoine has joined #swd 16:03:10 +Guus; got it 16:03:16 +aliman 16:05:34 zakim, who is here? 16:05:45 scribe: Ralph 16:05:55 + +31.20.420.aaaa 16:05:57 On the phone I see TomB, Ralph, Guus, aliman, +31.20.420.aaaa 16:06:03 Zakim, aaaa is me 16:06:15 On IRC I see Antoine, Guus, aliman, seanb, Ralph, RRSAgent, Zakim, TomB 16:06:21 +Antoine; got it 16:06:21 zakim, mute me 16:06:35 Topic: Admin 16:06:39 Antoine should now be muted 16:07:45 RESOLVED to accept minutes of 20-Jan meeting http://www.w3.org/2009/01/20-swd-minutes.html 16:07:59 PROPOSED next telecon 10 Feb 16:08:25 RESOLVED next telecon 10 Feb 16:08:48 Guus: typo in the month in my agenda mail 16:09:08 Topic: SKOS CR 16:09:19 ralph: when we enter last call... 16:09:35 ...we are required to notify all other WGs, remind them of end data... 16:09:38 scribe:aliman 16:09:49 ralph: so if any WGs have comments, they get notice 16:10:00 ...should sent message to chairs list 16:10:22 ...I remembered to send message to wg about last call, should've also sent to chairs 16:10:30 scribe:ralph 16:10:42 Guus: one editorial comment from I18N 16:10:48 Alistair: yep, it's editorial 16:11:06 Guus: propose to accept the change 16:11:59 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0069.html "Re: Request for feedback on SKOS Last Call Working Draft" [Felix Sasaki 2009-01-24] 16:13:00 "editorial comment re: Japanese scripts" 16:13:36 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/188 16:13:45 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/188 issue-188 16:14:11 PROPOSED: resolve issue-188 by accepting the commentor's edit 16:14:26 RESOLVED issue-188 closed by accepting the commentor's edit 16:14:44 ACTION: Alistair respond to Felix re: issue-188 16:16:21 Topic: SKOS Primer 16:16:42 Guus: does the Primer contain the same text about Japanese scripts? 16:16:46 Antoine: don't think so 16:16:52 Topic: SKOS Implementation Report 16:17:14 [DONE] ACTION: Guus to report on usage of SKOS in vocabularies at VU for SKOS implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action09] 16:17:42 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0080.html "SKOS usage at eCulture/Europeana" [Antoine 2009-01-27] 16:18:15 Guus: the table Antoine cites might be a format we copy for our implementation report 16:19:13 Antoine: we might improve this by allowing sort by column and by clustering the columns by general function 16:19:21 ... any feedback is welcom 16:19:38 -> http://www.few.vu.nl/~ronny/eculture/skos-usage-eculture.html table of SKOS usage 16:19:51 -> http://www.europeana.eu/portal/thought-lab.html Thought Lab portal 16:20:07 Guus: This is the new European Union-funded portal 16:20:29 ... was presented in October to EU Ministries and got a lot of Press attention 16:20:35 ... 10m hits/hour on the first day 16:20:48 ... re-opened end of December with increased server capacity 16:21:09 ... Thought Lab is the experimental SemWeb implementation; gets several thousand hits/day 16:22:15 ... Thought Lab is a public demonstrator with data from 3 institutions; Rijksmuseum Amsterdam, Musee du Louvre, Netherlands Institute for Art History 16:23:11 [PENDING] ACTION: Sean to report on SKOSED for SKOS implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action10] 16:23:11 16:23:42 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0064.html "application in indexing and search" [Johan De Smedt 2009-01-23] 16:24:00 Guus: Johan's message is applicable to our implementation report; notes two checkers 16:24:01 +Ben_Adida 16:24:54 Alistair: I can take a look and maybe provide feedback 16:25:03 ed has joined #swd 16:25:20 s/notes/thread includes notes on 16:25:51 +[LC] 16:26:03 zakim, LC is edsu 16:26:03 +edsu; got it 16:26:14 Guus: need someone to volunteer as editor for implementation report 16:26:47 Ralph: I was hoping Sean would take this :) 16:26:51 Guus: I'll ask Sean 16:27:08 Alistair: I'm totally maxed out, sorry 16:28:15 Guus: I may ask someone not currently in the group 16:28:37 ACTION: Guus discuss with Sean editors for the SKOS implementation report 16:28:49 Topic: RDFa 16:29:04 Ben: we're actively working on updating the use cases in the wiki 16:29:18 ... and Michael will update the Note based on the wiki content 16:29:41 ... a lot of the wiki update is motivated by discussions with the HTML Working Group 16:30:36 ... the Task Force has onging work on providing guidance on how to make RDFa friendly to HTML 16:30:48 [PENDING] ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02] 16:31:03 Topic: Recipes 16:31:10 [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph to review the revised Recipes draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-swd-minutes.html#action15] 16:31:10 [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] 16:31:47 Topic: Metadata Note 16:31:59 [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the metadata note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action03] 16:32:20 Topic: Other Business 16:32:29 [PENDING] ACTION: Guus to look at OWL documents for review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10] 16:32:45 Guus: I've started this, hope to post a draft response by the end of the week 16:33:47 ... a short summary of my comments: (a) the number of additional features provided is useful for characterizing SKOS properties 16:34:10 ... (b) none of the documents are really accessible to a typical SKOS reader 16:34:25 ... (c) the documents appear to be very biased toward the -DL version of the language 16:34:42 Ralph: I would concur with all three 16:34:45 Alistair: me too 16:34:51 +1 on Guus's comments 16:35:41 Topic: "Standard" vs. mapping relationships in Primer 16:36:54 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0048.html "Mapping" vs "standard" relationships [Tom 2009-01-13] start of thread 16:37:07 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0077.html Antoine's message on 27 January 16:38:23 Antoine: it's still difficult to evaluate; the discussion is around one sentence 16:38:34 ... whether to keep or remove or change this sentence 16:38:46 ... the discussion is still ongoing 16:39:00 ... but the conclusion will be easy to write once we agree 16:40:12 Tom: the Primer currently in queue to be published seems to recommend the use of mapping relationships when enriching a vocabulary 16:40:20 GuusS has joined #swd 16:40:55 ... the minimal approach taken in SKOS Reference makes a simpler distinction; it says only that you should use standard relationships when talking about relationships within a concept scheme and mapping relationships between schemes 16:41:28 ... the current editor's draft of the Primer suggests using mapping relationships when someone other than the owner is making relationships within a concept scheme 16:41:36 ... this appears to me to be a bit of an inconsistency 16:41:57 ... for the next version of the Primer it would be good to decide this 16:42:15 ... "enrichment within a concept scheme" is one suggestion 16:42:26 ... I would accept a minimum solution 16:42:57 ... if Antoine's point could be articulated in a way to satisfy everyone, I see some value in it 16:43:05 Ed: what's the one sentence? 16:43:52 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/primer/primer-20090113.html 16:43:56 GuusSch has joined #swd 16:43:56 Antoine: the discussion started with a sentence about enrichment 16:44:08 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/primer/primer-20090113.html#secmapping 16:44:30 Tom: see end of section 3.1 16:44:56 ... "However, the use of mapping properties might also be appropriate in cases where someone other than its owner needs to enrich the semantic relationships within a particular concept scheme." 16:45:07 ... the question is whether this goes beyond what SKOS Reference says 16:45:15 Guus: what would be the problem in deleting the sentence? 16:45:19 Key section from SKOS Reference, http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20081001/#mapping section 10.6.1. Mapping Properties, Semantic Relation Properties and Concept Schemes, """By convention, the SKOS mapping properties are only used to link concepts in different concept schemes.""" 16:45:28 ... we could see what practices are adopted 16:45:41 ... this doesn't sound like a necessary statement for a Primer 16:46:26 ... but could agree that this sort of hint is not appropriate for a Primer 16:46:40 Guus: it's not a strong hint anyway; I'd feel more comfortable removing it. 16:47:08 ... if we had more time, I'd hope the document would be shorter :) 16:47:26 ... would dropping this sentence remove the problem? 16:47:31 Alistair: think so 16:47:37 Tom: looking at the preceeding sentence ... 16:48:17 ... the paragraph before isn't necessarily the best wording but I don't have anything better to suggest right now 16:48:31 Guus: I suggest we drop the 'However ...' sentence from the Primer 16:48:54 Antoine: OK with me 16:49:49 Alistair: OK to drop 16:50:06 Tom: OK to drop 16:50:42 ACTION: SKOS Editors drop "However, the use of mapping properties might..." sentence from the primer 16:51:06 s/primer/primer section 3.1 16:51:20 [adjourned] 16:51:30 -Ben_Adida 16:51:31 TomB: thanks for the detailed look at Primer 16:51:32 -aliman 16:51:36 -Ralph 16:51:37 -Antoine 16:51:40 -edsu 16:51:57 -TomB 16:52:04 Antoine has left #swd 16:52:29 SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended 16:52:31 Attendees were TomB, Ralph, Guus, aliman, +31.20.420.aaaa, Antoine, Ben_Adida, edsu 16:52:34 rrsagent, please draft minutes 16:52:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-minutes.html Ralph 16:52:57 regrets+ Sean 16:53:55 rrsagent, please draft minutes 16:53:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-minutes.html Ralph 16:54:10 rrsagent, bye 16:54:10 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-actions.rdf : 16:54:10 ACTION: Alistair respond to Felix re: issue-188 [1] 16:54:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-irc#T16-14-44 16:54:10 ACTION: Guus discuss with Sean editors for the SKOS implementation report [2] 16:54:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-irc#T16-28-37 16:54:10 ACTION: SKOS Editors drop "However, the use of mapping properties might..." sentence from the primer [3] 16:54:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-swd-irc#T16-50-42 16:54:12 zakim, bye 16:54:12 Zakim has left #swd