IRC log of tt on 2009-01-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:01:50 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tt
15:01:50 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/23-tt-irc
15:01:52 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:01:52 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #tt
15:01:54 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DFXP
15:01:55 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see IA_(DFXP)10:00AM already started
15:01:55 [trackbot]
Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
15:01:55 [trackbot]
Date: 23 January 2009
15:02:00 [Zakim]
+Plh
15:02:32 [Zakim]
+ +0147383aaaa
15:03:12 [plh]
zakim, ??p15 is Glenn
15:03:12 [Zakim]
+Glenn; got it
15:03:18 [plh]
zakim, aaaa is John
15:03:18 [Zakim]
+John; got it
15:05:25 [Zakim]
+ +0154558aabb
15:05:43 [plh]
zakim, aabb is Sean
15:05:43 [Zakim]
+Sean; got it
15:06:02 [Zakim]
+??P2
15:06:29 [plh]
zakim, ??p2 is David
15:06:29 [Zakim]
+David; got it
15:06:50 [plh]
Regrets: Andrew
15:10:17 [Zakim]
+ +04179827aacc
15:11:53 [plh]
zakim, aacc is Franz
15:11:53 [Zakim]
+Franz; got it
15:12:27 [plh]
scribe: plh
15:12:37 [plh]
Chair: Sean
15:12:40 [david]
david has joined #tt
15:12:48 [plh]
Sean: question 1:
15:12:50 [plh]
...
15:13:04 [plh]
... we have 2 yes, 2 no
15:13:27 [plh]
... the goal was to required the ttm: namespace elements to be nested
15:13:54 [plh]
Glenn: I believe they should be allowed outside the metadata elements
15:14:19 [plh]
Sean: the reason for this to come up: it's just easier if all the metadata is in one place
15:14:31 [plh]
... having it all over the place makes it more complex
15:15:06 [plh]
Glenn: the rationale was to support farm metadata as well.
15:16:05 [plh]
Sean: because the metadata element is called "metadata", I assumed that all metadata will go there
15:17:00 [plh]
Glenn: part of the reasons for having the metadata element was to support transformation processor to group metadata
15:17:16 [plh]
... ie having some grouping mechanisms
15:17:31 [plh]
... if a transformation combines metadata from two sources into one source
15:17:51 [plh]
... it might group them by origin in the result document
15:18:18 [plh]
Sean: it's not about having the metadata grouping element
15:18:32 [plh]
... if title is metadata, they should be in the metadata element
15:18:48 [plh]
... if not, then it should be moved out of the metadata namespace
15:19:30 [plh]
Glenn: it creates work to make a change now and it doesn't seem a significant issue to change now
15:19:49 [plh]
Sean: that's a cognitive issue. I'd expect to find all the metadata would be in the metadata element
15:20:15 [plh]
... how much work is it to move title out of the metadata namespace or within the metadata element
15:20:39 [plh]
Glenn: probably not that complex. change in the schema. that's substantive change, but it wouldn't be that difficult
15:20:57 [plh]
David: I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other
15:21:34 [plh]
... if we're going to put title in ttm, we identified it as metadata already, why moving it into metadata?
15:21:49 [plh]
Sean: since no one feels strongly, let's leave as-is
15:22:26 [plh]
Resolution: ISSUE-3 to be closed without change
15:22:53 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-5
15:23:56 [plh]
Sean: ISSUE-3 was about more than one metadata element, and ISSUE-5 is about direct children
15:24:43 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-4
15:25:15 [plh]
Resolution: we should allow the ttm attributes on the region element
15:26:29 [plh]
s/ISSUE-3 and ISSUE-5 to be closed if no objection from Geoff/
15:26:51 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-6
15:28:42 [plh]
Sean: the idea here is that we define fixed set of roles and if we want to extend, we would need to add values
15:29:08 [plh]
... agent is fairly complicated structure and you can point to that
15:29:21 [plh]
... having a role element would allow the same
15:29:28 [plh]
... there is no user defined role in the spec
15:30:07 [plh]
Glenn: there is an extension mechanism.
15:30:26 [plh]
Resolution: close ISSUE-6 without changes
15:31:05 [plh]
David: peharps we could simplify the actors as well...
15:31:32 [plh]
Glenn: are you suggesting a ttm:actor attribute?
15:32:08 [plh]
David: yes, ttm:agent is an IDREF that has to refer to the agent element
15:32:27 [plh]
Sean: should we wait on this and revisit issue-6 later?
15:32:49 [plh]
... let's keep close and reopen it later if necessary
15:33:11 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-7
15:33:31 [plh]
Sean: we inherited it from SMIL. that's the only abbrev form we have
15:33:53 [plh]
Glenn: we have an appendix that describe where our vocabulary comes from
15:34:08 [plh]
... ttm:desc comes from svg:desc
15:34:16 [plh]
Sean: why from svg?
15:34:39 [plh]
Glenn: we took a couple from them: metadata, set, desc, title comes from SVG
15:35:06 [plh]
... for the attributes, we referenced SMIL for some of them
15:35:21 [plh]
Sean: I prefer to have full word when we can
15:35:39 [plh]
... it would be cleaner to have a full word
15:35:51 [plh]
David: don't have a strong feeling. it's easier if it's full word
15:36:06 [plh]
... in this case, it's in metadata namespace.
15:36:45 [plh]
Glenn: SMIL, SMIL and XHTML are all consistent in using desc
15:36:58 [plh]
Resolution: ISSUE-7 is closed with no change
15:37:08 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-8
15:37:21 [plh]
skipped (needs Geoff around)
15:37:33 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-10
15:37:44 [plh]
skipped (needs Geoff around)
15:37:51 [plh]
Glenn: who proposed it?
15:37:54 [plh]
Sean: I did
15:38:36 [plh]
Glenn: we made design choice not to allow linking to external media
15:39:18 [plh]
Sean: we had a long discussion about that a while ago, fonts, images, audio, ... we decided we did not want that
15:39:29 [plh]
s/Sean/Glenn/
15:39:48 [plh]
Sean: I'm doing it in a private namespace right now, so not an issue
15:40:00 [plh]
Resolution: ISSUE-10 is postponed to v.next
15:40:11 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-11
15:40:54 [plh]
Resolution: we'll make the change
15:41:41 [plh]
ACTION: Glenn to fix inconsistency with regard to time container defaults
15:41:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-29 - Fix inconsistency with regard to time container defaults [on Glenn Adams - due 2009-01-30].
15:43:29 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-18
15:43:48 [plh]
Glenn: I could add an editorial note to clarify the semantic from SMIL
15:44:15 [plh]
ACTION: Glenn add an editorial note to clarify the semantic from SMIL for dur and end
15:44:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-30 - add an editorial note to clarify the semantic from SMIL for dur and end [on Glenn Adams - due 2009-01-30].
15:44:37 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-19
15:44:45 [plh]
Resolution: ISSUE-19 closed. no change.
15:45:11 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-20
15:45:27 [plh]
David: that seems late to make a change now
15:46:18 [plh]
Sean: we may reopne them if it's a major problem
15:46:35 [plh]
... happy to postpone to v.next
15:47:07 [plh]
ACTION: Philippe to foward CEA communication to the list
15:47:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-31 - Foward CEA communication to the list [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2009-01-30].
15:47:50 [plh]
Sean: check to make sure it's ok to make it public
15:48:24 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-26
15:49:54 [plh]
Glenn: [...] it's specified in the definition of overflow in the spec
15:50:06 [plh]
... [citing the spec]
15:50:44 [plh]
Sean: sounds reasonable. can we add a note on the scroll value to point to that text?
15:51:24 [plh]
Glenn: the scroll value is under the definition of the overflow, so it's already there
15:51:36 [plh]
Sean: we will remove that if we don't have dynamic flow?
15:51:39 [plh]
Glenn: yes
15:51:51 [plh]
Resolution: ISSUE-26 is closed. no change.
15:52:20 [plh]
Topic: ISSUE-27
15:52:36 [plh]
Glenn: we have some inconsistency indeed with XSL...
15:52:59 [plh]
... looks like we tried to make it more consistent with naming instead of XSL
15:53:21 [plh]
Sean: everybody said we should be consistent with XSL or we should document why not
15:53:32 [plh]
Glenn: I'm happy to make it consistent with XSL
15:53:42 [plh]
Resolution: ISSUE-27 to make it consistent with XSL
15:54:20 [plh]
Topic: Next steps
15:54:33 [plh]
Philippe: we look into creating a new questionnaire
15:56:28 [plh]
Topic: Namespace style
15:58:58 [Zakim]
-Glenn
16:06:22 [Zakim]
-Sean
16:06:23 [Zakim]
-Franz
16:06:25 [Zakim]
-John
16:06:25 [Zakim]
-David
16:06:52 [plh]
Glenn: we never fixed the namespace in the spec
16:07:11 [Zakim]
-Plh
16:07:13 [Zakim]
IA_(DFXP)10:00AM has ended
16:07:14 [Zakim]
Attendees were Plh, +0147383aaaa, Glenn, John, +0154558aabb, Sean, David, +04179827aacc, Franz
16:07:28 [plh]
Philippe: other groups usually fix it at CR by respect for implementators, unless they make significant changes
16:07:45 [plh]
Sean: we can be lenient for now in the test suite and fix it later
16:08:27 [plh]
Philippe: ok. as long as we demonstrate interop at the end of CR. We could a short version for namespace btw, e.g. http://www.w3.org/ns/dfxp
16:08:39 [plh]
Sean: would very much like to switch to that indeed
16:09:01 [plh]
Resolution: we'll use a short namespace (ie no year/month) by the end of CR
16:09:06 [plh]
[adjourned]
16:09:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/23-tt-minutes.html plh
17:40:07 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tt