15:01:16 RRSAgent has joined #wam 15:01:16 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-irc 15:01:21 mpriestl has joined #wam 15:01:23 rrsagent, make log public 15:01:23 + +44.208.849.aabb 15:01:35 zakim, aabb is David 15:01:35 +David; got it 15:01:47 Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference 15:01:51 Date: 22 January 2009 15:01:56 zakim, passcode? 15:01:58 the conference code is 9231 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), marcos 15:01:58 ScribeNick: ArtB 15:01:58 Scribe: Art 15:02:01 Chair: Art 15:02:15 Present: Art, Mark, Marcos, Jere, David, Bryan, Claudio 15:02:22 arve has joined #wam 15:02:29 Present+ Arve 15:02:38 Regrets: Frederick, Thomas 15:02:45 +Josh_Soref 15:02:52 +arve 15:02:53 Bryan has joined #wam 15:02:53 Present+ Josh 15:03:03 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0150.html 15:03:17 Topic: Review and tweak agenda 15:03:24 AB: want to add Boris' comments on P&C LC 15:03:31 ... Any objections to that addition? 15:03:37 [None] 15:03:43 AB: I gave Frederick and Thomas a headsup that we are not likely to get to DigSig to focus on P&C LC 15:03:58 JereK has left #wam 15:04:01 AB: any other change requests? 15:04:05 [None] 15:04:14 Topic: Annoucements 15:04:25 AB: Jan 31 is the deadline for P&C LC comments 15:04:48 MC: I will change affiliations on Feb 15, working for Opera 15:05:04 abraun has joined #wam 15:05:16 AB: good luck in your PhD defense next week, Marcos 15:05:21 AB: any other annoucements? 15:05:23 [None] 15:05:34 Topic: P&C LCWD comments from Boris 15:06:12 JereK_ has joined #wam 15:06:16 AB: MC's reply to Boris is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0161.html 15:06:45 AB: do we have any major issues or show stoppers, Marcos? 15:06:49 MC: not really 15:06:52 benoit has joined #wam 15:07:01 + +1.919.536.aacc 15:07:03 ... but one reoccuring theme re file to mime type mapping 15:07:21 zakim, aacc is Andy 15:07:21 +Andy; got it 15:07:26 Present+ Andy 15:07:51 ... I added a new rule for whitespace handling 15:08:33 ... I wrote a whitespace normalization 15:08:51 ...and remove whitespace removal rules 15:09:07 AB: is that it for Boris' comments on this VC? 15:09:15 MC: yes; I will do some more followup 15:09:23 +Caroline 15:09:34 Topic: P&C LCWD Comments from Benoit 15:09:39 Present+ Benoit 15:09:49 AB: Benoit's comments 15:10:04 AB: Mostly non-contentious; comment about window mode we will discuss later when we cover Mark's comments 15:10:25 AB: Marcos' proposes we drop plugin attribute (of element); any comments on that proposal? 15:10:33 ... see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0163.html 15:11:20 MC: I think it is to ambigous re what the plugin is 15:11:33 ... for example there could be natively installed plugins 15:11:50 ... I think it should be left as an impl detail 15:11:58 Arve: I'm not so sure 15:12:10 ... the problem isn't really with plugins themselves 15:12:27 ... the problem is 3rd party code running within the widget and security implications thereof 15:12:50 ... But given we don't have a well-defined security model, this could be considered a moot point 15:13:05 ... I do agree that plugin attribute may not be the appropriate word 15:13:07 -Caroline 15:13:32 MC: in a web browser, a plugin will run if it is installed; otherwise it won't 15:13:51 +Caroline 15:13:57 JS: just because Flahs is installed, doesn't mean it will run because it could be displayed 15:14:11 s/displayed/dis-abled/ 15:14:36 ... So the simple solution given no sec model, is indeed that we don't specify plugin 15:15:45 BS: want to know if an additional player is needed 15:15:50 ... e.g. audio player 15:16:47 Arve: one thing to consider is the API e.g. a feature requirement 15:17:48 AB: I propose we stop discussion now and follow-up on the mail list 15:17:52 AB: any objections? 15:17:57 no 15:17:59 Arve: no, seems reasonable 15:18:41 AB: are there other parts of Benoit's comments we want to discuss now? 15:18:58 BS: most of my comments were Editorial except for the modes stuff 15:19:12 ... Default size is another issue we need to discuss 15:19:30 MC: we need to think in terms of CSS pixels i.e. they scale 15:20:20 BS: I will submit a proposal to the list 15:20:51 ... I still need to check a few of Marcos' followups 15:21:12 Topic: P&C LCWD Comments from Mark 15:21:23 AB: some of Mark's comments apply to API & Events spec: 15:21:33 ... 15:21:41 ... There has already been some follow-up discussions on public-webapps by Arve 15:21:50 AB: propose we start with Window Modes 15:21:57 ... LC identifies 4 window modes: application, floating, fullscreen, docked 15:22:06 ... But clearly states this feature is at risk 15:22:39 BS: I proposed some wording changes i.e. their meaning 15:23:11 ... in some case size is relevant 15:23:32 Arve: there are other facets to consider e.g. can the widget be dragged 15:23:43 ... others are can it occupy full screen 15:24:00 MP: there is a diff between floating and big/small 15:24:22 BS: Dashboard default is floating 15:24:29 ... but Vista default is different 15:24:37 ... want the developer to decide 15:25:27 Opera's internal definition of 'floating' (Named widget: widget: The widget is typically rendered without user chrome, and the widget is assumed to have control over its own window size.) 15:25:34 MP: we need to define behavior too 15:25:54 And 'application': application: The widget is assumed to be rendered in a viewport size determined by the widget engine, optionally using the initial rendering dimensions specified in config.xml as a suggestion. Further, where applicable, the widget engine should also render application chrome. A widget implementation may render several widgets onscreen in this mode. 15:26:38 AB: Marcos, what are the relevant requirements here? 15:26:52 abraun has joined #wam 15:27:05 MC: I don't think we have any 15:27:18 AB: perhaps that's why we keep talking past each other 15:28:05 AB: I think we need clear reqs before we try to specify something 15:28:36 AB: is anyone willing to take an Action to create requirements? 15:28:44 MP: I'm willing to do that 15:29:00 ACTION: Mark create an input regarding Window Mode requirements 15:29:00 Created ACTION-291 - Create an input regarding Window Mode requirements [on Mark Priestley - due 2009-01-29]. 15:29:29 MP: this is real important and I'd like to get it resolved ASAP 15:29:42 AB: any volunteers to help? 15:29:44 BS: me 15:29:49 MC: me too 15:30:30 Arve: l would like these req discussions to take place on the mail list 15:30:58 ... we have some impl experience that are relevant so I want to contribute 15:31:17 MP: we will base the reqs on our work 15:31:29 ... we will be happy to take suggestions for improvements 15:31:46 AB: I second Arve's proposal to do these discussions on public-webapps 15:32:26 AB: Mark, any other comments besides window modes? 15:32:47 MP: most of our comments were about window mode including related APIs 15:33:09 Arve: the CSS extensions are a different topic 15:33:30 ... I think CSS WG may have some issues with the proposal 15:33:39 AB: what are the specific concerns? 15:34:03 Arve: a concern is that we will specify CSS behavior 15:34:33 ... docking mode in particular 15:35:26 AB: if we need to directly engage with CSS WG, Mike or I can make that happen 15:35:42 ... it may be a bit premature given we need to think about this from the reqs level first 15:36:30 abraun has joined #wam 15:36:38 CV: we don't want to overlap CSS work 15:37:04 Arve: I meant we don't want to specify something around Media Queries 15:37:50 ... It's more like a philosophical concern re us being consistent with CSS' specs 15:39:23 AB: if we indeed specify any CSS related stuff, we indeed must work with the CSS WG 15:40:10 Arve: after we agree on reqs, and then do the spec work, we'll know if we need to work with CSS WG 15:40:16 AB: agree 15:40:56 MP: we will submit other comments 15:41:26 Topic: API and Events spec: getting to FPWD: 15:41:37 Benoit_ has joined #wam 15:41:40 AB: ED is 15:41:58 http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/ 15:42:00 abraun has joined #wam 15:42:08 AB: Arve, what is the status of your January 15 action "it appears I have not checked in agreed changes from Mandelieu. I will check in all changes before our next Voice Conf". 15:42:40 Arve: that should be done now 15:42:44 Benoit_ has left #wam 15:42:56 ... we still need a definition for Widget Context 15:42:58 Benoit_ has joined #wam 15:43:28 Benoit_ has joined #wam 15:43:50 Arve: still have some Red Blocks 15:45:07 AB: I think we need some text in Section 1. 15:45:15 AB: is 1.1 boilerplate? 15:45:16 MC: yes 15:45:44 ACTION: Marcos write an introduction for section 1. of the API and Events spec 15:45:44 Created ACTION-292 - Write an introduction for section 1. of the API and Events spec [on Marcos Caceres - due 2009-01-29]. 15:45:56 AB: what do we need to do to publish FPWD? 15:46:27 AB: after Marcos supplies text for 1.0, are you ready to publish it? 15:46:29 Arve: yes 15:46:37 MC: I will try to complete that by early next week 15:46:54 AB: any other comments on FPWD? 15:47:35 JK: comment on section 4; needs some formatting work 15:48:07 Arve: oh, you're right; I'll fix that 15:48:10 "When the view state of the widget changes, the widgetmodechange event is dispatched on the Widget object. It must not bubble, must not be cancelable and must implement the Event interface [DOM3Events]. The event has no namespace (Event.namespaceURI is null" 15:49:01 AB: we could start a 1-week CfC 15:49:14 JS: I will submit comments 15:50:33 AB: a FPWD can be pretty raw i.e. published knowing there are lots of open issues 15:51:46 AB: please review the latest ED and be ready on Jan 29 to vote Yes or No for a FPWD 15:52:02 Topic: Add tag: scheme to our list of schemes that do not meet our requirements. 15:52:13 AB: scheme document is 15:52:21 abraun has joined #wam 15:54:33 AB: I propose we add tag: scheme to the document Marcos created last October 15:54:44 MC: I can do that but the interesting discussions will occur on the ML 15:56:21 AB: I think consolidating the rationale will be useful 15:56:31 MC: agree, assign me a action 15:57:09 ACTION: Marcos add the tag: scheme to the scheme pros and cons document 15:57:09 Created ACTION-293 - Add the tag: scheme to the scheme pros and cons document [on Marcos Caceres - due 2009-01-29]. 15:57:24 MC: I can create a PDF is that's what people want 15:57:30 Arve: yes, please do 15:57:49 (Or even an HTML presentation, using media="projection" .... ) 15:57:51 AB: any other comments about tag: 15:57:53 :) 15:58:03 JS: it seems like it may actually work 15:58:32 AB: please take a look at it Josh and submit comments 15:58:50 MC: one potential issue is I18N related issues but they may be resolvable 15:58:56 JK: like what Marcos? 15:59:10 MC: IRI support may be problematic 15:59:31 ... Tim from HP raised a related issue 15:59:40 JK: I'll read up on it 16:00:01 AB: everyone, please do followup on the mail list 16:00:21 Topic: AOB 16:00:31 AB: any other business to discuss? 16:00:50 BS: I wasn't able to upload the f2f data file 16:01:07 MC: a hotel recommenation file would be helpful 16:01:26 BS: that's what I've done but dont' have the right perms to upload it to the wiki 16:01:40 AB: I'll resolve this issue 16:02:24 AB: Meeting Adjourned 16:02:33 -Art_Barstow 16:02:34 -Caroline 16:02:35 -arve 16:02:35 -Andy 16:02:36 arve has left #wam 16:02:36 -Mark 16:02:38 -Josh_Soref 16:02:40 -David 16:02:41 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:02:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-minutes.html ArtB 16:02:42 -Claudio 16:02:46 IA_WebApps(Widgets)10:00AM has ended 16:02:48 Attendees were Art_Barstow, Jere, Mark, +39.011.228.aaaa, Claudio, +44.208.849.aabb, David, Josh_Soref, arve, +1.919.536.aacc, Andy, Caroline 16:05:37 zakim, bye 16:05:37 Zakim has left #wam 16:07:15 RRSAgent, bye 16:07:15 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-actions.rdf : 16:07:15 ACTION: Mark create an input regarding Window Mode requirements [1] 16:07:15 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-irc#T15-29-00 16:07:15 ACTION: Marcos write an introduction for section 1. of the API and Events spec [2] 16:07:15 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-irc#T15-45-44 16:07:15 ACTION: Marcos add the tag: scheme to the scheme pros and cons document [3] 16:07:15 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/22-wam-irc#T15-57-09