14:40:50 RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
14:40:50 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-irc
14:40:52 RRSAgent, make logs public
14:40:52 Zakim has joined #xhtml
14:40:54 Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
14:40:54 ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:40:55 Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:40:55 Date: 21 January 2009
14:41:08 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Jan/0054.html
14:41:58 IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
14:42:05 +Roland
14:42:10 Chair: Roland
14:42:34 rrsagent, make minutes
14:42:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
14:42:42 +ShaneM
14:42:44 mgylling has joined #xhtml
14:42:51 Regrets: Alessio, Mark
14:43:01 rrsagent, make minutes
14:43:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
14:44:55 + +2
14:48:14 zakim, dial steven-617
14:48:14 ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:48:16 +Steven
14:49:23 zakim, who is here?
14:49:23 On the phone I see Roland, ShaneM, +2, Steven
14:49:24 On IRC I see mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, Roland, ShaneM, Steven, trackbot
14:49:49 zakim, 2 is mgylling
14:49:49 sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '2'
14:49:57 zakim, +2 is mgylling
14:49:57 +mgylling; got it
14:50:16 scribe: Steven
14:50:37 Topic: CURIEs
14:50:49 Roland: Curies have gone to CR
14:51:06 Steven: Let's talk about test suites
14:51:19 Roland: Soes the RDFa test suite cover all features?
14:51:35 Shane: It covers all features, there is a datatype that isn't tested, not a feature per se
14:51:49 s/Soes/Does/
14:52:10 Shane: I've grabbed the test ahrness and I am extractinng the CURIE tests
14:52:15 Tina has joined #xhtml
14:52:19 s/ahrn/harn/
14:52:27 Shane: Harder than I had expected
14:52:34 Apologies; time slipped away and my phone is not behaving :(
14:52:38 ... it's doable
14:53:00 Steven: Moving the harness to W3C space?
14:53:10 Shane: No, and they use a different version of PHP
14:53:19 ... Ralph has already tried and failed
14:53:40 ... when Ralph has fixed it for RDFa, then it will be easy for us
14:54:01 Steven: Good news
14:54:23 Roland: Timescale?
14:54:29 Shane: Not sure yet
14:55:39 Topic: Media types
14:55:50 Roland: I see we had comments
14:56:20 Shane: I sent it to Steven for publication
14:56:21 +Tina
14:57:21 Steven: I sent it on to be published, and it had arrived, but Monday was a holiday, and yesterday sort of too, so maybe it's just backed up
14:57:57 Shane: We also got a comment about @lang, and I replied that we can't add it to existing family members, but XHTML 1.2 could
14:58:40 Roland: it is deifnite we can't get it back in?
14:58:46 Shane: It would break conformance
14:58:54 s/deif/defi/
14:59:13 Roland: Maybe the Mobile web people could do the grunt work to get it into the system,
14:59:37 Shane: So you think it is OK to break conformance?
14:59:51 Roland: Maybe, not sure.
15:01:10 C.7. The lang and xml:lang Attributes
15:01:10 Use both the lang and xml:lang attributes when specifying the language of an element. The value of the xml:lang attribute takes precedence.
15:01:12 Steven: If we say that @lang has no meaning, it wouldn't actually break anything
15:02:15 Roland: Why don't we test the waters with the mobile people?
15:02:55 ACTION: Roland to talk to the mobile people about allowing @lang
15:02:56 Created ACTION-45 - Talk to the mobile people about allowing @lang [on Roland Merrick - due 2009-01-28].
15:03:53 Steven: The doc is in the pipeline, as soon as it happens, I'll let you know
15:04:30 Roland: And the other docs are in the pipeline waiting for this to be published
15:04:35 Steven: Yres, that's right
15:04:40 s/res/es/
15:05:22 Shane: If someone in autority would say that adding @lang would not vioalte PER, it would be 2 mins to add it to the spec
15:05:29 Roland: We will carry on as we are for now
15:05:54 Topic: XHTML2
15:06:07 Roland: Shane has asked some questions
15:08:47 ... so which version of XForms?
15:11:06 Steven: 1.1
15:11:16 Shane: And how does that fit in with XMNL Events 2?
15:11:26 Steven: We need to check that they are consistent
15:11:48 ... XML Events 2 is based on XForms 1.1, so it should be the same, but we need to check
15:12:12 ... XForms 1.1 still references XML Events 1, and adds stuff into its own spec (like RDFa does with CURIEs)
15:12:34 Markus: Is the XForms 1.1 schema chameleon?
15:12:39 Steven: Yes
15:13:29 Steven: so charset and encoding are related (XML Events)
15:14:46 Shane: So you think we should allow @charset
15:15:09 Steven: Yes, for legacy use (mainly for the javascript + @implements" case)
15:18:43 [Discussion on whether charset or encoding is a better choice]
15:21:48 Roland: What is the difference? One is a single value and the other a list?
15:22:01 Steven: Yes
15:23:45 ... you should look at the definition of charset in HTML4, it really isn't very useful
15:23:55 ... which is why we made @encoding what it is
15:24:00 ... to make it actually useful
15:24:31 ... I suggest we should say @charset has no meaning
15:24:40 ... and only there for legacy use
15:25:08 Roland: It is a compormise I can live with
15:25:21 ... so I can specify both if I want
15:25:48 Roland: So the next question is what to do with the script module
15:26:34 ... I think there should be one module for XHTML 1.2 and 2.0
15:26:57 Steven: Isn't script in XML Events 2?
15:27:01 Shane: Yes
15:27:08 Roland: But it is a separate module
15:28:33 q-
15:29:09 Roland: caption element
15:29:24 Shane: There are other issues that we need to discuss as well
15:29:40 ... but I may have confused people here
15:29:52 ... we use caption on object
15:30:25 ... so my question is really is it OK to split caption out as a module
15:30:36 ... and Mark then pointed out that we have label as well
15:30:55 ... and I don't care which we use
15:31:23 Roland: We have caption in older versions of XHTML
15:32:47 ... and label has other parameters, like ref
15:33:03 ... so an unadorned caption in object would be simpler
15:33:23 http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/htmlwg/xhtml-m12n-2/mod-list.html#edef_list_label
15:33:29 Shane: The label in the list module is a different one (no @ref)
15:33:52 Markus: Perhaps it should be caption on lists then...
15:34:36 Steven: It would certainly be confusing for the user if label had different meanings in different places
15:35:01 Shane: Good point. I think that caption should be drawn out into its own module
15:35:04 Steven: Agree
15:35:17 +1
15:35:17 Shane: So should we use caption in lists?
15:35:44 Markus: What does this mean for img then?
15:36:44 Steven: Are you suggesting a caption child of img?
15:38:40 ... from a processing point of virew, img and span are identical
15:38:46 http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/htmlwg/xhtml-m12n-2/mod-text.html#cs_Text
15:39:02 Shane: The question really generalises to "should caption be able to be a child of any element"
15:40:17 ... or "if we define the caption element, should it be in the text content set"
15:40:54 Markus: Or the title element, like the title attribute
15:41:59 Steven: The relationship between @title, caption and label is difficult
15:42:04 ... it needs cleaning up
15:42:13 Shane: I think caption on image is a fine idea
15:42:31 ... I should record it as an issue whether it should be allowed more generally
15:43:27 Steven: HTML5 has a figure element, with a child of