19:34:41 RRSAgent has joined #svg 19:34:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/19-svg-irc 19:34:43 RRSAgent, make logs public 19:34:45 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 19:34:45 ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start 4 minutes ago 19:34:46 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 19:34:46 Date: 19 January 2009 19:35:16 GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started 19:35:23 +??P0 19:35:27 Zakim, ??P0 is me 19:35:27 +heycam; got it 19:36:38 +[IPcaller] 19:36:40 -heycam 19:36:42 +heycam 19:36:58 Zakim, [IPcaller] is me 19:36:58 +anthony; got it 19:38:01 ed has joined #svg 19:38:55 +??P2 19:39:04 Zakim, ??P2 is me 19:39:04 +ed; got it 19:39:29 Zakim, who's here? 19:39:29 On the phone I see heycam, anthony, ed 19:39:30 On IRC I see ed, Zakim, RRSAgent, heycam, anthony, ed_work, trackbot 19:47:00 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0050.html 19:47:44 scribe: erik 19:47:47 scribeNick: ed 19:47:51 chair: heycam 19:48:05 Topic: ISSUE-2201 19:48:09 ISSUE-2201+ 19:48:12 ISSUE-2201? 19:48:12 ISSUE-2201 -- Return value of SVGAnimationElement.getStartTime unclear -- OPEN 19:48:12 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2201 19:48:32 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartTime-return-value 19:49:39 CMC: wasn't sure if we decided if we return a value for the interval if it wasn't active at the moment (so the next interval) 19:50:31 ED: just wondering which is more intuitive to authors 19:50:40 AG: what does batik do? 19:50:54 CMC: think something slightly different, actually returns NaN 19:51:50 ...Opera currently will do the current interval whether if it's active or not 19:52:57 ...if we returned the start time of the current interval if they're not active scripts could still compare that against the document time to determine if that's active or not 19:53:23 ...don't mind either way 19:53:38 AG: do we want to wait for jwatt to have his opinion? 19:53:47 CMC: brian brought up the discussion originally 19:54:10 ...he also asked on svg-developers if anyone used this, and what they thought 19:54:23 ...no replies yet 19:57:09 ED: it may be that sometimes it's tricky to time the call such that the getStartTime is when the interval is active, and you might expect to get something instead of an exception if the next interval is computed 19:57:26 CMC: what about the duration one? 19:58:06 ED: that's getSimpleDuration, so the name says pretty much what it does 19:58:51 CMC: difficult do decide given that there's other timing things that are not exposed 19:59:57 ...given that we can expose a bit more information by having it return the current interval and that you can compare against the documenttime, and that you can call it on beginevent, it should be safe to du the "current interval" 20:00:24 AG: i'm fine with that, opera would have to change? 20:01:04 ED: yes, to raise the exception 20:01:48 ACTION: heycam to change the http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartTime-return-value erratum to use "current interval" and to move the item to proposed 20:01:48 Created ACTION-2407 - Change the http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#getStartTime-return-value erratum to use \"current interval\" and to move the item to proposed [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-01-26]. 20:02:10 Topic: ISSUE-2199 20:02:15 ISSUE-2199? 20:02:16 ISSUE-2199 -- Underlying transform value erratum now conflicts with 1.2T -- RAISED 20:02:16 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2199 20:02:24 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#cleanup-wording-underlying-value 20:02:39 CMC: i've updated this to bring in the text in 1.2T 20:03:03 ...copied the text and changed some links from SMIL to SMIL Animation 20:03:35 ...I've brought it back to draft to review it again 20:03:51 AG: doesn't look like a big behavioural change 20:04:45 CMC: it's not really explicit in the text, but this text implies that when you're doing the scale transofrmation animation and the scale is zero (like in a to animation and you need to know the starting value) 20:05:15 ...it's not explicit in tiny 1.2 either anymore 20:05:23 ...we used to have a table 20:05:33 ...but was removed before moving to CR 20:05:51 ...based on comments from DOH 20:06:14 AG: wasn't much in the spec before anyway 20:06:24 CMC: yes, this was rather undefined 20:06:41 ...no tests in the 1.1 testsuite that rely on the underlaying value 20:06:53 AG: I've no problem changing that to proposed 20:07:35 ED: one thing I was wondering about was if the references affects this at all 20:08:13 CMC: the first link there is just describing the from-to calculation 20:09:15 ED: right, this is probably close enough 20:09:28 ...and good to use similar wording 20:09:51 CMC: how do we do tests for errata items? 20:10:32 AG: we should add tests in the 1.1F2/tests/svg directory going forward 20:10:47 CMC: we'll have to release the testsuite again, right? 20:10:55 AG: right 20:11:37 CMC: so maybe we could publish the second edition spec along with a new snapshot of the testsuite 20:11:51 http://www.w3.org/2003/01/test-cases/text-intro-06-t.svg 20:11:56 ED: that sounds good yes 20:12:38 CMC: the links should point to the right place though, they don't currently 20:12:46 ...we should move the old tests over 20:14:01 ACTION: heycam to create a test for http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#cleanup-wording-underlying-value (check if we have a test for it in the 1.2T testsuite) and then move the erratum to proposed 20:14:01 Created ACTION-2408 - Create a test for http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#cleanup-wording-underlying-value (check if we have a test for it in the 1.2T testsuite) and then move the erratum to proposed [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-01-26]. 20:17:08 Topic: ISSUE-2103? 20:17:13 ISSUE-2103? 20:17:14 ISSUE-2103 -- i18n comment 3: Inline -progression typo -- CLOSED 20:17:14 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2103 20:17:31 Topic: ISSUE-2203 20:17:37 ISSUE-2203? 20:17:37 ISSUE-2203 -- color-profile "local" IDL attribute erratum incorrect -- RAISED 20:17:37 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2203 20:17:55 http://www.w3.org/mid/20090116032239.GB3580@arc.mcc.id.au 20:17:59 CMC: this was raised by me a while ago 20:18:09 ...I think i was incorrect in raising it 20:18:37 ...it was for the IDL and there's an attribute named "_local" 20:18:47 ...and "local" is a keyword in IDL 20:18:55 ...so the underscore is actually needed 20:18:59 ...like the comment said 20:19:40 ED: ok, let's remove the errata item 20:19:54 CMC: yes, that's probably safe to do 20:20:56 ACTION: AG to remove the color-profile "local" IDL attribute erratum for SVG 1.1 (addressing ISSUE-2203) 20:20:56 Created ACTION-2409 - Remove the color-profile \"local\" IDL attribute erratum for SVG 1.1 (addressing ISSUE-2203) [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-01-26]. 20:21:39 Topic: www-svg feedback 20:21:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0024.html 20:22:28 CMC: for these methods what happens if you call them before the timeline is started 20:23:47 ED: so I think I was able to answer his first question about animationsPaused 20:23:56 ...though we could possibly clarify it 20:24:24 CMC: for beginElementAt 20:25:02 ...we should add the offset to time zero I think 20:25:21 AG: yes, makes it less confusing I think 20:25:34 CMC: would be consistent to do it that way I think 20:26:54 ...my suggestion would be if you did "beginElementAt(5)" it would be five seconds after the document timeline started, not from when it was called if it was called before the timeline started 20:27:19 -anthony 20:27:24 ED: that would probably be the most intuitive yes 20:27:44 CMC: and then we'd get the timelineBegin from 1.2T if you wanted to start the timeline earlier 20:27:53 +[IPcaller] 20:28:11 Zakim, [IPcaller] is me 20:28:11 +anthony; got it 20:28:26 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0029.html 20:28:59 CMC: it's a bit weird to fix up the starttime to be some negative time 20:29:38 ...that's jwatts suggestion to run the animation before the timeline has started 20:31:08 ED: the ElementTimeControl API is slightly different in 1.2T, something to note 20:32:17 ...IMHO it's a bit strange to not look at 1.2T when implementing SVG SMIL support from scratch 20:33:23 ACTION: heycam to reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0024.html to say what we decided and that we've made erratum for it 20:33:23 Created ACTION-2410 - Reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0024.html to say what we decided and that we've made erratum for it [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-01-26]. 20:34:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0026.html 20:34:38 Topic: animate-elem-82-t query, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0026.html 20:35:10 CMC: brian points out that this test was copied over from 1.1, but it relied on the behaviour that we changed in 1.2T based on DOH's comments 20:35:23 AG: this test has always had issues related to it 20:35:28 ...was it even approved? 20:35:32 CMC: does say so 20:36:06 ...presumably we've changed the definition of paced to something we're happy with in tiny 20:36:23 ...and this test should be removed and/or changed from the tiny 1.2 testsuite at least 20:36:42 ...but should we also look at changing what's in 1.1? 20:36:47 ...or just leave it 20:37:57 CMC: opera does the 1.2T way right? 20:38:30 ED: since this issue went back and forth a number of times I'm not sure if we decided to hold off on changing anything 20:38:52 CMC: this test in the 1.2T testsuite, we should eitehr change it or remove it 20:39:30 ...only some subtests rely on the pacing, don't know which 20:41:05 ACTION: review 1.2T/tests/animate-elem-82-t.svg and make sure the positions are correct for the paced animations, and move the test back to draft/unapproved for now 20:41:05 Sorry, couldn't find user - review 20:41:12 ACTION: ED to review 1.2T/tests/animate-elem-82-t.svg and make sure the positions are correct for the paced animations, and move the test back to draft/unapproved for now 20:41:12 Created ACTION-2411 - Review 1.2T/tests/animate-elem-82-t.svg and make sure the positions are correct for the paced animations, and move the test back to draft/unapproved for now [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-01-26]. 20:42:21 Topic: testsuite 20:42:38 AG: haven't started writing the xslt stylesheet yet 20:42:51 ACTION-2385 20:43:24 AG: most things can be copied across, but some empty fields need to be filled out 20:43:40 CMC: so once that's done the testsuite will be in good shape for adding tests to it 20:44:04 AG: you can do that now anyway, we can make the xsl look for certain elements and only change tose 20:44:18 CMC: we haven't copied over the tests yet have we? 20:44:20 AG: we did 20:44:29 ...but they're still using the old template 20:44:51 ...i've been organizing the last bits of the f2f, so I'll have more time this week to look at it 20:45:48 ...if anyone wants to make a new test just use the new template 20:46:36 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/templates/ 20:47:26 ...there are some new fields 20:47:41 ...the testdescription field allows references to the spec to be put in 20:47:49 ...and which parts of the spec is being tested 20:48:05 ...and because multiple parts can be tested you can put multiple references 20:48:14 ...tehre's a field for pass criteria 20:48:48 ...the approved attribute has been removed, it's only using status now 20:50:06 CMC: does testdescription need to be there? 20:50:10 AG: probably not 20:50:39 ...will give an example 20:51:40 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/text-tspan-02-b.svg 20:55:18 ED: what about future specs, we might not have a full absolute link? 20:55:25 AG: good point 20:55:53 ...we could make an xslt for publication 20:57:01 ED: we already put some spec links into the harness, based on naming convention 20:58:19 AG: that's based on sectionnames, so with xlink:href you can point to a specific place in the spec 20:58:58 -heycam 20:58:59 -ed 20:59:00 -anthony 20:59:02 GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has ended 20:59:02 Attendees were heycam, anthony, ed 20:59:07 Zakim, bye 20:59:07 Zakim has left #svg 20:59:12 rrsagent, make minutes 20:59:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/19-svg-minutes.html ed 22:22:40 heycam has joined #svg