IRC log of owl on 2009-01-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:55:03 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #owl
17:55:03 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/14-owl-irc
17:55:12 [ewallace]
ewallace has joined #owl
17:55:28 [IanH]
IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.01.14/Agenda
17:55:41 [IanH]
Zakim, this will be owlwg
17:55:41 [Zakim]
ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
17:56:09 [IanH]
ScribeNick: Achille Fokoue
17:56:25 [IanH]
RRSAgent, make records public
17:58:05 [schneid]
schneid has joined #owl
17:58:30 [bmotik]
bmotik has joined #owl
17:59:04 [Zakim]
SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
17:59:11 [Zakim]
+ +0186528aaaa
17:59:12 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
17:59:12 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
17:59:13 [Zakim]
+Ivan
17:59:15 [bmotik]
Zakim, this will be OWL
17:59:15 [Zakim]
ok, bmotik, I see SW_OWL()1:00PM already started
17:59:37 [MarkusK_]
MarkusK_ has joined #owl
17:59:54 [bmotik]
Zakim, aaaa is me
17:59:54 [Zakim]
+bmotik; got it
18:00:08 [Zakim]
+IanH
18:00:09 [bmotik]
Zakim, mute me
18:00:09 [Zakim]
bmotik should now be muted
18:00:28 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
18:00:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH
18:00:35 [Zakim]
On IRC I see MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:00:37 [Zhe]
Zhe has joined #owl
18:01:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aabb
18:01:17 [Achille]
Achille has joined #owl
18:01:17 [bcuencag]
bcuencag has joined #owl
18:01:22 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
18:01:32 [Zhe]
zakim, +1.603.897.aabb is me
18:01:32 [Zakim]
+Zhe; got it
18:01:35 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
18:01:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe, [IPcaller]
18:01:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bcuencag, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:01:37 [Zhe]
zakim, mute me
18:01:37 [Zakim]
Zhe should now be muted
18:01:51 [schneid]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
18:01:51 [Zakim]
+schneid; got it
18:01:52 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
18:02:05 [schneid]
zakim, mute me
18:02:05 [Zakim]
schneid should now be muted
18:02:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.518.276.aacc
18:02:08 [Achille]
Zakim, IBM is me
18:02:08 [Zakim]
+Achille; got it
18:02:14 [schneid]
zakim, unmute me
18:02:14 [Zakim]
schneid should no longer be muted
18:02:21 [Zakim]
+Evan_Wallace
18:02:30 [IanH]
ScribeNick: Achille
18:02:31 [Achille]
ScribeNick: Achille
18:02:32 [baojie]
baojie has joined #owl
18:02:44 [Zakim]
+??P15
18:02:49 [uli]
uli has joined #owl
18:02:50 [Zakim]
+??P12
18:02:54 [bcuencag]
Zakim, ??P12 is me
18:02:54 [Zakim]
+bcuencag; got it
18:03:04 [bcuencag]
Zakim, mute me
18:03:04 [Zakim]
bcuencag should now be muted
18:03:11 [Zakim]
+??P16
18:03:19 [uli]
zakim, ??P16 is me
18:03:19 [Zakim]
+uli; got it
18:03:24 [baojie]
Zakim, who is on the phone
18:03:24 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the phone', baojie
18:03:37 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
18:03:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid, Achille, +1.518.276.aacc, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bcuencag (muted), uli
18:03:39 [Zakim]
On IRC I see uli, baojie, bcuencag, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:03:42 [uli]
zakim, mute me
18:03:42 [Zakim]
uli should now be muted
18:03:45 [schneid]
zakim, mute me
18:03:45 [Zakim]
schneid should now be muted
18:03:49 [baojie]
Zakim, aacc is baojie
18:03:49 [Zakim]
+baojie; got it
18:03:51 [ivan]
scribenick: Achille
18:03:51 [Zakim]
+Jonathan_Rees
18:03:59 [ivan]
scribe: Achille
18:04:34 [IanH]
zakim, aacc is baojie
18:04:34 [Zakim]
sorry, IanH, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
18:04:46 [msmith]
msmith has joined #owl
18:04:53 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
18:04:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bcuencag (muted), uli (muted), Jonathan_Rees
18:04:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see msmith, uli, baojie, bcuencag, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:05:05 [alanr]
alanr has joined #owl
18:05:23 [Achille]
topic: Agenda amendments?
18:05:24 [alanr]
zakim, who is here?
18:05:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bcuencag (muted), uli (muted), Jonathan_Rees
18:05:27 [Zakim]
On IRC I see alanr, msmith, uli, baojie, bcuencag, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:05:32 [Zakim]
+msmith
18:05:36 [Achille]
ian : no agenda amendments
18:05:41 [alanr]
zakim, Jonathan_Rees is alanr
18:05:41 [Zakim]
+alanr; got it
18:05:49 [Achille]
topic: Accept Previous Minutes (07 January)
18:05:59 [alanr]
zakim, mute me
18:05:59 [Zakim]
alanr should now be muted
18:06:00 [Achille]
ian: they are ok according to me
18:06:22 [Achille]
PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (07 January)
18:06:38 [Achille]
RESOLVED: Accept Previous Minutes (07 January)
18:06:53 [Achille]
topic: Pending Review Actions
18:07:08 [Achille]
subtopic: Action 250 Send mime-type registrations in to IETF when we do last-call publications / Sandro Hawke
18:07:27 [schneid]
I remember some mail this week from IETF people?
18:07:34 [Achille]
ian: the applications have been made and it is ongoing
18:07:59 [Achille]
subtpic: Action 261
18:08:21 [Achille]
ianh: Peter has done his part. we are waiting for xml schema wg response
18:08:44 [Achille]
topic: Due and overdue Actions
18:08:45 [alanr]
tyes
18:08:46 [alanr]
yes
18:08:52 [alanr]
sorry - muted
18:09:09 [Achille]
ianh: Action 262 done!
18:09:35 [Achille]
topic: Soliciting reviews of and/or comments on LC documents
18:09:48 [Achille]
ianh: we did not receive a lot of comments
18:09:57 [Achille]
... this should be a cause for concerns
18:10:02 [Achille]
at this point
18:10:03 [Zhe]
q+
18:10:20 [IanH]
q?
18:10:20 [uli]
zakim, mute me
18:10:21 [Zakim]
uli was already muted, uli
18:10:21 [Zhe]
zakim, unmute me
18:10:21 [Zakim]
Zhe should no longer be muted
18:10:29 [Achille]
ivan: i agree with ian concerns
18:10:42 [Achille]
zhe: Oracle is sending some comments in a few days
18:11:16 [Achille]
... it is hard to get further comments given the size of the spec and the background needed to understand it
18:11:40 [ivan]
q+
18:11:43 [ivan]
ack Zhe
18:11:49 [Achille]
ianh: important to get comments from companies and organizations outside the working group
18:11:54 [IanH]
ack zhe
18:11:57 [IanH]
ack ivan
18:12:03 [Zhe]
zakim, mute me
18:12:03 [Zakim]
Zhe should now be muted
18:12:22 [alanr]
I will do so again on the lists that I sent to.
18:12:25 [Achille]
ivan: need for an explicit call from the chair might have some positive effect
18:12:45 [Achille]
ianh: yes we will repeat the call for comment that we did initially
18:12:45 [alanr]
will do
18:12:56 [Achille]
ivan: great. cosign it with alan
18:13:09 [Achille]
ianh: personnal solicitation is even better
18:13:52 [alanr]
zakim, unmute me
18:13:52 [Zakim]
alanr should no longer be muted
18:13:55 [Achille]
ivan: people with influencial blogs might also help by posting on their bogs
18:14:02 [Achille]
... example Alan?
18:14:20 [msmith]
yes, it does
18:14:23 [Achille]
ianh: yes anybody with a blog
18:14:33 [msmith]
yes
18:14:34 [Achille]
alanr: example Clark & Parsia
18:14:36 [msmith]
will pas it on
18:14:45 [alanr]
zakim, mute me
18:14:45 [Zakim]
alanr should now be muted
18:15:01 [Achille]
ianh: Alan and I will send a final reminder on the mailing lists
18:15:12 [Achille]
... people should write to their blog
18:15:23 [Achille]
... personal solicitation is also recommended
18:15:35 [Achille]
ianh: other ideas?
18:15:50 [Achille]
topic: F2F5 (23-24 February, 2009)
18:16:33 [Achille]
ianh: only 6 participants confirmed and 4 remote participants confirmed
18:16:51 [Achille]
topic: Last Call Comments
18:17:10 [Achille]
ianh: let's discuss Alan Rector's comment
18:17:11 [alanr]
but this time to the official list
18:17:17 [alanr]
zakim, unmute me
18:17:17 [Zakim]
alanr should no longer be muted
18:17:21 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.271.aadd
18:17:24 [uli]
i didn't see 2...
18:17:25 [msmith]
I agree, it seemed close to the same
18:17:30 [Achille]
ianh: is the latest version of the comment diff from the first one?
18:17:39 [Achille]
alanr: the same
18:17:40 [Zhe]
I just updated the F2f5, I will join.
18:17:54 [alanr]
great, Zhe!
18:17:57 [Achille]
... just added to the official list
18:18:19 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
18:18:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bcuencag (muted), uli (muted), alanr, msmith, +1.781.271.aadd
18:18:22 [Zakim]
On IRC I see alanr, msmith, uli, baojie, bcuencag, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:19:14 [IanH]
Who called in from USA area code 781?
18:19:24 [Achille]
alanr: i have proposed a solution to the comment at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/ALR1
18:19:31 [uli]
what would the changes be?
18:19:35 [Achille]
.. it requires changes on our side
18:20:11 [ivan]
q+
18:20:18 [IanH]
q?
18:21:09 [Achille]
ivan: warning for ourself: a major technical change will require a new LC
18:21:23 [uli]
q+
18:21:31 [IanH]
ack ivan
18:21:42 [Achille]
ianh: the change suggested by Alan will require a new LC
18:21:45 [uli]
zakim, unmute me
18:21:45 [Zakim]
uli should no longer be muted
18:21:45 [Achille]
ivan: yes
18:21:45 [IanH]
ack uli
18:22:03 [IanH]
q?
18:22:12 [Achille]
uli: what will be the required change?
18:22:24 [alanr]
http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/ALR1
18:22:30 [Achille]
alanr: hte proposed serialization is at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/ALR1
18:22:35 [Achille]
... change the mapping
18:22:43 [bmotik]
q+
18:23:20 [IanH]
q?
18:23:27 [Joanne]
Joanne has joined #owl
18:23:42 [Achille]
uli: during parsing u will need to make sure that they survive the parsingf
18:24:03 [IanH]
q?
18:24:13 [Achille]
uli: it sounds complicated
18:24:37 [Achille]
alanr: the declaration for classes have no semantic impacts
18:24:49 [Achille]
s/declaration/declarations
18:25:03 [IanH]
q?
18:25:26 [Achille]
uli: the parser will have to make the class expression are correct according to the syntax
18:25:54 [Achille]
s/to make/to make sure that /
18:25:59 [bmotik]
Zakim, unmute me
18:25:59 [Zakim]
bmotik should no longer be muted
18:26:08 [IanH]
ack bmotik
18:26:18 [uli]
zakim, mute me
18:26:18 [Zakim]
uli should now be muted
18:28:01 [alanr]
q+
18:28:05 [IanH]
q?
18:28:13 [Achille]
bmotik: not a good idea to put all these managarial information in annotation
18:28:29 [Achille]
s/these/this
18:28:47 [IanH]
ack alanr
18:28:58 [Achille]
bmotik: not important from an interoperability perspective
18:28:59 [bmotik]
q+
18:29:04 [uli]
q+
18:29:14 [uli]
q-
18:29:28 [IanH]
ack bmotik
18:29:30 [Achille]
alanr: we cannot say to such a world-class expert in modeling that his view on modeling is wrong
18:29:39 [ivan]
zakim, who is here?
18:29:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bmotik, Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bcuencag (muted), uli (muted), alanr, msmith, +1.781.271.aadd
18:29:42 [uli]
q+
18:29:42 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Joanne, alanr, msmith, uli, baojie, bcuencag, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:29:45 [uli]
q-
18:29:47 [Achille]
bmotik: annotations are not about modeling
18:29:53 [IanH]
q?
18:30:01 [Achille]
... use owl-dl for modeling
18:30:21 [Achille]
... the list of his requirement has nothing to do with modeling
18:30:28 [IanH]
q?
18:30:42 [uli]
...but we can say even to world-leading expert that, given that the complications incurred by his workaround and (!) the fact that it will still be a work-around (and not a proper fix), this isn't worth it
18:30:52 [Achille]
ianh: should we continue this discussion on email
18:31:19 [alanr]
uli: Agree. Need a coherent explanation of what the complications are to support such.
18:31:19 [bmotik]
q+
18:31:23 [IanH]
q?
18:31:42 [IanH]
ack bmotik
18:31:46 [Achille]
... people should look at Alanr's proposal and clarify the technical issues/difficulties
18:31:59 [msmith]
q+
18:32:05 [Achille]
bmotik: those issues were already discussed at the last F2F
18:32:12 [alanr]
q+
18:32:19 [msmith]
q-
18:32:23 [IanH]
q?
18:32:40 [Achille]
ianh: i agree, but could someone send an email about the issues
18:32:48 [IanH]
q?
18:32:51 [IanH]
ack alanr
18:32:59 [Achille]
... example: summary or pointer to the minutes of the last F2F
18:33:15 [IanH]
q?
18:33:44 [Achille]
alanr: i would like a discussion about the alternative solutions
18:33:55 [alanr]
zakim, mute me
18:33:55 [Zakim]
alanr should now be muted
18:34:19 [Achille]
ianh: how do we deal with internal LC comments?
18:34:42 [ivan]
q+
18:34:50 [IanH]
ack ivan
18:34:51 [Achille]
... should they be treated the exact same way as internal?
18:35:04 [Achille]
s/internal/external
18:35:42 [Achille]
ivan: the wiki page should contain all the comments (internal or external)
18:35:59 [Achille]
... because the wiki will be used to track the changes to the spec
18:36:03 [IanH]
q?
18:36:10 [alanr]
ok by me
18:36:19 [schneid]
+1
18:37:06 [IanH]
q?
18:37:30 [IanH]
q?
18:38:26 [IanH]
q?
18:39:00 [Achille]
ianh: I will send an email for making and dealing with WG internal comments on LC documents
18:39:44 [IanH]
q?
18:39:46 [msmith]
q+
18:39:46 [ivan]
action to IanH: send a mail to the group clarifying the deealing with WG internal comments on LC documents
18:39:46 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
18:39:56 [IanH]
ack msmith
18:39:58 [Achille]
action: ianh to send an email to clarify how to make and deal with WG comments on LC documents
18:39:58 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - ianh
18:40:19 [IanH]
q?
18:40:47 [IanH]
q?
18:41:00 [Achille]
topic: Comment from Tim Redmond
18:41:02 [alanr]
zakim, unmute me
18:41:02 [Zakim]
alanr should no longer be muted
18:41:07 [IanH]
q?
18:41:30 [Achille]
ianh: send a note about the discussion we had on import issues
18:42:10 [IanH]
q?
18:42:16 [Achille]
alanr: I will call him to help clarify his understanding
18:42:41 [Achille]
ianh: i agree with alanr that he may not have fully understood the spec
18:42:49 [IanH]
q?
18:42:53 [alanr]
we agreed to disagree :)
18:42:53 [ivan]
yes
18:43:49 [alanr]
action: alanr to talk to tim redmond about his lc comment
18:43:49 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - alanr
18:43:59 [Achille]
subtopic: Comment from Andy Seaborne
18:44:11 [baojie]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg//2009Jan/0025.html
18:44:13 [IanH]
q?
18:44:19 [alanr]
action: alanruttenberg to talk to tim redmond about his lc comment
18:44:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-264 - Talk to tim redmond about his lc comment [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2009-01-21].
18:44:31 [ivan]
-> http://www.w3.org/mid/b6b357670901140921j4be87090h76df1d20a00878d6@mail.gmail.com Baojie's answer
18:45:03 [IanH]
q?
18:45:43 [Achille]
boajie: my response is at http://www.w3.org/mid/b6b357670901140921j4be87090h76df1d20a00878d6@mail.gmail.com
18:45:46 [IanH]
q?
18:45:51 [ivan]
q+
18:46:00 [IanH]
ack ivan
18:46:48 [IanH]
q?
18:46:57 [Achille]
ivan: there is another comment from Andy about RDF taking over some datatypes
18:47:09 [IanH]
q?
18:47:13 [schneid]
I agree that only an RDF working group may make such a statement
18:47:27 [Achille]
ivan: i agree with Andy that we should not have such a statement in our spec about RDF working group
18:47:49 [baojie]
http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/InternationalizedStringSpec#Definition_of_the_rdf:text_Datatype
18:47:49 [ivan]
The text in the rdf:text says: "In addition to the RIF and OWL specifications, this datatype is expected to supersede RDF's plain literals with language tags"
18:48:15 [Achille]
ivan: this should not be part of our document
18:48:38 [IanH]
q?
18:48:42 [Achille]
ianh: should we discuss this issue further?
18:48:49 [Zakim]
-MarkusK_
18:49:02 [Achille]
ivan: boajie, did you also have a discussion with the RIF group?
18:49:07 [baojie]
not yet
18:49:20 [IanH]
q?
18:49:33 [Achille]
ianh: let's add that in our todo list on the topic of coordination with RIF group
18:49:46 [Achille]
topic": Test Cases
18:49:56 [Achille]
ianh: Problems with approved test cases?
18:49:59 [Achille]
ianh: no
18:50:30 [Achille]
ianh: tests are coming in fast. it is not clear how to run the approval process
18:50:34 [alanr]
q+
18:50:38 [alanr]
zakim, unmute me
18:50:38 [Zakim]
alanr was not muted, alanr
18:50:40 [IanH]
q?
18:50:42 [Achille]
... does anyone look at the tests?
18:50:43 [IanH]
ack alanr
18:50:58 [Achille]
alanr: we should split the labor
18:51:14 [IanH]
q?
18:51:19 [Achille]
... to make sure that every test is looked at by at least one person
18:52:39 [msmith]
q+
18:52:41 [IanH]
q?
18:52:46 [Achille]
ianh: should be fine if all reasoners pass successfully a test
18:52:46 [IanH]
ack msmith
18:53:20 [Achille]
mike: if there is no table entry, it means that the test cannot be tested by a OWL-DL reasoner (OWL Full test)
18:53:45 [IanH]
q?
18:54:03 [Achille]
mike: there are also tests meant to illustrate the diff between DL and Full
18:54:16 [IanH]
q?
18:54:19 [uli]
q+
18:54:21 [schneid]
q+
18:54:22 [uli]
q-
18:54:28 [schneid]
zakim, unmute me
18:54:28 [Zakim]
schneid should no longer be muted
18:54:29 [IanH]
ack schneid
18:54:36 [MarkusK_]
MarkusK_ has joined #owl
18:55:03 [IanH]
q?
18:55:39 [msmith]
I don't know of tests that touch these cases
18:55:40 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
18:55:44 [Achille]
schneid: they are some corner cases that will cease to be valid OWL DL
18:55:51 [Achille]
s/they/there
18:55:58 [IanH]
q?
18:56:05 [schneid]
zakim, mute me
18:56:05 [Zakim]
schneid should now be muted
18:56:11 [bmotik]
Zakim, mute me
18:56:11 [Zakim]
bmotik should now be muted
18:56:12 [IanH]
q?
18:56:28 [alanr]
that's one way
18:57:03 [alanr]
I'll take 5
18:57:06 [Achille]
ianh: how to process tests validation by reasoners?
18:57:09 [IanH]
q?
18:57:14 [ivan]
ok
18:57:15 [Zhe]
I will take 5
18:57:26 [msmith]
I've already eye-balled them all, so can do it again, but that won't help.
18:57:45 [Achille]
no objection from me
18:58:02 [uli]
...why doesn't eye-balling help
18:58:04 [ivan]
zakim, who is here?
18:58:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, bcuencag (muted), uli (muted), alanr, msmith, +1.781.271.aadd, MarkusK_
18:58:05 [uli]
?
18:58:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see MarkusK_, Joanne, alanr, msmith, uli, baojie, bcuencag, Achille, Zhe, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:58:10 [Achille]
ianh: anybody objects from receiving 5 testcases to evaluate
18:58:11 [MarkusK_]
I missed the discussion -- I also will check some further tests
18:58:11 [ivan]
zakim, aadd is Joanne
18:58:11 [Zakim]
+Joanne; got it
18:58:20 [IanH]
q?
18:58:23 [uli]
zakim, unmute me
18:58:23 [Zakim]
uli should no longer be muted
18:58:23 [Zhe]
please let me know which 5 though :)
18:58:36 [schneid]
schneid: there might be old test cases about the reserved vocabulary: OWL 2 DL is now more restrictive, cancelling out almost /all/ names from the rdf, rdfs, owl and xsd namespaces, where in OWL 1 many names were actually not disallowed. But these are corner cases.
18:58:42 [Christine]
Christine has joined #owl
18:58:55 [msmith]
yes.
18:59:02 [msmith]
you can check my sanity :)
18:59:17 [Achille]
ianh: i am not convince that it will help
18:59:39 [IanH]
q?
18:59:43 [msmith]
q+
18:59:56 [Achille]
alanr: make sure that they are not OWL DL
19:00:07 [IanH]
q?
19:00:16 [IanH]
ack msmith
19:00:23 [Achille]
ianh: if all three reasoners say there are not OWL DL. that should be good enough?
19:00:48 [Zakim]
+??P24
19:01:12 [Christine]
Zakim, ??P24 is Christine
19:01:12 [Zakim]
+Christine; got it
19:01:28 [IanH]
q?
19:01:35 [Achille]
mike: the entries in the table are the ones that are now OWL DL.
19:02:02 [IanH]
q?
19:02:06 [Achille]
mike: the only one handle to the reasoner were the OWL DL examples
19:03:08 [msmith]
will do shortly
19:03:52 [uli]
http://owl.cs.manchester.ac.uk/converter/
19:03:54 [ivan]
i do not have a practice in m'ter syntax, sorry
19:04:16 [msmith]
q+
19:04:22 [IanH]
q?
19:04:27 [IanH]
ack msmith
19:04:43 [msmith]
+5, this would be nice
19:04:58 [msmith]
@alan regarding declarations http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Syntax#Entity_Declarations_and_Typing
19:05:08 [uli]
zakim, mute me
19:05:08 [Zakim]
uli should now be muted
19:05:32 [Achille]
ianh: we can use the converter as a species checker provided that the repair functionality is disable
19:05:51 [Achille]
topic: Plans for non-LC documents
19:05:55 [IanH]
q?
19:06:53 [Achille]
ianh: last week strawpoll on ManchesterSyntax Rectrac was not conclusive
19:07:16 [Achille]
ianh: has anyone changed his/her mind since then?
19:07:26 [ivan]
q+
19:07:30 [Zhe]
q+
19:07:55 [Achille]
... will anybody raise a formal objection if ManchesterSyntax were to become a Rec Trac?
19:08:09 [Christine]
+q
19:08:10 [Zhe]
zakim, unmute me
19:08:10 [Zakim]
Zhe should no longer be muted
19:08:11 [IanH]
ack ivan
19:08:14 [Achille]
s/will/would
19:08:48 [Achille]
ivan: I do not think it is part of our scope
19:08:52 [IanH]
q?
19:09:05 [Achille]
... it was not part of the charter and we are taking too much here
19:09:11 [IanH]
ack zhe
19:09:36 [uli]
no, I don't think so
19:09:39 [Achille]
Zhe: what are the consequences if it becomes a rectrac?
19:09:56 [Achille]
... vendors will be required to support it?
19:10:03 [Achille]
ianh: no.
19:10:29 [Achille]
ianh: it will be optional
19:10:52 [uli]
q+
19:10:57 [IanH]
q?
19:11:32 [Achille]
ivan: it is syntax taken seriously by the group
19:12:09 [Achille]
s/trac/track
19:12:15 [IanH]
q?
19:12:19 [IanH]
ack christine
19:13:16 [Achille]
christine: it will be first class syntax if it becomes rec track
19:13:20 [IanH]
q?
19:14:14 [uli]
zakim, unmute me
19:14:14 [Zakim]
uli should no longer be muted
19:14:14 [IanH]
ack uli
19:14:27 [Achille]
... what are the argument in favor of it being rectrack.
19:15:08 [Achille]
uli: better visibility, interoperability between tools, and shared human readable syntax
19:16:14 [ivan]
q+
19:16:29 [ivan]
q-
19:16:46 [uli]
zakim, mute me
19:16:46 [Zakim]
uli should now be muted
19:17:07 [IanH]
q?
19:17:08 [Achille]
ianh: how about ManchesterSyntax being a Note?
19:17:55 [Achille]
ianh: seems nobody will vote against it
19:18:09 [uli]
not extremely unhappy, but I would think that this was "treating the MS designers no too nicely" (note, I am not one of them)
19:18:11 [Achille]
PROPOSED : ManchesterSyntax will be Note
19:18:26 [schneid]
what about the editor?
19:18:29 [uli]
...but I will shut up now
19:18:50 [schneid]
q+
19:18:54 [schneid]
zakim, unmute me
19:18:54 [Zakim]
schneid should no longer be muted
19:18:58 [IanH]
ack schneid
19:19:28 [Achille]
schneid: peter would be in favor of a recommendation
19:19:36 [Christine]
+q
19:20:00 [schneid]
zakim, mute me
19:20:00 [Zakim]
schneid should now be muted
19:20:33 [Achille]
ianh: we can vote now and revisit the vote in light of completely new arguments
19:20:52 [IanH]
q?
19:21:19 [Achille]
ivan: my impression was that peter was just lukewarmly in favor
19:21:47 [Achille]
christine: we should vote now becasue last time we postponed it because bijan was not there
19:21:59 [Achille]
PROPOSED : ManchesterSyntax will be a Note
19:21:59 [IanH]
ROPOSED : ManchesterSyntax will be Note
19:22:11 [ivan]
+1
19:22:12 [ewallace]
+1
19:22:12 [baojie]
+1
19:22:14 [uli]
-0
19:22:14 [Achille]
+0.5
19:22:14 [MarkusK_]
+0
19:22:15 [Zhe]
+1 (ORACLE)
19:22:16 [msmith]
0
19:22:16 [bcuencag]
0
19:22:18 [schneid]
+1
19:22:18 [bmotik]
-0
19:22:18 [Christine]
+1
19:22:29 [IanH]
0
19:22:50 [Achille]
RESOLVED : ManchesterSyntax will be Note
19:23:13 [Zakim]
-uli
19:23:21 [Achille]
topic: Coordination with RIF
19:23:51 [Achille]
ianh: jie's agrees to take the job wrt to rdf:text
19:24:03 [Achille]
ianh: what do we need for this coordination?
19:24:12 [IanH]
q?
19:24:28 [IanH]
ack christine
19:24:41 [Achille]
baojie: what are the other issues on the list wrt to coordination
19:25:01 [Christine]
-q
19:25:02 [Achille]
ianh: some issues regarding datatypes
19:25:08 [IanH]
q?
19:25:52 [Achille]
ivan: one of the issues is the diff between how owl and xml schema handle datatype value spaces
19:26:04 [baojie]
is there a pointer to previous discussions? thanks
19:27:03 [Achille]
... we do not want diff view of datatypes by owl wg and rif wg
19:27:14 [Achille]
ianh: no need to discuss it in details now
19:29:29 [Achille]
topic: Additional other business
19:30:07 [Zakim]
-Evan_Wallace
19:30:12 [msmith]
thanks everyone, bye
19:30:13 [Zakim]
-bmotik
19:30:15 [Zakim]
-msmith
19:30:19 [Zhe]
bye
19:30:19 [Zakim]
-Achille
19:30:25 [Zakim]
-MarkusK_
19:30:28 [Zakim]
-Zhe
19:30:35 [Zakim]
-Christine
19:30:41 [Zakim]
-Joanne
19:30:48 [Zakim]
-baojie
19:30:55 [baojie]
baojie has left #owl
19:31:03 [Zakim]
-schneid
19:32:01 [Zakim]
-bcuencag
19:32:35 [alanr]
have to go to another call
19:32:44 [Zakim]
-alanr
19:34:28 [alanr]
alanr has joined #owl
19:43:20 [msmith]
msmith has left #owl
19:44:03 [Zakim]
-IanH
19:44:05 [Zakim]
-Ivan
19:44:07 [Zakim]
SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
19:44:07 [ivan]
ivan has left #owl
19:44:08 [Zakim]
Attendees were +0186528aaaa, Ivan, bmotik, IanH, Zhe, schneid, +1.518.276.aacc, Achille, Evan_Wallace, bcuencag, MarkusK_, uli, baojie, msmith, alanr, +1.781.271.aadd, Joanne,
19:44:10 [Zakim]
... Christine
21:31:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #owl