IRC log of swd on 2009-01-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:55:25 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #swd
15:55:25 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc
15:55:37 [TomB]: rrsagent, bookmark
15:55:37 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc#T15-55-37
15:55:41 [TomB]: zakim, this will be swd
15:55:41 [Zakim]: ok, TomB; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:55 [TomB]: genda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0041.html
15:56:08 [TomB]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0041.html
15:56:19 [TomB]: Meeting: SWD
15:56:21 [TomB]: Chair: Tom
15:56:27 [TomB]: Regrets: Sean, Daniel
15:56:38 [TomB]: rrsagent, please make record public
15:56:46 [TomB]: Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html
15:56:53 [TomB]: Scribe: Diego
15:59:29 [Zakim]: SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
15:59:36 [Zakim]: +??P15
15:59:47 [TomB]: zakim, ??p15 is me
15:59:47 [Zakim]: +TomB; got it
16:01:44 [Zakim]: +Ralph
16:03:02 [berrueta]: berrueta has joined #swd
16:03:14 [Antoine]: Antoine has joined #swd
16:03:32 [aliman]: aliman has joined #swd
16:03:52 [Zakim]: +martin_spain
16:04:00 [berrueta]: zakim, martin_spain is me
16:04:00 [Zakim]: +berrueta; got it
16:04:31 [TomB]: Scribenick: berrueta
16:04:32 [berrueta]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0041.html
16:04:34 [Zakim]: +Antoine_Isaac
16:05:14 [Zakim]: +??P44
16:05:33 [TomB]: zakim, ?p44 is aliman
16:05:33 [Zakim]: sorry, TomB, I do not recognize a party named '?p44'
16:05:43 [TomB]: zakim, ??p44 is aliman
16:05:43 [Zakim]: +aliman; got it
16:06:29 [Zakim]: -aliman
16:07:04 [JonP]: JonP has joined #swd
16:07:07 [Zakim]: +??P2
16:07:17 [TomB]: zakim, ??p2 is aliman
16:07:17 [Zakim]: +aliman; got it
16:07:38 [berrueta_]: berrueta_ has joined #swd
16:07:43 [Zakim]: +Ben_Adida
16:07:55 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-minutes.html Ralph
16:08:19 [Zakim]: +Jon_Phipps
16:08:35 [berrueta_]: topic: Admin
16:08:44 [berrueta_]: PROPOSED to accept minutes of the last telecon
16:08:52 [berrueta_]: RESOLVED to accept minutes of the Jan 06 telecon: http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html
16:09:09 [JonP]: zakim, Jon_Phipps is me
16:09:09 [Zakim]: +JonP; got it
16:09:15 [berrueta_]: TomB: our charter has been extended to end of apr
16:09:27 [berrueta_]: topic: RDFa
16:09:44 [berrueta_]: ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]
16:10:15 [berrueta_]: BenA: we're in the middle of a discussion with the XHTML WG re use cases
16:10:17 [berrueta_]: --continues
16:11:00 [Guus]: Guus has joined #swd
16:11:01 [berrueta_]: BenA: working now to provide guidance about adding rdfa in xhtml
16:11:10 [berrueta_]: TomB: any isssues?
16:11:31 [Guus]: [i will not be able to join sorry]
16:11:38 [TomB]: [ok]
16:11:48 [berrueta_]: BenA: introduction of a new attribute to declare namespaces in html (not xmlns)
16:12:05 [berrueta_]: ... @prefix
16:13:13 [berrueta_]: ... another issue, ability to import profiles specially targeted to common patterns (i.e., vocabularies)
16:13:26 [berrueta_]: ... for instance, social networks
16:13:27 [Ralph]: s/in xhtml/in HTML/
16:14:44 [berrueta_]: ... focus on browser features vs. data extracted from RDFa-documents
16:15:10 [berrueta_]: TomB: any pointers to the discussion?
16:15:21 [berrueta_]: BenA: in the XHTML WG mailing list
16:15:51 [berrueta_]: topic: Recipes
16:16:02 [berrueta_]: ACTION: Ralph to review the revised Recipes draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-swd-minutes.html#action15]
16:16:04 [berrueta_]: --continues
16:16:09 [berrueta_]: ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]
16:16:11 [berrueta_]: --continues
16:16:21 [berrueta_]: topic: RDFa metadata note
16:16:28 [berrueta_]: ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the metadata note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action03]
16:16:29 [berrueta_]: --continues
16:16:33 [berrueta_]: topic: AOB
16:16:40 [berrueta_]: ACTION: Guus to look at OWL documents for review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:16:42 [berrueta_]: --continues
16:16:47 [berrueta_]: topic: SKOS
16:17:00 [berrueta_]: ACTION: Ralph send CR transition request for SKOS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action01]
16:17:01 [berrueta_]: --done
16:17:05 [berrueta_]: CR transition request -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0017.html
16:17:14 [Ralph]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2009JanMar/0000.html "Transition Request: SKOS to Candidate Recommendation" [Ralph 2009-01-07]
16:17:34 [berrueta_]: ** SKOS primer
16:17:40 [berrueta_]: ACTION: Antoine to prepare revised draft of SKOS Primer ready for decision to publish as WD [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action04]
16:17:41 [berrueta_]: --done
16:17:45 [berrueta_]: Revised draft of SKOS Primer -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0042.html
16:18:01 [berrueta_]: TomB: propose we take a decision to publish as WD
16:18:12 [berrueta_]: Ralph: I'm ok to proceed
16:18:32 [berrueta_]: TomB: I'm the main reviewer, I'm ok with publishing
16:18:55 [berrueta_]: ... some issues may need futher discussion, maybe later in this telecon, they are non-blocking
16:18:55 [edsu]: edsu has joined #swd
16:19:25 [berrueta_]: PROPOSED to accept http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0042.html as WD
16:19:29 [Antoine]: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DraftPrimer?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SKOSPrimer-090113.html
16:19:51 [berrueta_]: PROPOSED to publish http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DraftPrimer?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SKOSPrimer-090113.html as WD
16:20:08 [Zakim]: +[LC]
16:20:14 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/primer/primer-20090113.html "Editor's Draft 13 January 2009"
16:20:26 [TomB]: zakim, LC is EdSu
16:20:26 [Zakim]: +EdSu; got it
16:20:31 [berrueta_]: PROPOSED to publish http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/primer/primer-20090113.html as WD
16:21:26 [berrueta_]: Antoine: both versions are the same
16:22:00 [berrueta_]: ... http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/primer/primer-20090113.html is the same as the wiki attachment
16:22:31 [berrueta_]: TomB: any discussion?
16:22:41 [Ralph]: +1 to publish
16:23:05 [berrueta_]: RESOLVED to publish http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/primer/primer-20090113.html as WD
16:23:15 [aliman]: nice work!
16:23:31 [berrueta_]: TomB: thanks Ed and Antoine
16:24:07 [berrueta_]: ** SKOS Impl report
16:24:19 [berrueta_]: ACTION: Guus to report on usage of SKOS in vocabularies at VU for SKOS implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action09]
16:24:22 [berrueta_]: --continues
16:24:28 [berrueta_]: ACTION: Sean to report on SKOSED for SKOS implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:24:30 [berrueta_]: --continues
16:25:13 [berrueta_]: TomB: Ralph: what's the status of our CR request?
16:25:32 [berrueta_]: Ralph: send, probably reply by this week
16:25:47 [berrueta_]: TomB: when our CR is published, we can make a call for impl
16:25:56 [berrueta_]: Ralph: it's part of the CR announcement
16:26:37 [berrueta_]: TomB: call for impl should include updated pointer to Primer
16:26:54 [berrueta_]: Ralph: I'll make sure they cross-reference each one
16:27:37 [berrueta_]: Ralph: do we have a draft of the impl report in any form?
16:27:42 [berrueta_]: TomB: none I'm aware of
16:28:09 [berrueta_]: Ralph: I would like to have a URI
16:28:17 [berrueta_]: ... but if we don't have one, that's ok
16:28:37 [Ralph]: s/a URI/have content for the URI I put in the draft Status
16:28:48 [berrueta_]: TomB: re Impl Report, I would like to talk about LCSH
16:29:23 [Ralph]: I wrote "n implementation report will be available at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/implementation-report " and that URI is currently 404
16:29:42 [berrueta_]: TomB: what the situation is about LCSH in SKOS?
16:29:44 [Ralph]: (which is OK, until we actually publish :)
16:29:54 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-minutes.html Ralph
16:30:22 [Ralph]: s/"n/"An
16:30:40 [Ralph]: s/have have/have
16:30:59 [berrueta_]: edsu: they want to have it running for an upcoming conference
16:32:31 [aliman]: I've read all the comments at http://lcsh.info -- all very constructive I thought
16:36:58 [aliman]: q+
16:38:00 [TomB]: ack aliman
16:40:02 [TomB]: ack Ralph
16:40:22 [berrueta_]: aliman: we have more than enough vocabs
16:44:00 [berrueta_]: Ralph: we have six weeks to deliver the impl report, lcsh.info may be included as an experiment if it's online at the time
16:46:54 [Ralph]: Ralph: http://lcsh.info/comments1.html">http://lcsh.info/comments1.html is now an important piece of our history :) so if and when the experimental data reappears at lcsh.info, I hope http://lcsh.info/comments1.html will also remain 'cool' :)
16:47:09 [edsu]: Ralph++
16:47:20 [berrueta_]: Antoine: we can mention LCSH in the Impl Report even if not online at that time
16:47:38 [Ralph]: [I wish I hadn't been off the 'net during that period to add my comments.]
16:48:52 [Ralph]: i/PROPOSED to accept minutes /scribenick: berrueta_
16:48:58 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-minutes.html Ralph
16:50:56 [berrueta_]: TomB: i would be nice to know who to contact in LCSH regarding statements about skos usage
16:51:49 [edsu]: Barbara Tillett is your best bet
16:53:17 [berrueta_]: TomB: re: discussion about RDF struct values, I don't see this as a blocker
16:53:37 [TomB]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0039.html
16:54:48 [berrueta_]: TomB: section on the primer about mapping/standard/ properties, three paragraphs, need more discussion
16:55:14 [berrueta_]: Antoine: I could buy your story
16:56:15 [Ralph]: i/TomB: re: discussion/Topic: mapping properties
16:56:17 [berrueta_]: JonP: the mappings aren't owned by either schema, but by the creator of the mapping
16:56:23 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-minutes.html Ralph
16:57:42 [berrueta_]: TomB: Alistair suggested to drop the paragraph, I rather think to replace it
16:58:36 [berrueta_]: ... the challenge is to articulate what the distinction is. Not sure if the current text does that
16:59:05 [Ralph]: Tom: I think we can better articulate the differentce between mapping properties and standard semantic properties
16:59:13 [Ralph]: s/entce/ence
16:59:47 [aliman]: SKOS Reference: The mapping properties skos:broadMatch, skos:narrowMatch and skos:relatedMatch are provided as a convenience, for situations where the provenance of data is known, and it is useful to be able to tell "at a glance" the difference between internal links within a concept scheme and mapping links between concept schemes.
16:59:51 [berrueta_]: JonP: better replaced than dropped
16:59:59 [aliman]: q+
17:00:47 [TomB]: ack aliman
17:01:10 [berrueta_]: TomB: the question is who feels in the position to make assortments about standard properties as opposite to mapping relationships
17:01:24 [berrueta_]: aliman: I rather say as little as possible
17:01:26 [Ralph]: [perhaps we can note that we recognize a need for standard ways to communicate provenance in the Semantic Web and when we have such mechanisms, this question of what one thesaurus provider says versus what others say about the thesaurus will become more explicit]
17:01:52 [Ralph]: s/this question/the answer to this question
17:01:58 [berrueta_]: ... there is enough in the examples in the Primer
17:02:26 [TomB]: ack Ralph
17:02:34 [Antoine]: q+
17:02:45 [berrueta_]: aliman: i think it's difficult to say more than the quotation from the SKOS Reference
17:03:55 [berrueta_]: Ralph: it's outside scope of SKOS to differenciate triples with regard to their source
17:03:59 [aliman]: +1 on what ralph says, hence SKOS Reference says: However, using the SKOS mapping properties is no substitute for the careful management of RDF graphs or the use of provenance mechanisms.
17:04:01 [TomB]: [The argument could run as follows: Ideally, we should be able
17:04:18 [edsu]: Ralph++ # well said
17:05:18 [berrueta_]: TomB: actually the text I propose says that
17:05:25 [Antoine]: +1
17:05:30 [berrueta_]: Ralph: we're both thinking in the same line
17:05:55 [berrueta_]: aliman: we don't have best practices to represent provenance. This may be a convention you may follow
17:06:02 [Antoine]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0039.html
17:06:02 [TomB]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2009Jan/0039.html
17:06:20 [Zakim]: -Ben_Adida
17:06:44 [berrueta_]: TomB: if we don't say anything about the distinction, people will wonder what the distinction is
17:07:21 [Ralph]: [ah, I see the difference Alistair points out between my thoughts and Tom's text. I'll have to think about this more. Thanks, Alistair.]
17:07:34 [berrueta_]: Antoine: I would be happy if we say sthg about mapping relations in the Primer
17:08:16 [Ralph]: [it's still out of scope for SKOS to say anything about provenance :) ]
17:08:20 [berrueta_]: TomB: propose we move the discussion to the list
17:08:38 [berrueta_]: TomB: next meeting?
17:08:53 [edsu]: thanks everyone for the useful discussion of loc.gov/lcsh/skos issues
17:09:02 [berrueta_]: ... I propose we meet next week even if a short call
17:09:22 [berrueta_]: [adjourned]
17:09:38 [Zakim]: -aliman
17:09:53 [Zakim]: -berrueta
17:10:18 [Antoine]: http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-swd-minutes.html#item04
17:11:54 [Zakim]: -Ralph
17:12:08 [Zakim]: -JonP
17:12:15 [Zakim]: -Antoine_Isaac
17:12:16 [Zakim]: -EdSu
17:12:17 [Zakim]: -TomB
17:12:17 [Zakim]: SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
17:12:18 [Zakim]: Attendees were TomB, Ralph, berrueta, Antoine_Isaac, aliman, Ben_Adida, JonP, EdSu
17:12:27 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-minutes.html Ralph
17:12:33 [Ralph]: zakim, bye
17:12:33 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #swd
17:13:11 [Ralph]: rrsagent, bye
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-actions.rdf :
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02] [1]
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc#T16-09-44
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph to review the revised Recipes draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-swd-minutes.html#action15] [2]
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc#T16-16-02
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] [3]
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc#T16-16-09
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the metadata note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action03] [4]
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc#T16-16-28
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Guus to look at OWL documents for review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10] [5]
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc#T16-16-40
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph send CR transition request for SKOS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action01] [6]
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc#T16-17-00
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Antoine to prepare revised draft of SKOS Primer ready for decision to publish as WD [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action04] [7]
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc#T16-17-40
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Guus to report on usage of SKOS in vocabularies at VU for SKOS implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action09] [8]
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc#T16-24-19
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Sean to report on SKOSED for SKOS implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-swd-minutes.html#action10] [9]
17:13:11 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-swd-irc#T16-24-28