IRC log of eo on 2009-01-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/09-eo-irc
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13:08:38 [doylesaylor]
zakim, this will be eowg
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ok, doylesaylor; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
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rrsagent, make logs public
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Scribe: Doyle
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ScribeNick: doylesaylor
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Meeting: EOWG
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13:17:31 [doylesaylor]
Chair: Shawn
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WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has now started
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+doyle
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+??P3
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+Shawn
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+Loughborough
13:28:18 [LiamMcGee]
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+ +1.512.797.aaaa
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+ +0137383aabb
13:29:26 [LiamMcGee]
Zakim, aabb is LiamMcGee
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+LiamMcGee; got it
13:29:52 [Zakim]
+??P8
13:29:54 [Sharron]
zakim, aaaa is Sharron
13:29:54 [Zakim]
+Sharron; got it
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+ +7.902.aacc
13:30:12 [andrew]
zakim, aacc is Andrew
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+Andrew; got it
13:31:02 [shawn]
zakim, who is here?
13:31:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see doyle, ??P3, Shawn, Loughborough, Sharron, LiamMcGee, ??P8, Andrew
13:31:02 [Song]
zakim,??p3 is Song
13:31:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see LiamMcGee, andrew, hbj, shawn, Zakim, RRSAgent, Sharron, doylesaylor, Song
13:31:05 [Zakim]
+Song; got it
13:31:30 [Wayne]
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13:31:31 [shawn]
zakim, ??P8 is Henny
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+Henny; got it
13:31:41 [doylesaylor]
Present: Song, Doyle, Shawn, Sharron, Helle, Andrew, William, Liam
13:32:14 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: Happy New Year
13:32:23 [doylesaylor]
Topic: WCAG 2.0 reactions
13:32:36 [Zakim]
+ +0453946aadd
13:33:14 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: Any discussion on anything new about WCAG 2 coming or ideas for follow up for January?
13:33:40 [hbj]
zakim, +0453946aadd is hbj
13:33:40 [Zakim]
+hbj; got it
13:33:47 [Zakim]
+Wayne_Dick
13:34:07 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: Welcome Wayne
13:34:19 [doylesaylor]
present+ Wayne
13:34:23 [shawn]
s/Shawn: Welcome Wayne/ /
13:35:14 [doylesaylor]
Andrew: I was looking at Australia, in Vision Australia turned up 125 at a meeting and indicates a lot of interest in Australia.
13:36:23 [doylesaylor]
Helle: I am working on the idea of workshop, with web developer who know the technology, we are thinking about doing in March.
13:36:43 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we are thinking about providing reusable materials, and looking to EO about that.
13:37:00 [shawn]
s/, we are thinking about doing in March./, we are thinking about doing something in Denmark./
13:37:31 [doylesaylor]
Wayne: Tom ? are looking at doing a speech about local guidelines in relation to WCAG 2 what to put into the local and selling web products how far away from WCAG 2 they are.
13:37:40 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: do you have paper related to that?
13:37:46 [doylesaylor]
Wayne: a while back yes.
13:38:05 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: who is planning on going to CSUN this year?
13:38:46 [doylesaylor]
Helle: I am going to Wellington in New Zealand. For ten days.
13:39:13 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: several countries are looking at adopting to WCAG 2. Any other general comments?
13:39:34 [doylesaylor]
Helle: we are waiting for feed back about the translation of WCAG 2. Or money.
13:39:48 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: that is going really well authorized translations.
13:39:55 [andrew]
s/For ten days/About standards and eLearning/
13:40:37 [doylesaylor]
Helle: we have the general idea of who is going to who we would ask to become members of the group. I am working with the standards group and working with Shadi to make a translation.
13:40:42 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: anything else?
13:41:35 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: ATAG and UAG are going good. Realistically we will have a couple of months following up on WCAG and then yes there is a lot of interest to work with ATAG and UAG and WAI ARIA.
13:42:04 [shawn]
s/UAG/UAAG/
13:42:32 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: potentital WCAG day. Input? We still have a rough idea, we want more if we do in January. More ideas from EOWG to form something doable. WCAG 2 day.
13:43:29 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we had a rough idea basically regenerating buzz. People who heard about in December and spreading the word in December. A lot we didn't do. That is the introduction. Welcome any ideas on what might work. Promoting it.
13:43:57 [doylesaylor]
Sharron: remember the global CSF reboot. Design the site. Remember?
13:44:17 [doylesaylor]
Sharron: announce a showcase what you have done to your web site using WCAG 2.
13:44:18 [shawn]
s/CSF reboot/CSS reboot/
13:44:25 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: what would that look like?
13:45:16 [doylesaylor]
Sharron: the CSF reboot was just an annoucement. I don't know if there was prize, but hundreds of sites participated from all over the world. Something in that model. A WCAG 2 reboot.
13:45:40 [shawn]
http://www.cssreboot.com/about
13:46:22 [doylesaylor]
Sharron: there was a deadline, no cash prize. They featured a lot of the sites that were redone. I was thinking about that one. I thought about that reboot. Could do globally and virtually and no real expense. Depends upon blogging. Might get people talking again.
13:47:03 [doylesaylor]
William: a boiler plate email, to all the members, corporations. A version of the testimonial to the W3C member page.
13:47:42 [doylesaylor]
Wayne: I like the idea of a reboot. We wouldn't want to be too big a part of the site. see if they start WCAG 1 or 508 would work nicely.
13:48:59 [shawn]
q+ to ask how long you need to give people
13:49:03 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: I am looking at the reboot page. They set up a page where they link to these sites. With votes and comments for each. If we did something would we publish a list of sites? What would be the challenges? Accessible but missed something. Do with limiting our maintenance? Or time commitment.
13:49:53 [doylesaylor]
Sharron: a volunteer group of peopl.e to monitor and maintain. Would have to submit during the candidate recommendation a good place to start. A commentary maybe voting. More monitored by the community than W3C.
13:50:00 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: good point.
13:50:09 [shawn]
ack me
13:50:09 [Zakim]
shawn, you wanted to ask how long you need to give people
13:50:35 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: Another question what is your feeling to announce in January to redesign by X how long would X need to be?
13:50:48 [doylesaylor]
William: hopefully realistically?
13:51:13 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: realistically. We want them to succeed. Liam? Sites you work with, how long realistically take?
13:51:32 [doylesaylor]
Liam: already meet WCAG 1 AA and AAA not very long.
13:52:15 [doylesaylor]
Liam: only thing in time, measuring the readability. That is more time consuming. That is a long track to follow on that. Look up literacy levels. To measure in some automated way.
13:52:56 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: what about some organizations would be hesitant to make a big declaration to meet WCAG 2 being unsure to meet and don't want to be criticized?
13:53:07 [doylesaylor]
Liam: trying to meet?
13:53:22 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we are working really hard a commitment to do a really good job.
13:53:36 [doylesaylor]
Liam: a commitment to notice what you missed and put right if you can.
13:54:26 [doylesaylor]
Wayne: the reboot restart, there was not any thing for months. Announce in January and follow up in four months. Send out a really intensive mailer. Evaluate then a lot of sites.
13:54:49 [doylesaylor]
Sharron: go by the votes. Give the community the feedback instead of W3C.
13:55:05 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: they only have 23 sites for the CSF reboot.
13:55:32 [shawn]
s/ CSF reboot/ CSS reboot/
13:55:38 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: if they only have 23 sites.??? Something like this we would need commitments from popular people to make this work.
13:56:19 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: Good ideas any other thoughts on something like this?
13:56:37 [doylesaylor]
Liam: we are proposing in the WCAG site?
13:57:00 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we need to be careful about doing this. My first reaction but not sure we want to maintain this.
13:58:40 [doylesaylor]
Liam: I am thinking of use the power to the relevance toward this. WCAG reboot links to ...from the commercial point of view, if we want to be known for web accessible. Releasing a site according to standards. If we know we get recognition worth getting more. Otherwise another industry award. But promoting by W3C is more important.
13:58:51 [doylesaylor]
Wayne: that would be true.
14:00:04 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we have talked about this type thing for years. Specifically related to WCAG 2 we spent a lot of time, like Sharron, but dozens who evaluated sites for WCAG 2 candidate recommendation, hours and hours, most of the sites had things needing fixing. We are small staff. Too many things to do like ATAG promotion.
14:01:24 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: I am thinking it would be nice to do. A lis of sites or gallery of sites to showcase. But don't have time to evalujate. If we could manage so it is clear to not approve the sites. Instead this is a community working together. When we try we haven't succeeded. I want to relook at again.
14:02:43 [doylesaylor]
Liam: a tool for the community to go through the site and meet and fail. The community can say it is ok. Dated conforms. Seems to be all right. Rather nice to I am really fed up with this site that is not really accessible. A place where the community can do that, but supported by the W3C. Not trivial thing to do.
14:02:49 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we would need time too.
14:04:04 [doylesaylor]
Sharron: when you mention the candidate recommendation and we could comment on there was a evaluation tool to record and compare the results. People could demonnstrate how they self reporting. This common reporting tool. The guidelines in the same sort of rubric. Pretty helpful. Organzing your feedback.
14:05:06 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we have no ownership, we are happy to share what we do. Not robust enough for broad use though. Known issues, with small batch. We had planned to do. Something we thought of making more broadly useful. Put something out there and let someone polish up.
14:05:21 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: no shortage of ideas, shortage of time.
14:06:07 [doylesaylor]
Wayne: we have a pretty good protocal in terms of the Illinois test site, in half hour you can do 95% completed. They sent something out to the group you won't have someone say you are really gros.
14:07:04 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: thanks for the thinking on that. I will see if anything gels. Come back next week if we have more ideas. What other ideas about WCAG 2 day or other promotion in January day. Or turn off your style sheet.
14:07:12 [doylesaylor]
Liam: talk like a pirate day?
14:07:33 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: if did something tied to a day in January what would it be, how would work?
14:08:04 [doylesaylor]
Liam: a 24 hour code-a-thon. Rewrite their web sites in the day. With input from the W3C staff. Might be fun.
14:08:28 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we would provide support call in number or chat. Encourage people locally and set up a room and network?
14:08:38 [andrew]
s/Or turn off your style sheet/Like 'blue beany' or 'turn off your style sheet' days
14:08:54 [doylesaylor]
Liam: name a time and place. The part of the problem getting the word quickly. When in January?
14:09:33 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we are open. Early or last week. In Vienna they have a monthly meeting of some group. They are having a WCAG2 party on the 13th.
14:09:43 [doylesaylor]
Liam: we had something in Switzerland.
14:09:56 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: a code-a-thon is one idea.
14:10:05 [doylesaylor]
Wayne: how does that work?
14:10:12 [shawn]
s/the 13th./15 Jan/
14:10:45 [doylesaylor]
Liam: dividing people in a chat room. In that period, to work on that period, 12 hour or 24 do you get there or how close after you start off.
14:11:02 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: with x amount of work I would get so this far. I'd like to have more data on.
14:11:33 [doylesaylor]
Liam: WCAG staff and hangars on a possible thing to do.
14:11:49 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: that is good thing, from various discussions the most reasonable.
14:12:28 [doylesaylor]
Liam: if you can record what is going. A moderated forum place. To questions. A great big record. Throws up ambiguities, and can be addressed then.
14:12:42 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we could try to do. Monthly for four hours.
14:13:07 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: threaded is interesting. In terms of practicalities of blog or email.
14:13:31 [doylesaylor]
Liam: Google email works pretty. blog can be tricky. Quite hard to make work.
14:13:50 [doylesaylor]
Liam: email is ok. I would get a lot of samples of CSS groups.
14:14:26 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: chat rooms would be great for people who use. But hard to follow. Three conversations is there a way to differenciate well?
14:14:53 [doylesaylor]
Liam: in an ecommerce site, what sort of numbers are we expecting?
14:15:04 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: if we could have hundreds.
14:15:12 [doylesaylor]
Liam: not too bad at all.
14:15:34 [doylesaylor]
Liam: done on a regular basis you might build up those numbers. Not though in this January.
14:16:16 [doylesaylor]
Wayne: we could get fifteen from our system. 15 people contributing from our system. Working on their site. A number of people who can answer questions. We could talk up next week.
14:16:28 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: 12 through 15th?
14:16:39 [doylesaylor]
Wayne: yes a lot of motivated people also.
14:16:44 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: any other ideas?
14:17:00 [doylesaylor]
Liam: run as a google group.
14:17:04 [doylesaylor]
Wayne: yes.
14:17:38 [doylesaylor]
Liam: are we keeping track of various bits of media out there usefully straight to keep track of.
14:18:04 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we have an internal list. Not a public list. What are your thoughts say more about that?
14:18:30 [shawn]
zakim, mute Song
14:18:30 [Zakim]
Song should now be muted
14:19:14 [doylesaylor]
Liam: if you have media pieces more than puff pieces like technical piece, frequently asked, we should link to those. Make sure they get the publibicity.
14:19:32 [LiamMcGee]
[clarification] I was thinking in terms of a Google Groups Developers Forum e.g. http://groups.google.com/group/google-checkout-developers-forum
14:19:42 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: ok, other ideas?
14:19:55 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: anything else?
14:20:15 [doylesaylor]
Liam: any scope in allowing people automated alerts for the documentation?
14:21:05 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: understanding the techniques? We will do a reasonable we said. We would send to the RSS feed. Given fairly low traffic list. We started to do with WCAG 2 but didn't really make sense.
14:21:15 [doylesaylor]
Liam: an email telling me about what is updated.
14:22:16 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we thought about doing announcement, but would duplicate RSS and we think now it would be updated once a year. When we update, do the usually announcement channels and W3C newsletters, etc. and a list of being updated.
14:22:30 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: have a way to add a comment as you look at?
14:22:46 [doylesaylor]
Liam: I am trying to think user centered. What is missing here and they need it.
14:23:10 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: actually Liam would you submit as a suggestion?
14:23:15 [doylesaylor]
Liam: yes in what way?
14:23:24 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: WCAG 2 public comments.
14:23:35 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: make comments right there.
14:23:41 [doylesaylor]
Liam: yes.
14:24:00 [shawn]
<http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/comments/Overview.html>
14:24:01 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: How easy it is to find in the site. So...
14:24:06 [andrew]
public-comments-wcag20@w3.org
14:24:51 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: there is the online comment form which makes you comment on a specific document. If you put in Liam I will watch for and flag it. Good idea.
14:24:57 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: anything else?
14:25:56 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: we will work on over the next week. Any dates would be good. Towards the end of January and please send to the list or to me. Thank you for all the thoughts. Check on the general comments for the discussion?
14:26:05 [doylesaylor]
Shawn: all right we done.
14:26:07 [Zakim]
-Loughborough
14:26:10 [Zakim]
-Sharron
14:26:13 [Zakim]
-Henny
14:26:15 [Zakim]
-hbj
14:26:16 [Zakim]
-doyle
14:26:29 [doylesaylor]
Regrets: Anna, LisaP
14:26:59 [Zakim]
-Andrew
14:27:00 [doylesaylor]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:27:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/09-eo-minutes.html doylesaylor
14:27:01 [Zakim]
-LiamMcGee
14:27:02 [Zakim]
-Shawn
14:27:10 [Zakim]
-Wayne_Dick
14:28:28 [Zakim]
-Song
14:28:29 [Zakim]
WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended
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Attendees were doyle, Shawn, Loughborough, +1.512.797.aaaa, +0137383aabb, LiamMcGee, Sharron, +7.902.aacc, Andrew, Song, Henny, hbj, Wayne_Dick
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