IRC log of svg on 2009-01-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:29:59 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:29:59 [RRSAgent]
logging to
19:30:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:30:01 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
19:30:03 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:30:03 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30PM scheduled to start now
19:30:04 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:30:04 [trackbot]
Date: 08 January 2009
19:30:33 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()2:30PM has now started
19:30:35 [Zakim]
19:32:08 [Zakim]
19:32:31 [Zakim]
19:32:34 [ed]
Zakim, ??P5 is me
19:32:34 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
19:32:50 [Zakim]
19:33:01 [heycam]
Zakim, +[ is me
19:33:01 [Zakim]
sorry, heycam, I do not recognize a party named '+['
19:33:05 [heycam]
Zakim, [
19:33:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand '[', heycam
19:33:06 [heycam]
Zakim, [ is me
19:33:06 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
19:33:13 [Zakim]
19:33:28 [Zakim]
19:33:34 [Zakim]
19:33:54 [Zakim]
19:33:57 [Zakim]
19:34:00 [Zakim]
19:34:10 [Zakim]
+ +39.524.9.aaaa
19:34:13 [Zakim]
19:34:38 [ed]
Zakim, ??P5 is me
19:34:38 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
19:35:01 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
19:35:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shepazu, heycam, ed, +39.524.9.aaaa
19:35:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed, trackbot, heycam, anthony, shepazu, ed_work
19:35:12 [ChrisL]
zakim, +39 is me
19:35:12 [Zakim]
+ChrisL; got it
19:36:01 [ed]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:36:01 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ed
19:36:08 [ed]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:36:08 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ed
19:36:12 [ed]
Zakim, pick a victim
19:36:12 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
19:36:28 [ChrisL]
zakim, good doggie
19:36:28 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'good doggie', ChrisL
19:37:00 [ed]
19:37:30 [ed]
Chair: ED
19:37:43 [ed]
Scribe: shepazu
19:37:49 [ed]
Scribenick: shepazu
19:39:16 [shepazu]
Topic: Agenda for Sydney F2F
19:40:11 [shepazu]
ed: several possible topics...
19:40:39 [shepazu]
... errata, filters, layout, compositing, modules, next version of the spec...
19:40:50 [shepazu]
... what's happening with Print spec?
19:41:11 [shepazu]
ChrisL: Print spec is suffering from lack of implementations...
19:41:26 [shepazu]
.. open source folks are interested in the color profiles
19:41:44 [shepazu]
ed: how can we speed up the process?
19:42:19 [shepazu]
ChrisL: I've talked to folks from Scribus and Inkscape, but they are worried about the spec changing under them
19:42:44 [shepazu]
... they got burned before with the textflow stuff we changed to please to the browser vendors
19:43:05 [shepazu]
ed: what phase is it in?
19:43:09 [shepazu]
ChrisL: LC
19:43:34 [shepazu]
shepazu: let's move it to CR
19:43:37 [ChrisL]
ended Feb 2008. Next step is CR
19:43:46 [shepazu]
ed: yes, we'll add that to the agenda
19:50:09 [shepazu]
ed: any other topics?
19:50:26 [shepazu]
heycam: I'm going to try to write up some layout stuff to discuss concretely
19:50:56 [shepazu]
ed: do we need to publish more tests for SVG Tiny 1.2?
19:51:24 [shepazu]
heycam: good question, I've been looking at bugs and we do need to make some fixes to the test suite
19:52:22 [Zakim]
19:53:19 [ed__]
ed__ has joined #svg
19:53:33 [Zakim]
19:53:37 [shepazu]
shepazu: we do need more tests, but maybe new implementers can help contribute tests
19:53:41 [ed__]
s/do we need to publish more tests for SVG Tiny 1.2?/do we need to publish another snapshot of (more tests) of the SVG Tiny 1.2 testsuite anytime soon?/
19:54:32 [ed__]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
19:54:32 [Zakim]
+ed__; got it
19:56:08 [shepazu]
shepazu: I think we need to put a priority on 2.5D and other things that we are coordinating with the CSS WG on
19:57:17 [shepazu]
ChrisL: some of the CSS proposals have been checked into CVS
19:57:43 [shepazu]
... Bjoern has remarked that they are underspecified
20:00:18 [shepazu]
ed__: I will put those agenda items on the wiki page
20:00:51 [ed]
ed has joined #svg
20:00:53 [shepazu]
Topic: ISSUE-2181
20:00:59 [ChrisL]
20:00:59 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2181 -- Look at Solutions for 'filter' Property Conflict with IE Filters -- OPEN
20:00:59 [trackbot]
20:01:08 [Zakim]
20:01:25 [shepazu]
ed__: I couldn't find WG discussion about this
20:01:46 [shepazu]
ChrisL: there was discussion on the public lists about this
20:02:34 [shepazu]
[chris summarizes public discussions]
20:02:54 [Zakim]
20:03:22 [ed__]
ed__ has joined #svg
20:03:41 [Zakim]
20:03:51 [ed__]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
20:03:51 [Zakim]
+ed__; got it
20:04:17 [heycam]
20:06:16 [shepazu]
20:06:22 [shepazu]
20:08:26 [shepazu]
ed_work: we should coordinate with CSS and HCG on this
20:08:38 [shepazu]
shepazu: and the HTML WG
20:09:13 [ed__]
20:09:16 [shepazu]
heycam: IE is making changes in IE8, we should look at that
20:09:26 [shepazu]
ed_work: they are now supporting -ms-filter, too, so that's a step in the right direction
20:10:07 [shepazu]
me @ChrisL: can you rejoin?
20:10:30 [ed__] = "foobar"
20:11:32 [ed__]
some people "detect IE" by checking if is defined
20:12:45 [shepazu]
shepazu: let's talk about this at the f2f
20:12:57 [Zakim]
+ +95249aabb
20:14:54 [shepazu]
ChrisL: my suggestion is that we find out what hackers are doing when using that hack, and give them a better way to do it
20:16:53 [shepazu]
ChrisL: this is not something that happens in a stylesheet, it's a test in script
20:17:59 [ChrisL]
its used to do opacity, and transparency in PNG images. Its only for old versions of IE, too - IE7 and up do PNG correctly
20:18:00 [shepazu]
... and otherwise just hide the filters test when it's only a test
20:19:16 [shepazu]
ed_work: I think your proposal is the best way forward
20:19:18 [shepazu]
... and we could push IE to drop the proprietary filter thing
20:19:25 [shepazu]
Topic: SVG 1.1 Errata
20:20:36 [heycam]
20:21:30 [ed__]
20:22:10 [shepazu]
I need to finish all those actions
20:22:34 [shepazu]
ed__: we should set aside time to finish this up at the F2F
20:23:07 [shepazu]
... and publish the errata and SVG1.1 2nd edition
20:23:45 [shepazu]
... it would be nice to have all the errata done before then
20:24:09 [shepazu]
... it would require new tests
20:24:13 [shepazu]
... is that too optimistic
20:24:16 [shepazu]
20:24:38 [shepazu]
ChrisL: we've been going through them quickly
20:26:15 [shepazu]
ed__: we could triage them and do some of them in the next version of the spec
20:26:54 [shepazu]
ChrisL: it would be useful to have a 2nd ed, especially where it brings it into line with SVG 1.2
20:27:23 [shepazu]
Topic: SVG Tiny 1.2
20:27:35 [shepazu]
Topic: SVG Tiny 1.2 Errata
20:30:37 [shepazu]
ChrisL: going forward, we should just be use the same syntax for all lists: optional comma, optional space
20:30:52 [shepazu]
shepazu: heycam and I had come to a similar conclusion
20:31:08 [shepazu]
ChrisL: I noted that you wanted to make exception for URIs
20:31:22 [shepazu]
... since they can have commas in them
20:31:29 [shepazu]
... but they can also have spaces
20:31:49 [shepazu]
... so a better solution is simply to require that spaces and commas be escaped
20:32:07 [shepazu]
ed__: should we make this an errata item?
20:32:53 [ed__]
s/errata item?/errata item for SVG 1.1?/
20:33:27 [shepazu]
shepazu: we would be changing conformance criteria for SVG 1.1 UAs?
20:33:46 [shepazu]
ChrisL: yes, but older content would still be conforming
20:36:23 [shepazu]
shepazu: and ASV is less relevant now...
20:36:30 [shepazu]
ChrisL: and has been for some time
20:37:44 [shepazu]
heycam: so this affects the 1.2 errata... it should now say any combination of comma or whitespace
20:38:22 [ChrisL]
s/they can also have/IRIs can also have/
20:39:25 [shepazu]
shepazu: what about viewBox?
20:40:28 [shepazu]
heycam: in the DOM, it's exposed as an animated rect, but in the spec it's a list of numbers, and that it has to have 4 members
20:40:45 [shepazu]
... so it's not an arbitrary list of values
20:41:02 [shepazu]
shepazu: that's also the case for transforms
20:43:12 [ed__]
Proposed resolution: for 1.2T the 'g1', 'g2' and 'glyphname' attributes can be comma-whitespace separated
20:44:49 [shepazu]
heycam: how about using "list of xml names"?
20:45:07 [shepazu]
ChrisL: that wouldn't allow a digit at the beginning
20:45:20 [shepazu]
ed__: list of strings?
20:45:40 [ed__]
for the 'u1' attribute : Comma is the separator character; thus, to kern a comma, specify the comma as part of a range of Unicode characters or as a glyph name using the 'g1' attribute.
20:47:43 [shepazu]
shepazu: but uDOM is typed, which list of string doesn't give us
20:48:44 [heycam]
heycam: we state explicitly in the udom appendix what types different xml attributes are exposed as, so changing the attribute list syntax in use shouldn't affect that
20:48:58 [heycam]
s/in use/in use by a particular attribute/
20:50:00 [heycam]
20:50:04 [shepazu]
shepazu: I'd like to check that this is okay with SVG 1.1 implementers
20:50:33 [shepazu]
heycam: we could start by compiling a list of affected attributes
20:50:40 [shepazu]
ChrisL: agreed
20:57:32 [shepazu]
shepazu: smil semicolon-separated values are essentially lists of lists; that could be a datatype
21:00:12 [shepazu]
we will propose changing values in SVG 1.1 to use a uniform list style, research what changes this would entail, and get feedback from SVG 1.1 implementers
21:02:02 [shepazu]
Resolution: we will propose changing values in SVG 1.1 to use a uniform list style, research what changes this would entail, and get feedback from SVG 1.1 implementers
21:03:07 [Zakim]
- +95249aabb
21:03:08 [Zakim]
21:03:09 [Zakim]
21:03:16 [shepazu]
trackbot, end telcon
21:03:16 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
21:03:16 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Shepazu, ChrisL, ed, [IPcaller], heycam, Shepazu.a, +39.524.9.aaaa, ed__, +95249aabb
21:03:17 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:03:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
21:03:18 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
21:03:18 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items